Israel and Palestine

[yossicl]

Yossicl:

 

Even though he despised you, Hitler would be realy proud of what you say and what your people are doing!

 

You sure learned the from Nazism. But I think you guys learned the wrong lesson.

I’m only hop that GOD wills mercy on your soul.

[yossicl]

I will post this AGAIN, cause, i think ppl are discusing ideas, we should discuss humanity here.

 

please download it, its whats happening NOW in lebanon. just photos, real hard photos.

 

im no jew hater neither arab hater, just human.

Yes… humanity… right…

This is the reason that you didn’t post victim’s pictures of the Israeli citizen’s side?

Well… everyone with his moral cods…

[yossicl]

While I do agree with humans having their own moral code, I dont believe in anarchy, we do need law and order, but the problem is that morals arent cut and dry, theres almost no absolutes when it comes to morals, I think we run into the most problems when we try to make morals absolutes, the best we can do is what we have been doing, society would have turned out a similiar way without the help of religion. I dont have faith in god, but I do have faith in mankind, to eventually make the right decisions, were a good people, but a misguided people, and I emphasize this, STRICT RELIGIOUS RULES ARENT THE ANSWER. I propose laws be drawn up another way, whenever a conflict comes up, we run a myriad to studies and compare them to see if that act hurts the society or not, and if it doesnt, we allow it, and if it does, we make it against the law. A very simple way to derive laws, better than some idealisms (that I dont share) in a book.

We wouldnt have to do studies on murder and rape because we can already see that acts such as these DO hurt the society, but when something comes up like Homosexuality, where its a controversial topic, we run some studies and determine whether its a harm to the society or not, and if its not (which it isnt) you allow it. It sounds like a good moral code to me, actual scientific evidence to back up ones morals....maybe im just whacked out of my mind, but I dont think so

...Society would have turned out a similar way without the help of religion...

For many thousand and thousand of years it wasn’t happened!!!

So I think (or may I say I believe) that religion was giving the main push for that.

[killbot1000]

...Society would have turned out a similar way without the help of religion...

For many thousand and thousand of years it wasn’t happened!!!

So I think (or may I say I believe) that religion was giving the main push for that.

 

 

Im sorry, but I dont understand what you were trying to say here.

 

And if you say society would have turned out the same with our without religion, then what good has religion done us, from what youve said it doesnt seem to do us any good at all.

 

I dont know what you mean by "for many thousand and thousand of years it wasnt happened!!!"

 

I dont think religion has helped us as a society, all its done is two things, given us an excuse to kill our fellow humans, and given us monuments to long forgotten gods, such as a the pyramids (pharos), and mayan temples...

 

I think uncertainty is the best tool we can bestow upon our fellow human beings, if you are uncertain about a moral decision you will think about it, and eventually come to a decision after careful thought. If the answer is told to you (as it is in religion) one will act on it without thinking, and may possibly cause more harm than good.

 

I dont think people are born evil, or with sin, this is totally ridiculous to me, how can a baby have evil in them? Sure I hate them, because they cry and whine, but theyre not evil, evil is taught, and religion has a big part in the teaching of that evil.

[Mebster]

yossicl although the video you posted does seem worrying however the images posted by "aberracus" is so shocking and disturbing that I almost vomited. I am not kidding either. I almost threw up. I couldn't watch all them. Only around half.

The images of CHRILDREN (many babes) burned and shot in the head was too much for me to see.

 

I want to make it clear, I did not feel like throwing up because these images were of Muslim children. No. It was because they were of children. Shot and burned in the most brutal of ways. By an army who is said to be one of the most sophisticated of all armies. I remember 'accidentally' (yes accidentally) downloading a video clip of one of a US hostages being beheaded. And that was the only other time I had to run for the toilet. And that was in my uni. I was only able to watch around 10 seconds before I realised what it was and what was happening.

 

It saddens me even more knowing they are Muslim but most of all that they are children. Some shot in the head carefully. After seeing these I would certainly call Israelis actions terrorism. I am not arguing whether Hezbollah or others are or are not but I would certainly add Israel in the same category and at the top of it all.

 

I understand I am the only one who has seen the images (as the count is still 1) so I ask the rest of you to watch it also. And brace yourself.

 

Israeli Atrocities.zip (link to aberracus's link)

[killbot1000]

yossicl although the video you posted does seem worrying however the images posted by "aberracus" is so shocking and disturbing that I almost vomited. I am not kidding either. I almost threw up. I couldn't watch all them. Only around half.

The images of CHRILDREN (many babes) burned and shot in the head was too much for me to see.

 

I want to make it clear, I did not feel like throwing up because these images were of Muslim children. No. It was because they were of children. Shot and burned in the most brutal of ways. By an army who is said to be one of the most sophisticated of all armies. I remember 'accidentally' (yes accidentally) downloading a video clip of one of a US hostages being beheaded. And that was the only other time I had to run for the toilet. And that was in my uni. I was only able to watch around 10 seconds before I realised what it was and what was happening.

 

It saddens me even more knowing they are Muslim but most of all that they are children. Some shot in the head carefully. After seeing these I would certainly call Israelis actions terrorism. I am not arguing whether Hezbollah or others are or are not but I would certainly add Israel in the same category and at the top of it all.

 

I understand I am the only one who has seen the images (as the count is still 1) so I ask the rest of you to watch it also. And brace yourself.

 

Israeli Atrocities.zip (link to aberracus's link)

 

 

hehe man, I must be dead inside or something, I see these images, and theyre sad yes, but...inside...I dont really feel much, I know thats bad, but im just being honest

[yossicl]

yossicl although the video you posted does seem worrying however the images posted by "aberracus" is so shocking and disturbing that I almost vomited. I am not kidding either. I almost threw up. I couldn't watch all them. Only around half.

The images of CHRILDREN (many babes) burned and shot in the head was too much for me to see.

 

I want to make it clear, I did not feel like throwing up because these images were of Muslim children. No. It was because they were of children. Shot and burned in the most brutal of ways. By an army who is said to be one of the most sophisticated of all armies. I remember 'accidentally' (yes accidentally) downloading a video clip of one of a US hostages being beheaded. And that was the only other time I had to run for the toilet. And that was in my uni. I was only able to watch around 10 seconds before I realised what it was and what was happening.

 

It saddens me even more knowing they are Muslim but most of all that they are children. Some shot in the head carefully. After seeing these I would certainly call Israelis actions terrorism. I am not arguing whether Hezbollah or others are or are not but I would certainly add Israel in the same category and at the top of it all.

 

I understand I am the only one who has seen the images (as the count is still 1) so I ask the rest of you to watch it also. And brace yourself.

 

Israeli Atrocities.zip (link to aberracus's link)

I saw the pictures too and I’m agreeing with you that they are hard and can’t be seeing.

But pleas let me ask you some questions.

What would you do when your neighbors kidnap your children, kills your children & your baby, kills your wife, you brothers, your sisters, your father, your mother, launching & dropping missile & bombing your house & your property, kills your friends & all of that without provocation from you. And he used & hides between civilians (that part of them let him to do this).

Would you sit back your chair and do nothing?

Do you let him killing you?

Do you let him to destroying you?

Do you let him to annihilating you?

What most important to you your children & your baby or his children & his baby?

I never justify killing any kind of humans but I’m asking you be honest and tell me what would you do?

[Mebster]

hehe man, I must be dead inside or something, I see these images, and theyre sad yes, but...inside...I dont really feel much, I know thats bad, but im just being honest

You are dead inside. And after seeing the images of dead children killed in ways unimaginable, hehe is just as worrying a comment as are the images themselves.

 

EDIT: and this from the guy with the high morals. Worries me that your morals don't invoke any feelings. I would call them high morals. Not even medium. And you don't need to be religious to feel sorry for those children.

I saw the pictures too and I’m agreeing with you that they are hard and can’t be seeing.

But pleas let me ask you some questions.

What would you do when your neighbors kidnap your children, kills your children & your baby, kills your wife, you brothers, your sisters, your father, your mother, launching & dropping missile & bombing your house & your property, kills your friends & all of that without provocation from you. And he used & hides between civilians (that part of them let him to do this).

Would you sit back your chair and do nothing?

Do you let him killing you?

Do you let him to destroying you?

Do you let him to annihilating you?

What most important to you your children & your baby or his children & his baby?

I never justify killing any kind of humans but I’m asking you be honest and tell me what would you do?

I am not saying nothing should be done by Israelis to defend themselves. But what i am saying is that they Israeli military is brutal in its attacks. More brutal i would say than the factions in Palestine. Simply because they have more powerful weapons and choose to use them on children knowing it is on a child.

 

Remember, a soldier was eventually found guilty of murdering a British civilian aid-worker who was covering Palestinian orphans with his own body only then to get shot in the head by an Israeli guard. It was later found that the Israeli military was trying to suppress what happened and protect the guard. But the pressure built on the guard and eventually he owned up himself about what he did. If the shot fired at the air-worker had missed him, it would have hit a child. But it didn't. The Israeli military are one of the best trained and so is why the bullet entered the aid-workers head. Just as it enters other children’s heads.

[yossicl]

...I am not saying nothing should be done by Israelis to defend themselves. But what i am saying is that they Israeli military is brutal in its attacks. More brutal i would say than the factions in Palestine. Simply because they have more powerful weapons and choose to use them on children knowing it is on a child.

 

Remember, a soldier was eventually found guilty of murdering a British civilian aid-worker who was covering Palestinian orphans with his own body only then to get shot in the head by an Israeli guard. It was later found that the Israeli military was trying to suppress what happened and protect the guard. But the pressure built on the guard and eventually he owned up himself about what he did. If the shot fired at the air-worker had missed him, it would have hit a child. But it didn't. The Israeli military are one of the best trained and so is why the bullet entered the aid-workers head. Just as it enters other children’s heads.

I didn’t ask you what should be done by Israelis to defend themselves (it’s obviously they know what they are doing).

 

I’m asked you what would you do?

 

Don’t try to evade or twisting answering because you don’t have as u1m2 done on my previous questions post #262 http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=162986.

[killbot1000]

You are dead inside. And after seeing the images of dead children killed in ways unimaginable, hehe is just as worrying a comment as are the images themselves.

 

EDIT: and this from the guy with the high morals. Worries me that your morals don't invoke any feelings. I would call them high morals. Not even medium. And you don't need to be religious to feel sorry for those children.

 

I am not saying nothing should be done by Israelis to defend themselves. But what i am saying is that they Israeli military is brutal in its attacks. More brutal i would say than the factions in Palestine. Simply because they have more powerful weapons and choose to use them on children knowing it is on a child.

 

Remember, a soldier was eventually found guilty of murdering a British civilian aid-worker who was covering Palestinian orphans with his own body only then to get shot in the head by an Israeli guard. It was later found that the Israeli military was trying to suppress what happened and protect the guard. But the pressure built on the guard and eventually he owned up himself about what he did. If the shot fired at the air-worker had missed him, it would have hit a child. But it didn't. The Israeli military are one of the best trained and so is why the bullet entered the aid-workers head. Just as it enters other children’s heads.

 

I am sorry for the children, but, not to the point of vomiting, im just the kind of person that is a little emotionally withdrawn, I still have feelings, I know whats right, and I want to do that, Im just a bit desensitized, because ive seen it all before, guaranteed id be affected if I saw it in real life, but a picture doesnt really do much for me...

[james2mart]

Not to mention the fact that we don't know where these pictures came from....

[Mebster]

Not to mention the fact that we don't know where these pictures came from....

What the heck does that matter? That is so cold, coming from a Christian. So unJesus like.

 

yossicl it's clear the Israelis don't know what they need to do to defend themselves because they are doing a {censored} poor job about it. One of the strongest armies in world got its ass kick soo bad, it's embarrassing. Hezbollah even a 3 weeks into the confrontation was able to shower down more rockets than it had ever done showing the world it was no where near defeated. As Kofi Annan said to the world Israel had killed more children than fighters. On the other hand the number of Israeli soldiers being killed kept growing as the war went on. And this by a group of people whose infrastructure was being blown up around them. Whose fellow fighters were being shot from the skies.

 

If one Army can do this to the powerful Israel army then Israel should be very afraid and watch how it is viewed in the area. It's almost unimaginable the amount of support that has built up against Israel during the last few weeks. I only wish they had attacked Syria or Iran. LOL. Given the battering little old Hezbollah with their very little ammunition gave Israel, Iran and Syria would have almost certainly finished them off.

 

Many of you kept telling saying how powerful Israel is and well.... we can all see now that Israel entered a war thinking confidently it would crush it's opponent with it's overwhelming might, as did the rest of the world. Things certainly turned out different. Has given me a sense of respect for Hezbollah that I never had.

[killbot1000]

What the heck does that matter? That is so cold, coming from a Christian. So unJesus like.

 

Im gonna have to go ahead and agree with you there, it doesnt matter whether these are muslim children, jewish children, or christian children, I think the important thing is that they ARE children, I think thats what aceplayer is trying to say unless Im mistaken, and I totally agree with him

[Mebster]

I was. I didn't see any holding the Qur’an to show they are Muslim. And anyway it doesn't matter to Muslims as all Children are equal. We don't take the Jewish belief that if your born of a Jewish mother then you are Jewish. All children are equal. And the images are of Babies also. Who cares if they are Jew, Christian or Muslim.

I am expecting you to come back with some attack on me or Muslims as that seems to be your style. Who cares anyway. Do whatever you want. Or say whatever you want. Comments like that above I just better to be ignored.

[james2mart]

What the heck does that matter? That is so cold, coming from a Christian. So unJesus like.

 

 

Im gonna have to go ahead and agree with you there, it doesnt matter whether these are muslim children, jewish children, or christian children, I think the important thing is that they ARE children, I think thats what aceplayer is trying to say unless Im mistaken, and I totally agree with him

 

While I am NOT blind and can see that these are children, I have trouble having complete faith that these pictures are the real deal. If you have been watching/reading the news, you would know that journalists have been doctoring photos. I saw something on TV that showed two pictures side by side, one was claimed to have come from Israel, and one from Hezbollah. Two entirely different bomb scenes, but the same woman (in the same clothes) was in both of them, facing the camera. Don't get me wrong, I know that this stuff is happening, and its a shame that it is, but I'm not going to trust any photos of it unless they are straight off a reliable source.

[killbot1000]

While I am NOT blind and can see that these are children, I have trouble having complete faith that these pictures are the real deal. If you have been watching/reading the news, you would know that journalists have been doctoring photos. I saw something on TV that showed two pictures side by side, one was claimed to have come from Israel, and one from Hezbollah. Two entirely different bomb scenes, but the same woman (in the same clothes) was in both of them, facing the camera. Don't get me wrong, I know that this stuff is happening, and its a shame that it is, but I'm not going to trust any photos of it unless they are straight off a reliable source.

 

 

Quit fooling yourself, the photos are real...well, im 99% sure theyre real, I could always be wrong though

[Mebster]

While I am NOT blind and can see that these are children, I have trouble having complete faith that these pictures are the real deal. If you have been watching/reading the news, you would know that journalists have been doctoring photos. I saw something on TV that showed two pictures side by side, one was claimed to have come from Israel, and one from Hezbollah. Two entirely different bomb scenes, but the same woman (in the same clothes) was in both of them, facing the camera. Don't get me wrong, I know that this stuff is happening, and its a shame that it is, but I'm not going to trust any photos of it unless they are straight off a reliable source.

 

What is with this guy? Seems to me the only way you would believe this is the real deal is if you were there seeing the babies get burned with your own eyes.

 

If you were blind you would have a defence. But you just seem like you dislike anyone from that region as they are Muslims. The deaths of Children don’t seem to get you in any way because they are Muslim children. All you want is proof.

[yossicl]

yossicl it's clear the Israelis don't know what they need to do to defend themselves because they are doing a {censored} poor job about it. One of the strongest armies in world got its ass kick soo bad, it's embarrassing. Hezbollah even a 3 weeks into the confrontation was able to shower down more rockets than it had ever done showing the world it was no where near defeated. As Kofi Annan said to the world Israel had killed more children than fighters. On the other hand the number of Israeli soldiers being killed kept growing as the war went on. And this by a group of people whose infrastructure was being blown up around them. Whose fellow fighters were being shot from the skies.

 

If one Army can do this to the powerful Israel army then Israel should be very afraid and watch how it is viewed in the area. It's almost unimaginable the amount of support that has built up against Israel during the last few weeks. I only wish they had attacked Syria or Iran. LOL. Given the battering little old Hezbollah with their very little ammunition gave Israel, Iran and Syria would have almost certainly finished them off.

 

Many of you kept telling saying how powerful Israel is and well.... we can all see now that Israel entered a war thinking confidently it would crush it's opponent with it's overwhelming might, as did the rest of the world. Things certainly turned out different. Has given me a sense of respect for Hezbollah that I never had.

You’re talking too much but still you don’t answer my questions I see you only wriggle around but not give us simple answer.

I didn’t ask you what the Israelis should do.

I’m asking you what would you do?

 

Here my questions to you once again:

What would you do when your neighbors kidnap your children, kills your children and your baby, kills your wife, you brothers, your sisters, your father, your mother, launching and dropping missile and bombing your house and your property, kills your friends and all of that without provocation from you. And he used and hides between civilians (that part of them let him to do this).

Would you sit back your chair and do nothing?

Do you let him killing you?

Do you let him to destroying you?

Do you let him to annihilating you?

What most important to you? your children and your baby or his children and his baby?

[Mebster]

That was a question? I thought you were just talking.

 

Well i would certainly hope i wouldn't do what the Israelis are doing. Having ones loved one isn't a easy situation but it would like to think I wouldn't react by throwing shells on one of the crowded places on earth. It may feel like the easier answer but it would not be the right.

 

If someone shoots your child, you don't go shooting his family and neighbours (something Israel is good at doing)

 

I found it funny that you held tight to this "answer my question" shield like that would help you not take notice of anything else written here.

[yossicl]

That was a question? I thought you were just talking.

 

Well i would certainly hope i wouldn't do what the Israelis are doing. Having ones loved one isn't a easy situation but it would like to think I wouldn't react by throwing shells on one of the crowded places on earth. It may feel like the easier answer but it would not be the right.

 

If someone shoots your child, you don't go shooting his family and neighbours (something Israel is good at doing)

 

I found it funny that you held tight to this "answer my question" shield like that would help you not take notice of anything else written here.

Just as I thought,

You are wriggle around but you don't have the answers and you don't have a clue what to do.

It's easy to criticize and judge others on their doing.

But when it's comes to you (not personally to you AcePlayer), you don't have the answers.

Now you realized how much it's hard to take decision of life and death

Think about that when you criticize and judge others.

[yossicl]

I would like to ask you to read the following artical that writn by Michael Behe

The author of the article, michael behe, lives in Beirut, as it happens...and he wrote from Beirut. you may not like what he wrote. but authentic he is.

 

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w060807&s=behe080706

http://ambivablog.typepad.com/ambivablog/2...on_a_victi.html

 

 

And Aceplayr if the video that I've been posted before does seems worrying, you are welcome to watch the following presentation.

ALessoninChildren__seducation.zip

[killbot1000]

Just as I thought,

You are wriggle around but you don't have the answers and you don't have a clue what to do.

It's easy to criticize and judge others on their doing.

But when it's comes to you (not personally to you AcePlayer), you don't have the answers.

Now you realized how much it's hard to take decision of life and death

Think about that when you criticize and judge others.

 

 

Yossicl, just shut up, you can hardly speak english, youre not asking any questions, youre just making statements, and then you get mad when we dont answer your non-existant questions, take a couple of english classes...

[james2mart]

AcePlayer, if you took the time to actually read any of my posts, you would know that I don't dislike all Muslims. Just like I've said before, I hate Islam, not the people that believe it. Just like I hate sin, not the people that do it.

 

Why don't we get back on track here and actually debate the issue at hand... Israel and Palestine...

[yossicl]

Yossicl, just shut up, you can hardly speak english, youre not asking any questions, youre just making statements, and then you get mad when we dont answer your non-existant questions, take a couple of english classes...

First thing I will listen to your advice and I will take a couple of English classes...

Till then I will ask you two questions.

1. What would you do when your neighbors kidnap your children, kills your children and your baby, kills your wife, you brothers, your sisters, your father, your mother, dropping missile and bombing your house and your property, kills your friends and all of that without provocation from you, and he using and hides between civilians?????

2. What most important to you, your children and your baby or his children and his baby????

 

And yes, I get mad when people are lying.

[yonika]

Listen Guys, I'm an Israeli, and I'm not ashamed of it.

I almost never do that, but this time I have to react on what is being said here and shown here.

 

Those images are fake, those images are few of many that were gathered and broadcasted intentionally to make the international community force israel to stop it's attacks on lebanon and gaza.

 

Where have you ever seen an army that warns civillians by dropping leaflets to leave a certain place before it is being attacked ? Israel puts an emphasis on the issues of avoiding the killing of civillians for two reasons:

1. We believe in the sanctity of life, this is a part of our religion, I'm not a religious person, but I've been tought since I was young that life is sacred. while the islamic ppl teach their children to belive that death is the way to redemption - get killed with as many ppl as you can, and you'll get 72 virgin girls when you get to heaven, they really do believe in that.

2. the second and most important reason for you to believe that we do not want innocent ppl and children dead, is that we know that we need the international community on our side, we are not as big and strong as the united states we need the approval of the world to act and retaliate. why on earth would we shoot in our leg and kill innocent ppl when what we need is the international community on our side ? we know that if we kill innocent children it would be the end of any act. that's why we take the chances by throwing leaflets from the air, telling civilians that we are about to attack this place and that they should leave, we take the chance that the terrorists acting from that same place would run away too. this is why it sometimes looks like israel is bombing empty buildings - because we let the civilians leave before we do that. losing the advantage of surprising the enemy.

 

one last thing, many ppl that escaped southern lebanon stated more than once that hizbollah soldiers and organizations built schools and hospitals and mosques for the purpose of hiding missiles and rockets underneithe, they help ppl build their homes and ask them in return to let them put their missiles in their homes to let their soldiers sleep in their homes. they do that because they know we won't attack there, and if we do that innocent ppl will die, then they send their photographers to take pictures of the destroyed mosque, destroyed school, destroyed hospital, all that for the international community to stop us from destroying their well hidden missiles rockets and weapons.

 

It's no wonder we look as bad as we do out there, it's because ppl like you guys believe what yor're shown.

We look like we did not defeat the enemy all because our soldiers walked from one home to another while terrorists await them in thoese homes instead of just dropping bombs from the air. you know that any other country would never sacrifice the life of its soldiers for the life of the enemy's civilians "taken hostage" by terrorists.

 

Now this is a Mac site, and I've come to look for the leopard, so where the hell is it ?

hope this falls on some rational ears - or eyes

Jonathan