terrancew_hod Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 He asked why the Mac Pro was the least sold, even though it's the most bang for the buck. It's still a $2000 computer. The point is you can get a Dell (or Psystar, in this scenario) for $400. Grandma can surf the net the same way on her $400 psystar as she could on the Mac Pro, so is it really more value to her to buy Mac Pro? If grandma can't recover her system after a update bricking her system or the hard drive crashing, then she needs support of some kind. The $600 psystar system will leave her high and dry, unless she pays another $50 + shipping to have Psystar fixing it. Grandma probably needs to pull out her calculator and add up the total cost of this machine; she'll quickly find that in buying the psystar machine, she didn't add in the opportunity cost lost from any maintenance issues. If she wanted to use OSX, she's probably better off just getting the mac and saving herself the headache. She get an amount of limited software/hardware support and she has the option of buying 3 more years of support... and Apple will actually take her call and won't send her away from the Genius Bar. I want to be there the first time someone tries to bring their OpenPC into the apple store and watch the people laugh. Oops! I used to build computers for friends but started directing them to companies that offered support because I couldn't support them constantly, especially after ruining their systems with spyware and viruses. And that's with running Windows XP where you could just put the OS disk in and install. You didn't have to do special tricks to get the system working. These are people that couldn't keep their virus programs up to date and ran any exe that showed up in their inbox. I've looked at comments at various sites and it amazes me that anyone would buy one of these things without doing their homework. I just think it's going to be funny when one of these owners mess of their machine and find they will have to ship whole computer back (if they can't figure out how to unplug the hard drive) so Psystar will have to reinstall the system. Also it will be interesting to see people wanting this cheap "mac" and don't order the preinstallation... will they be in for a surprise when they try to put the Leopard disk in and the PC won't read it. I can imagine a bunch of people owning $400-600 paperweights. I know being able to have a cheaper mac sounds great, but you have to weigh how you will take care of it. Thus I doubt grandma won't be too satified with this purchase. I made myself a Hackintosh using a Vanilla install (and a Corecrib years before that), and I know someone without the technical savvy could be able to maintain the machine. My Corecrib installed the mac os without a hitch (aside from connecting the G4 motherboard to the PC case), but my hackintosh needed tweaks to get it working near perfectly... but I think I'm preaching to the choir on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prototype_sx Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 But can we believe that Apple never know about x86 project ? so why it never did anythings yet about that? I think it is the time to Apple to make upgradable mac mini and other devices (hope they do so) Just posting that I found the case that they use on newegg (I like it and been SEARCHING but found it when I wasnt looking). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811173014 I hope they go down as well though, cause this kind of attention they bringing to the osx86 scene can mean bad news not just for them but for us too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaporATX Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I lost interest in this matter (whether it should be possible to install OS X on any computer) a long time ago, but I used to say in the past that Apple could sell OS X bundled with a motherboard, at a premium price, with a list of compatible hardware and with a strong warning about issues which might arise.It wouldn't bring less money than the Mini, after all. I like that idea. They'd be getting back to their early roots of supporting the hobbyist community. Sell it for $666.66. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxintosh Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 He asked why the Mac Pro was the least sold No, you said it was overkill for most people, and while that may be true it has no bearing on anything here. We could all be driving around in horse and buggies and be saving hundreds of thousands of lives a year while doing it, but we don't for a reason. The market is set up in segments and each segment differs from the next. How many are sold in each segment is irrelevant. Apple sells a lot of Mac Pros. Sure not as many as Mac minis or laptops but again that is irrelevant. The Mac pro is the high end of high end. It contributes (partially) to Apples image. If they made just low end equipment then they would be perceived as a low end company. This is why companies like Ford will spend millions developing limited edition cars like its GT. It's not always about just plain sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP User Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 He asked why the Mac Pro was the least sold, even though it's the most bang for the buck. It's still a $2000 computer. The point is you can get a Dell (or Psystar, in this scenario) for $400. Grandma can surf the net the same way on her $400 psystar as she could on the Mac Pro, so is it really more value to her to buy Mac Pro? With that scenario, you almost invalidate the point of psystar. A mini is what?? 199 more... Grandma can surf on a real mac with real support for 199 more. Oops, my bad. $45 more because OS X runs $155 from psystar. Psytars advantage is the PCI slots. Otherwise there is no real benefit to the psystar over apple labeled product when you add support and every other benefit into the mix. SO if we can all stop saying a $400 computer for the purposes of this thread, psystar is offering a $555.00 computer (This is an OS X thread right???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 No, you said it was overkill for most people, and while that may be true it has no bearing on anything here. We could all be driving around in horse and buggies and be saving hundreds of thousands of lives a year while doing it, but we don't for a reason. The market is set up in segments and each segment differs from the next. How many are sold in each segment is irrelevant. Apple sells a lot of Mac Pros. Sure not as many as Mac minis or laptops but again that is irrelevant. The Mac pro is the high end of high end. It contributes (partially) to Apples image. If they made just low end equipment then they would be perceived as a low end company. This is why companies like Ford will spend millions developing limited edition cars like its GT. It's not always about just plain sales Exactly! That makes a lot of sense. Apple manufactures the Mac Pro (mainly) for the image. Even if they don't earn a lot by selling it. But if you start adding extras (which probably most buyers do), they make a nice profit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Loe Kee Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 If grandma can't recover her system after a update bricking her system or the hard drive crashing, then she needs support of some kind. The $600 psystar system will leave her high and dry, unless she pays another $50 + shipping to have Psystar fixing it. Grandma probably needs to pull out her calculator and add up the total cost of this machine; she'll quickly find that in buying the psystar machine, she didn't add in the opportunity cost lost from any maintenance issues. If she wanted to use OSX, she's probably better off just getting the mac and saving herself the headache. She get an amount of limited software/hardware support and she has the option of buying 3 more years of support... and Apple will actually take her call and won't send her away from the Genius Bar. I want to be there the first time someone tries to bring their OpenPC into the apple store and watch the people laugh. Oops! I used to build computers for friends but started directing them to companies that offered support because I couldn't support them constantly, especially after ruining their systems with spyware and viruses. And that's with running Windows XP where you could just put the OS disk in and install. You didn't have to do special tricks to get the system working. These are people that couldn't keep their virus programs up to date and ran any exe that showed up in their inbox. I've looked at comments at various sites and it amazes me that anyone would buy one of these things without doing their homework. I just think it's going to be funny when one of these owners mess of their machine and find they will have to ship whole computer back (if they can't figure out how to unplug the hard drive) so Psystar will have to reinstall the system. Also it will be interesting to see people wanting this cheap "mac" and don't order the preinstallation... will they be in for a surprise when they try to put the Leopard disk in and the PC won't read it. I can imagine a bunch of people owning $400-600 paperweights. I know being able to have a cheaper mac sounds great, but you have to weigh how you will take care of it. Thus I doubt grandma won't be too satified with this purchase. I made myself a Hackintosh using a Vanilla install (and a Corecrib years before that), and I know someone without the technical savvy could be able to maintain the machine. My Corecrib installed the mac os without a hitch (aside from connecting the G4 motherboard to the PC case), but my hackintosh needed tweaks to get it working near perfectly... but I think I'm preaching to the choir on this. i build my own computers and my friends are always callin' me to fix their pc's. i see my knowledge of pc's as "standard everyday knowledge" not "i can fix your pc". when my pc crashes and i can't get it workin' usin' google or reinstallin' windows, then i take it to a pc repair shop just like everybody else. but, i try to help them and i rarely ever fix their pc's. and they still continue to call for "free support" (i should start chargin' them a "small fee", $5, $20...). yea, i don't see why ppl don't do their homework. it is soooooo easy to google for reviews and see if it is worth it or not, that's how i chose the parts for my next pc upgrade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxintosh Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 The Japanese don't really have high regards for Apple computers, because it's assembled in China The more I learn about china, the more I'm apt to agree with the Japanese. Why can't Apple find another place to do business with? It can't be based all on price because I'm sure other countries would be competitive in that area. If Apple comes out with a new Mac mini, a tablet, or a desktop model that's between the mini and the Mac Pro, I will be buying one almost immediately, but I sure do wish it was being built anyplace else other than china Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superhai Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 This is maybe another discussion, but China has also built up a better infrastructure. But I am sure that Apple are using plants in more than just China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLiDE FTW!!1 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I don't think you guys really read the thread, just specifically my post. Someone said the Mac Pro is the most bang-for-the-buck Apple computer, which means most "value". And I replied stating while that may hold true to power-users, someone who just surfs the net or does simple word processing (We'll say a low-ball figure of 75%. And since 75% = Vast majority) a Mac Pro is over kill, in terms of "value". And since a MacMini or equivalent proves to serve more "value" to these web-surfing-word-processing end users over the $3000 Mac Pro, it would be considered overkill to spend the extra $2400. Get it? Good. While the Psystar computer doesn't hold true value to non-tech-savvy people who needs someone to hold their hand while re-installing OS X (grandma), it's more valuable than a MacMini (or an iMac) to people who are relatively tech-savvy and can go on a website (such as IM) to find solutions, if any. I agree that Psystar is in the wrong by offering the works of our community for a charge, not directly supporting our community, and sending customers to IM for support - but it IS helpful for people who would like a pre-built solution and has a reasonable idea of what the OSX86 project is about. No, you said it was overkill for most people, and while that may be true it has no bearing on anything here. We could all be driving around in horse and buggies and be saving hundreds of thousands of lives a year while doing it, but we don't for a reason.Terrible example, btw -- in your logic, everyone should be driving a Porsche. The point is, there's more valuable (there's that word again) options between the extremes of horse and buggy and Porsche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeavasile Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 ...I was speakin' about Japan, 'cause Japan's so-called "economy failure" state a lot about the world's trends and predictions... "Made in Japan" is a well-known label but it's no longer so competitive in the recent digital era. And I was wondering why... (I'm a "made in Japan" guy) The Newsweek provided me some answers... Answers that seems to apply to Apple's issue... The secret lies in the "modular" products, made up of existing products that "ppl mix and match in an innovative way". The Japanese tend to exel at "integral" products like cars, things with components designed from scratch... I was speakin' about Apple's single-minded vision. But since the Japanese still have nigthtmairs they haven't invented the iPod, I think Apple won't follow "Japan's failure"... This is why I think Apple shall sell osx for some pc hardware configs... Since the beginnings of the time MS tells ppl "computers are for everybody", but we all know other way... We know computers no matter "how easy" they are, they're still "the matter of a few"... and the perfect os hasn't (yet) been invented! We can appreciate what is worth it and what isn't... We can appreciate how much is enough (for the money we pay). I don't think osx issue it's about grandma's computer... seriously! She'll use the iPhone v.6 pretty soon... Hit me if I'm wrong (My grandma doesn't know to use the computer, but she gives her best... And so does my father... If your grandmas and parents are power users, I salute them all !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxintosh Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 everyone should be driving a Porsche. Sounds good to me, although from what I've seen most Americans couldn't fit into one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeavasile Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Sounds good to me, although from what I've seen most Americans couldn't fit into one Couldn't say it better myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLiDE FTW!!1 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Sounds good to me, although from what I've seen most Americans couldn't fit into one lmfao, oh America, you so fat. It would be nice, one could only dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superhai Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 This thread is really getting out of proportions (sic!). Anyway, why would a computer-savvy person buy from psystar? And why would a non-savvy person buy there? I don't think either is interested. If you know computers you could make your own build, if you don't you would be better off with a mac if you want os x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeavasile Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 This thread is really getting out of proportions (sic!). Anyway, why would a computer-savvy person buy from psystar? And why would a non-savvy person buy there? I don't think either is interested. If you know computers you could make your own build, if you don't you would be better off with a mac if you want os x. Sorry to say it again but is this really strictly a Paystar case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prototype_sx Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 I would buy the hardware from psystar and install myself as at newegg the parts cost more than $399 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticus C* Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 why people refer to china as a cheap a$$ country? i m not chinese but dont think it is china that makes exteremely cheap quality products/parts? it is the demand from the big guys, who wants the most output with least investment... sounds familiar? capitalism?... usa's middle class is dying, not bcoz of china, but bcoz of people's demand for cheapest products, and their desire to maximize profits... majority of the big companies are getting their r&d pretty much in their own country/labs. and send it to mass production in far east... but china or other countries are not making things cheap, people who demand production in there set their standards and quality... do you think apple is demanding best quality production? well wheter you believe or not, they just deman best quality finish but not long lasting realy, not anymore, look at ipods and others? how many of you had to buy a shield cover big bada boom stuffs from day one, bcoz their toys gets scratched? or broken? esp, apple is in the boom, and they dont want people to stop buying while their momentum is high right now... their so called secrets b4 each meeting for devs or techs is just to keep people from knowing their brand new product will recieve an update, at the same price u just paid only 1 months ago, or so, or if u wanna update to newest, u ll have to pay nice sum of $$$... is apple wrong? no it s the result of capitalism... psystar, on the other hand is not different opportunist, same results grew from the greedy capitalistic system :)is capitalism bad? well it is like a car-driver situation, it works as how you drive it... cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badeavasile Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 I don't wanna be hasty, but you speak like you lived in communism... Well, I did! I doubt capitalism is ok as as doubt communism was... But this is certainly out of the topic... pls read my back posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeongx Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 COMMUNISM FTW!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Sounds good to me, although from what I've seen most Americans couldn't fit into one Maybe cars should come in different sizes, like shoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cro Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 just because i'm a {censored} and like to get a rise out of some people, especially when we all know that what they are doing is wrong, i decided to contact psystar with the following email: Ok, I have been looking into getting an apple computer now for a little while. How legitimate is this computer you are actually selling as a mac clone?? How stable are these machines?? If these are mac clones then why is there patching involved? Will I be able to get support from apple and not be bothered by legalities? Will I be able to update my software from apple with out any problems? Are you legally allowed to be associating yourself with the OSx86 project group? Are you providing technical support or are you shipping customers off to the OSx86 project group, and if the later of the 2 are you paying these people for their time, knowledge and support of your customers? Did you pay the people at the OSx86 Project to use their work to sell your project? Did you steal the work from the people in the OSx86 project? Yes, it would be very nice to have lower priced, higher performance machine that does run leopard natively, but… at the same time, if what I think is happening here is true, then I think that someone should set you straight. Its not fair that you are making a profit on a large group of people’s work, especially with out prior knowledge, nor consent from them. You might want to rethink your business plan and go about doing things the right way. Sincerely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxintosh Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 dont think it is china that makes exteremely cheap quality products/parts? Yeah they just make poisonous pet food that kills our pets, and dangerous lead ridden toys for our children again and again. It's so wierd how all of that could have "slipped through" their quality control departments Maybe cars should come in different sizes, like shoes Not sure I'm ready to see an extra-extra-large Corvette with truck suspension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prototype_sx Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Yeah they just make poisonous pet food that kills our pets, and dangerous lead ridden toys for our children again and again. It's so wierd how all of that could have "slipped through" their quality control departments Not sure I'm ready to see an extra-extra-large Corvette with truck suspension They make what there is demand for and I doubt they aim to kill pets and children. You talk about their quality control and that they make lead ridden toys for your kids? Tell me, is a Chineyman you buy it from or from Walmart or ToyRUs? You guys need to take responsibility for your hand in things, its never one person to be blamed. What happen to US quality control? How come killer pet food and lead ridden toys get through to reach your kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~pcwiz Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Hey, has anyone noticed that Psystar has started advertising their Open computer through Google AdWords? Take a look at what the ads contained on my OSx86 search engine: See the ad circled in red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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