Swad Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Steve Jobs ; the name has become synonymous with the company he leads. Journalists frequently ask "What will Steve Jobs do next?" as if he is the sole owner, developer, tester, screamer, and thinker at Apple. It's undeniable that Steve is the force behind Apple's success over recent years. But this Great Debate asks - is he what's best for the company going into 2007? The most common pro-Steve argument is that Apple would be nowhere without Steve's resuscitation of the company as iCEO and CEO. His ideas, his attention to detail, his eye for good design ; all of these have been incorporated into Apple's ethos and have propelled the company from rags to riches. Apple's future is very bright, and Steve's leadership has contributed greatly to that future; indeed, it might have been the only thing that gave Apple a future. But has Steve overstayed his welcome? Perhaps taking a cue from his arch-rival Bill Gates, is it time for Steve to step down and let his company proceed without him? The question is not without merit. Folklore.org is chocked full of situations in which Steve held up development for trivial aesthetic concerns, among others. Today's technology landscape is also vastly different than that in 1984 or even the mid-90's when he regained the reigns. Can a habitually proprietary Apple (a philosophy very much influenced by His Steveness) thrive in an increasingly open-source world? Will consumers continue to suffer with 1st Generation products with a history of poor performance? His company has reached the ripe old age of 30 and shows no signs of slowing. Will Steve Jobs be the factor the holds Apple back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 On the other hand, is Steve Jobs even replaceable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwrafter Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Steve is replaceable in the same way that any other person is replaceable. He has certain skills, aptitudes and viewpoints. In his case, there are not many people with the same balance. Many other people, no matter how powerful, would have caved into the RIAA. Steve just has a different viewpoint on how things "should" be. With a little luck, Apple will find someone who is as passionate about how things should be. With a little more luck, so will Microsoft. Then we could have a bit more competition (since even vista is no competition for os x) and make things better for everyone. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollcage Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I don't know if it would be a good idea for him to step down quote yet, Jobs has a lot of connections in the media industry that has really helped the iTunes Store get going. Maybe in a year and a half -ish? I think he should stick around to finish off the transition to Intel. I think he will stick around until he absolutely has to leave, because he loves Apple, and Mac/Apple users love him (for the most part), Apple won't have trouble putting out great products after Steve has decided to leave. And it will be cool to see what fresh ideas the new guy (or girl!) brings. And I think ultimately people need to be open minded to whoever replaces him, he has to start out being supported. I'd hate to see people dislke whoever it is simply because they're not Steve Jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non sequitur Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I don't know if it would be a good idea for him to step down quote yet, Jobs has a lot of connections in the media industry that has really helped the iTunes Store get going. Maybe in a year and a half -ish? I think he should stick around to finish off the transition to Intel. I think he will stick around until he absolutely has to leave, because he loves Apple, and Mac/Apple users love him (for the most part), Apple won't have trouble putting out great products after Steve has decided to leave. And it will be cool to see what fresh ideas the new guy (or girl!) brings. And I think ultimately people need to be open minded to whoever replaces him, he has to start out being supported. I'd hate to see people dislke whoever it is simply because they're not Steve Jobs. i agree that people need to be open minded, but steve jobs is steve jobs. he singlehandedly brought apple back from the dead, and now its growing more than ever. YOu can tell he lovs his job too, because he has been working for only $1 (plus stock) a year. he is very eccentric, and i dont see him stepping down for another 2 years. io can live with that, simply because i know it works. apple is doing great with him in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I don't know if it would be a good idea for him to step down quote yet... While I think Steve's ... umm... job is basically done, I agree that it is a little pre-mature for him to go. He certainly is not overtly hurting Apple yet, but if he stops Apple from licensing OS X in the future, it could be a big problem. ... but steve jobs is steve jobs. Exactly, he is literally an icon that simply is not replaceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br0adband Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 You're all forgetting about Steve's innate natural ability: "The Reality Distortion Field" No one else has it, no one else ever will... He's done a lot for Apple, just as any good coach would do for a team. As for if he's replaceable, of course he's not replaceable. The whole Scully incident years ago and then Steve returning and helping to make (he didn't make it happen, he helped it along) Apple what it is today and continues to be a force to be reckoned with. But he's not Apple, he never has been. He's just the frontman that can put on the show that the potential investors and the current stockholders love to see better than anyone else can. Fear is a powerful motivator. Scully couldn't project it, and even after asking Steve for his resignation, that wasn't enough "fear" for Scully to put in his pocket and use to move or motivate the company. One would think, "My god, he just fired Steve, the guy that helped create the company... what will he do to me?" was the implied scare tactic in effect after Steve left and Scully fully took over, but it didn't work that way. But Steve... I've had friends that worked at Apple in the mid-80s, and their tales are the stuff of legend as most of the better ones you read online at various places are. When he comes around, you better have something happening or else... Now that's fear, and Steve can wield it with a natural Skill level of 22 and he rolls 20s... watch out. bb ps Exactly, he is literally an icon that simply is not replaceable. iCon, a fantastic book about Steve. Highly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I don't think Steve is hurting Apple. The hurt came from when he left it and it almost died. Steve himself has said that the war is over and Winders won. It's time to find the next big thing and Steve did just that with the iPod and iTunes. Now, the theme is video and how to best get video done and on a TV screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 The hurt came from when he left it... No, that is not what happened. Jobs left in 1985, Apple had its marketshare peak about 1993: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/total-share.ars/10 Steve himself has said that the war is over and Winders won. It doesn't really matter what Steve says, he is liar and it certainly is not over. Things can change very quickly in the computer industry, and sooner or later "Winders" is going to be history, just like Apple almost was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 TheStreet.com is running a "rumor" that Jobs may be taking "taking a leave of absence": http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/markets/ac...E&cm_ite=NA This is not going to surprise me, if it happens sometime this year: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=266326 EDIT: Related dirt: http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=4227 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cringemaster Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Hes gonna be around for at least a year or so more. I think hes doing a great job for Apple, and like you say, there arent too many people who can do what he does and act the way he acts. And you cant look at the market share graph. It doesnt include the iPod, which is definetly something that has helped apple greatly. The iPod grabs about 75% of the MP3 player marketshare, and steve was the one that pushed developing it, so he is definetly helping apple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Since the thread I originally posted the following in appears dead, I am reposting some of what I wrote here. ... it is not going to surprise me if Steve Jobs steps down from Apple this year. There seem to be a number of vacant executive positions at Apple which are not being filled and Jobs himself may actually be getting some heat over this "back-dating" of stock-options scandal. But more importantly, the last time I saw Jobs on stage he looked sick and we know his health is not perfect either. Sooner or later he is going to leave, and he may very well chose to quit when he is so far ahead. On the other hand, I do not think he really lives to do anything else, so we will have to wait and see. ... He's never needed help with a keynote ever, until recently. There were some clearly expressed concerns about this back in August: http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/blog/2006/08...from_steve.html http://shauheen.ngareh.com/archives/000178.html ... and Apple (Steve Jobs) quickly acted to put a lid on them. But I think something is definitely up and we know that Jobs is personally implicated in the stock-option scandal which not gone away. In light of the HP "pretexting" scandal and such, it does sound like it is bad enough to seriously tarnish Jobs' reputation and AAPL stockholders certainly have nothing to {censored} about either. What I wonder is, if Jobs goes, does Apple go down with him? They were in a huge slump in the 90's before he came back. It is obvious that the contest to find Jobs' sucessor is well under way (but of course he is not exactly replaceable). These three appear to be the main candidates, as I think Apple will almost certainly promote from within: I think all of them could do a decent job, but they are very different people too. "Fat boy" Phil Schiller seems like a clown on stage with Steve, but if you look at his resume he can be taken a little more seriously and actually appears competent. Nonetheless, I think his slovenly image is inconsistent with Apple's slick product line. Bertrand Serlet is my favorite and it is he who is largely responsible for OS X as we know it. I suspect he would cut OS X loose from Mac hardware, and really drive it's development with a new kernel and programming tools. But this guy is a rather eccentric computer scientist, so I really doubt he will be selected to run Apple now that it so heavily into music and video. Scott Forstall is really the guy to watch, he is clearly being groomed to be Steve Jobs' successor by Steve himself. He seems like a fairly bright guy with both the technical savvy and political skills to really take Apple into the future. He is also the youngest of bunch which may be perceived as a benefit in light of Steve Jobs' health problems. However, I must say there is something about Scott Forstall that I really do not like either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 ... there arent too many people who can do what he does and act the way he acts. I think the real question now is what will Apple look like post-Steve. To begin with, who (or what) do we expect for the new leader of Apple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numberzz Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 (edited) If he was so sick(which he was), why did he do the ShowTime keynote by himself? He could have had th flu of something normal like that. Not cancer. The chance of any cancer in the general public is 1/10,00. If you had 10,00 people with cancer, 1,000 of those people the cancer, it is malignant so they die. 3,500 of those people die because their survival rate wasn't high enough. 5,500 people survive. Of those 5,500, about 550 have their cancer come back. Of those 550, 55 will die because of a second cancer. So therefore you have 5445 people that survived. Steve's Job's cancer is very rare. It is in about 1/100,000,000. That is low. The thing about his cancer is that it has a medium survival rate. Luckily Steve Jobs is the 44th richest person in the world and has over $5 Billion. He was able to get a $20 Million surgery on time. He had the surgery during MacWorld 2005, which is why Phil Shiller did the Keynote, which is also the year he released the "all in one" iMac design we know and love today. When people's cancer come back, it is usually after about 6-7 years. If I can do math it has only been a little less that two years. So therefore Steve Jobs is not dying and he will lead Apple to the Future. I love numbers. Edited January 7, 2007 by mr.mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberracus Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Bertrand Serlet is my favorite and it is he who is largely responsible for OS X as we know it. I suspect he would cut OS X loose from Mac hardware, and really drive it's development with a new kernel and programming tools. But this guy is a rather eccentric computer scientist, so I really doubt he will be selected to run Apple now that it so heavily into music and video. With that nerd look? no my good, the Winner Mac is about turtle neck and jeans, its part of the cool look. In the other hand the day Mac start liscensing is the day Apple losses. Apple is a HArdware manufater of consumer products. Nothing is gonna happen in the liscensing field. Jobs is just starting Apple revolution, the Maworld banner says so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 With that nerd look? no my good, the Winner Mac is about turtle neck and jeans, its part of the cool look. That's what I meant with "eccentric", but if you take a look at previous Apple presidents, Michael Spindler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Spindler and Gilbert Amelio: http://lowendmac.com/orchard/05/1221.html ... then Bertrand Serlet does not out of the question. http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/serlet.html ...and of course internal politics play a huge role here. A related question is whether Apple really needs to promote from within or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe75 Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Not that I really care but, I would say Bertrand Serlet is the best of three stooges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I just watched Steve Jobs's interview on CNBC. He looked to be in good health and very clearly stated that he intends to stay at Apple for the indefinite future. So, I now looks like we are in good hands and talk of succession is premature to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbz Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 If he was so sick(which he was), why did he do the ShowTime keynote by himself? He could have had th flu of something normal like that. Not cancer. The chance of any cancer in the general public is 1/10,00. If you had 10,00 people with cancer, 1,000 of those people the cancer, it is malignant so they die. 3,500 of those people die because their survival rate wasn't high enough. 5,500 people survive. Of those 5,500, about 550 have their cancer come back. Of those 550, 55 will die because of a second cancer. So therefore you have 5445 people that survived. Steve's Job's cancer is very rare. It is in about 1/100,000,000. That is low. The thing about his cancer is that it has a medium survival rate. Luckily Steve Jobs is the 44th richest person in the world and has over $5 Billion. He was able to get a $20 Million surgery on time. He had the surgery during MacWorld 2005, which is why Phil Shiller did the Keynote, which is also the year he released the "all in one" iMac design we know and love today. When people's cancer come back, it is usually after about 6-7 years. If I can do math it has only been a little less that two years. So therefore Steve Jobs is not dying and he will lead Apple to the Future. I love numbers. lol what's with all the commas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br0adband Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 If he was so sick(which he was), why did he do the ShowTime keynote by himself? He could have had th flu of something normal like that. Not cancer. The chance of any cancer in the general public is 1/10,00. If you had 10,00 people with cancer, 1,000 of those people the cancer, it is malignant so they die. 3,500 of those people die because their survival rate wasn't high enough. 5,500 people survive. Of those 5,500, about 550 have their cancer come back. Of those 550, 55 will die because of a second cancer. So therefore you have 5445 people that survived. Steve's Job's cancer is very rare. It is in about 1/100,000,000. That is low. The thing about his cancer is that it has a medium survival rate. Luckily Steve Jobs is the 44th richest person in the world and has over $5 Billion. He was able to get a $20 Million surgery on time. He had the surgery during MacWorld 2005, which is why Phil Shiller did the Keynote, which is also the year he released the "all in one" iMac design we know and love today. When people's cancer come back, it is usually after about 6-7 years. If I can do math it has only been a little less that two years. So therefore Steve Jobs is not dying and he will lead Apple to the Future. I love numbers. After that incredibly encrypted post, I hereby nominate Mr. Mac as the next Chairman of the Board and CEO and CTO and CFO and everything else under the sun for Apple, Inc. His apparent knowledge and skill coupled with his deft manipulation of "The Reality Distortion Field" in that post certainly makes him a viable replacement for Steve Jobs himself. Also, his wizardry with numbers should be put to good use on the books of Apple, Inc. He can sure make any P&L statement blacker than Buckwheat himself. Should we take a vote? bb DISCLAIMER: The preceding text was meant as a joke, and should be taken as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icydergosu Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 i cant imagine apple without steve jobs, he cannot be replaced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxsci(macuser) Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 true, jobs cannot be replaced -but then if you tink about it every new person is different and will lead in a different direction. after all isnt apple inc.'s moto "think different" change isnt always bad --- unless your switching from mac to windows of course, that would be a long hard ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scart Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 So do you guys think that Steve should stay or leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBK.Xscape Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 true, jobs cannot be replaced -but then if you tink about it every new person is different and will lead in a different direction. after all isnt apple inc.'s moto "think different" change isnt always bad --- unless your switching from mac to windows of course, that would be a long hard ride haha in my school we have hundreds of those black and white pictures with people such as Ghandi on them with their colorful apple. i wanna take one of them before i graduate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Steve should stay there until he dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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