Psystar claims Apple doesn't own rights on OS X

[Orea]

Another Company, Another Problem. Just ignore Pystar, they'll be gone soon.

[macgirl]

Their open source projects may not be so easy to find on their web site but they are there:-

http://store.psystar.com/opensource/openhaltrestart

http://store.psystar.com/opensource/opendsdt

http://store.psystar.com/opensource/r1000

Yes they hide them, you can only find them if you google them, but on sourceforge.org is nothing.

 

Here is an example this page http://psystar.com/realtek_r1000_driver.html is one of the non-working, if you click on the kext or the source nothing is downloaded and it is redirected to the store, clever.

 

The http://psystar.com/open_source.html which is supposed to has all of their "Open Source" also redirects to the store.

 

Oh yes, they have OPEN SOURCE, well not so OPEN.

[shadisaleh]

Yes they hide them, you can only find them if you google them, but on sourceforge.org is nothing.

 

Here is an example this page http://psystar.com/realtek_r1000_driver.html is one of the non-working, if you click on the kext or the source nothing is downloaded and it is redirected to the store, clever.

 

The http://psystar.com/open_source.html which is supposed to has all of their "Open Source" also redirects to the store.

Oh yes, they have OPEN SOURCE, well not so OPEN.

 

http://sourceforge.net/projects/realtekr1000/ ???????

 

But anyway, as much as I don`t really approve of Psystar, it`s a simple case of supply and demand (taking simplification to an extreme). If nobody wanted to buy clones, they would go out of business for a lack of customers.

 

I much rather prefer OS X enthusiasts to build their own hackintoshes and work through bugs and errors. This way, they become more knowledgeable about the workings of their hardware and can contribute their findings to the community.

[macgirl]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/realtekr1000/ ???????

http://sourceforge.net/projects/realtekr1000/ is not Psystar work, they took it and made some adjustments and promise that they will release the "new" version.

 

Is that is not clear enough for you:

http://store.psystar.com/opensource/r1000

Realtek R1000 Driver

The Realtek R1000 driver for Mac OS X is an open-source driver for OS X that we use for our Open Computer systems. We've modified the R1000 driver to allow for better and more reliable operation on our machines but are now releasing that driver so that anyone with a Realtek NIC can use it to enhance their machine. The original driver project page can be found here.

 

9/12/08 Dual-gigabit networking is now supported. Better interrupt timing has resulted in greater throughput, as well.

 

To get the driver in binary form (.kext) click here

 

We're also releasing the project code for this device as the developers of this project did before us. What we've done is enhance the interrupt handling and link detection for these NICS: RTL8168, RTL8111, RTL8169, RTL8101. We want to give everyone a better driver. If you have any fixes, modifications, or detailed hardware specifications for this hardware (which we don't have) let us know.

 

To get the XCode project click here.

 

 

 

The Realtek R1000 Driver for Mac OS X is released under the GPL License outlined on the original project page.

[bofors]

They don't even need to explicitly register for copyright.

 

No doubt... WTF?

 

Another Company, Another Problem. Just ignore Pystar, they'll be gone soon.

 

The only place they are going is off-shore, out of US jurisdiction.

[Justin Blue]

I always believed that OS x86 (However indirectly) does ultimately benefit Apple; since many from this community have gone on to make the full switch to Apple Hardware. And also, many buy accessories like Apple Keyboards and Mice to make their experiences more genuine; thus benefiting apple. If Psystar persist in this futility, Apple are more and more likely to just throw down the hammer once and for all on all of this mac-cloning activity and then this community will be destroyed.

Or worse still, they could go down the MS route and put Activation codes and Product keys and Serial Keys on every piece of software that comes out of Cupertino.

 

 

I think it will be easier than that... All they have to do is change their code completely, make it completely different from now, and operate differently. Then the people here will be like, what is this kernel, what happened to the boot, why is this doing so and so... They do change it constantly all the time, but they really don't completely make it operate differently that it will take a couple months for people to start figuring out how to hack it. Thats what they could do, they wouldn't hurt the genuine Apple customers with activation like Microsoft does, they would just completely change the way the core of Mac OS X Leopard functions.

 

When I saw this article, I knew Psystar was retarded for this move, then I thought they better stop now because if they don't, I can see Apple getting fed up and changing Mac OS X all around. Then we would be screwed, and Psystar would still be selling the last OSX86 functioning release, even though it would be months old and probably being hammered by all the software updates attempting to kill it.

 

Psystar go back to where you came from!

[Guest cavallo]

I really hope Apple starts distributing it's OS for PCs. It's such a user- friendly and fast OS compared to Windows and Linux. They'd definitely make a ton of money from selling Mac OS install disks for PCs, but the problem is that no one would buy their over-priced hardware any more.

 

If Psystar wins Apple will either start distributing Mac OS or they'll go the Microsoft Genuine Advantage route. If Apple wins then they still get to sell over-priced hardware with a nice operating system.

 

The problem is will pc changing their boot method?

Also with uefi no, so is useless.

 

 

 

 

When I saw this article, I knew Psystar was retarded for this move, then I thought they better stop now because if they don't, I can see Apple getting fed up and changing Mac OS X all around. Then we would be screwed, and Psystar would still be selling the last OSX86 functioning release, even though it would be months old and probably being hammered by all the software updates attempting to kill it.

 

Psystar go back to where you came from!

 

That's right.

That is what apple is just doing and believe me, Psystar is not so cheap and in any case you pay something that is not a Mac.

[shadisaleh]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/realtekr1000/ is not Psystar work, they took it and made some adjustments and promise that they will release the "new" version.

 

Is that is not clear enough for you:

 

ahh, thanks. Didn't bother reading through their {censored}..

[CptDodge]

My opinion, it is just a big smoke screen on Apple's part. They ventured into x86 and some may say it backfired on them because the x86 community have taken there OS X and run with it to see what things can be done with it and you could say this forum is a result of it. Just think of the valuable information forums like his hold that the apple developers of OS X can use to there advantage. You've got people giving reports back on all types of x86 hardware that OS X runs own. This could cost apple engineers thousands or even millions to do themselves, test the OS on all types of x86 platforms. CPU's, Intel and Nvidia chipsets, Realtek, gigabyte and Marvel and wireless networking, monitor and LCD checking, all this being done by us the community to see if we can get it to run on our x86 systems. This forum is a pure gold mine for the apple developers and i doubt they would want to see it come to an end.

 

While what goes on here is done by the hard work of unselfish others and offer there time and work free to the community, Psystar have been a bit greedy and seen if they can make some money out of it and this is what Apple is trying to stop. What will go against Apple is if in the future they produce an official version that run's on clones, people will start crying 'foul' because rather than work with a company working on clones, they would rather put them out of business and work on the OS X clone scene all themselves.

[og-phantom]

My opinion, it is just a big smoke screen on Apple's part. They ventured into x86 and some may say it backfired on them because the x86 community have taken there OS X and run with it to see what things can be done with it and you could say this forum is a result of it. Just think of the valuable information forums like his hold that the apple developers of OS X can use to there advantage. You've got people giving reports back on all types of x86 hardware that OS X runs own. This could cost apple engineers thousands or even millions to do themselves, test the OS on all types of x86 platforms. CPU's, Intel and Nvidia chipsets, Realtek, gigabyte and Marvel and wireless networking, monitor and LCD checking, all this being done by us the community to see if we can get it to run on our x86 systems. This forum is a pure gold mine for the apple developers and i doubt they would want to see it come to an end.

 

While what goes on here is done by the hard work of unselfish others and offer there time and work free to the community, Psystar have been a bit greedy and seen if they can make some money out of it and this is what Apple is trying to stop. What will go against Apple is if in the future they produce an official version that run's on clones, people will start crying 'foul' because rather than work with a company working on clones, they would rather put them out of business and work on the OS X clone scene all themselves.

I think Apple expected a small group to hack OSX onto "beige" boxes when they did the Intel switch. Apple tested OSX on a slightly modified Intel board, so they knew it would work on regular off the shelf parts. What pissed Apple off was Psystar boldly selling OSX with "beige" boxes. Apple makes it's money on hardware, not OSX. OSX is what makes Macs different from PCs (aka Winbloze boxes). Apple makes some money on the boxed copies of OSX, but nothing compared to the hardware they sell. Psystar I think is drawing too much attention to the rest of us, and I just hope I can afford to get a Mac Pro before Apple implements something in OSX to keep it from running on hacks. Steve will NEVER sell OSX separate from a Mac. No discussion on that one. Apple would lose money. Now, if their hardware sales dropped to almost nil, I could maybe possibly see Apple trying out selling OSX for like $399 a copy (with activation and all that MS style {censored}). But, I think that will happen when I win the frackin lotto. My $.02

[CptDodge]

I think Apple expected a small group to hack OSX onto "beige" boxes when they did the Intel switch. Apple tested OSX on a slightly modified Intel board, so they knew it would work on regular off the shelf parts. What pissed Apple off was Psystar boldly selling OSX with "beige" boxes. Apple makes it's money on hardware, not OSX. OSX is what makes Macs different from PCs (aka Winbloze boxes). Apple makes some money on the boxed copies of OSX, but nothing compared to the hardware they sell. Psystar I think is drawing too much attention to the rest of us, and I just hope I can afford to get a Mac Pro before Apple implements something in OSX to keep it from running on hacks. Steve will NEVER sell OSX separate from a Mac. No discussion on that one. Apple would lose money. Now, if their hardware sales dropped to almost nil, I could maybe possibly see Apple trying out selling OSX for like $399 a copy (with activation and all that MS style {censored}). But, I think that will happen when I win the frackin lotto. My $.02

 

Don't you think this can also be applied to the big x86 manufacturers, Dell, IBM, NEC, HP. They all make there own motherboards to fit inside there machines, they are not off the shelf boards. They then provide software drivers to make sure that there board works with the hardware they choose to use. They do the hassle of building and installing the software so the user can purchase a ready to go system from the shop. The techies amongst us don't care about this and will build our own systems with no support from anyone. Now Apple moving to Intel means moving to standard third party off the shelf parts, DVD drives, network cards, video cards but this is putting them in the same boat as the PC manufacturers, make your own motherboard, supply drivers to make it work but use off the shelf parts to complete it. The only thing making the difference then in the computer wars would be a direct head to head with Microsoft as to who is the better OS because both would be using x86 hardware. At the moment this is not the case because Apple can say they make there own hardware to work with there own OS so a direct head to head with Microsoft is nothing.

 

Personally i feel Apple would like to avoid a direct head to head confrontation with Microsoft because they might loose. Both OS's using x86 hardware, the winner being who's OS the customers prefer. At the moment OS X on x86 is currently all controlled by Apple but Psystar doing what they are doing is taking it out of there control and bringing it to the masses before Apple can put any legal binding wording on licenses for x86 OSx clones. If a free well supported OS like Linux is not able to put a dent in Microsoft, how do you think Apple are going to feel if they try and role out a paid for OS X for x86 hardware.

[Maxintosh]

Steve will NEVER sell OSX separate from a Mac. No discussion on that one. Apple would lose money.

Finally some logic and reason. Thank you.

[Zaap]

Err...

 

I think you must mean not sell a version of OSX that's designed to run on x86 hardware, because of course Apple does sell a retail version of OSX 'seperate from a Mac'.

 

Also, with the current generation of Apple machines, they can't radically change the code that much to exclude hacks. They'd also bork their own machines which *OUTSIDE OF THE REALITY DISORTION FIELD* are themselves just a collection of 3rd party x86 parts, using the same chipsets/controllers/processors/GPUs, audio hardware, etc as anything they'd try and target.

 

Apple could try and go back to a far more proprietary model for thier own hardware, but for now, the idea of 'pulling a switch' that would kill hacks but not the real deal, is pure fantasy.

[Maxintosh]

for now, the idea of 'pulling a switch' that would kill hacks but not the real deal, is pure fantasy.

Not true. Since OS X is supplied as part of every new Mac, all they need to do is to implement an option where the user could upgrade to the next new version (for example, Snow Leopard) via the Apple updater. No retail versions of OS X would ever need to be sold. Then they'll know who's hacking and who's not, and they can have complete control over the whole situation. Apple is not stupid and they are not sitting on their hands. They could have easily shut this community down if they wanted to a long time ago. They chose not to, probably because they wanted to learn something before they made their next move. That next move may be coming down the pike shortly

[prowlingfox]

It just makes me so upset that Psystar would use the OSX86 community's findings to make money. And how stupid did they think apple was? They were selling their clone machines in clear daylight...probably not even thinking about the consequences. What we're doing in this community is just hobbying, experimenting with computers and fooling around a little. We're just doing it for fun, and we're not selling our work. I'm sure almost everyone in this community believes that Apple products should all stay in the Apple line.

 

Apple, kick Psystar's :censored2: ing :censored2: .

[ Suzie's Soliloquy]

In all fairness, I hardly think it was stupidity on Psystar's behalf. They wanted to get a reaction from Apple over what they were doing, and they definitely got one. Now everyone in the ICT scene knows Psystar's name.

[slacker25]

@Zaap ... you sound too much like a windows dev ... its impossible to do .... no its not tpm and efi doesnt seem like that big of a deal now cause its just a small amount in the mac right now and in the firmware ... what happens when they start stamoing that on every piece of hardware and every piece of code ... by the time the hack on that was done there would pry be no OS left

 

 

@Maxintosh ...... Logic on this forum Where... i must see

[Zaap]

Not true. Since OS X is supplied as part of every new Mac, all they need to do is to implement an option where the user could upgrade to the next new version (for example, Snow Leopard) via the Apple updater. No retail versions of OS X would ever need to be sold. Then they'll know who's hacking and who's not, and they can have complete control over the whole situation.

First off, Apple isn't going to stop selling a retail version because it's still much easier to distribute a full version upgrade via disc, than via System Update. (A full version upgrade with all the drivers + language files is always going to be several gigabytes). They'd have to have pay system built into System Update to charge money for the full version upgrade- immensely expensive, and once again, how is the system going to actually know a 'real' Mac user from a Hackintosh user? Setup yet another Microsoft-like activation system to scan the user's hardware? I'm sure that's cheap, easy and completely foolproof. So what they'd supposedly gain with such a method would probably cost far more than it'd ever save, and be a big inconvenience to their users. It wouldn't stop the 'distro' Hackintosh methods at all, just encourage even more, and in fact, would just cost Apple the extra sales that they are getting from retail Hackintosh users that buy the OS. The very idea that Apple would waste undue resources worrying about "who's hacking and who's not" is laughable.

 

About the only idea that's in any way realistic, is if Apple moved to a serial number and activation scheme for their OS's, but even that carries with it a lot of cost and problems to implement that most people just don't consider- and even then, it can be fairly easily circumvented.

 

They could have easily shut this community down if they wanted to a long time ago.

Please. Once again, Apple is not some legislative authority that can shut down any and every thing on a whim.

 

Where do some of you even get this weird view of Apple, or any corporation for that matter?

 

Did you wake up one day and find yourself inside a totalitarian regime with Apple as the supreme authority, and freedom of speech and everything else gone? The rest of us didn't. Apple has no authority to shut down this or any other "community". It's folly to waste time even worrying about it. They're just a company that makes computers and entertainment gadgets, not some global totalitarian regime with the power to silence any and everything that doesn't jibe with their corporate edicts. It's scary how much power some people are willing to believe is held by mere corporations, and even how willing some are to surrender real freedoms to that imagined power.

 

@Zaap ... you sound too much like a windows dev ... its impossible to do .... no its not tpm and efi doesnt seem like that big of a deal now cause its just a small amount in the mac right now and in the firmware ... what happens when they start stamoing that on every piece of hardware and every piece of code ... by the time the hack on that was done there would pry be no OS left

I assume (from what I can make out) you're going on about something you IMAGINE Apple doing- stamping something on each piece of hardware they use? Heh, okay, whatever. Has nothing to do with anything I'm talking about- unless you imagine they're going to somehow retroactively go back and "stamoing" every part in every Mac they've already made and sold. We're talking about the EXISTING user base, and how they'd magically make some distinction to disable Hackintoshes without also borking their own EXISTING machines.

 

I'd already said changing to a proprietary model with future Macs is one direction, but that's not addressing the issue with current hardware.

[DesiMaster]

I think that as Apple's problems regarding this matter grow, including the OSX86 community and Psystar, it will urge Apple to release the OS to PC's. With the upcoming release of Snow Leopard being an Intel only 64-bit release, it is possible that Apple will release the system to PC's. It is also possible because Apple's neglect regarding the OSX86 could mean that they are using the resources available such as the boot loaders and many open kexts.

 

Most of my post is speculation and speculation only, but Apple will be pushed to release its OS to PC's in its upcoming release. The release is imminent. Buyer's of Apple Hardware will most likely continue to buy the hardware because of its elegant design and superb functionality, but there would be many people who would take a plunge into the mac world if OS X was available for their PC's. If OS X were to be released to PC's, there would be a spike in Mac application sales and production, eventually giving more profits to Apple.

 

It is unseen territory; it is something that Apple will eventually have to do.

[pontifex22]

I believe Apple will put out a version for PC. The Apple hardware has it's own realm. And people who want

a Mac will always buy one.

The reason Windows is being at 90% marketshare is not that it's superior, but in the minds of people.

People know it and don't know much else, therefore they use it.

 

To make a OS successfull you not only need a better OS, but a widely known better OS.

iPod, iPhone and MacBooks have made Apple widely known again. Also Vista helped.

 

To gain more marketshare/ to make more money (and that's what it's all about at the end)

you have to take it away from those who have the marketshare. This can't be done only

by selling the Apple hardware, but by also selling the OS for Pc's.

 

So it is then only a question of when.

I say one month before Windows 7 hits the market would be the best move for Apple.

[prowlingfox]

Get it out of your heads, apple is NOT going to release their OS for PC's! When you buy an Apple computer, you're not just buying the OS and some cheap parts thrown together, you're buying a complete Mac experience. They make most of their money off of their hardware sales (which of course comes bundled with Leopard) and if they release Leopard for PCs, they would be SCREWED because no one would buy their Mac's! Think straight!

[pontifex22]

This was straight.

 

10% on here will or have bought a Mac (OSX86 tryout) the rest I guess would love to buy a PC version.

 

And why will they be "SCREWED"? Do they build that ugly bad computers, so the only reason to

bite the "ugly Mac bullet" is cos it's OS is brilliant? (Most money is made through iPod by the way)

 

And sure I understand: there is no money to be made on selling software, look at poor Microsoft and their

almost starving and long forgotten former CEO.

[slacker25]

@Zaap and how would you imagine developers come up with stuff ... hmmm they imagine it first then make it and there is nothing wrong with the hardware they use now ... just cause apple and intel has a deal does not mean you are entitled to do what you will with it.....

 

HMMM everyone thinks they will make it for pc ... ummm nope thats more then something you imagined ... KEEP believing in pipe dreams until it gives ya a head ache cause it isnt happening

[prowlingfox]

they would be SCREWED because no one would have any reason to buy a Mac. They would forget all about the whole experience because they'd be fed B.S. like what Psystar is doing. Oh it's a mac it's exactly like a mac blah blah. They would lose all of their hardware sales and their entire line of computers would be in the red.

[pontifex22]

Well I don't get the pipe dream logic here:

 

a. They would then be feed with Psystar B. S., right?

b. By some mystical something they then forget about Macs and the Mac experiance and

c. Won't buy macs, cos they are so screwed by OS X on PC that they don't ever buy their experiance even if

they wan't to.

 

Well have you any logical claims why Apple won't put OS X on PCs? I mean some real reasons,

not the mantra: They will loose ALL their sales - why? cos they will, yes, but why? cos I say so...