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My computer passed the Vista compatibility test so I was quite interested to see it in action! The first thing that happened was it took two hours to install! Then it ran like a dead donkey. Displaying the GUI was about the most I could do with it, and although I know it's in beta ( I have installed may beta OS's) and shouldn't really expect too much I had to let it go.

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sorry i skipped the last page, forgive me if this was mentioned...

I dont think its a matter of windows VS OSX. there is still less than 5% of people around the world using os x. the number is incressing but it wont calll it a threat to windows..maybe it might have something to do with the price.......

i dont know if microsoft knows this but, but microsoft is it own competitor...it would be a case of Windows XP VS Windows Vista....and righ now i cant think of any good reason to even bother upgrading to windows vista...not like its offering any innovative user interface experience.

Guest Guest: Luke_*

In my oppinion it will take at least an year before Vista becomes really popular. Besides there was never before such a major raise in the hardware demand, introduced by the next-windows-version and this will additionaly delay it's acceptance from the customers. At the same time I don't think Linux's XGL & Sun's Looking Glass will develop to that extend to become an alternative. Although I hope I'm wrong. The PC & software manifacturers will put all their effort to propose their Vista compatible products and will delay any other OS support...as usual.


Regarding Mac OS...well, it was just too closed & unpopular (outside US of course) so far. Of course now it's the right time to change that as the only real alternative to the users! I see it already here in Europe that the marketing campaign is really good and speeding up. The people seem really interested in it. What I can see as a successful market share is the laptops' one - there Mac has great opportunities and can profit immediately. Just prices should drop a bit - now the products I think are overpriced for what they offer.

As a platform Mac is still too expensive and closed in means of hardware and software.

Well, Windows is the most used operating system in the US and probably the world. In the US it holds 90% of computers. Based on that factor alone, it will take more than one OS upgrade that flops to kill that dominance.


look at Windows ME. that OS was the biggest hell hole of a system i have ever seen, and microsoft still holds a huge population. As much as I would love to switch over to OSX or Linux, most of the programs I use are only availiable on windows.


I do see more and more people with apple computers, but if you consider the majority of computer users to only really need word proscessing, internet browsing, and E-mail, then most users now see no reason to have to buy a whole new copmputer. Not only that, but Vista actually has some nice upgrades and nothing that I can see now that would kill it for anyone, even if the "new" designs are totaly ripping off apple.

Vista will be shiit filler material between what I would describe as the 'legacy generation' Windows XP, and the 'next generation' Windows Codename Vienna.

Look up Fiji


The computer industry is totally dominated by Windows and it will stay that way for probably forever.

Im sure that in the 1970's, people thought that Ma Bell would be around forever.


Vista will make OSX its {censored}.


However Vista is the 600lb biker that OSX doesnt want to mess with. Bottem line is its {censored}. So you have to buy more {censored} to use it (note. some {censored} my be well designed). On the Bright Side -> now the other %95 of the computing industry has somthing other then gray to look at.


Edit: I would be interested to see what would happen if redhat or novell actually spent 50 million on a 3d accelerated GUI.

1. Proof?


2. Not really - if Apple didnt want to "mess" with MS as you so nicely put it, then they wouldnt have switched to the x86 arch, they wouldnt have continued to make the OS. Oh, and the "grey" as you so nicely put it, has been blue for the past 7 years.


3. XGL?


At the same time, I show them OS X x86 and the response is 'Whats that, Apple?', 'What does that do? 'Oh, Zeen'. Aqua just does not generate the level of interest as AERO Glass, just the fact that you are able to create such an effect has caused a deep connection with many users based on my experience.


Of course, Apple beat Microsoft with Search a feature that was greatly touted at PDC 2003, but Microsoft did make up for it in the interim with Windows Desktop Search. Vista is coming with many consumer features, from a Consumer and Developer perspective, Windows Presentation and Communication Foundations, better search and organization capabilities, applications that help you better manage and create content, Photo Gallery, MovieMaker 6.0, communication through Windows Meeting Spaces, an awesome media player and a whole lot more. Security is one aspect by itself, out of the box you are more secure because of the Standard account, no one runs as root Admin. Other features and technologies you can add to the list include Media Center, Tablet PC and 64-bit, those three have yet to prove themselves on OS X.

That's cause Apple's had that stuff in for years - people expect it from them. With MS, its a "fancy new feature."


All the programs you just described? ever hear of iLife?


Security features? what security - you dont need to be admin to disable User Access Controls to get rid of the "no one runs on root". Besides - that was messed up as well. Who wants to press "ok" 7 times to delete a desktop icon, let alone 50 times to install a driver or program.


TabletPC? Who actually uses that? really - i've never seen anyone use one outside a commercial for dell.

One of my closest friends uses a tablet, works for him so thats fine by me...


regardless, PERSONALLY, they're are many things I love about Vista (and XP) as well as OS X...there are also many things I hate about both, and many many things both do by default that drive me crazy. Both have bugs, both have security issues, yet I fully enjoy using both. The main reasons I use a windows based PC far more often than OSX though, are that there are just far more user community based people coding cool freeware audio and video utilities and the like that I use constantly.


In the end, for MOST end-users, it only comes down to what they already KNOW and are familiar with, which is why Vista will not fail. The only chance for Apple to seriously contend with Vista is to either start selling their Macs cheaper, and at mainstream retail locations like best-buy, circuit-city etc, OR start redistributing OS X to other vendors like Dell, HP, and Gateway. Maybe they could come out on top far down the line without doing this, but if they don't do this, they won't have a chance against Vista...it'll be the same as it has been, charge more $$ for more updates and keep treading water.

osx is a beatiful operating system

but how advanced is it when you have to buy remote desktop seprately, doesnt have a defrag feature no system restore and a whole lot of {censored} that can simply a simpletons life in the cpmputer world? and the whole drag into the trash to remove software doesnt work all that great files from the software still remain on your system-whatever happed to a buillt in add/remove program list? no we have t oshell out money for that strip mac os x of its gui glory and what do you have? EXACTLY


now i may be wrong with what i said above im not 100% mac but 100 million+ people in this world probably feel just like me....i know im not the only one do i see apple really gaining ground? maybe, do i see apple overtaking microsoft completely not really.






small bussiness etc all rely on windows do you think they are willing to give up their structure for a beatiful gui? A closed application scheme and limited hardware?

in the medical field they teahc how to use windows and a {censored} load of careers do the same not mac.



the world is used to windows and what it offers at the end of the day that suck ass company we all love to hate owns your bussiness and your home. And for people to ge tused to a complete diffrent way of handling things means disaster..apple should still have the think diffrent campaign thats all you can really do with apple nothing else.

About this Aero glass thing...it looks neat, but I don't see what all the fuss is about. Sure, sex sells, and this is the sex part of the new Windows. This is what the ads will show. This is what people will talk about. Because, when everything is said and done, they want something sexy.


This is why people buy flat screen plasmas and LCDs that don't offer the resolution that DLP or LcoS TVs do. The flats look sexy, and sex sells.


However, away from Aero Vista looks, and from what I can tell, feels like the Mac OS. This glass thing doesn't seem like it's a huge leap, and I expect something from Apple similar very soon, if not as a surprise in the new OS 10.5. Microsoft played a card, and now it's up to SteveO to see if he'll see Bill, and raise him, or just call. I'm betting on a raise.


MYself, I don't even own a Mac. I plan on it, but right now I'm stuck in XP land and using the FlyAKiteOSX theme thingy. I'm going to wait until the Core Duo 2 chips ship in the Macs, then I'll step up regardless of Vista. I'm over Windows and ready to move on like a guy coming out of a bad relationship.


I'll tell you one thing, I'm a Business Systems Analyst at a pension fund. I work with most of the IT staff and they just last week got the final batch of floor users moved from 2000 to XP. They are not looking to move to VIsta any time soon, and I can't say I blame them.


-Big O

Frankly, M$ has been at the right place at the right time. XP was a logical improvement, retirement of the old 9X core, which stunk so bad people were desperate to upgrade. XP works for most, and I really think the majority are content. There is no need to upgrade, other than marketing M$ does to try and create the need.


Vista stinks. It isn't about the end user, it isn't about feature rich computing. IMO, it is about restrictions and simplification (at the injection of extreme complexity) all in an attempt to fatten an already fat bottom line. An attempted transformation to a service oriented pay as you go model. Sort of like leasing vs. buying in some respects.


Will it succeed. Yes. Will it grow at the rate M$ intends? NO. Will Apple take over the world, of course not. Will they gain market share, yes. Will Linux do the same, yes. XGL and Compiz rock BTW, if you haven't had a chance to play with it, do, it is amazing running on modest machinery. Another innovative company, Novell, is to thank. They and Apple are pushing the industry forward, consistently. M$ is still trying to take other people's ideas and package them as their own. Sort of like trying to build a new car out of used parts.


When you are at the top their is no place to go but down. When you are at the top and have broken the law, repeatedly with some consequence, you may go down faster than some think possible.


I know where my stock investments are (not) going - and Vista isn't changing that. I don't think we will ever see another Windoze 95, timed with the explosive start of the commercial Internet. M$ won the defacto PC market not because they were better at anything technical. They were better at business, that is for sure. Now, the boom is over, and people are settling in with computers doing what computers do. Tolerance of substandard product is lessening, thank goodness.

My point of view is that vista really has improvements, for example it is more healthy,

you wont get any eye-cancer anymore, if you see the gui and... err... lets be serious :D


What makes me really sceptical about the whole thing is: will it keep, what the eyecandy

promise us? They _again_ copied so much features and little nifty things from X- no prob

with that, copying is a part of evolution, but will it be just a "one hit eyecandy wonder" for

the first hours? It is still Windows, and I think the main problems will still be there.


Take the new rights-management for example. I think it was everything else but easy to

implement that functionality in Vista. Just because it wasn't made for it, because the

whole OS structure is upsidedown. So is media implementation and the new gui.


I mean - it works, but is it lean and slick? Or is it Mediaplayer 10 bloatware under an aero



I am so sceptical about the whole thing. (Not to talk about the DRM stuff).

osx is a beatiful operating system

but how advanced is it when you have to buy remote desktop seprately, doesnt have a defrag feature no system restore and a whole lot of {censored} that can simply a simpletons life in the cpmputer world? and the whole drag into the trash to remove software doesnt work all that great files from the software still remain on your system-whatever happed to a buillt in add/remove program list? no we have t oshell out money for that strip mac os x of its gui glory and what do you have? EXACTLY


A *nix OS doesn't need to be defragged.

System restore? It is not that great, it has never saved my skin when I was seriously in trouble. Backups are much better, IMO.

Yes, I do miss a "proper" package manager, but more something in the line of Debian apt than in the line of MS add/remove program.

Having used Linux much more than Windows, I can say that Mac OS X is Linux become perfection, even if from many points of view Linux is more flexible, has more features and even more apps. But what good is all that when all the major distros are buggy as hell (at the moment)?

Breaking News!!!!


"While many Windows programs may work with the Mac version of CrossOver Office, CodeWeavers will support only a handful. These are likely to include Microsoft Project, Microsoft Outlook and the Windows-only game Half-Life 2, White said."


HL2 for MAC!!!



I think Vista is going to suck comparatively to XP. But that still doesn't matter. The facts are:


1) If you walked down the street and asked most people what OS X Leopard was, you'd get the reply "What?"


2) Microsoft will get tons of media hype for any major OS release, not matter how crappy it will be


3) People will eventually have to upgrade as some programs become Vista-only. Two years after XP, you really couldn't stick with Win 98.


4) People will love the new eye-candy, but those same people probably never saw OS X before.


5) They're Microsoft...


Will it suck: Yes

Will it be a success: Yep

Having tried Vista beta 2, I can only ask myself: will they ever be able to make it a reasonably stable OS? It has crashed beyond repair immediately after installing an antivirus or trying to download updates.

Is Vista a necessity? I believe it is. Hardware improves at an incredible fast rate, but softare in general improves very slowly. Still using XP, a 5 year old OS? Come on!

One of the main reason for Vista to exist is better 64bit support, IMO.

The worst MS mistake? Their obsession with backwards compatibility.

You know what would really suck? If we all had to buy Macs. Kiss Overclocking, Modding etc... good by and say hello to DRM, Steve JObs and overpriced everything.


I think the UN should make an OS that works with everything. Call it UNOS and spend the profits on feeding hungry kids and finding sustainable renuable energy.


Edit: Or have we all forgotten about feeding hungry kids and finding sustainable renuable energy in light of our stupid useless technology that cant even play quake 4 cause the stupid spec said 9.0b instead of 9.0c?

Here's where I think apple will start to win, but they'll never do it. Allow in the clones. Until then, Microsoft will continue to win because when one manufacturer sets the prices of their products and doesn't allow any flexibility, that's where you don't have a huge market share. It's always the manufacturers that allow retail stores and online stores to compete, is where a product or type of product can dominate the market place. That's the simple truth.


When I can buy a retail copy of mac os x to run on a pc that I've built myself, that apple allows, then apple's share will grow. But other then that. It won't happen.


Besides, Mac's are closer to appliances. Which is why they work so well. And why they will always keep their niche status.


Oh and one more thing. They also have that arrogance that they should charge more because they're better. Not because they actually cost more to make. Just that they think they're better. And Steve Jobs has said that himself.

Guest Guest

I say Vista sucks. It makes XP look like the next step! The worst part is that practically no previous (XP) drivers work in Vista!


If Apple makes some good development choices for Leopard I'd like to say that Apple will tear Windows apart. OSX will soon be the OS of choice, and if Apple sells the OS apart from it's computers (at a premium price, of course) they'd secure that position for good....

Guest Guest
When I can buy a retail copy of mac os x to run on a pc that I've built myself, that apple allows, then apple's share will grow. But other then that. It won't happen.


If I had a dime for every time I've seen this statement or something similar to it, such as "Gee whiz, if Apple would only market OSX they'd get richer", etc... I wouldn't need to work.


The fact remains that Apple will never license OSX to end users that aren't using MACS. Why? Because Apple is a HARDWARE company. Most of Apples profits come from the computers they sell. If every Tom {censored} and Harry out there were installing OSX (legally) on their computers, then Apple would have tons of new support, driver and tech issues to contend with, which totally kills what Apple is all about - some guy said it well in a previous post; Apple computers are like appliances. They just work.


So anyway since I'm here, here's my view on the Vista/OSX comparison.


I don't really give a {censored}. Some guy said in a previous post that the argument is stupid. I agree. The thing is, as has already been said several times, is that MS dominates the computer world. Whether or not their OS sucks balls or totally kicks ass, doesn't matter. After a couple years, you'll be forced to use it, that is unless you're a non-gaming mac user. Which brings me to OSX - It's pleasant to look at. The dock is nice, and the apps are just stellar .....but hey isn't that what an OS should be? Am I onto something here? Look. Bottom line is this - Both OS's have their strong and weak points. I'm not going to list them, cause you all know what they are. Personally I like the idea of being able to use both in harmony, that way I get a full computer experience. So therefore when I save up 2500 I'm getting an imac and setting up dual boot.


Best regards,


Guest Guest
I say Vista sucks. It makes XP look like the next step! The worst part is that practically no previous (XP) drivers work in Vista!


Duh! Vista is in BETA! It's not fair to compare a finished product to a beta.

sincerely i don't care of which will be the OS of the future, I'm comfortable with linux OSX and Windows, I work in CGI and nowadays almost everything I need I have it in all OS. Windows Is better than OSX in video editing tx to AVID software which is much better than Final Cut. OSX is clearly superior in security because is virus/spyware free. OSX has protools and DVD Studio pro in its score. And Linux is Free in all senses also is very secure and has very good performance In all apps I use. Maya, Softimage, Shake, Blender and so on

The only "but" is that there's no any pro video editor availiable for linux. Neither all Adobe apps of course. I hope this will change in future and I can use only Linux for all my work stuff.

Which one of you freakin admins deleted my post?

I should have guessed that thinking outside the box on another one of these useless exercise in futility based topics would get me nowhere

Windows Vista is just TOO much. The stupid contract that Apple and Microsoft has should never have been done. What about when the contract ends? Mac users with Windows Vista on their mac system will have to remove when the contract ends.


So I'm saying Windows Vista should NEVER EVER run on a Mac. The even worst thing is Apple switching to Intel processors.


I don't hate Macs. But I wish they would just keep on PPC technology and stay only supporting Mac. And, PCs should never be-able to use PPC and stick to Intel and AMD.


Dell, keep X off your computers and stay with XP or Vista.


Mircrosoft and Apple should be competitors again! Not contract signing sissies.


Who cares if Vista supports XP drivers? GO get XP ready systems from Dell or STAY with XP.


Get rid of that dot-matrix printer and get a Vista compatable printer and computer.


My $700 dell laptop is going to be 90% compatable with vista (10% is the graphics card)

Ok here is the deal. Assuming Apple runs its course in its current direction, OS X on Apple Hardware only. You have two things to consider.


The common statement is, "I have already spent tons of money on a Windows based machine, why would I run out and by an Apple."


And this is also a common question, "How will it run my <insert software title here>?" For example some ladies I know would benefit from an Apple, but they run this software they use with their sewing machines which only works in Windows. Sure there is boot camp and Parallels, but they don't want to mess with all that.


When 10.5 comes out, it will allow Windows Applications to be executed natively. However, I am hoping something is in the works to track and remove applications from the ability to run natively. I can see a whole can of worms opening because Windows based Malware is running on the Macs.


In short, if Apple has their OS running on white boxes and can run native Windows apps. The Apple OS would be a much better route to go. For someone who is purchasing a new PC, an Apple would be the way to go.

I read alot of the replies about this. With respect to if Vista will meet all of 'our' expectations of what a good Operating System should be; I think no it will not. All the reasons about why have already been mentioned and I don't need to repeat them.


With respect to if will be economically a succes for Microsoft; I think yes it will. Unlike most of us on this forum, most windows users and especially most of the people who might actually pay for windows do not sit on the internet and read reviews, and sift through websites, and actually try out different products. I doubt more than a small percentage of people have actually tried OSX, Linux, and Windows and have that ability to compare what we like and dislike in an OS.


The Average windows user will walk into BestBuy, look at Vista pre-installed on all the HP computers, notice the cool looking Aero GUI, they'll look at the microsoft stickers telling them it's faster, more reliable, and more secure, and decide that's what they want. This means they'll either get their internet savvy buddy to hook em up with a copy, buy a copy, or decide they want to upgrade computers soon (and trust me, if windows vista is out they will not want something with xp on it)


This works because if one things is apperently, even slightly better, and all others remain the same, most people will want then newer one if confronted with a choice.

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