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The Dumbing Down of osx86


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#21
f41qu3

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I vote for Hagar.

#22
aylamrin

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Guys, I think its not a sin if somebody is uncomfortable with UNIX commands. Its perfectly OK. However there are many people who do not do enough homework before shooting a PM or putting another dumb topic. Nobody would scream at you if you say that I do not know how grep works or how to use sed to replace Dev IDS inside plist files. But it is encouraged that you spend a little more effort before shooting questions. In that way you can be more specific as what your problem is, and people may help you in a far efficient way. Also, please be absolutely sure that you have searched the forum exhaustively, (I know that the search does not work, however there is always Google). If the solution does not exist till date, (e.g support for a non supported hardware) you probably need to be more patient. There is no point in bugging others. You may also want to do some research yourself, if that suits you. If you can't spend time, spend some money instead, get a supported hardware (mobo, gfx card, LAN card whatever). And lastly, it had taken years to come together, to put it all together, nobody wants somebody to leave. Its a human nature that we would fight among ourselves, but tried not to hurt others. ;)

#23
Alessandro17

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Exactly, nirmalya, and I want to stress this part of your post:

spend some money, get supported hardware (mobo, gfx card, LAN card whatever).


As I am saying in this thread:

http://forum.insanel...mp;#entry881272

But I am talking to the walls.

#24
bofors

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But wait.. there is much confusion.. rumours & hearsay become "accepted fact", issues real & imagined and their fixes abound all over the place.. if so much progress has happened, why would this be?


This has always been the case with OSx86.

Frankly, I think the issues you described have little to do with "simplification" or "dumbing down", but rather are do to the shear size of the OSx86 community.

This forum now has 247,774 registered users, plus there are an untold number of satellite forums, blogs and such, not to mention the commercialization of OSx86. This obviously means more choices for OSx86 distros, tools, kexts, kernels, etc... I am sure Linux went through the same natural, organic process.

Now regarding "simplification" or transitions in OSx86, what should be noted here is the "vanilla" revolution. Instead of jacking around with largely redundant torrents, one only needs to get the bare version of OS X and one can get it directly from Apple, likewise with updates.

Is "vanilla" a simplification? It certainly is for me, but some n00bs will certianly find a good distro to be simpler.

Does "vanilla" lead to "dumbing down"? No, users still need to find the right kexts needed for their specific hardware.

Finally, "dumbing down" and simplification is what Macintosh is supposed to be about. I don't run OS X because it is a complicated and difficult operating system. No, quite the opposite is true.

#25
Alessandro17

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This has always been the case with OSx86.


But would you agree with me that a couple of years ago it seemed to be clear to everybody that if you were serious about running OS X you'd buy supported hardware only?
That is what I did, I followed your tutorials and I build 3 perfectly working hackintoshes.

And BTW, I believe there is a need for an updated one , because after the Bad Axe 2 it isn't all that clear to new comers which motherboard to buy.

#26
Running With Scissors

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If that was the case we would all be using command line operating systems with no gui.

I want an easy life if something can be done with a few clicks on a pretty gui rather than entering in reams of text you would be mad not to use it.

Of-course if a simple option is not available try more advanced methods.

Yes people need guides someone new to osx86 hearing words like EFI, ICH7 and SSE3 are not going to have a clue what they mean.

Lighten up and help people out, you never know maybe one day you will need help.

#27
Alessandro17

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Lighten up and help people out, you never know maybe one day you will need help.


Trouble is, people don't search, don't read the wiki, start the same topics all over again, they can't ask (how can I help you if I have no clue about your hardware?) and they don't seem to understand a simple fact: OSx86 won't work on every hardware.

#28
fatshitcat

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(..) and they don't seem to understand a simple fact: OSx86 won't work on every hardware.

100% agreed. I mean I built my system for running OS X on it.

#29
PainWarlock

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When i went into linux (first before osx86). I had to learn alot of things which thank goodness i still know now. my hole hard drive is devoted to ubuntu(quite sad) and the other computer i have is devoted to ipcop.

I wanted to try arch linux, so I could really get down and dirty. But I couldnt because my dad needs a "gui", anyway when I had first started linux. I didnt even know how to accept the eula for java and set the locales i was copying pasting all kinds of commands, until finaly i came across trying to play some games and destroyed my X11 :-/.

It was a bloated little bugger, ubuntu ultimate edition 1.3 when it updated over 1.3gb was installed took up 60 gig of my hard drive aswell. As in this flavour of ubuntu was {censored}

I became a windows fanboy bcus of all the {censored} i had with linux. ROFL

I then went back to ubuntu 2 years ago. I started trying other linus's aswell. I started getting extremely good with terminal commands and looking after networks with ipcop. I started playing with server distros.

I then came across osx86 i looked at it and said to my self hmmm. I might have to learn what the terminal language is, cus i had no idea about apples products. I found out it was bash and i was like omfg ran to a torrent site looked at my hardware and said ok im going to tripple boot osx86 on my computer i put the disk in i then learnt about my graphics card not supported and the audio but that was fixed with a kext and a little package.

I used the knowledge i learnt from linux. I even found a driver making page and was about to make a driver for my gpu but i had to reformat the hd :-/

But i must say thank you to this community and the gnu*nix communtiy aswell it has been great and im not going to stop.

I am being interviewed at a major company next week for learning all that I have learnt. I wouldnt have done it without you guys. so thank you

#30
MacUser2525

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when i went into linux first before osx86 i had to learn aloty of things which thank goodness i still know my hole hard is devoted to ubuntu and the other computer i have is devoted to ipcop i wanted to try arch linux so i could really get down and dirty but i couldnt because my needs a "gui" but anyway when i have first started linux i didnt even know how to accept the eula and set the locales i was copying pasting all kinds of {censored} until finaly i came across trying to play some games and destroyed my X11 :-/ it was a bloated little bugger anyway ubuntu ultimate edition 1.3 when it updated over 1.3gb was installed took up 60 gig of my hard drive aswell i learnt from that but for a while i became a windows fanboy bcus of all the {censored} i had with linux i then went back to ubuntu 2 years ago i started trying other linus's aswell i started getting extremely good with terminal commands and looking after networks with ipcop i started playing with server distros i am now being interviewed at a major company for server operator thank you linus torvalds


Hopefully there is no writing involved in the interview...

#31
french squared

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well written, sorry if I am a pain.
I do actually try to search the forum first.
I always know my hardware, but I still ask some of the same questions.

Thank You all for doing the hard stuff for me.

#32
martin15s

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way to go Hagar - this could be a stickie??

#33
bofors

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But would you agree with me that a couple of years ago it seemed to be clear to everybody that if you were serious about running OS X you'd buy supported hardware only?


While that may have been clear to you and I, it certainly was not to others and I suspect that Jas in particular would still argue against you here.

There have almost always been two OSx86 camps:

( A ) People who want to run OS X on the PC hardware they already have.

( B ) People who want want to build perfect Hackintoshes.


Unlike most people in the early OSx86 scene, I was strictly a Mac user. I did not own a PC per se, only Macs. It took me awhile to be convinced that building a Hackintosh was a good idea for me too, in fact I was seriously considering a Quad G5 before I made the decision to go ahead and make the switch to x86 ahead of the Apple schedule. Even then, I thought my first Hackintosh would be merely a transitional tool, something I used until Mac Pro's were available. Obviously, OSx86 technology has come a long way since then and I now am fully committed (however, I still intend to purchase only Apple laptops).

#34
Chris Mills

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Awesome thread Hagar from a relative n00b who makes mistakes, then tries to work out WHY things have gone wrong rather than just be a "whiny little bitch".

Yes some people want it all on a plate. Well to those guys I have some news. By and large IT IS... there is a search function on this forum.

Most of your questions have already been answered.

If they haven't then ask away, but provide some detail. Be prepared to be told "it isn't compatible"

If you are getting a KP that you don't understand, boot with -v and provide a screen dump.

Look for your hardware and provide vendor and device IDs. If you have a dual boot system with Windows, then Boot into Windows and look in device manager. Then look at the HCLs. Is it there? If not be prepared for being told it isn't compatible. If you want to prove them wrong, start looking at kexts. But be prepared for a lot of heartache getting it to work.

If you don't have Windows, download a knoppix CD and refer to the above paragraph using lspci.

OSX86 when you have it working fully is awesome. But half the fun is getting there. You can be a n00b and use it, however be prepared for a steep learning curve, and always ensure you have some kind of backup OS until you are completely happy and know what you are doing. If you want a trouble free installation of OSX, then save and buy a Mac. You then have all the tech support you need.

#35
vbetts

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That's right! You gotta learn how to do it!

#36
socal swimmer

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all the noobs on IRC that i have encountered seem like retarded noobs that dont know anything, and usually its somewhat true at first. As i walk them through, though, they seem to pick stuff up and by the end i think they know what they are doing somewhat.


well there was also earlier today, when i got in an argument with a mod because i disagreed with him. lulz.


tl;dr: be easy on them, the noobs are usually willing to learn

#37
Chris Mills

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tl;dr: be easy on them, the noobs are usually willing to learn


Some are, and those n00bs normally receive help because they provide information about what they have tried and about the results of what they have done. Those people certainly get help and don't generally get abuse.

Those that expect everything to just work and don't do their research deserve all the abuse they get.

#38
MacUser2525

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Some are, and those n00bs normally receive help because they provide information about what they have tried and about the results of what they have done. Those people certainly get help and don't generally get abuse.

Those that expect everything to just work and don't do their research deserve all the abuse they get.


They don't deserve abuse if they will not listen to good advice then they deserve to be ignored if they continue and become a nuisance ban them.

#39
justvisiting

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me so dumb
you so smart
you feel smarter by making me feel so dumber!


is this what its about ?? sad

if the cycle of "someone's behavior -> your response" is affecting your life, only YOU can control your response. there are more important things in life.

#40
alyosa2001

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I'm sorry to say Hagar and all others, but what are you trying to say? did you unfold the mysteries of the computing science? did you invent the transistors, did you write the software, did you build the hardwares, did you draw the interfaces all by yourself ?
I suppose you must have done it, and so have all the people agreeing with you, in which case case i say "WOOOOOOWW", you DO HAVE the rights too keep all the INFO to yourselves, do not answer questions, but then again, NEITHER ASK!





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