The high price of Apple computers

[~pcwiz]

Back on topic plz

[TheSlugbait]

I know this is my first post et al, however reading through these posts and people seeming to want actual proven facts, figures info showing how a pc vs mac equivalent is x y and z with a million and one other things inbetween.

 

Just to clear a few things, yes Europe is being ripped off by a good 15% over the board for Apple products. An Mac mini can not be beaten price to price with a similar small form factor pc.

 

However every other apple related hardware can be beaten to the ground (if you know where to look) for price to hardware comparison and that is also using good quality branded products.

 

As the laptop seem to never be looked at, I will for now start with just the MacBooks, all of them and give examples of equal specs and similar quality and it will be cheaper (on the 13.3" MacBooks its only marginal however on the larger Pro's there is a significant difference.)

 

All PC specs will not include an OS, as pretty much anyone who is planning to do this would have a copy of either a Windows (whatever) and OSX (whatever).

 

Also all prices will be in US Dollars to make it easier:

 

 

 

MacBook - $1249

• 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
  
• 1GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512MB
  
• 160gb Serial ATA @ 5400
  
• Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
  
• AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth
  

Asus S37-BT - $1165

• Intel T7250 2.0GHZ 2m 800FSB
  
• 1024mb (1gbx1) DDR2 667mhz
  
• 160gb 5400rpm SATA 8mb Cache
  
• DVD/RW Dual Layer Super Multi Burner (Asus_VBI_DVD/RW)
  
• Integrated Intel 3945ABG 802.11a/b/g wireless card (3945abf-wifi)
  
• Bluetooth etc...
  

MacBook Pro 15 inch - $2499

• 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
  
• 2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
  
• 160gb Serial ATA @ 5400
  
• SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
  
• MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
  
• Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
  
• Accessory Kit
  

Asus C90S Here or Here -$1600- $1700

• Intel (Conroe) Core 2 Duo E6600(2.4GHZ) 4mb cache 1066FSB
  
• 2048mb (2gbx1) DDR2 667mhz (Kingston or Corsair)
  
• 160gb 5400rpm SATA 8mb Cache
  
• nVidia NV-8600-GT 256mb or 8600 GT 512mb
  
• Integrated Intel 3945ABG 802.11a/b/g wireless card
  
• DVD/RW Dual Layer Super Multi Burner
  
• Bluetooth etc..
  

MacBook Pro 17 inch -$2799

• 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
  
• 2GB 667 DDR2 - 2x1GB SO-DIMMs
  
• 160GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
  
• SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
  
• MacBook Pro 17-inch Widescreen Display
  
• Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
  

(2 PC Choices, there are more yet these are the best all rounders)

 

MSI MS-1719 - $1700 (Approx)

• T7700 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
  
• nVidia 8600GT 512MB
  
• 2GB DDR2/667 (Corsair or Kingston)
  
• 160GB SATA 5400rpm
  
• 8x DVD+/-RW
  
• WLAN: Intel 4965/Bluetooth
  
  

Clevo M570RU - $1900 (Approx)

 

• T7700 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
  
• nVidia 8700M 512MB
  
• 2GB DDR2/667 (Corsair or Kingston)
  
• 160GB SATA 5400rpm
  
• 8x DVD+/-RW DL
  
• WLAN: Intel 4965/Bluetooth
  

Top Spec MacBook Pro - $4049

• 2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
  
• 4GB 667 DDR2 - 2x2GB SO-DIMMs
  
• 200GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
  
• SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
  
• MacBook Pro 17-inch High-Resolution Widescreen Display
  
• Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
  

Clevo D901C? - $2900 (Approx)

• 17 WSXGA+ GV (1920 x 1200)
  
  
• nVidia 8800M GTX 512MB
  
• E6750 2.66ghz
  
• 4GB DDR2/667 (Kingston or Corsair)
  
• 200GB SATA300 7200rpm
  
• 8x DVD+/-RW DL
  
• WLAN: Intel 4965N/Bluetooth
  

[NB: This could also have up to 2 extra hard-drives for storage and a quad core Q6700 and still be 500 dollars cheaper, also all the PC laptops I have shown come with 1 years manufactures warranty]

 

Also I feel some of the PC laptop chooses here especially the Clevo's have stunning and intuitave designs similar to what you expect from a "Apple Product" which in some respects disproves that PC Laptops in general are very bland and generic.

 

With some comments about MacBooks having their air vents at the rear for improved cooling, have a look at pictures of both the Clevo's and you will see air vents at the rear too.

 

So thats my ramble, please comment away and yes I know these are not Dells/HPs or whatever, however Apple is not a "mainstream" company in comparison to the likes of Dell or HP etc so comparing such is irrelevant.

[Ongeloof]

Apples hardware is very overpriced, but you can't question the quality.Think MarkApples hardware is very overpriced, but you can't question the quality.Think Mark

The party crew is here: What more do we need?

OMG, you forgot Mr wiggles and he moma' Think Mark

[Konami®]

When you pay for an Apple Product you don't just pay for OS X, you pay for their high quality hardware design, that's why is more expensive than a windows based PC with the same hardware. The $300 or $500 difference is in their hardware design and features.

[Ongeloof]

When you pay for an Apple Product you don't just pay for OS X, you pay for their high quality hardware design, that's why is more expensive than a windows based PC with the same hardware. The $300 or $500 difference is in their hardware design and features.

Exactly, even when the PC tries to look cool and cutting edge, like the gateway one, it fails. Nothing can replace Apples design team, they are on eof the best in the world.

 

Think Mark

[justvisiting]

when you pay for any product, you pay for profit margin. Apple has a higher profit margin that most. evidence? cash on hand in their SEC filings.

[SpeedfreaK]

dude, the macbook is indeed a bit overpriced, but the macbook pro isn't!try to find a pc with the same specs (camera, wireless N, same processor, video card,...) WITH an Vista ultimate (since mac os x is the best there is, it's more fair to compare it to vista ultimate) and add the software that isn't for free in vista (obviously if it is in mac os x). that can't be cheaper. and if it is, it is not much. but you don't have a supermarket laptop that looks ugly, no, you have a macbook pro with a decent os and from an A-brand company and it looks very nicesame for imac: you pay more for the ultra sexy design (not much), but you have a nice pcfor the mac pro you don't pay more than for the same ugly dell (the new mac pro's are very good priced)

I know this is my first post et al, however reading through these posts and people seeming to want actual proven facts, figures info showing how a pc vs mac equivalent is x y and z with a million and one other things inbetween. Just to clear a few things, yes Europe is being ripped off by a good 15% over the board for Apple products. An Mac mini can not be beaten price to price with a similar small form factor pc. However every other apple related hardware can be beaten to the ground (if you know where to look) for price to hardware comparison and that is also using good quality branded products. As the laptop seem to never be looked at, I will for now start with just the MacBooks, all of them and give examples of equal specs and similar quality and it will be cheaper (on the 13.3" MacBooks its only marginal however on the larger Pro's there is a significant difference.)All PC specs will not include an OS, as pretty much anyone who is planning to do this would have a copy of either a Windows (whatever) and OSX (whatever).

that is exactly the thing that i hate when people are trying to compare macs to pc's! if you buy a mac, you pay for os x and all the other software that's standard on a mac! what kind of comparison is that? dude, on a mac you have: a standard viewer for all document formats (in windows, you have to download adobe reader, word, photoshop just to view those files), you have garageband, you have imovie, and more apps (like dvd player, just try to play a dvd on a fresh installed windows pc. or more: try to burn a dvd in a fresh installed xp). software costs money, and you are an idiot if you try to compare "no brand" pc's with no software to good looking A-brand pc's with a bunch of good software and the best os!don't make such foolish mistakes again pls, it hurts my heart

[Mac Guguen]

Well. with the spec you put up, Its only the Monitor that matters, The smaller the more expensive.

 

Thats because smaller pixels have to be put on the 11"or 13" monitors for the same resolution as your 17"

 

And trust me smaller monitors cost alot more, take Sony TX for example, theyre like 2300 USD

[apowerr]

dude, the macbook is indeed a bit overpriced, but the macbook pro isn't!try to find a pc with the same specs (camera, wireless N, same processor, video card,...) WITH an Vista ultimate (since mac os x is the best there is, it's more fair to compare it to vista ultimate) and add the software that isn't for free in vista (obviously if it is in mac os x). that can't be cheaper.

Wrong

15.4 inch Macbook Pro: (Source)

1440 x 900

Built in webcam+microphone

CD+DVD Burner

2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

4GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x2GB

200GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm

Mac OS X 10.5

Total Cost= $3649.00

 

15.4 Inch Dell XPS M1530: (Source)

1440 x 900

Built in webcam+microphone

CD+DVD Burner

2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

4GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x2GB

200GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm

Windows Vista Ultimate

Total Cost= $2,374.00

 

Difference in price= $1,275.00

 

The Macbook is the one thats not that overpriced. While the Pro is a fantastic machine, it cost a lot more than it's identically spec'd competitors.

[A Nonny Moose]

We've done the price comparison in another thread and found that Macs are slightly less expensive when you take everything into account (software included).

[macprodan]

Look until you have owned both an apple and another brand you simply cannot base your arguments on anything but speculation. I can say without any doubt in my mind that Apple Product are super value for money, extremely well designed both visually and in other ways, they are tough sexy and perform like a hooker looking for another score of crack.

[CLiDE FTW!!1]

dude, the macbook is indeed a bit overpriced, but the macbook pro isn't!try to find a pc with the same specs (camera, wireless N, same processor, video card,...) WITH an Vista ultimate (since mac os x is the best there is, it's more fair to compare it to vista ultimate) and add the software that isn't for free in vista (obviously if it is in mac os x). that can't be cheaper. and if it is, it is not much.

I love Apple laptops (except MacBook Air -- it's a joke), but you asked for it:

 

MacBook 15" Baseline Price: $1,999

 

VS

 

XPS M1530

 

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7500 (2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache)

Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate Edition

Crimson Red

Glossy, widescreen 15.4 inch LCD (1280x800) & 2.0 MP Camera

3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms)

250GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive

256MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8600M GT

8X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability

PRICE: $1,599

 

Actually, the Dell has a better spec'd baseline -- it has a bigger hard drive and more ram right off the bat. You can't get less than 3GB... I was about to change the ram size on the MacBook Pro to make it even -- but you're adding $700.

 

If I were really a jerk, I'd go down to detail and make everything spec - to - spec for the MacBook Pro -- but then the difference would be over $1000.

 

I just like the Apple design and OS X better -- not that I'd refuse to use Vista -- I like Vista, too

[Konami®]

I love Apple laptops (except MacBook Air -- it's a joke), but you asked for it:

 

MacBook 15" Baseline Price: $1,999

 

VS

 

XPS M1530

 

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7500 (2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache)

Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate Edition

Crimson Red

Glossy, widescreen 15.4 inch LCD (1280x800) & 2.0 MP Camera

3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms)

250GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive

256MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8600M GT

8X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability

PRICE: $1,599

 

Actually, the Dell has a better spec'd baseline -- it has a bigger hard drive and more ram right off the bat. You can't get less than 3GB... I was about to change the ram size on the MacBook Pro to make it even -- but you're adding $700.

 

If I were really a jerk, I'd go down to detail and make everything spec - to - spec for the MacBook Pro -- but then the difference would be over $1000.

 

I just like the Apple design and OS X better -- not that I'd refuse to use Vista -- I like Vista, too

 

Well, I was a windows user for years, until OSX86 came to life. I will never going to touch windows again, I think is really {censored} vs OS X. The Apple products just works, the hardware cost more because you have a complete controlled computer from the designer (Apple) in which control the software and hardware, Microsoft does not provide controlled environment like Apple do, so this is why you have a better quality computer and I think even with the same specification, Apple is superior.

[glassJAw]

It seems the nerds are always obsessed with specs and not the things that you can't put a price on like user experience. Normal computer users don't care about specs as long as things don't run like {censored}.

 

People like Apple for their OS and quality and are willing to pay the premium to get it while people who never used OS X, or dislike it get a cheaper Windows based machine.

 

I enjoy using my Macbook, it's the most versatile computer I have ever used. It's a 1.83 Core2Duo, 2 gigs of ram and a 200 gig 7200 RPM drive.

[robotskip]

Or certain people put a higher price on the apparent UX of the MacOS.

[S.SubZero]

It seems the nerds are always obsessed with specs and not the things that you can't put a price on like user experience. Normal computer users don't care about specs as long as things don't run like {censored}.

Normal computer users don't know what "don't run like {censored}" even means. They know what the PC they use at work runs like, and they know what the PC they use at home runs like. That's their impression of computers. These people I know had this old P200 (Pentium I) junk box for years that they believed was fine for them. When they bought my old P4 2.8Ghz laptop to use for business, they were utterly blown away. The old P200 junk box suddenly became woefully slow and unusable and they ended up replacing it.

 

People who buy Macbook Pros for $3000-$4000 with slow hard drives and weak video cards, they believe they are getting the only thing that will do what they need to do. Perhaps they are. Apple has certainly convinced them. Maybe they think MacBooks are flawless or something. I've heard that Apple uses magically superior hardware that nobody else has! The fact that OS X natively recognizes and supports a surprising amount of generic PC hardware in OSX86 might be a clue to the contrary.

 

It really comes down to what people perceive as value and as useful. If you look at the stats, the vast majority of computer users do not feel Apple computers provide either.

[Konami®]

Normal computer users don't know what "don't run like {censored}" even means. They know what the PC they use at work runs like, and they know what the PC they use at home runs like. That's their impression of computers. These people I know had this old P200 (Pentium I) junk box for years that they believed was fine for them. When they bought my old P4 2.8Ghz laptop to use for business, they were utterly blown away. The old P200 junk box suddenly became woefully slow and unusable and they ended up replacing it.

 

People who buy Macbook Pros for $3000-$4000 with slow hard drives and weak video cards, they believe they are getting the only thing that will do what they need to do. Perhaps they are. Apple has certainly convinced them. Maybe they think MacBooks are flawless or something. I've heard that Apple uses magically superior hardware that nobody else has! The fact that OS X natively recognizes and supports a surprising amount of generic PC hardware in OSX86 might be a clue to the contrary.

 

It really comes down to what people perceive as value and as useful. If you look at the stats, the vast majority of computer users do not feel Apple computers provide either.

 

I agree with you but also you have to understand that Apple provide the software and hardware in a controlled environment and provide less problem than a PC that have a lot of junk software when you buy it, not just windows. updates to firmware is more easy to do, customer support is more strong. You have to think about what the apple computer provide to the user experience and not put the fact in specification. PC and mac today have the same hardware but not the same support, user experience and design quality.

[Alessandro17]

It really comes down to what people perceive as value and as useful. If you look at the stats, the vast majority of computer users do not feel Apple computers provide either.

 

Exactly. OS X has become for me little more than an hobby OS, a distant third after Linux and Windows XP (because of a couple of programs).

Here a MacBook Pro 17" costs € 2,699.00, with nothing added, not even a dial-up modem (which is still needed in Italy) and with a miserly 160GB 5400-rpm HD, which now is standard even in € 600 notebooks.

That is a crazy amount of money in this country with the current economic climate: it is at least 2.5 monthly wages/salaries for most. Especially when you can get a notebook with decent specs for about € 600, and one with great specs for about € 1200/1400.

With other words, for the vast majority of Italians the priority now isn't "luxury" (if a Mac can be considered as a luxury), but saving money.

 

For those who don't believe me, here is an example. It is in Italian, but it shouldn't be too difficult to understand:

 

Dell Inspiron 1720

 

PROCESSORE Processore Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7700 (2,40 GHz, FSB 800 MHz, cache L2 4 MB)

SISTEMA OPERATIVO Windows Vista® Ultimate autentico

SCELTA COLORI Nero opaco con webcam da 2 megapixel

SUPPORTO HARDWARE 1 anno di garanzia di base - Ritiro e restituzione

LCD Passate dal display WXGA+ da 17" al display WXGA+ widescreen (1440 x 900) da 17" con TrueLife™

MEMORIA SDRAM DDR2 a doppio canale da 2048 MB a 667 MHz [2 x 1024]

UNITÀ DISCO RIGIDO Doppio disco rigido SATA da 320 GB (5400 rpm) (2 x 160 GB)

SCHEDA GRAFICA nVidia® GeForce™ Go 8600M GT con 256 MB di memoria grafica dedicata DDR2

UNITÀ OTTICHE Unità interna fissa DVD+/-RW 8x con software

BATTERIA PRINCIPALE Batteria principale 6 celle agli ioni di litio (56 Wh)

Accessori

BLUETOOTH Modulo Dell™ Wireless 355 Bluetooth 2.0 (fino a 3 Mb/s), velocità avanzata trasm. Dati - Eur

CONNETTIVITÀ WIRELESS Scheda mini Intel® Pro Wireless 3945 802.11a/b/g, Europa - Core 2 Duo Processors

SOFTWARE MICROSOFT Microsoft® Works 8.5, italiana

Il sistema include inoltre

Modem Adattatore e modem interno 56,6 k V.92

Supporto standard 1 anno di garanzia di base - Ritiro e restituzione

Sintonizzatori TV Telecomando da viaggio Dell™

 

Totale 1.349,81 € (half the price of a MacBook Pro with similar specs)

 

Please note the double HD, 320 GB

 

Also please note that I have upgraded the OS to Ultimate and the CPU to the fastest available, so that I could match the MacBook Pro specs. Without these upgrades a saving of at least €350 was possible (Vista Home Premium, 2.00 GHz CPU, not bad specs).

[CLiDE FTW!!1]

It seems the nerds are always obsessed with specs and not the things that you can't put a price on like user experience. Normal computer users don't care about specs as long as things don't run like {censored}.

 

People like Apple for their OS and quality and are willing to pay the premium to get it while people who never used OS X, or dislike it get a cheaper Windows based machine.

 

I enjoy using my Macbook, it's the most versatile computer I have ever used. It's a 1.83 Core2Duo, 2 gigs of ram and a 200 gig 7200 RPM drive.

Everyone here is at least an advanced user -- so of course we're going to look at specs.

 

Normal users look for value, though. And that's why Dell and HP are kicking Apple's ass in sales.

[S.SubZero]

I agree with you but also you have to understand that Apple provide the software and hardware in a controlled environment and provide less problem than a PC that have a lot of junk software when you buy it, not just windows. updates to firmware is more easy to do, customer support is more strong. You have to think about what the apple computer provide to the user experience and not put the fact in specification. PC and mac today have the same hardware but not the same support, user experience and design quality.

This is arguable. Apple's not perfect. The iPhone pricing fiasco shows they have no problems with screwing over customers. They have their bad decisions, their defective hardware, their buggy software, just like any PC user deals with. The difference here tho.. Well, I wasn't happy with how Dell handled a warranty claim recently. My next laptop won't be a Dell. If an Apple customer is unhappy with how Apple treats them or unhappy with the product, but relies on the software.. well they either cheat and do OSX86, or they are stuck with Apple. Even when Apple completely abandons the hardware platform. Twice. In 10 years.

[Headrush69]

Normal users look for value, though. And that's why Dell and HP are kicking Apple's ass in sales.

Although value is an important criteria for many "home" users, even if Apple computers sold for next to identical prices, Windows based PCs would still probably outpace Apple sales significantly for quite some time. There is still a big stigma to anything NOT Windows and a ton of misinformation regarding Apple computers and OS X.

 

(Might as well maximize your profit as you gradually gain market share and move to a more "established" platform.)

[CLiDE FTW!!1]

Although value is an important criteria for many "home" users, even if Apple computers sold for next to identical prices, Windows based PCs would still probably outpace Apple sales significantly for quite some time. There is still a big stigma to anything NOT Windows and a ton of misinformation regarding Apple computers and OS X.

 

(Might as well maximize your profit as you gradually gain market share and move to a more "established" platform.)

 

Correct -- and Apple isn't rectifying this problem with it's prices, either.

[Synaesthesia]

Although value is an important criteria for many "home" users, even if Apple computers sold for next to identical prices, Windows based PCs would still probably outpace Apple sales significantly for quite some time. There is still a big stigma to anything NOT Windows and a ton of misinformation regarding Apple computers and OS X.

 

(Might as well maximize your profit as you gradually gain market share and move to a more "established" platform.)

I agree! When I was shopping for a computer 2 years ago (before Insanelymac ), my friend was like, 'Get a Mac!', but I just wouldn't consider them, even though I thought the core duo mac mini was great value! I just had a mental block against them, like everyone else I guess...

[Headrush69]

Correct -- and Apple isn't rectifying this problem with it's prices, either.

And price would NEVER rectify the problems I'm talking about.

 

Apple has always been about design whether it be the machine itself or the OS.

Sure cheaper priced Macs might bring in more OS X converts but it might also just sell a lot of cool designed computers that people would just run Windows alone on.

Sure it still makes Apple some money but I'm guessing not what they want or what fits their company objectives.

(Or they could have easily just have become a cool "PC" supplier and dropped OS X a long time ago.)

 

Considering they keep selling at all time highs, why should they lower the prices other than us just wanting cheaper prices?

 

Why are brand name tires more expensive than no name tires even though they are made by the same company and just rebranded?

Why are brand name groceries more expensive than no name groceries even thought they are made by the same company and just rebranded?

Insert many more examples here....

 

Bottom line you are paying for the name and the OS.

 

Question should be why so much of a stink to Apple computers being overpriced when we purchase other overpriced products all the time?

 

1) We can't quite afford to buy an Apple and are disappointed/bitter.

2) We have become spoiled with the price of electronics these days.

[dutchiee (=]

I like Apples

 

 

 

 

 

 

nah but in all seriousness, Apple products are overly priced, at least the Mac ones anyways. Why would i spend a good $4000 when i could spend a mere 2.5-3k considering what some of us are doing? i mean i read up not too long ago about a user in this forum buying apple matching parts running at the same speed as one of the fastes mac pro's and saving himself alot of money. i mean it all runs genuinly too, no EFI, no hacks for this, only some drivers to support gpu and what not.

 

I was interested in buying an Apple notebook until i saw the specs for the prices, i was just thinking of buying an Asus laptop with better specs and using that, plus its a heck of alot cheaper too. I mean it may not be as easy to install on, but at times no OSX86 ever is. i Had my troubles installing my current OSX, plus its fun to figure out the problems.

 

I just dont see the point in spending so much money on genuine mac when i could buy a better cheaper laptop which could do the same thing? I mean i understand the whole " Its a Mac " thing like woah! but Mac isnt that great. It may be better then windows but the actual user support and buyers is far greater. and you can do more with spending less money. just use a hack, unless u wanna spend extra money to make it more genuine, if so, just go buy the OS and make it work.

 

just my two cents..