Psystar claims Apple doesn't own rights on OS X

[prowlingfox]

Its more like up till now they have not cared much this site is large but not enough for them to care untill the works of psystar got out there and now they just letting it stay so they can learn to lock the system down more.

 

probably

[your mother]

If Apple REALLY wanted to kill OSx86 they would've done it a long time ago by including a TMP chip or some other hardware device to stop OSX from installing/running or at least make it a real PITA. Apple isn't losing any significant business by having people run OSX on generic hardware, in fact they actually sell OSX disks to people who otherwise would never buy their pre-built PCs. Once Jobs steps down there's a very good chance that Apple will license OSX to other system builders since more and more of their revenue is being generated by itunes, iphones and software sales.

[og-phantom]

If Apple REALLY wanted to kill OSx86 they would've done it a long time ago by including a TMP chip or some other hardware device to stop OSX from installing/running or at least make it a real PITA. Apple isn't losing any significant business by having people run OSX on generic hardware, in fact they actually sell OSX disks to people who otherwise would never buy their pre-built PCs. Once Jobs steps down there's a very good chance that Apple will license OSX to other system builders since more and more of their revenue is being generated by itunes, iphones and software sales.

Actually there is a TPM chip on Macs, it's just unused at this point. See this;

http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2006/04...he_evil_drm.htm

 

Now, if the chips are still installed in current Macs, I don't know. But that article does state, the first Intel Core2 iMacs DO have the TPM chip, leads me to believe they are in all the lineup. Having been a Apple user since the 512k Mac, I will tell you this, Mac OS and Macintosh are so intertwined, only an act of God will bring Mac OS to be sold to non-Apple hardware (Legally by Apple). And, last I checked, God has other things to do than to worry about us running Mac OS on beige boxes. In other words, don't hold your breath.

 

Is Apple losing revenue? Look at Psycrap, they are selling hardware bundled with Mac OS. Wait, that's what Apple does.... iTunes doesn't generate the revenue that you would think it might. 99c a song. Apple doesn't pocket that whole 99c. There is another thread here that does the break down. Profit wise, it's a penny or two a song profit for Apple. iPod, iPhone. They do generate alot of sales, HARDWARE sales. Both run a mobile version of.... Mac OS X. Apple Macs... -> Hardware sales. Apple makes it's money on hardware. The software sales are designed to boost that. A boxed copy of Leopard is what, 129 or so, that's nothing compared to a 2,799 Macbook Pro. Think about it. After Steve leaves, the Apple philosophy will not change. Hardware is where the money is (for Apple).

[your mother]

Actually there is a TPM chip on Macs, it's just unused at this point. See this;

http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2006/04...he_evil_drm.htm

 

Now, if the chips are still installed in current Macs, I don't know. But that article does state, the first Intel Core2 iMacs DO have the TPM chip, leads me to believe they are in all the lineup. Having been a Apple user since the 512k Mac, I will tell you this, Mac OS and Macintosh are so intertwined, only an act of God will bring Mac OS to be sold to non-Apple hardware (Legally by Apple). And, last I checked, God has other things to do than to worry about us running Mac OS on beige boxes. In other words, don't hold your breath.

 

Is Apple losing revenue? Look at Psycrap, they are selling hardware bundled with Mac OS. Wait, that's what Apple does.... iTunes doesn't generate the revenue that you would think it might. 99c a song. Apple doesn't pocket that whole 99c. There is another thread here that does the break down. Profit wise, it's a penny or two a song profit for Apple. iPod, iPhone. They do generate alot of sales, HARDWARE sales. Both run a mobile version of.... Mac OS X. Apple Macs... -> Hardware sales. Apple makes it's money on hardware. The software sales are designed to boost that. A boxed copy of Leopard is what, 129 or so, that's nothing compared to a 2,799 Macbook Pro. Think about it. After Steve leaves, the Apple philosophy will not change. Hardware is where the money is (for Apple).

 

You do make some good points however after Jobs is gone and with the Intel transition complete with Snow Leopard dropping PPC support imo the writing is on the wall and it's only a matter of time until OSX is licensed out to other vendors. With more and more people becoming dissatisfied with the windows experience Apple could score some great sweetheart deals with OEMs to rake in the $$$.

[slacker25]

@your mom .... stop assuming jobs is whats preventing it ... he is the CEO but that doesnt mean the share holders and the rest of apple couldnt just shove him out the door if they wanted to .... they have done it before

 

and its apple mac not steve mac .... they dont want it out there any more then he does and when he leaves who ever replaces him will follow in line too and honestly i preffer it the way they do cause i dont see a hack running as good as the real thing

[pontifex22]

As I said before it is about money at the end. They will sell their notebooks no matter what others have to offer else, cos

the product is great. There is no danger in loosing hardware sales on iPod, iPhone and other mobile hardware gadgeds they

might come up with. The next upcomming Mac mini is set for home entertainment i guess and it is cheap enough for a lot of middle class consumers to have in ther living room. So loosing hardware sales is only about iMac and Power Mac.

You can't get someting decent in the iMac form factor (all in one), so it's just up to Power Mac. Power Macs mainly are for

professionals and it's very likely that they will stick to their prooven guns.

 

So what's to gain? A shot at all those PCs out there. 30-40% market share as og-phantom said could be.

And some after having a OS X expeariance, even might buy a notebook or iMac.

[noel646b]

You do make some good points however after Jobs is gone and with the Intel transition complete with Snow Leopard dropping PPC support imo the writing is on the wall and it's only a matter of time until OSX is licensed out to other vendors. With more and more people becoming dissatisfied with the windows experience Apple could score some great sweetheart deals with OEMs to rake in the $$$.

 

 

Yes, just to add to what you said, Apple makes more money on hardware than software, but I think they have realized that Microsoft makes more money than them by licensing their crappy outdated windows os to most of the pc makers and pc users in the world. So now Apple needs to see one thing, their loyal customers who buy apple made hardware will always buy it from them and the others who want a cheap alternative but stable secure performance and will pay for an os x license. The more apple waits to license Mac os x to non apple hardware, the more money they will loose (people is already running it). Bottom line is, Apple license os x and charge $200 per copy or license DELL IBM HP & ASUS with advertised bootcamp features and triple their revenue.

 

P.D. Apple engineers are looking at this forum and youtube (who knows, they may be members already LOL), overall is not a big problem for apple, they might even be smiling when seeing regular pc's and laptops running mac os x on youtube. They might be saying let's do this and and take a big chunk of the pc market. Remember the news long ago, Dell's ceo made a public statement of interest in licensing os x on dell hardware, Dell is a major player in goverment accounts. And one last comment, yes, it is Steve jobs who holds back apple due to his policy of "selective marketing", look at itunes store, he made it a windows and mac software and it has been the biggest succes in sales of songs and ipods, look at intel migration, sales of macs have being increasing ever since. I think by now He is getting the Idea.

[slacker25]

apple devs a member already .... um they was running OSX on a dell before intel macs existed so im sure they really dont care

[redratfish]

Psystar SHOULD WIN . APPLE MAKES TOO MUCH MONEY. and they give back nothing to the poor. they use cheap labor to make there macs then sell them at 8 times the price. just like the music and film bis they are all loosing out now from internet limewire, torrent downloads. so why should apple have a strong hold in the world . who are they. they can all kiss my fat as**. those apple scums think because they have so much money. they can do what every they feel like

 

eg. apple close down a normal guys shop because he uses an apple for his logo that looks slightly like the apple logo. who are these scums. well they are the scums that rip off small programmers. with lawyers and bribe with there money. you people should do a bit of digging and read up on the hidden scams and corruption that the apple corporation do.

i wish Psystar all the best and i hope they find a way to win the case. and take down the big beast. apple.

[slacker25]

Hmmm if this is going to turn into the bill gates charity Bull {censored} post then .... consider the fact that the only reason he will do this is so no one takes hiw money when he dies like the gov...... which in turn makes him greedy cuase everyone accept him is stuggling in some way to make $$ and our gov keeps printing $$ like its candy and making our $$ worthless and gates could just leave it all to our gov and maybe we alll can stop struggling just a little but no.... greedy bastards like that get a pat of the back for finding a way to be greedy even after he is gone .... but yet apple who does biz the way they do cause a company like micro suckers exist that kills the idea of free open enterprise by stealing most every thing they have done.All just so apple can stuggle on a smaller market to make a product that people are happy with.

[Synaesthesia]

Psystar SHOULD WIN . APPLE MAKES TOO MUCH MONEY. and they give back nothing to the poor. they use cheap labor to make there macs then sell them at 8 times the price.

OK. So which computer or electronics manufacturer "gives back to the poor" or doesn't use cheap labour?

 

You should see some of the frauds that Microsoft has pulled in their history.

 

I'm not saying Apple are saints, but they are what they are - a large corporation.

[noel646b]

apple devs a member already .... um they was running OSX on a dell before intel macs existed so im sure they really dont care

I meant it in a sense of spying on us, is just a childish thought (is a forum!). I said "may be" , just going with the flow of the conversation. Cheers.

 

P.D. Apple does check everything on the web, they are more controlling about their product than what most people think. see link http://vadi-blog.com/2008/07/30/apple-trie...va-la-el-tunes/. Also here in the us as compared to other countries, consumer advocacy is very poor.

[Neilis]

Pystar is annoying, but I would like to see Apple release a version of OS X to licensed vendors. Before everyone chimes in with "ZOMG Apple makes most of it's money from teh hardwarez!!!111", think about it for a minute:

 

Lets assume the Apple does make most of it's money from it's hardware sales. Now, lets assume that OS X is licensed out. We have basically two possible outcomes:

 

a) People really were buying Apple for their hardware, and hence will continue to buy Apple hardware regardless.

 

or

 

If Apple's hardware sales drop, then that means that OS X was what they were really after anyways, in which case we've effectively proven that people really didn't want Apple's hardware anyways, and hence OS X should sell well enough to support them just fine (and possibly boost revenue).

 

In any event, I can't believe that no one recognizes the oddball nature of combining these two premises: "Apple is a hardware company, not a software company." and "Licensing OS X would kill Apple's hardware business.". Whenever you're banking on selling the side of your products that people want LEAST then you've got some issues. Apple is just using it's (very good) OS to prop up it's overpriced hardware.

 

It'd be like a place opening down the street selling trendy looking, but cheaply made glass plates for $50 each but they just happen to include some of the best sushi in the world on them for free. Doesn't matter if they're making money a smart business would figure out how to leverage that good sushi and charge for it since it's what people want, rather than still selling the goofy little plates.

[~T.E.K.B.O.I.~]

Well if apple lowered their rediculous prices and updated their hardware more often then maybe companies like Phystar would fad away. But unfortunately apple just doesn't give a {censored} about the consumers anymore and the end result of that is phystar. Can't blame them for doing for people what apple refuses to do.

 

Macworld was a CLEAR sign that apple is falling off. And they are just NOT listening to the consumers at all. If they would quit trying to rip their consumers and quit being greedy maybe this wouldn't be a problem at all.

[pontifex22]

Don't judge Apple just on this Macworld, there will be special events and they got lots of stuff in the pipe.

There is a reason for having booked Tony Bennett.

[Maxintosh]

Well if apple lowered their rediculous prices and blah blah blah

This no longer holds water. The Mac mini was an incredible deal when it was current. If it gets all of the updates as rumored and is released later this month, it will still be an incredible deal for everything that you get. Look at what Apple charges (129) for their OS compared to what MS charges (179-359) for theirs. OS X is a down right BARGAIN! The new Apple Mac Box Set is an even more incredible deal. I think only their laptops are over priced, but give me a good reason why Apple should lower their price on their laptops when it is Apples hottest selling item

 

There is a reason for having booked Tony Bennett

And there's a reason they picked that song "The best is yet to come" too

 

By the end of the year I'm betting we'll see; Snow Leopard (released after they win this court case), Organic displays, a new Mac mini, a 64 Gb Touch, and a nano iPhone!

[pontifex22]

And there's a reason they picked that song "The best is yet to come" too

 

I thought it was just about Tony Bennett

[slacker25]

@Maxintosh ... thakns for more common sence its lacking around here .... but i would put OSX in the feature line up that windows server has and 400$ just wont cover that so pry closer to 1k$ + unless you buying some OEM server edition.

[DiGiCiD@L]

This no longer holds water. The Mac mini was an incredible deal when it was current. If it gets all of the updates as rumored and is released later this month, it will still be an incredible deal for everything that you get. Look at what Apple charges (129) for their OS compared to what MS charges (179-359) for theirs. OS X is a down right BARGAIN!

 

OK... "is released later this month" - source? Because it's 'been coming' for quite awhile and yet we still don't have it. And OSX is $129 ONLY for those that already paid a premium for Apple hardware - of course it was a bargain for me... I paid $199 for the family disk and "illegally" loaded it on 3 PC's and my Mini. That's a steal - and as far as the official line of Apple goes... it IS stealing!

 

If I include the difference in cost between a Dell/Sony/Toshiba laptop of comprable features with vista to a MB/MBP - the difference is not so clear. Sure it won't look as 'sexy' as the MB does - but it could even have a faster processor, blu-ray, dual SATA RAID, nVidia SLI, and so on...

 

Just compare the top of the line XPS M1730 to the MBP 17" the price AND the specs - now how much did OSX cost ya?

 

Sorry, but Apple (for me at least) has always been about selling last years hardware and next years prices... with a pretty case on it. Now you are welcome to disagree - and I'm sure you will, but the bottom line is that all big corporations are in it for the money... however, some strive to give the consumer what they are asking for - and others give the consumer what they feel like offering... regardless of what they might ask for.

 

I've already adjusted my AAPL holdings according to my perceptions... and so far I've done very well... I'm not ready to post a short position yet... but I think Apple, Inc. has a rude awakening coming in the new economic environment.

[slacker25]

ok one more time to show on this forum http://www.dell.com/content/products/produ...;l=en&s=bsd this is a dell that would be possibly i say possibly cause dell is a POS.

 

the same quality and close to same specs the new mac boo pro 17" ......its more then 1k$ more

 

 

DO not compare some cheap ass dell hardware to the mac with out considering quality ... dell hp and compaq have higher quality too so look at those they are {censored} load more then the apple

[Maxintosh]

OK... "is released later this month" - source?

Read what is written, and not just what you want to read. The COMPLETE sentence reads :"If it gets all of the updates as rumored and is released later this month..."

[noel646b]

ok one more time to show on this forum http://www.dell.com/content/products/produ...;l=en&s=bsd this is a dell that would be possibly i say possibly cause dell is a POS.

 

the same quality and close to same specs the new mac boo pro 17" ......its more then 1k$ more

DO not compare some cheap ass dell hardware to the mac with out considering quality ... dell hp and compaq have higher quality too so look at those they are {censored} load more then the apple

 

In about a year that machine will be 50% discounted and it will run os x super fine. That's a dream machine.

[Guest cavallo]

Power supply platfform quality protected by rights, on which Apple pays and surcharges customers, is the difference.

There will not be any Efix, Psystar or better and cheaper hardware to let something being or approching a Mac,

also a universal licenced Osx will not change anything.

[DiGiCiD@L]

ok one more time to show on this forum http://www.dell.com/content/products/produ...;l=en&s=bsd this is a dell that would be possibly i say possibly cause dell is a POS.

 

I hear that all the time, but Dell products (I have over 60 workstations and 15 laptops that I manage at work, which are all Dell's) have always been reliable. I've had 2 MB's (not MBP's however) fail in the time that I've had my Inspiron (with the 17" glossy LCD) - which I've had since Dec. 2005 (it didn't come with the glossy... but I was able to buy the screen and upgrade it myself for less than $100). I've also had nothing but great experiences with their support, but I understand that my experiences are not the same as someone that does not buy $20K worth of hardware from then each year.

 

My laptop's definitely not a speed demon any longer (it is 3 years old after all) but it still runs great at 1920X1200 and no failures or broken case pieces, etc... I'm not saying that Apples are POS's - they are fantastically made - but they're not indestructable, and now that the battery is a non-user-serviceable part... I can see them being in for service more often than before.

 

Yes the Precision M6400 is more money... it's also much more laptop! It supports twice the RAM that the MBP does, it has eSata and a much better video card with 1GB of dedicated RAM for video, it's battery is removeable, it has a faster hard drive (although only 160GB) - and what's more... it's CONFIGURABLE! If I'm willing to pay for it, I could get it with a QX9300 Core2Quad or with a couple of 320GB 7200RPM hard drives in an onboard RAID configuration of my choice (0/1).

 

I assume when you bring this up as a 'quality' comparison that you are referring to the shiny aluminum case - I can't argue with you there... in fact, I can't argue against the number one reason you probably buy a MBP in the first place... it's the same reason my wife wanted a Louis Vuitton despite the fact that a $10 bag from KMart holds just as much stuff.

 

Apples (all of them in fact) look better than anything else on the market - but when it comes time to upgrade my Inspiron - I may not buy a Dell... but I'm sure not going to waste my money on a MBP either. You don't have to agree... I'm used to hearing that attitude, especially from Apple fans. For me Apple is only useful for one thing, and that is maintaining and updating an OS that I enjoy using as a hobby - I'll still use Linux for anything I want stability and security for, and Windows for anything I want to do that's fun. Obviously you have chosen Apple as your preferred tool... and I'm happy for you - but not all needs are the same, and for me Apple hardware is extra money for outdated {censored} - it's an OPINION - you're welcome to disagree.

[slacker25]

@cavallo.... well put