Takuro Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 ............................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenjau Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 maybe there is no hope,sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathChill Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 maybe there is no hope,sadly. There is definitely hope, no one's bothering to help as I KNOW people know dev's but no one's asking. I've asked TONS of dev's and got no help :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takuro Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 ............................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenared Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 How about this ... We forget about trying to hack any future releases. and suddenly for some strange reason Apple starts to miss us messing with their builds and finding vulnerabilities and decides to throw a bone to us in the form of 10.4.4?? Because if they are truely learning from us, they need to give us something to "work" on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudar Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 And besides that, warez is bad and evil. You don't want to "burn in hell" do you? That's what "tastes differ" was pointed to. As for unique and "marked" DVDs: let us just imagine what could be done if smb one day decided to give away such a disk. He would create a disk image and merely add or delete some useless file systemwise, i.e. "readme" or smth. That shall change MD5 of his DVD. That's all. So I do not accept that code as a serious thing that may prevent professionals from copying or publishing or leaking it worldwide. Avoiding any threat of being caught is such a simple trick for those folks! That means they merely do not want bothering themselves with this... OK, this is their choice and I respect it. But my choice is to seek for it. And you ought to respect it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takuro Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 ............................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blahsucks Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 How about this ... We forget about trying to hack any future releases. and suddenly for some strange reason Apple starts to miss us messing with their builds and finding vulnerabilities and decides to throw a bone to us in the form of 10.4.4?? Because if they are truely learning from us, they need to give us something to "work" on. But what if Apple isn't learning from us? They've clearly gotten smarter with build leaks, and I doubt they would rely on us even if we did help them. It's not that simple. Apple would basically need to seed the torrent themselves, and then there are all sorts of problems (remember the first "leak," which showed goatse?) I doubt they could actually encourage a developer to leak it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiebeest Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 And besides that, warez is bad and evil. You don't want to "burn in hell" do you? Than everybody one these boards must developpers...or else it'll be very hot here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaboom Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 The sums differ in each dvd because they might have a certain section of something crucial like mach_kernel and within it is a line that says "6gj4630fk" and for another dev their's would say "ghk486jde." Like a license plate #, it gives away their identity. And it is being worked on to find which files may be marked in such a way, but osx86project does not endorse this kind of thing. Where did you get this ? Could you currently prove it ? Apple never did this kind of hard-coded "leak tracker" and they probably never will do. If you don't have a proof, don't post false informations please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbwlim Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Where did you get this ? Could you currently prove it ? Apple never did this kind of hard-coded "leak tracker" and they probably never will do. If you don't have a proof, don't post false informations please. Good point! DeathChill is eagerly looking for someone else to compare MD5 sums more than in last 2 weeks. Nobody come up with!!! But everybody tell MD5 is different because Apple made some tracker on it. Somebody who want to tell Apple tracking, first contact DeathChill to compare MD5 before just saying Apple tracking. Or, Don't speak too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39thRonin Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Good point! DeathChill is eagerly looking for someone else to compare MD5 sums more than in last 2 weeks. Nobody come up with!!! But everybody tell MD5 is different because Apple made some tracker on it. Somebody who want to tell Apple tracking, first contact DeathChill to compare MD5 before just saying Apple tracking. Or, Don't speak too much! Exactly! I think it's a bit off the wall to throw these totally unsubtantiated rumors out into the public. It is quite possible that Apple didn't place ANY tracking on ANY release and we are sitting here spinning our wheels while we could be running a much better release than we currently are. I mean, look, if setting up a way to track the owner of an individual CD was so simple, don't you think it would already have been done on a mass scale? Hell, every Macromedia release is on a tracker within minutes of it's release - same with Adobe stuff. I'd think if something like this was easy to do - they would do it before anyone... Just my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkblt Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 A few thoughts: - If I were Apple, and trying to interfere with the Mactel scene, I would have employees pose as board members and spread lots of FUD about such things as watermarking and ADC members being kicked out. I'm not saying the releases aren't watermarked, just that spreading rumors that they are could be as destructive to the scene. - If the builds are watermarked, posting MD5s publically to the board is a bad idea, because Apple can generate the same MD5 sums on all the watermarked releases and figure out who the developers are that are leaking information. Whatever the case may be, the fear, uncertainly and doubt that surrounds these releases is having a strong effect in shutting down leaks of builds subsequent to 10.4.1. This is unfortunate, especially because when Apple releases the final (unwatermarked) public version, it may be very different than these developer boxes and we may all be SOL. Let's all be aware of these things, and approach the leak of 10.4.3 with good engineering sense to determine whether or not there is any marking, without falling into the rumor-spreading trap that paralyzes our efforts. /blkblt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jegabla Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Well put blkblt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takuro Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 ............................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39thRonin Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 blkbit; All excellent and very important points. One question to the group: Did anyone think to check for watermaking on the Marklar release? Or deadmoo? I've not found ANY evidence of such a concern. As I stated previously, if media could easily be watermarked to the point of making each disk "trackable" I would suspect that it would already be done on a fairly large scale. Does anyone here think for one minute that the record companies wouldn't mark every track to prevent ripping if it was feasible? Caution in any endevour is a good thing, but let's use some common sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takuro Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 ............................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbwlim Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Already warned too much enough at least for someone who may have DEVs. And already know the possibility of watermarking. Please please please do not speak too much!! Rather let us find another angel who is willing to compare MD5 with DeathChill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentertainment Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Here's an idea... Maybe you can do an md5sum of part of it? Tell people which part (lets say the you used winrar w/no compression setting and split it into 1mb chunks and take an md5 of one) and tell people which chunk you md5'ed and wait for somone who claims they have it and get their md5. Hopefully they will match if it's real, and then you could compare md5sums of the entire disk! Sound good? *ouch, I think I said too much * There's always a loophole, whether it be found or not...there's always one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathChill Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 10.4.3 is MUCH more stringent security wise obviously as it now does not boot up. It starts booting and then reboots your computer, even on a computer that normally works perfectly for installing. I tried and it just reboots so it's probably checking for the exact motherboard (as I have the same CPU and video card and RAM amount) or it's checking for the TPM chip. When I check it in -v it loads a few kexts and then reboots so it is most likely loading the TPM kext and rebooting. EDIT: It reboots at 'Starting Darwin/x86' See, it loads up to here and then says 'Starting Darwin/x86' and instantly reboots (had to CAREFULLY watch 6 or 7 times to catch the 'Starting Darwin/x86' thing as it reboots instantly) http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/5334/1043load1nh.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWR Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 A good place to start would be to get a list of KEXTs and their loading order from a dev kit and see exactly where it goes dead to see if it really is the TPM KEXT although it more than likely is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39thRonin Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 10.4.3 is MUCH more stringent security wise obviously as it now does not boot up. It starts booting and then reboots your computer, even on a computer that normally works perfectly for installing. I tried and it just reboots so it's probably checking for the exact motherboard (as I have the same CPU and video card and RAM amount) or it's checking for the TPM chip. When I check it in -v it loads a few kexts and then reboots so it is most likely loading the TPM kext and rebooting. EDIT: It reboots at 'Starting Darwin/x86' See, it loads up to here and then says 'Starting Darwin/x86' and instantly reboots (had to CAREFULLY watch 6 or 7 times to catch the 'Starting Darwin/x86' thing as it reboots instantly) http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/5334/1043load1nh.jpg Wasn't this the case with the original Marklar bits as well? It seems to me that we need to get these bits out into the hands of Maxussus so that he can build (or remove) the right pieces so it will work for us. Then send those bits to bender and broadband and let them bend the bits to a dvd again. I suspect that the only way that dvd will boot for one of our boxes is to throw it on a disk, take out the tpm stuff, and burn a new, bootable disk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkblt Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I wonder if it's possible to use the Darwin Kernel debugger (there must be one, no?) to help figure this out. Virtual PC has this nifty feature where you can assign a host pipe to a slave COM port, and attach the kernel debugger to this. Of course, Maxxus probably has this all figured out. /blkblt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudar Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I suspect that the only way that dvd will boot for one of our boxes is to throw it on a disk, take out the tpm stuff, and burn a new, bootable disk. Highly likely that's the point... Anyway until smb overcomes his laziness/fear/doubt (the choice is up to you) and gives away that 10.4.3 build we are all like kids standing in a street starring at a show-window with desired stuff betting whether the window is under a current and waiting for Neo to fetch it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myzar Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 10.4.3 is MUCH more stringent security wise obviously as it now does not boot up. It starts booting and then reboots your computer, even on a computer that normally works perfectly for installing. I tried and it just reboots so it's probably checking for the exact motherboard (as I have the same CPU and video card and RAM amount) or it's checking for the TPM chip. When I check it in -v it loads a few kexts and then reboots so it is most likely loading the TPM kext and rebooting. EDIT: It reboots at 'Starting Darwin/x86' See, it loads up to here and then says 'Starting Darwin/x86' and instantly reboots (had to CAREFULLY watch 6 or 7 times to catch the 'Starting Darwin/x86' thing as it reboots instantly) http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/5334/1043load1nh.jpg from your shot it hangs after loading the kext cache so it can be any kext, you can try changing the kext cache on the dvd with one from a working box like bender1 did to get the first working bootable dvd. or even a desperate try using 10.4.2 kext cache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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