654 replies to this topic

[Colonel]

buglamp, on Jul 9 2006, 09:48 PM, said:

I would say that OSX is a move that Apple 'had' to make.  Software companies 'Have' to make software.  Companies 'Have' to make money.  People 'Have' to eat small furry animals.  Ethics are subject to ignorance & Apple is just as good at selling crap as Microsoft.  The Fact of the matter is:   Vista will make OSX its bitch.  I dig OSX and at the end of the day I'll love to see OSX bitchslap Vista (could happen),  However Vista is the 600lb biker that OSX doesnt want to mess with.  Bottem line is its crap.  So you have to buy more crap to use it (note.  some crap my be well designed).  On the Bright Side ->  now the other %95 of the computing industry has somthing other then gray to look at.

Wow. That's just...wow.

buglamp, on Jul 9 2006, 09:48 PM, said:

Edit:  I would be interested to see what would happen if redhat or novell actually spent 50 million on a 3d accelerated GUI.

What about XGL and Compiz?

[kernalzero]

for $50million I'm sure the members of this forum could bang out an OS that runs better than the garbage released by M$.

[iLux]

kernalzero, on Jul 10 2006, 05:10 AM, said:

for $50million I'm sure the members of this forum could bang out an OS that runs better than the garbage released by M$.

I would not be as sure.

Even with great coders, organizing the development of something as complicated as an operating system is not something easy (look at Vista…)
But I think developers of Haiku or Hurd should be enthuisiastic about having $50 millions to help them develop.

[lord_muad_dib]

windows XP was a step forward and had to be done (server OS-like structure, ntfs support, major speedups and discrete resource usage),
Vista will be a 100 step backward(all those automatic wireless setups, sub wifi lans leading to  +holes and bugs, maybe broken software compatibility in some cases, etc....bloatetd system) and a very usefull step forward, the hardware accelerated desktop (it will lead to some massive speedups).
summing pros and cons... i will (might) install Vista after 1 or 2 service packs.

now.... if MS will release a service pack for XP including THAT improvement(seems true) i will be very happy.

talking about success or failure of vista...
well it will be a great success for microsoft, pc manifacturers will pay $bigbucks to have it on their products. clueless users will don't mind if there r bsods here and there and they will not see slowdowns. so.. mission accomplished for microsoft. doesn't matter if vista will not be a bestseller on "bookshellvs", as almost noone buys windows alone.

vista-like server os will be a great failure instead as end users will stick with 2000 or 2003.

[moon God]

When I first saw Vista i told to myself: "holy cow! they've copied OSX and Sun's GlassFish project"

Vista to me has nothing new to offer really. I'm more excited in Mac OSX 10.5.

[Callysto]

My computer passed the Vista compatibility test so I was quite interested to see it in action! The first thing that happened was it took two hours to install! Then it ran like a dead donkey. Displaying the GUI was about the most I could do with it, and although I know it's in beta ( I have installed may beta OS's) and shouldn't really expect too much I had to let it go.

[sadiekiller]

Well, Windows is the most used operating system in the US and probably the world. In the US it holds 90% of computers. Based on that factor alone, it will take more than one OS upgrade that flops to kill that dominance.

look at Windows ME. that OS was the biggest hell hole of a system i have ever seen, and microsoft still holds a huge population. As much as I would love to switch over to OSX or Linux, most of the programs I use are only availiable on windows.

I do see more and more people with apple computers, but if you consider the majority of computer users to only really need word proscessing, internet browsing, and E-mail, then most users now see no reason to have to buy a whole new copmputer. Not only that, but Vista actually has some nice upgrades and nothing that I can see now that would kill it for anyone, even if the "new" designs are totaly ripping off apple.

[AppleLegal]

REVENGE, on Jul 9 2006, 04:43 PM, said:

Vista will be shiit filler material between what I would describe as the 'legacy generation' Windows XP, and the 'next generation' Windows Codename Vienna.

Look up Fiji

kev4e15, on Jul 9 2006, 07:44 PM, said:

The computer industry is totally dominated by Windows and it will stay that way for probably forever.

Im sure that in the 1970's, people thought that Ma Bell would be around forever.  

buglamp, on Jul 9 2006, 09:48 PM, said:

Vista will make OSX its bitch.

However Vista is the 600lb biker that OSX doesnt want to mess with.  Bottem line is its crap.  So you have to buy more crap to use it (note.  some crap my be well designed).  On the Bright Side ->  now the other %95 of the computing industry has somthing other then gray to look at.

Edit:  I would be interested to see what would happen if redhat or novell actually spent 50 million on a 3d accelerated GUI.

1. Proof?

2. Not really - if Apple didnt want to "mess" with MS as you so nicely put it, then they wouldnt have switched to the x86 arch, they wouldnt have continued to make the OS.  Oh, and the "grey" as you so nicely put it, has been blue for the past 7 years.

3. XGL?

MrDee, on Jul 9 2006, 11:06 PM, said:

At the same time, I show them OS X x86 and the response is 'Whats that, Apple?', 'What does that do? 'Oh, Zeen'. Aqua just does not generate the level of interest as AERO Glass, just the fact that you are able to create such an effect has caused a deep connection with many users based on my experience.

Of course, Apple beat Microsoft with Search a feature that was greatly touted at PDC 2003, but Microsoft did make up for it in the interim with Windows Desktop Search. Vista is coming with many consumer features, from a Consumer and Developer perspective, Windows Presentation and Communication Foundations, better search and organization capabilities, applications that help you better manage and create content, Photo Gallery, MovieMaker 6.0, communication through Windows Meeting Spaces, an awesome media player and a whole lot more. Security is one aspect by itself, out of the box you are more secure because of the Standard account, no one runs as root Admin. Other features and technologies you can add to the list include Media Center, Tablet PC and 64-bit, those three have yet to prove themselves on OS X.

That's cause Apple's had that stuff in for years - people expect it from them.  With MS, its a "fancy new feature."

All the programs you just described? ever hear of iLife?

Security features? what security - you dont need to be admin to disable User Access Controls to get rid of the "no one runs on root". Besides - that was messed up as well.  Who wants to press "ok" 7 times to delete a desktop icon, let alone 50 times to install a driver or program.

TabletPC? Who actually uses that? really - i've never seen anyone use  one outside a commercial for dell.

[fOZf8]

One of my closest friends uses a tablet, works for him so thats fine by me...

regardless, PERSONALLY, they're are many things I love about Vista (and XP) as well as OS X...there are also many things I hate about both, and many many things both do by default that drive me crazy. Both have bugs, both have security issues, yet I fully enjoy using both. The main reasons I use a windows based PC far more often than OSX though, are that there are just far more user community based people coding cool freeware audio and video utilities and the like that I use constantly.

In the end, for MOST end-users, it only comes down to what they already KNOW and are familiar with, which is why Vista will not fail. The only chance for Apple to seriously contend with Vista is to either start selling their Macs cheaper, and at mainstream retail locations like best-buy, circuit-city etc, OR start redistributing OS X to other vendors like Dell, HP, and Gateway. Maybe they could come out on top far down the line without doing this, but if they don't do this, they won't have a chance against Vista...it'll be the same as it has been, charge more $$ for more updates and keep treading water.

[MacSpaces]

osx is a beatiful operating system
but how advanced is it when you have to buy remote desktop seprately, doesnt have a defrag feature no system restore and a whole lot of {censored} that can simply a simpletons life in the cpmputer world? and the whole drag into the trash to remove software doesnt work all that great files from the software still remain on your system-whatever happed to a buillt in add/remove program list? no we have t oshell out money for that strip mac os x of its gui glory and what do you have? EXACTLY

now i may be wrong with what i said above im not 100% mac but 100 million+ people in this world probably feel just like me....i know im not the only one do i see apple really gaining ground? maybe, do i see apple overtaking microsoft completely not really.

banks
corporations
goverments
hospitals
small bussiness etc all rely on windows do you think they are willing to give up their structure for a beatiful gui? A closed application scheme and limited hardware?
in the medical field they teahc how to use windows and a {censored} load of careers do the same not mac.


the world is used to windows and what it offers at the end of the day that suck ass company we all love to hate owns your bussiness and your home. And for people to ge tused to a complete diffrent way of handling things means disaster..apple should still have the think diffrent campaign thats all you can really do with apple nothing else.

[The Big O]

About this Aero glass thing...it looks neat, but I don't see what all the fuss is about. Sure, sex sells, and this is the sex part of the new Windows. This is what the ads will show. This is what people will talk about. Because, when everything is said and done, they want something sexy.

This is why people buy flat screen plasmas and LCDs that don't offer the resolution that DLP or LcoS TVs do. The flats look sexy, and sex sells.

However, away from Aero Vista looks, and from what I can tell, feels like the Mac OS. This glass thing doesn't seem like it's a huge leap, and I expect something from Apple similar very soon, if not as a surprise in the new OS 10.5. Microsoft played a card, and now it's up to SteveO to see if he'll see Bill, and raise him, or just call. I'm betting on a raise.

MYself, I don't even own a Mac. I plan on it, but right now I'm stuck in XP land and using the FlyAKiteOSX theme thingy.  I'm going to wait until the Core Duo 2 chips ship in the Macs, then I'll step up regardless of Vista. I'm over Windows and ready to move on like a guy coming out of a bad relationship.

I'll tell you one thing, I'm a Business Systems Analyst at a pension fund. I work with most of the IT staff and they just last week got the final batch of floor users moved from 2000 to XP. They are not looking to move to VIsta any time soon, and I can't say I blame them.

-Big O

[netzen7]

Frankly, M$ has been at the right place at the right time.  XP was a logical improvement, retirement of the old 9X core, which stunk so bad people were desperate to upgrade.  XP works for most, and I really think the majority are content.  There is no need to upgrade, other than marketing M$ does to try and create the need.

Vista stinks.  It isn't about the end user, it isn't about feature rich computing. IMO,  it is about restrictions and simplification (at the injection of extreme complexity) all in an attempt to fatten an already fat bottom line.  An attempted transformation to a service oriented pay as you go model.  Sort of like leasing vs. buying in some respects.

Will it succeed.  Yes.  Will it grow at the rate M$ intends? NO.  Will Apple take over the world, of course not.  Will they gain market share, yes.  Will Linux do the same, yes.  XGL and Compiz rock BTW, if you haven't had a chance to play with it, do, it is amazing running on modest machinery.  Another innovative company, Novell, is to thank.  They and Apple are pushing the industry forward, consistently.  M$ is still trying to take other people's ideas and package them as their own.  Sort of like trying to build a new car out of used parts.

When you are at the top their is no place to go but down.  When you are at the top and have broken the law, repeatedly with some consequence, you may go down faster than some think possible.

I know where my stock investments are (not)  going - and Vista isn't changing that.  I don't think we will ever see another Windoze 95, timed with the explosive start of the commercial Internet.  M$ won the defacto PC market not because they were better at anything technical.  They were better at business, that is for sure. Now, the boom is over, and people are settling in with computers doing what computers do.  Tolerance of substandard product is lessening, thank goodness.

[xtraa]

My point of view is that vista really has improvements, for example it is more healthy,
you wont get any eye-cancer anymore, if you see the gui and... err... lets be serious

What makes me really sceptical about the whole thing is: will it keep, what the eyecandy
promise us? They _again_ copied so much features and little nifty things from X- no prob
with that, copying is a part of evolution, but will it be just a "one hit eyecandy wonder" for
the first hours? It is still Windows, and I think the main problems will still be there.

Take the new rights-management for example. I think it was everything else but easy to
implement that functionality in Vista. Just because it wasn't made for it, because the
whole OS structure is upsidedown. So is media implementation and the new gui.

I mean - it works, but is it lean and slick? Or is it Mediaplayer 10 bloatware under an aero
skin?

I am so sceptical about the whole thing. (Not to talk about the DRM stuff).

[buglamp]

If OSX didnt have an aternative to the VI program,  I wouldnt use it.  Windows contines to dominate the market because geeks wont give up VI. Damn you geeks,  Damn you and your VI.

Also,  If Apple was as cool as the musicians who use there products,  They'd invest 50 million into the Wine Project.  http://darwine.opendarwin.org/

[Alessandro17]

MacSpaces, on Jul 10 2006, 11:18 PM, said:

osx is a beatiful operating system
but how advanced is it when you have to buy remote desktop seprately, doesnt have a defrag feature no system restore and a whole lot of {censored} that can simply a simpletons life in the cpmputer world? and the whole drag into the trash to remove software doesnt work all that great files from the software still remain on your system-whatever happed to a buillt in add/remove program list? no we have t oshell out money for that strip mac os x of its gui glory and what do you have? EXACTLY

A *nix OS doesn't need to be defragged.
System restore? It is not that great, it has never saved my skin when I was seriously in trouble. Backups are much better, IMO.
Yes, I do miss a "proper" package manager, but more something in the line of Debian apt than in the line of MS add/remove program.
Having used Linux much more than Windows, I can say that Mac OS X is Linux become perfection, even if from many points of view Linux is more flexible, has more features and even more apps. But what good is all that when all the major distros are buggy as hell (at the moment)?

[buglamp]

Breaking News!!!!

"While many Windows programs may work with the Mac version of CrossOver Office, CodeWeavers will support only a handful. These are likely to include Microsoft Project, Microsoft Outlook and the Windows-only game Half-Life 2, White said."

HL2 for MAC!!!

Sick!!!!

[Takuro]

I think Vista is going to suck comparatively to XP. But that still doesn't matter. The facts are:

1) If you walked down the street and asked most people what OS X Leopard was, you'd get the reply "What?"

2) Microsoft will get tons of media hype for any major OS release, not matter how crappy it will be

3) People will eventually have to upgrade as some programs become Vista-only. Two years after XP, you really couldn't stick with Win 98.

4) People will love the new eye-candy, but those same people probably never saw OS X before.

5) They're Microsoft...

Will it suck: Yes
Will it be a success: Yep

[Alessandro17]

Having tried Vista beta 2, I can only ask myself: will they ever be able to make it a reasonably stable OS? It has crashed beyond repair immediately after installing an antivirus or trying to download updates.
Is Vista a necessity? I believe it is. Hardware improves at an incredible fast rate, but softare in general improves very slowly. Still using XP, a 5 year old OS? Come on!
One of the main reason for Vista to exist is better 64bit support, IMO.
The worst MS mistake? Their obsession with backwards compatibility.