Israel and Palestine

[oregano]

QUOTE(gwprod12 @ Nov 5 2006, 01:22 AM) *

 

Agreed. Let iraq have itself a civil war. That'll keep them out of our hair for a while at least.

 

I just want to go into the middle of nowhere, and start a new civilization. Who's with me?

 

woa woa woa

no way

 

it was wrong for the u.s. to get involved, but we've gone too far to pull out now

a civil war would mean horror in the middle east

what if other countries (iran) are involved?

could u imagine?

 

that just cant happen, im sry man, the u.s. isnt pulling out for a while

 

But in other hand if some country will try attacks Israel with nuclear/chemical/biological weapon…

 

if israel comes under a major attack, they will definately strike the attacking country with a great force

iran will nevr really develop nukes becuase isreal wont let them

if someone threatens to wipe ur country off the face of the earth, u probably cant trust them with nuclear weapons, am i wrong?

 

obviously this is a very serious matter, but i think this war is ridiculous

1. religion is a stupid reason for war (unless the religion tells its members to blow them selves up *cough* jihad)

2. the land below lebanon near the mediterranean was always jewish holy land-for 3,000 years

but the jews lived under Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Byzantine, and briefly the Sassanian rule for that time

i quote the torah "the promised land" for jews, the land of canaan, or israel

no matter who controlled the land offcially, it was always jewish land, and the palestinians just need to realize that its not theirs

 

its really quite simple

[consolation]

The different between the Palestinian to the Israelis about sanctity of life is deeply then the Pacific Ocean. The Palestinians have nothing with sanctity of life at all...

It will never happen trust me I know what I'm talking.

But in other hand if some country will try attacks Israel with nuclear/chemical/biological weapon…

 

 

That is the biggest load of {censored} I had read in a LOOOONG time... How come, when Israel considers The Stern Gang/Lehi , Irgun et al to be "freedom fighters," you dare call Hammas terrorists. What an utter load of hypocrisy

 

For those who might not be aware: Stern Gang were a Terrorist organisation who was fighting the British occupation of Palestine in the late 40s. In 1980 Israel instituted the Lehi ribbon, red, black, grey, pale blue and white which is awarded to former members of the Lehi underground who wished to carry it.

 

Here is a grab bag of Stern Gangs Greatest hits:

 

Assassination of Lord Moyne

UN mediator Count Folke Bernadotte was assassinated by Lehi in Jerusalem in 1948.

Cairo-Haifa train bombings

Deir Yassin massacre

 

The King David Hotel bombing, in which 91 people were killed, most of them civilians (ooops, that's Irgun, another "heroic" Israeli group that was later absorbed into the Israeli Army)

 

etc etc...

 

Sounds familiar? These are actions of Israel's founding "Heroes." Funny, that now the shoe is on the other foot, Isreal cries terrorism for identical liberation tactics.

That old chestnut about "one person's freedom fighter is another's terrorist" has never been truer. Fact is Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian territory, against a number of UN resolutions. That would make any Israeli action in occupied Palestine a war crime, wouldn't it.

 

Honestly, people are people, they will fight for freedom with whatever means are at their disposal...

[yossicl]

 

That is the biggest load of {censored} I had read in a LOOOONG time... How come, when Israel considers The Stern Gang/Lehi , Irgun et al to be "freedom fighters," you dare call Hammas terrorists. What an utter load of hypocrisy

 

For those who might not be aware: Stern Gang were a Terrorist organisation who was fighting the British occupation of Palestine in the late 40s. In 1980 Israel instituted the Lehi ribbon, red, black, grey, pale blue and white which is awarded to former members of the Lehi underground who wished to carry it.

 

Here is a grab bag of Stern Gangs Greatest hits:

 

Assassination of Lord Moyne

UN mediator Count Folke Bernadotte was assassinated by Lehi in Jerusalem in 1948.

Cairo-Haifa train bombings

Deir Yassin massacre

 

The King David Hotel bombing, in which 91 people were killed, most of them civilians (ooops, that's Irgun, another "heroic" Israeli group that was later absorbed into the Israeli Army)

 

etc etc...

 

Sounds familiar? These are actions of Israel's founding "Heroes." Funny, that now the shoe is on the other foot, Isreal cries terrorism for identical liberation tactics.

That old chestnut about "one person's freedom fighter is another's terrorist" has never been truer. Fact is Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian territory, against a number of UN resolutions. That would make any Israeli action in occupied Palestine a war crime, wouldn't it.

 

Honestly, people are people, they will fight for freedom with whatever means are at their disposal...

It's all big {censored}…

Go sit and read some historical books or go back to your school and learn something before you try to carping us.

In all Lechi attacks against GB soldiers they where always worn them to leave the building before they attacked… But somehow those soldiers were stupid enough no to believe. Anyway saying the GB soldiers was civilians it's one big lie.

 

Edit: I'm not trying to justify them but it was another age when the GB soldiers prevent by force from the Jews to making aliyah (to immigrate to Israel) during and after the Holocaust when six million Jews was murder by the Nazis.

Lechi was an armed underground Zionist faction in Palestine (the mandate name of Israel) that had as its goal the eviction of the British from Palestine , to allow unrestricted immigration of Jews and the formation of a Jewish state.

[oregano]

u have to understand the thousands of years jews have been persecuted

they deserve israel and it is rightfully theirs

they were living under the rule of other countries for milleniums, and finally, they get their own country, and u dare to criticize their actions?

finally, a fair freedom, achieved only after the death of 6 million jews in the holocaust, and still, they are attacked

its rididculous-the world needs to step back and look at this from the jews point of view, not the palestinians, who actually stole the jewish land

and britain controlled palestine, besides, and if they decided to let the jews control it, it was their choice

 

(consolation Today, 04:10 PM)

Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian territory, against a number of UN resolutions.

 

are u f****ing kidding me? THE U.N. PUT THEM THERE, AND AGREED IT WAS FAIR THEY TAKE BACK THEIR LAND

 

if ur gonna argue, learn the facts, ok? that has gotta be the biggest load of {censored} ive ever read

 

Palestine has no right to attack the jews, not the other way around

if u just stopped to c what it is like to be a jew, after years of religious persecution, ull understand that the jews need israel, and they finally have it, along with the most freedom theyve had in a long, long time

[gwprod12]

When consolation says "Palestinian territory" I think he refers to the west bank and the gaza strip. And it is true that the UN, in Security Council Resolution 242 obligates the Israelis from withdrawing military forces from the "occupied territories" of the west bank, golan heights and west bank. Israel has not complied with UN Resolution 242 in the 39 years since it was adopted. No one seems to care about it, but Israel is technically out of compliance with that Resolution.

[oregano]

well, im against the withdrawl from the gaza strip too

i mean, they earned freedom, established life, and then some of them had to leave their homes, some of 50 years+?

thats ridiculous, its the first part of the final solution all over again

[gwprod12]

I dont disagree. But they are in violation of UN resolutions.

 

Things arent black and white. But shades of grey. Understanding both sides of any issue is the key to compromise.

[consolation]

It's all big {censored}…

Go sit and read some historical books or go back to your school and learn something before you try to carping us.

In all Lechi attacks against GB soldiers they where always worn them to leave the building before they attacked… But somehow those soldiers were stupid enough no to believe. Anyway saying the GB soldiers was civilians it's one big lie.

 

Edit: I'm not trying to justify them but it was another age when the GB soldiers prevent by force from the Jews to making aliyah (to immigrate to Israel) during and after the Holocaust when six million Jews was murder by the Nazis.

Lechi was an armed underground Zionist faction in Palestine (the mandate name of Israel) that had as its goal the eviction of the British from Palestine , to allow unrestricted immigration of Jews and the formation of a Jewish state.

 

You can't ask soldiers to abandon posts because of iminent attack, that's just ridiculous, it's called desertion and gets you executed by your own side. Despite the sanitised version offered in Israeli schools a LOT of civillians were killed and targeted by these groups. After the state of Israel was announced their tactics were very similiar to the ethnic cleansing used by Serbian forces (mostly, but not exclusively) in the last balkan wars.

 

Yes, this is another age, were Palestinians are fighting for the liberation of their homeland that is being illegally occupied by a foreign power -Israel. They are using the same tactics that Israel was founded with. I'm just pointing out, that before you start to demonise Palestinians for disrespecting life etc, you should remember that as an Israeli citizen you are implicitly accepting the same methods, otherwise you should burn your passport and imigrate.

 

And, BTW 'yossicl,' I don't need to prove my knowledge but most of my information comes from political studies at uni, where the lecturers were respectable academics with no axe to grind against either side.

 

well, im against the withdrawl from the gaza strip too

i mean, they earned freedom, established life, and then some of them had to leave their homes, some of 50 years+?

thats ridiculous, its the first part of the final solution all over again

 

The setllers were foreigners placed in an occupied territory by a foreign power, according to international law, they don't have a leg to stand on; unless they were planning to ask the Palestinian Authority for refuge status.

[Mebster]

Not all the Muslims are terrorists but almost all the global terrorists on this planet are Muslims…

You can paint it in whatever colour you want. I can just as easily paint my comments to match. The world think international money always has to go through the hand of a Jew otherwise it would not be money.

 

Regarding “unarmed women” come-on whom do you try to foolish on?

This is one of the biggest {censored} in world that the Palestinian invented and nobody buys this anymore. Try to search something else to blame other on the Palestinian stupidity miserable.

BTW, I don’t hate the Muslims or Islam as you can see I was saying not all the Muslims are terrorists (I have several Muslims friends).

Did you not see those 2 women drop as they were hit by a soldier who was 20 meters away. Or were you watching to see who your next politician has slept with? Also I doubt your Muslim friends would be your friends if they were to know you consider almost all terrorists Muslim.

 

“unarmed women” ...

 

Gaza: Suicide bomber blows herself up near IDF force

What on earth does this have to do with the situation above? Stop adding garbage that has nothing to do with the actual point. Are these the same women in question? The ones that got fired on? No? Then stop {censored}ting about.

 

The different between the Palestinian to the Israelis about sanctity of life is deeply then the Pacific Ocean. The Palestinians have nothing with sanctity of life at all...

That's rich giving Israel killed over a thousand Lebanese civilians, a third of whom were children.

 

A person who has nothing to lose has nothing to live for. Palestinians see their family, friends and neighbours being killed around them. Their homes are destroyed. They have to walk for miles and miles to get around a wall just to finally reach a place they can see from their kitchen window.

 

And for your information this is what Islam says about life.

 

"You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors." (Qur'an, 2:190)

 

"O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors." (Qur'an, 5:87)

 

"If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." (Qur'an, 8:61)

 

"... if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them." (Qur'an, 4:90)

 

"You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder; he will be helped." (Qur'an, 17:33)

 

1. religion is a stupid reason for war (unless the religion tells its members to blow them selves up *cough* jihad)

2. the land below lebanon near the mediterranean was always jewish holy land-for 3,000 years

but the jews lived under Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Byzantine, and briefly the Sassanian rule for that time

i quote the torah "the promised land" for jews, the land of canaan, or israel

no matter who controlled the land offcially, it was always jewish land, and the palestinians just need to realize that its not theirs

Your stupidity is annoying me now.

Firstly show me where Islam tells you to go and blow yourself up? Either show my some facts or go jump of a building because there are too many messed up people in this world and we don't need another.

 

Secondly the statement, "was always jewish holy land-for 3,000 years" is not always. "Always" is at the start of time. And anyway, do I or the next non-jew give a monkeys if they had it 3000 years ago? They got their asses kicked off it and it was only given back when they begged hard enough that someone (UN) actually felt sorry for them. If it wasn't for the UN you would still be someones ...

And yeah yeah yeah.. God works in mysterious ways. Wooooooo (please)

 

And don't give us this {censored} that the land rightfully belongs to the Jews simply because God says so. Who's God? Not mine. Not gwprod12's or killbot1000's. Only yours. And so why should we take any notice of this. What if my God said Israel should be blown up in a billion pieces. Does that mean you will all listen and pack your things up and watch it's destruction? I doubt it. So similarly don't give me this bull like I’m supposed to just believe it simply because your God says it > you say it.

 

What on earth is the load of ass wipe about Israel not illegally occupying Palestinian land? You been in a cave with Bin Laden? gwprod12 has explained this clearly enough and so I’m not going to get involved. But I’m surprised you write before you think.

[consolation]

They got their asses kicked off it and it was only given back when they begged hard enough that someone (UN) actually felt sorry for them. If it wasn't for the UN you would still be someones ...

And yeah yeah yeah.. God works in mysterious ways. Wooooooo (please)

 

I'd be carefull about making that argument. If you follow it to it's logical conclusion, Israel should hold the occupied territories because it can...

[killbot1000]

but only because of the money and support of many nations that would RATHER have the land in Israeli control rather than Palestinian/Arab control.

[yossicl]

You can paint it in whatever colour you want. I can just as easily paint my comments to match. The world think international money always has to go through the hand of a Jew otherwise it would not be money.

Wish that was truth…

 

Did you not see those 2 women drop as they were hit by a soldier who was 20 meters away. Or were you watching to see who your next politician has slept with? Also I doubt your Muslim friends would be your friends if they were to know you consider almost all terrorists Muslim.

Those two women were helping to the terrorist to escape from the soldiers by this action they were endangered themselves. When someone sleeping with bomb he/she should not wonder if he/she will blow up to hell…

 

Today I was asking Hakim (one of my Muslim friend he is Doctor at Hadassah Hospital) "What will happened if the Palestinian will finaly got country to govern and will be peace between Israel and the new Palestinian state? Will you immigrate to the new Palestinian state?"

He answers me: "Are you crazy?!?! Here (in Israel) I can say whatever I want even against the government, I can do whatever I want, I can be whatever I want I can go where ever I want, I can be even Prime Minister of Israel. But under the Palestinian authority, GOD helps me…"

He also says: "look around you do you see any democratic Arabs state on this planet?!?!

 

What on earth does this have to do with the situation above? Stop adding garbage that has nothing to do with the actual point. Are these the same women in question? The ones that got fired on? No? Then stop {censored}ting about.

Nothing... I only post some news about “unarmed women” ...

 

That's rich giving Israel killed over a thousand Lebanese civilians, a third of whom were children.

As I already asked you before but especially for you I'll repeat it aging:

What would you do when your neighbors kidnap your children, kills your children and your baby, kills your wife, you brothers, your sisters, your father, your mother, dropping missile and bombing your house and your property, kills your friends and all of that without provocation from you. And he used and hides between civilians (that part of them let him to do this).

Would you sit back your chair and do nothing?

Do you let him killing you?

Do you let him to destroying you?

Do you let him to annihilating you?

What most important to you, your children or his children?

 

And yes that was a questions not just talking!!!

 

A person who has nothing to lose has nothing to live for. Palestinians see their family, friends and neighbours being killed around them. Their homes are destroyed. They have to walk for miles and miles to get around a wall just to finally reach a place they can see from their kitchen window.

 

And for your information this is what Islam says about life.

 

"You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors." (Qur'an, 2:190)

 

"O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors." (Qur'an, 5:87)

 

"If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." (Qur'an, 8:61)

 

"... if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them." (Qur'an, 4:90)

 

"You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder; he will be helped." (Qur'an, 17:33)

Nice words... but the problem with those words (that most of them was copied from the bible) is most of the Muslims in the world doesn’t believe them (except you of course).

Following this links and you will understand by yourself:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...norkilling.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,344374,00.html

http://www.gendercide.org/case_honour.html

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engASA330181999

 

Your stupidity is annoying me now.

Firstly show me where Islam tells you to go and blow yourself up? Either show my some facts or go jump of a building because there are too many messed up people in this world and we don't need another.

 

Secondly the statement, "was always jewish holy land-for 3,000 years" is not always. "Always" is at the start of time. And anyway, do I or the next non-jew give a monkeys if they had it 3000 years ago? They got their asses kicked off it and it was only given back when they begged hard enough that someone (UN) actually felt sorry for them. If it wasn't for the UN you would still be someones ...

And yeah yeah yeah.. God works in mysterious ways. Wooooooo (please)

 

And don't give us this {censored} that the land rightfully belongs to the Jews simply because God says so. Who's God? Not mine. Not gwprod12's or killbot1000's. Only yours. And so why should we take any notice of this. What if my God said Israel should be blown up in a billion pieces. Does that mean you will all listen and pack your things up and watch it's destruction? I doubt it. So similarly don't give me this bull like I’m supposed to just believe it simply because your God says it > you say it.

 

What on earth is the load of ass wipe about Israel not illegally occupying Palestinian land? You been in a cave with Bin Laden? gwprod12 has explained this clearly enough and so I’m not going to get involved. But I’m surprised you write before you think.

I thought we share the same GOD?!?! Everybody knows that most of the Qur'an was copied from the bible… oh and btw gwprod12 and killbot1000 have no GOD (pleas correct me if I'm wrong)...

[McSkywalker]

Everybody knows that most of the Qur'an was copied from the bible…

I'm sure you'd like to be more careful about your words. That is really offending over Muslims. Besides, the four books are from the same source for the believers. From that point of view, it is not surprising that the essential message is the same.

[yossicl]

I'm sure you'd like to be more careful about your words. That is really offending over Muslims. Besides, the four books are from the same source for the believers. From that point of view, it is not surprising that the essential message is the same.

Sorry but I didn't meant to offending over Muslims, on the contrary I was meant that we share the same GOD Isn't It?

[McSkywalker]

Yes, Muslims, Jews and Christians believe in the same God. But claiming one book is copied from another, is a totally different thing. It is rejecting it's holiness and saying that it's made up by people. That's why I said that expression offends Muslims, because Kur'an only contains God's words according to Islam.

[consolation]

What would you do when your neighbors kidnap your children, kills your children and your baby, kills your wife, you brothers, your sisters, your father, your mother, dropping missile and bombing your house and your property, kills your friends and all of that without provocation from you. And he used and hides between civilians (that part of them let him to do this).

Would you sit back your chair and do nothing?

Do you let him killing you?

Do you let him to destroying you?

Do you let him to annihilating you?

What most important to you, your children or his children?

 

Yes, but you have to ask yourself, WHY is my neighbour so angry at me? Is it because I stole his land, killed his family, etc etc....

 

Israel has brought the situation on itself by being an occupying power for nigh on 40+ years. To put it in perspective; after WWII many European countries would have felt justified in partitioning of Germany, but that's not what they did. Instead the Allies left after a couple of years and poured massive amounts of reconstruction money to build a stable and prosperous state. Somehow Israel seems to act as if Palestine deserved a fate worse than NAZI Germany. If Israel instituted some version of the Marshal Plan after 1967 they may have been seen, by the International community, as liberating the West Bank from Jordanian occupation. Instead it initiated a land grab and are now surprised at being universally condemned -if not despised...

[yossicl]

Yes, Muslims, Jews and Christians believe in the same God. But claiming one book is copied from another, is a totally different thing. It is rejecting it's holiness and saying that it's made up by people. That's why I said that expression offends Muslims, because Kur'an only contains God's words according to Islam.

O.k. I’m taking back my words (about the copy/paste).

[yossicl]

Yes, but you have to ask yourself, WHY is my neighbour so angry at me? Is it because I stole his land, killed his family, etc etc....

 

Israel has brought the situation on itself by being an occupying power for nigh on 40+ years. To put it in perspective; after WWII many European countries would have felt justified in partitioning of Germany, but that's not what they did. Instead the Allies left after a couple of years and poured massive amounts of reconstruction money to build a stable and prosperous state. Somehow Israel seems to act as if Palestine deserved a fate worse than NAZI Germany. If Israel instituted some version of the Marshal Plan after 1967 they may have been seen, by the International community, as liberating the West Bank from Jordanian occupation. Instead it initiated a land grab and are now surprised at being universally condemned -if not despised...

Look back to the facts.

A day after the declaration of independence of the State of Israel, armies of five Arab countries, Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq, invaded Israel. This marked the beginning of the War of Independence. Arab states have jointly waged four full-scale wars against Israel:

1948 War of Independence

1956 Sinai War

1967 Six Day War

1973 Yom Kippur War

Despite the numerical superiority of the Arab armies, Israel defended itself each time and won. After each war Israeli army withdrew from most of the areas it captured (see maps http://www.jewishagency.org/JewishAgency/E...nd+Zionism+Maps ). This is unprecedented in World history and shows Israel's willingness to reach peace even at the risk of fighting for its very existence each time anew.

 

Note that with Judea and Samaria Israel is only 40 miles wide. Thus, Israel can be crossed from the Mediterranean coast to the Eastern border at Jordan river within one hour of driving.

 

By Saying “Somehow Israel seems to act as if Palestine deserved a fate worse than NAZI Germany” it’s big {censored}.

In all of the 3000 Jews history The Jews was never threaten any one, on the contrary always other nation tried to annihilate the Jews from this planet but it seems that GOD never left the Jews...

After the exile by the Romans, the Jewish people migrated to Europe and North Africa. In the Diaspora (scattered outside of the Land of Israel), they established rich cultural and economic lives, and contributed greatly to the societies where they lived. Yet, they continued their national attachments and prayed to return to Israel through centuries. In the first half of the 20th century there were major waves of immigration of Jews back to Israel from Arab countries and from Europe. During the British rule in Palestine, the Jewish people were subject to great violence and massacres directed by Arab civilians or forces of the neighboring Arab states. During World War II, the Nazi regime in Germany decimated about 6 million Jews creating the great tragedy of The Holocaust.

In 1948, Jewish Community in Israel under the leadership of David Ben-Gurion reestablished sovereignty over their ancient homeland. Declaration of independence of the modern State of Israel was announced on the day that the last British forces left Israel (May 14, 1948).

 

Quote from Charles Krauthammer - The Weekly Standard, May 11, 1998

 

"Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store."

 

It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of a Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The Palestinian National Charter adopted by the PLO states.

 

Do you still compare between the Great Jewish nation to the Palestinian populace that comes from nowhere and claimed the Land of Israel belong to them? This is ridiculous.

 

Edit:

If the Arabs (Moslems) put down their weapons today there would be no more violence.

If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel.

Think about it...

[consolation]

Look back to the facts.

A day after the declaration of independence of the State of Israel, armies of five Arab countries, Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq, invaded Israel.

 

Blah...Blah...Blah

 

By Saying “Somehow Israel seems to act as if Palestine deserved a fate worse than NAZI Germany” it’s big {censored}.

In all of the 3000 Jews history The Jews was never threaten any one, on the contrary always other nation tried to annihilate the Jews from this planet but it seems that GOD never left the Jews.

 

Blah...Blah...

In 1948, Jewish Community in Israel under the leadership of David Ben-Gurion reestablished sovereignty over their ancient homeland. Declaration of independence of the modern State of Israel was announced on the day that the last British forces left Israel (May 14, 1948).

 

Do you still compare between the Great Jewish nation to the Palestinian populace that comes from nowhere and claimed the Land of Israel belong to them? This is ridiculous.

 

Edit:

If the Arabs (Moslems) put down their weapons today there would be no more violence.

If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel.

Think about it...

 

EVERY SINGLE country that has been around for a while has similiar tales of struggle and triumph as part of their National Mythology, your's just goes a bit further back. I lived in Europe, Middle East and now in the Antipodes, it's the same everywhere. Should Poland invade Russia to regain territories it lost since the 16th century? What about Japan, should it reclaim the Korean penninsula? I think Greece controlled all of Persia, once, a rumble in Iran perchance?

 

The Palestinians did not come from nowhere, their ancestors can claim they proudly thought back the crusades, the English empire... etc etc.... same as Israelis, they have their own national mythology

 

You should really try and look past the Nationalist propaganda that each culture spoon feeds their members, buying into all that {censored} is so... Orwellian; Oceania is at war if Eurasia, Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.....

Do you still compare between the Great Jewish nation to the Palestinian populace that comes from nowhere and claimed the Land of Israel belong to them? This is ridiculous.

Yes, you are the master race and you need your room to live. Oh, hang on, heard that before -somewhere...

 

If the Arabs (Moslems) put down their weapons today there would be no more violence.

If the Israelis put down their weapons today there would be no more Israel.

Think about it...

 

No one is asking Israel to disarm, just get the feck back within it's borders... You might find more countries would be willing to support and defend Israe if it wasn't OCCUPYING another country.

[yossicl]

EVERY SINGLE country that has been around for a while has similiar tales of struggle and triumph as part of their National Mythology, your's just goes a bit further back. I lived in Europe, Middle East and now in the Antipodes, it's the same everywhere. Should Poland invade Russia to regain territories it lost since the 16th century? What about Japan, should it reclaim the Korean penninsula? I think Greece controlled all of Persia, once, a rumble in Iran perchance?

I’m not trying to argue with you on evidence.

 

The Palestinians did not come from nowhere, their ancestors can claim they proudly thought back the crusades, the English empire... etc etc.... same as Israelis, they have their own national mythology

 

You should really try and look past the Nationalist propaganda that each culture spoon feeds their members, buying into all that {censored} is so... Orwellian; Oceania is at war if Eurasia, Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.....

Yes, they come from nowhere there is no even single evidence to proving their claims.

The area called Palestine included the territories of present day Israel and Jordan. Under Lausanne agreement of 1923 Turkey transferred all claims to Palestine to mandatory power Britain. In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. In 1947 UN partitioned this remaining land into two states, a second Arab state, Palestine, and Israel. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion. The Arabs in the area began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel. Virtually all the Arabs in Judea, Samaria and Gaza in the West Bank of Jordan River have complete autonomy under the rule of the Palestinian Authority.

 

WHAT DOES "PALESTINE" MEAN?

 

It has never been the name of a nation or state. It is a geographical term, used to designate the region at those times in history when there is no nation or state there.

 

The word itself derives from "Peleshet", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". The Philistines were mediterranean people originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They reached the southern coast of Israel in several waves. One group arrived in the pre-patriarchal period and settled south of Beersheba in Gerar where they came into conflict with Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael. Another group, coming from Crete after being repulsed from an attempted invasion of Egypt by Rameses III in 1194 BCE, seized the southern coastal area, where they founded five settlements (Gaza, Ascalon, Ashdod, Ekron and Gat). In the Persian and Greek periods, foreign settlers - chiefly from the Mediterranean islands - overran the Philistine districts. From the time of Herodotus, Greeks called the eastern coast of the Mediterranean "Syria Palaestina".

 

The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina"; which is derived from the Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea.

 

The use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab ethnic group is a modern political creation which has no basis in fact - and had never had any international or academic credibility before 1967.

 

That was historical facts not some storytellers or Spoon-feeds!!!

 

Yes, you are the master race and you need your room to live. Oh, hang on, heard that before -somewhere...

No one is asking Israel to disarm, just get the feck back within it's borders... You might find more countries would be willing to support and defend Israe if it wasn't OCCUPYING another country.

This is a joke, right?

Three Two thousand years they tried to annihilate the Jews, now you telling us that countries would be willing to support and defend Israel?

Wake up from your dreams… It will never happen…

[killbot1000]

Three thousand years they tried to annihilate the Jews, now you telling us that countries would be willing to support and defend Israel?

Wake up from your dreams… It will never happen…

 

 

Historically untrue...

[yossicl]

Historically untrue...

Yes, you right my mistake… two thousand years… does it matter?

[killbot1000]

Yes, you right my mistake… two thousand years… does it matter?

 

Get off your high horse, Jews are no different than any ethnic/religious group. They have all been persecuted in one way or another, the Jewish people are no different.

[yossicl]

Get off your high horse, Jews are no different than any ethnic/religious group. They have all been persecuted in one way or another, the Jewish people are no different.

Pleas open my eye and tell me what other ethnic/religious group has been persecuted consistently during more then 2000 years?

[consolation]

Yes, they come from nowhere there is no even single evidence to proving their claims.

 

You are kidding right? Every HUMAN being on the planet has exactly the same length of history to them; ~200000 years ago we diverged from Homo Erectus and wandered out of Africa. Then we meandered around the planet encountering a lot of {censored} on the way, till we came to be where we are. Saying that one group of people has less of a history is, lets be polite, delusional. It's entirely beside the point anyway, the UN agreed on Israel's border after WWII, much as it agreed on new borders for France, Germany, Russia, Poland and a host of other countries. Everyone has a historical claim on someone else's backyard but, for the sake of getting along, everyone has learned to live with the facts. Israel and China are the only countries which completely occupy their neighbors, Palestine and Tibet respectively. Before 1947 there was NO state of Israel (in antiquity the area was a collection of warring tribes and petty kings), it was created by other nations for the jewish people. So, let go of this "all the countries are persecuting us," yes european countries treated jews poorly in the past but no worse than gypsies, muslims or homosexuals. In fact Europe treated everyone who wasn't white and Christian like {censored}; no need to feel special about it.

 

Pleas open my eye and tell me what other ethnic/religious group has been persecuted consistently during more then 2000 years?

 

Actually if you really want to feel persecuted look at the history of the roma people...