The high price of Apple computers

[KellyKelly]

if you think of the design and build quality, I will choose Apple over PC. Also it comes with the awesome Mac OS X operationg system and lot of useful software. Apple is like all in one, they think different, think outside the box. Such as the Front row with remote, Front row looks awesome. 1 click it brings out the media center, Desktop zoom out. For windows, you have to click on Media Center to brings up the application. Also there's no remote incould. The GUI on Mac is way better.

 

iSight Camera, high quality, no lagging when taking videos. Love it.

 

Slot loading DVD, don't even have to push the damn button to wait for the tray to come out and plug the disc in, just push the disk in and ready to go.

[~pcwiz]

Yep, OS X is a nice OS and design is definetely something we can congratulate Apple on. If you are an experienced user, you would definitely go for the mac but people who are new to the tech world will opt for the PC in terms of value for price.

[empreality]

Well apparently, the macs have this new "feature" of "data loss"

 

I don't remember that being in Windows XP or even Vista for that matter...

[Colonel Ingus]

the macs have this new "feature" of "data loss"

Really? Since when does Apple own Seagate?

[mhbas0001]

Do you ever think before you post, or do you just descend into fanaticism every time your beliefs are even slightly challenged?

 

Apple doesn't have to own Seagate for their products, and their users to be affected, but they are responsible for shipping their products with faulty hardware.

[Threepwood]

Wow, there are many geeks here drooling over specs... As people have already pointed out most computers are fast enough for most people nowadays, other features have become more important. Using OS X with Exposé, Dashboard, Spotlight, the dock (yes I think it's superior to Windows' taskbar) is a very nice experience, and some people want the system that gives them the best total experience, not just the highest numbers in benchmark programs. Some people don't think Windows and OS X are equal and they are ready to pay a little extra to get the better one. Get it??

 

10 years ago you really wanted the most bang for the buck since that's what made the user experience better. Even for common users. Nowadays it might be the fact that you don't have to waste so much time setting up a Mac that is that 'bang'. Or the fact that the iMac is quiet out of the box. For some people that means a lot. Sure, I know how to work a Windows machine, I've always built my own computers, but I don't enjoy wasting time fixing things that don't work like I want them to. Especially not all these horrid Windows laptops that I have to clean up/set up for everyone I know. I convinced one friend to get a Mac and it's such a relief. He's happy and I don't have to waste time getting his brand new computer in working condition.

 

A workstation is a different matter. You usually only work with one or two main apps, so the window manager doesn't really matter. If you're doing 3D, audio or something really demanding you want the fastest system your money can buy, and the OS isn't as important since you spend most of the time in Cubase/Nuendo/the Adobe suite, or whatever.

 

Conclusion: buying a Mac if you really enjoy working with them isn't stupid even if you have to pay a little more for performance. And yes, most computers are overkill for most users.

[Colonel Ingus]

Apple doesn't have to own Seagate for their products, and their users to be affected

Maybe not, but that has nothing to do with what we said. Try reading what we wrote and not just what you want to read next time, and while you're at it, try doing a little research before you start howling at the moon. From Macrumors:

 

There is news today on potential data loss vulnerabilities in Mac OS and in Apple's notebook drives manufactured by Seagate.

 

The other data loss vulnerability surrounds Apple's MacBook and MacBook Pro computers that utilize certain Seagate drives. UK data recovery firm Retrodata discovered a flaw where the read/write head fails and causes gouges in the hard drive platter. The faulty drives are all Seagate 2.5" drives that are manufactured in China, with a Firmware revision of 7.01. They are also all SATA interface. No other drives seem (at this stage) to be affected.

[empreality]

Something interesting to add...It's not that Mac OSX is bad or anything, it's just the smug userbase that support it...

 

Look at Linux, it's not getting annnnnnnnnny {censored} from anybody...Everybody knows it's good, fast, runs on any system, can tray-and-run, hackers favor it...

Basically, everything knows what it is, and that its a good alternative to Windows...

 

With Mac OSX, you have these huge message boards and communities, insanelymac.com is a great example, where there is constantly 1652 or so users online.... Now take a look a look at most of the the threads, they are filled with snotty {censored} flame wars, where one says Windows PWNZ, and then you have people start defending Apple like they are Job's {censored}...Reminder! You don't work for Apple or get any money supporting them, so you can chill with the "nerdgasm" every time you are fighting back...

 

Also, 1652, is quite a big number..................for a Operating System fan forum...

 

Heck, look at http://www.thetecharea.com/forums/ (Formerly MSBetas) specifically http://www.thetecharea.com/forums/index.php?showforum=213 (Windows Section)

 

And try to find a thread comparing Windows with OSX...

 

Even OSX section, http://www.thetecharea.com/forums/index.php?showforum=212 ....

 

ZERO {censored} SMUGFUL SNOTTY THREADS...

 

Basically, the problem with specifically Mac userbase, is that they are filled with the biggest {censored}s in the world!

 

Here is a good example from the " Leopard a Service Pack?" thread:

 

Wow that Paul guy is a dicknose. He should definitely go jump off of a short cliff into a bed of blunt spikes. Oh and he should bring his {censored} OS Windows with him. Maybe I should talk to him about my wonderful time trying to fix Windows even before it's been installed. Yes that's right, it's not even installed and I'm having critical problems with it.

 

Someone should hack his website specifically to get rid of that banner.

 

It's like what the hell?! Don't you have anything better to do than go on a message board...about an Operating System and going all {censored} everybody....For christ sakes! A FREAKIN OS forum...That's is like even more sad than cosplay...lol

 

Mac OSX is great, but damn! You guys are such {censored}s!

[mhbas0001]

Maybe not, but that has nothing to do with what we said. Try reading what we wrote and not just what you want to read next time, and while you're at it, try doing a little research before you start howling at the moon. From Macrumors:

 

You just don't seem to have the capacity to reason. It doesn't matter what company manufactured the harddrives, according to your very own words, Apple is a hardware company, and when people buy hardware from Apple, they expect it to work, as simple as that. Apple is responsible for choosing to use Seagate hardware in their products, and just like Dell, HP, Acer, and any other computer company, they are ultimately responsible for making sure their products work when they arrive in the hands of the consumer. If somebody is having trouble with an Apple laptop, they're not going to call Seagate for a refund or repair, they're going to call Apple. Simple as that.

 

There is such a thing as quality control.

[Ihana]

I'm not tech savvy enough to build a Hackentosh and have never used a mac so I bought a uses imac G5 17" for $550.00 just to see what all the OS X hype is about. For starters there 17" screen is a little wider than my 17 SyncMaster but it's 2" shorter so I loose 20% viewing area & have to fit the same page on the imac I would need to make the resolution so small I can bearly read it.

 

I can't take advantage of lots of free software ie Grisoft AVG because none of it is made for mac and that's a big disadvantage right there & that's just the first download I tried.

 

Anybody what to buy a imac G5?

 

Kirk

[PGHammer]

You just don't seem to have the capacity to reason. It doesn't matter what company manufactured the harddrives, according to your very own words, Apple is a hardware company, and when people buy hardware from Apple, they expect it to work, as simple as that. Apple is responsible for choosing to use Seagate hardware in their products, and just like Dell, HP, Acer, and any other computer company, they are ultimately responsible for making sure their products work when they arrive in the hands of the consumer. If somebody is having trouble with an Apple laptop, they're not going to call Seagate for a refund or repair, they're going to call Apple. Simple as that.

 

There is such a thing as quality control.

 

And yet Apple has gotten burned by *precisely* this sort of tight-fistedness before (anyone remember the original eMac?) and have produced a few lemons (remember, the original Mac clone market did *not*, as much as Steve Jobs has claimed, time and again, get killed due to poor build quality; most of the clones had at least as solid a build quality as the genuine Apple article, and, in the case of some Power Computing and UMAX models, actually exceeded the quality of Apple's own products).

 

Apple, on the other hand, has tended to be more *about the box* as opposed to the *contents of the box* (this is even more true about their MacBooks and iMacs; I have since discovered exactly *why* the Mac minis and MacBooks, let alone the iMac, have such paltry base hard drives). Apple's insistence on not producing a lower-end tower below that of the Mac Pro (and it's pair of dual-core XEONs) *still* makes no sense to me whatever (and as little as Q6600 processors cost in any sort of volume beyond one, that decision makes less sense as the months go by).

 

That is the unfilled market that the Hackintosh occupies: the marketplace above the iMac and Mac mini, and below the Mac Pro. A decently-designed system built around the Q6600 would be a heck of a hole-filler.

[michalisTT]

Well, I have a MBP 15,4'' the 2,4 GHz model. I won't argue based on this OS.

I didn't find it to be overpriced at all. I got it for 1400 GBP which is not bad considering that it has one of the best Graphics cards you can find on a notebook today, the 8600GT 256mb and you can't get better than 2,4 GHz C2D in a windows powered notebook.

It also one of the most practical 15,4'' you can find in terms of dimensions and weight and arguably the prettiest.

[robotskip]

I recently got myself a new system:

 

E6750

Gigabyte P35-DS3P

BFG 8800GT OC 512MB

Western Digital 500GB SataII 16MB Cache

Coolermaster RC-690

Corsair 4GB DDR2 800MHZ

Corsair HX-620

 

All up this cost me $1388AU and is a beast.

 

But I looked elsewhere too, like Dell, HP, Apple, etc and all were over-priced with way low specs. So, my venture to the Apple store was amusing as to get a system a lot slower/worse specs costs me almost 3x (A$ 4,368.99) as much and it's not really anywhere near as good as the one I built -- that's insane, admittedly I get a screen but hey, I have no choice, do I? Also, the video card choices (Of which there are pretty much none) suck too. Is there a way to find out what brands Apple uses for their harware? Like who makes their RAM, etc?

 

I've used MacOS a fair bit for a few years and I don't see any real benefit over Windows or Linux, so MacOS isn't a convincing reason for me to spend an extra $3000 for a slower system. But oh well, Apple ignores a lot of markets with it's products (But not marketing) and the other huge amount of people like me will continue building our own systems or even buying from companies like Dell.

 

Oh, and the apparent 'build quality' of Apple computers isn't a convincing factor either considering they don't appear to be all that hot with all the reported problems, sites dedicated to just MacBook problems, etc and some of us are tired of the Apple look. Also, my friend recently got a new Dell and I took a look around/inside and surprisingly it is really well built and put together and when I build my own I have complete control over quality so I know it's well built.

 

I tried to convince myself to get a Mac this time and to find a decent one, but my goodness, Apple really doesn't want to sell computers to certain groups. Oh well, I'm more than happy with Vista/Ubuntu or if I wanted to bother [again] I could setup OSX86 so really, I'm missing out on nothing by not buying a Mac.

 

So, as much as I like Macs they're over-priced, have bad hardware choices, have limited hardware choices, etc and simply aren't for me, hell, they don't really even seem to be for the average consumer over here. You can get a better PC for less from Dell and as I mentioned, their latest PCs seem to be built well and the systems in their Home Desktop range can handle Vista more than fine and despite what people say, Vista is fine. I know of a few people who got new PCs in the last few weeks (Yay for holiday buying) and haven't heard any huge complaints from them about Vista, most just say "It looks nice" and that's it -- they don't really care about the OS as most consumers don't. Also, you can pretend that most people don't need the hardware they have but this isn't true for the average family with a kid who plays games.

 

empreality, exactly, on all othe forums I visit for the most part people are friendly, smart and so on, but man, on here you say the slightest thing and you have the same bunch of people coming down on you as if you insulted their mother.

[Guest MrRogers]

Robotskip, here is a simple diagram of what is happening now thanks to your recent post.

 

[Maxintosh]

LOL, that was pretty funny. I guess a picture is worth a thousand words

 

Is there a way to find out what brands Apple uses for their harware? Like who makes their RAM

I think you mean whos ram does Apple use. No one 'makes' ram for Apple per se Ordinarily they use Hynix, but Mushkin actually works better. Apple doesn't use it 'stock' because Hynix beat the bid.

[CLiDE FTW!!1]

I said it once, and I'll say it again.

 

MacBooks = unbeatable value. Easily the best laptop on the market.

 

However, I'll never spend a dime on an Apple desktop -- and as long as I can buy my own computer parts separately, Apple will never see that dime. Unless a brand new iMac costed a dime, that is. That'll be the day I eat my hat.

[~pcwiz]

I dunno about the quality and all those billion factors people mentioned but MacBook is one of the fastest (or possibly the fastest) laptop for OS X, and surprisingly, Vista in the market currently. That's right, Vista. Thats what PC World magazine reported. The MacBook Pro runs Vista faster than any PC laptop on the market, using Boot Camp.

[Colonel]

I dunno about the quality and all those billion factors people mentioned but MacBook is one of the fastest (or possibly the fastest) laptop for OS X, and surprisingly, Vista in the market currently. That's right, Vista. Thats what PC World magazine reported. The MacBook Pro runs Vista faster than any PC laptop on the market, using Boot Camp.

Old news.

[Maxintosh]

I like this quote the best:

 

"The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year (through 10/25/07) is a Mac. Try that again: The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year--or for that matter, ever--is a Mac. Not a Dell, not a Toshiba, not even an Alienware."

 

Hmmm... guess Macs don't 'just' look sexy

[S.SubZero]

I said it once, and I'll say it again.

 

MacBooks = unbeatable value. Easily the best laptop on the market.

 

Decently decked out high-end MacBook Pro:

2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

2GB 667 DDR2 - 2x1GB SO-DIMMs

160GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm

SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

MacBook Pro 17-inch High-Resolution Widescreen Display

Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English

---

Subtotal $2,899.00

.

.

Decently decked out "high-end" Dell Inspiron E1720:

Jet Black

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7700 (2.4GHz/800Mhz FSB/4MB cache)

Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition

High Resolution, glossy widescreen 17.0 inch display (1920 x 1200)

256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600M GT

2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz

Speed: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) Free Fall Sensor

CD / DVD writer (DVD+/-RW Drive)

Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-Card

Integrated 2.0 Megapixel Webcam

56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)

High Definition Audio 2.0

---

Subtotal $1,799

 

You're free to check Dell and Apple's websites to get the rest of the specs, but they are for the most part the same stuff. I did have to give the Dell a faster hard drive and I threw in the wireless-n as well for an extra $50.

 

If it was $100 or $200, I could accept it. Please explain what makes an $1100 price gap an "unbeatable value."

[CLiDE FTW!!1]

Decently decked out high-end MacBook Pro:

2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

2GB 667 DDR2 - 2x1GB SO-DIMMs

160GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm

SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

MacBook Pro 17-inch High-Resolution Widescreen Display

Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English

---

Subtotal $2,899.00

.

.

Decently decked out "high-end" Dell Inspiron E1720:

Jet Black

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7700 (2.4GHz/800Mhz FSB/4MB cache)

Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition

High Resolution, glossy widescreen 17.0 inch display (1920 x 1200)

256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600M GT

2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz

Speed: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) Free Fall Sensor

CD / DVD writer (DVD+/-RW Drive)

Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-Card

Integrated 2.0 Megapixel Webcam

56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)

High Definition Audio 2.0

---

Subtotal $1,799

 

You're free to check Dell and Apple's websites to get the rest of the specs, but they are for the most part the same stuff. I did have to give the Dell a faster hard drive and I threw in the wireless-n as well for an extra $50.

 

If it was $100 or $200, I could accept it. Please explain what makes an $1100 price gap an "unbeatable value."

I didn't say pro.

 

Please explain why you compared something else.

 

 

So, since we're comparing Apples to Dells, I'll do the comparison for you:

 

Inspiron XPS 1330

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7500 (2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache), English

Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate Edition, English

Crimson Red Casing with Microsatin Finish XPS M1330

Standard Display with 2.0 Megapixel Webcam

1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz

120GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)

Intel® Integrated Graphics Media Accelerator 3100

8X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive)

---

Subtotal: $1,439

 

 

MacBook 2.2ghz

We all know what's in the MacBook. (it's exactly the same setup as above)

---

Subtotal: $1,299

 

Can you please explain to my as to why I'd buy something that costs more and does less? (like running Leopard 100%)

[S.SubZero]

I didn't say pro.

 

Please explain why you compared something else.

Because otherwise it's just sad.

 

MacBook non-Pro:

 

2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

2GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB

160GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm

Superdrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English

AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth

 

Subtotal $1,649.00

 

Wow, I get 4 less inches of screen, integrated video, and a slower processor, but I save $150!

 

"But 13.3 inch screens are small and compact and that's why it costs more."

 

Dell XPS 1330 (Dell only offers this in 13.3")

 

Tuxedo Black (adding on the color option was funny since Apple doesn't even offer red)

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7500 (2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache)

Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium Edition (Ultimate on a 13.3" econo-laptop? No.)

Standard Display with 2.0 Megapixel Webcam

2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz

Size: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)

CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive)

Intel® Integrated Graphics Media Accelerator X3100

Dell Wireless 1490 802.11a/g Mini-Card

Built-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR)

56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)

High Definition Audio 2.0

Biometric Fingerprint Reader

 

Subtotal $1,399

 

Changing options to make one look more expensive than another is a weak tactic.

[CLiDE FTW!!1]

Because otherwise it's just sad.

 

MacBook non-Pro:

 

2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

2GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB

160GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm

Superdrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English

AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth

 

Subtotal $1,649.00

 

Wow, I get 4 less inches of screen, integrated video, and a slower processor, but I save $150!

 

"But 13.3 inch screens are small and compact and that's why it costs more."

 

Dell XPS 1330 (Dell only offers this in 13.3")

 

Tuxedo Black (adding on the color option was funny since Apple doesn't even offer red)

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7500 (2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache)

Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium Edition (Ultimate on a 13.3" econo-laptop? No.)

Standard Display with 2.0 Megapixel Webcam

2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz

Size: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)

CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive)

Intel® Integrated Graphics Media Accelerator X3100

Dell Wireless 1490 802.11a/g Mini-Card

Built-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR)

56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)

High Definition Audio 2.0

Biometric Fingerprint Reader

 

Subtotal $1,399

 

Changing options to make one look more expensive than another is a weak tactic.

What options did I change?

 

You mean, from premium to Ultimate?

 

Isn't Leopard considered "ultimate"?

 

And the White 2.2ghz MacBook is $1,299, before taxes.

[~pcwiz]

Ha ha Laptop Wars!

[S.SubZero]

What options did I change?

You added the red color and upgraded the OS.

 

Isn't Leopard considered "ultimate"?

That's subjective.

 

And the White 2.2ghz MacBook is $1,299, before taxes.

And an XPS1330 with the same specs is the same price. But there's a instant $100 savings in effect so it's $1199 currently.