Will New Intel Macs Run Windows?

Who cares about windows. I havn't used it since 1996. What I want to know is... Will it run Linux?

Yes - a linux variant comes with macs, it's called OSX.

;-)

sorry, somebody had to say it

Well, a kinda-sorta BSD Unix variant does, anyway.

As for wanting hardware compatibility, then why does ATi need custom firmware?

I think that Apple will get a huge Linux crowd following. Finally, Linux users get the Unix command line and the wife gets the Mac on the same machine. This is finally the so-called "Linux on the Desktop" offering.

It might hurt Novel and Red Hat also - but as a server architecture, OSX has proven to suck due to it's micro-kernel architecture and thread handling.

No more Gnome vs KDE battle.

Well close enough anyways! Open Source stuff is easilly portable to Darwin. Apple is banking on open source projects migrating to Mac to boost the developper knowledge at large.

I bet you that the so-called protective measures to prevent MacOSX from running on a Standard PC will be by design "relatively weak". If the Mac OS would be ofiicially available to PC users, it would be a support nightmare for Apple because of the lack of drivers available for the millions of possible permutations of the PC platform.

I predict that wthin 18 months, Dell or HP will license the MacOS.

As for wanting hardware compatibility, then why does ATi need custom firmware?

Maybe it's needed to communicate with EFI?

Maybe it's needed to communicate with EFI?

Oh, that is my idea, too. I just thought that if someone put in the compatibility layer, it made things like this not necessary (thereby implying Apple didn't put it in)... But, we'll know soon enough whenever someone actually gets one of these new boxes.

Link?

What? You're not going to do my bidding either? So, first you want to steal poor Steve Job's OS X and run it on your dirty little box, and now this? Hey, being a billionaire is not cheap, it takes lot's of money!

Apple patent application describes Intel-based Macs that run Mac OS X and Microsoft Windows

 

Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 12:55 AM EST

 

"Here's some new ammunition for those who think Apple's move to Intel processors is about building computers that can run both Mac and Windows applications," Sandy McMurray writes for Corante. "Apple's U.S. patent application 0050246554 ('System and method for creating tamper-resistant code') describes scenarios in which the user would choose a 'first operating system' and a 'second operating system' from a set that includes Mac OS X, Microsoft Windows, and Linux. There's also mention of a virtual machine, and the option to choose between 'Macintosh computer' and 'Windows PC.'"

 

McMurray writes, "When Windows Vista ships, Microsoft will encourage users to upgrade. Many home computers will be unable to meet Vista's minimum system requirements... Apple has more than a year to come up with a competitively priced computer capable of running both Mac and Windows applications. It could run both systems at once, or -- as the patent seems to suggest -- run one system natively and the other in a virtual machine... Michael Dell should be concerned. So should HP, Gateway, Lenovo/IBM, and every other Windows PC maker. Apple controls OS X, and does not license it to others. Therefore, only Apple can build a personal computer capable of running Windows and Mac OS X."

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/webl...un_mac_and_win/

http://www.corante.com/apple/archives/2005...s_and_linux.php

Patent link: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser...=Apple+Computer

VT would certainly help in that 'virtual machine' reference.

my feeling is Apple will unleash their strategy when Vista comes out. maybe that's why they didn't even bother with XP compatibility....they are targeting Vista and will include virtualization in Leopard?

Imagine Apple holds a special keynote event on the day Vista launches and Apple strikes Microsoft by surprise along with the release of Leopard. Seeing how Apple's the media's darling these days, detailing Apple's plan on the day of Vista launch will totally cripple Microsoft's marketing plans for Vista

detailing Apple's plan on the day of Vista launch will totally cripple Microsoft's marketing plans for Vista

Explain this assertion please.

Maybe I'm missing something but MS just received the gift of more available market. How can that be a bad thing? In terms of MS contracts with ne machne manufacturers: there's not enough of a crossover audience. So MS still gets huge volume licensing deals for Vista with PC mfgs and gets incremental revenue opportunity on the 5% of the market that Mac sales comprise.

Now here's an interesting question for you though: do you think that Microsoft would leave this to Apple entirely? Especially when considering their copy protection scheme? How are you going to run a legitimate copy of XP when its copy protection scheme binds to the hardware? So if apple and MS are in discussions (which they are) it is likely that MS got apple to prevent Windows XP from booting, and that Vista will be fully copy protected so the incremental revenue opportunity is secure.

{censored}! I just defeated the reason for having that iMac on order. Oh well, the order isn't getting canceled regardless!

Uhh... Windows XP Media Center 2005 has EFI support.

Dont believe me? Check out this screenshot I made of my computer.

You can find these files by going into the Tools menu in Explorer, then to Folder Options, then to View, then uncheck the box for hiding Operating System files.

Enjoy.

Someone try a XP SP2 disc on their iMac and lemme know what happens.

Uhh... Windows XP Media Center 2005 has EFI support.

 

Dont believe me? Check out this screenshot I made of my computer.

 

You can find these files by going into the Tools menu in Explorer, then to Folder Options, then to View, then uncheck the box for hiding Operating System files.

 

Enjoy.

 

Someone try a XP SP2 disc on their iMac and lemme know what happens.

that's very interesting. Someone should look into this

Interesting indeed. I have MCE2005 here at home, but I won't have a MBP to test on until sometime in February.

Apperently, the Gateway 610 Media Center used EFI!

Time for googling.

In this article:

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-985600.html

Gateway, which uses EFI in its all-in-one Gateway 610 Media Center desktop, said it chose to do so because EFI proved a more efficient way to code preboot software and can also help to improve the product from a long-term development perspective, a company representative said.

OK just read through 5 pages of this topic and my head is spinning. Lets see if i can summarise it right?

No current version of windows will run on an intel mac because of EFI. Either because it won't boot - or even if it does using the CSM layer, it won't be able to read the drives in the apple intel boxes because of GPT. Vista is still an unknown quantity.

Second thing is the whole virtualisation thingie - did anyone ever find out for definite whether the core duo's currently have hardware vt enabled? To be honest i would find running windows in a virtual machine more convenient than having to reboot whenever i wanted to access it. Surely theres also the possibility you could dedicate one of the core solely to the guest OS?

This was a little of topic but someone mentioned the mbu 5 year commitment - i think this was a very odd announcement. What possible reason has microsoft got to publicly commiting to the mac? It won't increase sales and office on mac is doing better than it ever has. This announcement only serves to benefit apple by encouraging people to switch to mac in the assurance that they will be compatible. The number was odd as well - why didn't they commit to a specific number of new releases. In reality 5 years could translate to 1 more major revision. I reckon this is apples plan to keep them compatible while their engineers develop a pro office suite (probably from open office) that is fully compatible with microsoft's.

OK just read through 5 pages of this topic and my head is spinning. Lets see if i can summarise it right?

 

No current version of windows will run on an intel mac because of EFI. Either because it won't boot - or even if it does using the CSM layer, it won't be able to read the drives in the apple intel boxes because of GPT. Vista is still an unknown quantity.

My previous post mentions that Gateway does have some PCs (Media Centers) that boot XP with EFI. Someone also found some references to EFI in XP Media Center. So I think that it won't take time to get XP running on a Mac.

Just by the language used by Apple, we can tell. They could say "XP doesn't currently run on our Macs" but they are saying that they won's stop or support people who want to. Their message is consistant and calculated. I think that Microsoft negociated that with their 5 year Ofiice deal.

Apple WANTS windows to run on Macs or they will fall victim of people who pirate OSX to run on regular PCs. If MACS can dual boot Windows, they immediatley have an advantage over every other large PC maker. ON the olther hand, they don't want to officially support it because it would send the wrong message to OSX devloppers - that they badly need during the transitionnal stage.

I think that Apple is working on virtualization technology that will allow concurrent OSX + windows/Linux to run at the same time. It would probably ship built-in. No other PC manufacturer could do that without having a license to the MACOS - which they will never get. There's also rumors that VMWARE is working on a MAC version.

They are hoping that in the end, people will end up running OSX because it's the best. It will increase their hardware sales and this feature will allow them to sell MAC at a justifiable premium ove other PC makes.

question for Reanimation (and those who have MCE w/ EFI)

does your PC boot up using EFI or BIOS? If you go into settings right when you boot up the computer, do you get the typical BIOS interface? or do you get something different?

question for Reanimation (and those who have MCE w/ EFI)

 

does your PC boot up using EFI or BIOS? If you go into settings right when you boot up the computer, do you get the typical BIOS interface? or do you get something different?

Also , is you MEDIA PC a Gateway?

I have found some information on VISTA boot information straight from the horse's mouth.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsvi...719d4af778.mspx

(screams) Yeah!

I wonder if all we have to do is use nLite to add stuff to our WinXP install discs! Wouldn't that be great! I'm sure there might have to be some very slight modifications to the code so that it work with any PC...

This is really cool... Adding functionality to XP.... hmmm. People have been using nLite and Command Line for years to do this sort of stuff so MS is probably O.K. with it.

Here are some key snippets of text from the site mentioned by scousi (thanks for the link ) :

Why don’t I see any Windows entries in the EFI boot manager? And why are there two boot managers?

 

All Windows entries are stored in the BCD store. On an EFI-based operating system, there is a single entry in the EFI firmware boot manager called “Windows Boot Manager”. This file is located in \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\Bootmgfw.efi. If you start Windows Boot Manager using the EFI boot manager, you should get a common look and feel on both your EFI-based and PC/AT-based operating systems. For example, the advanced boot options menu should work. The default timeout for the EFI boot manager is 2 seconds to make it easier to boot back and forth between Windows Server 2003 with Service Pack 1 and Windows Vista.

In a multiboot environment, does modifying BCD on the pre-Windows Vista operating system modify the boot configuration?

 

No. You need to modify BCD to alter the boot configuration for Windows Vista. You also need to modify Boot.ini (for BIOS-based operating systems) or NVRAM (for EFI-based operating systems) to alter boot configuration for the older operating systems.

I guess this means we have to edit the NVRAM. So if anyone knows how this is done - be my guest.

Edit. I just remebered... when I used to hang around the PearPC forums (before you had to sign up) they said that you shouldn't mess with the NVRAM unless you knew what you were doing. I'm guessing the PearPC devs. must know alot about this stuff then... I personally don't know a thing about coding - the closest thing is probably my somewhat decent commandline skills.

P.S. Check this out - Vista has a bootloader (finally!!!!!)

Can I disable BCD entirely when I am not booting to Windows Vista?

No. The boot manager for Windows Vista runs first to determine which operating system to start. Therefore, if you want to boot to the older operating system, you must set the default order to the older operating system in the BCD store. For more information, see How to change the default operating system entry.

about VPC: it's official. the microsoft girl said that on stage at the keynote. you can watch it on apple's website.

No, she did not. She mentioned that they are committed to unibin versions of Office and MS Messenger. No mention was made of VPC -- and MS just confirmed that VPC does not run under Rosetta, and never will (think about it!), and that they are working closely with Apple to make VPC work on intel Macs -- and I can assure you that it will not be a unibin version. If anything, there will be two versions, one for PPC and one for intel.

DD

as long as OS X "supports EFI" , which means that it uses PGI in conjunction with a MBR, the bootloader should act in the same way they do now. BIOS, EFI, none of that matters once the bootloader is in the memory. the question is: what is the OS X 10.4.4 bootloader like. hopefully it still has what everyone calls the 'Darwin bootloader'.

EFI/no EFi...

i've installed Windows Vista (beta) on my Acer TM 8100 and it works.

Maybe Vista uses usual BIOS, but installation process was not like Win Xp one, and there are many EFI in the root of install disk.

I want to say that if EFI doesn't supported by HW, it can be emulated or something like that, just me opinion.

How come everyone else gets into the Vista beta except for me! When/how did you sign up for it. I'm getting in all these other (dumb) MS beta's like Messenger, Onecare, and Monad. But, somehow they won't let me beta test Vista (I'm really good at finding bugs too - too good for them huh)

Back to the subject, from what I understand... which isn't too much, but enough. Anyone will be able to boot WinXP on Apple if it's the EFI it should be. If it's modified I'm guessing you will still be able to boot, only you will need to edit the NVRAM file (so change your install CD to do this somehow - possibly using a free app like nLite) and maybe you might need to get some files (.efi files, I suppose) so that the NVRAM hacking will work correctly.

As there are many developers out their who probably want this functionality I'm guessing we'll see a mini app that modifies the WinXP install disc if WinXP doesn't boot in Apple's EFI like it should.

By the way, I recently had my Compaq Presario's corrupted harddrive replaced by HP and the BIOS was a bit different. It loaded, and then It tried to connect to HP's LAN before it booted up Windows - isn't this what EFI does (I turned this feature off later, though, through the BIOS which looked the same - like before)?

KublaKhan

our computer guy at school has xp running on his new imac he said you need to mac a partition on your imac's drive clone over the freedos install cd then mac another then in osx select the folder that says unknown then it will start free dos from there you put the xp disk in the drive and go to the i386 directory and install it. When you reboot you will be in osx again then you select windows as your startup disk and it completes the install. He says you have to boot osx first then you can run windows after making it your start disc