Psystar Offers Non-Apple PC, with Leopard pre-installed.

[ Mysticus C*]

dude i m just making sarcastic joke you can buy whatever you like... we are not against you, we are against these clowns, they sell the machine and forward the support to this forum... i bet they will contribute to the traffic they will create, and contribute to the community to help finish more projects, like help developing drivers, instead of sell computers based on the known HCLs and forward the customers to this forum...

 

This is also fair, and I can live with that. The only thing I take exception to in your reply are the words "expect help from community". I'm not expecting anything.

 

As I said in my first post, I'm just someone who needs to cheaply and quickly add another Intel-based computer to my workflow that can run OSX. If it turns into more, and I can contribute something to this community, then hopefully I will be able to. You can label my identifier if you choose, but in the end I'm just another Macintosh lover and supporter, and also one who relies on OS X to run my business.

[frantisheq]

they will contribute to the traffic they will create, and contribute to the community to help finish more projects, like help developing drivers, instead of sell computers based on the known HCLs and forward the customers to this forum...

now that is a joke

[hansblix]

No matter what digheads these psystar guys are, they did something very pleasant to apple. How did Windows grow? Through illegal copies...so how do you think OSX will grow?

If more and more people come to this solution and apple wont make it to hard to get a hackintosh so the OS will expand very fast, as it is way better then the actual Windows.

I am just wondering if in 3 years I will begin to see a logical line between the first intel mac, some tough guys selling Leopard PCs and the first OSX officialy running on Dell Computers ;-)

[Canis Lupus]

That's cool, and I appreciate it. I agree 100% with you that these guys could be clowns, which is exactly why I came here . I wanted to see what the experts thought.

And believe me, after spending some time here reading some posts, I also agree that it's not very cool for them to profit from the hard work and dedication you guys obviously have put in. Hopefully I'll be able to do my small part to contribute in some way

 

 

 

dude i m just making sarcastic joke you can buy whatever you like... we are not against you, we are against these clowns, they sell the machine and forward the support to this forum... i bet they will contribute to the traffic they will create, and contribute to the community to help finish more projects, like help developing drivers, instead of sell computers based on the known HCLs and forward the customers to this forum...

[adam75south]

do you guys really want mac to turn into microsoft? part of what makes macs great is they're built using quality equipment by the source. do you really want an e-machines mac?

 

besides, if this was legal...then it wouldn't be fun anymore would it?

[Bri0s]

MS grew because people are able to build and upgrade there system(s).

 

If Apple's hardware was so much "better", they would not of had to switch to intel.

[idividebyzero]

A lot of crazy conspiracists here, this site is protected by the 1st amendment, Apple is not above the 1st amendment. Its been shut down before so they know what it takes to stay legal.

 

Im guessing the admins arent going to be too upset when they check out their google revenues from yesterday. If my site happened to be linked by almost every tech site in the world then I would probably be out shopping right now. Plus if they didnt link to insanelymac people would be bitching about not giving credit like they are with netkas (now its only a matter of time before people {censored} about bringing attention to netkas since they give credit now). Damned if you do damned if you dont. I dont know why people are so against selling prebuilt hackintoshes for what seems like a fair price but not against ads on a site that tells you how to build them, kind of hypocritical.

[hecker]

This has gotta be an april fools joke!

[rollcage]

MS grew because people are able to build and upgrade there system(s).

 

If Apple's hardware was so much "better", they would not of had to switch to intel.

 

Is it not possible that at one time the PowerPC chip was a better processor, but that eventually Intel outpaced it? People always seem to go with the argument that if a company is the better now, then it was always better.

 

I really think this could hurt Apple. People are going to be buying these machines, and are going to blame OSX an update breaks their system. And if the forums here start getting flooded with people looking for support, we might have to adopt a demonoid-like invitation/registration system.

 

There's no real legal way to install OSX on a PC not only because it's not Apple hardware, but because Apple doesn't sell an OEM version of OSX. Even if they're buying Leopard, it's still only an upgrade disc. I wonder where they're getting all the install discs from (I'm sure Apple won't be selling them any more!)?

[Canis Lupus]

Well FWIW, according to Steve Jobs, it was decided that the PowerPC would never be able to be fast enough as Intel, without generating too much heat - especially important for the Powerbooks - so could very well be, although he claims this decision was made years before the Intel mac was introduced. Who knows.

 

Is it not possible that at one time the PowerPC chip was a better processor, but that eventually Intel outpaced it? People always seem to go with the argument that if a company is the better now, then it was always better.

[Bri0s]

"Is it not possible that at one time the PowerPC chip was a better processor, but that eventually Intel outpaced it? People always seem to go with the argument that if a company is the better now, then it was always better."

 

 

Sure, but you don't see intel or AMD crawling to Apple for hardware help.

[DJ Loe Kee]

Psystar: Apple’s terms violate U.S. monopoly laws

 

 

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1685

 

Though, 2 negatives don't equal a positive...

 

But it does bring up a valid point -- are EULAs enforceable in law? Honestly, I believe not -- it just allows Apple to deny support to these people. So, if you buy one of these computers from Psystar, you can't call AppleCare for help. And since Psystar IS providing a new copy of Leopard, it IS legal.

 

So, chances are that Apple can't do squat. (unless the judge is a f--kwad, and gets suckered by Apple's lawyers)

 

Maybe InsanelyMac should start developing a paid support system

i'll quote myself. apple would win ANY lawsuit against psystar...

^if i remember correctly from a college business class (from class so i don't have any sources as proof), the courts have general sided with software companies when it comes to eulas.

 

the case was about if a consumer can try to say if they really didn't read the eula so that they didn't agree to the eula in the first place... but that they were forced to accept the eula in order to install the software. the software company won, not the consumer.

 

my source: "West's Business Law, Text and Cases, Legal, Ethical, International, and E-Commerce Environment Ninth Edition" by Kenneth W. Clarkson, Roger LeRoy Miller, Gaylord A. Jentz and Frank B. Cross, pages 334-337, with Cases "i.LAN systems, Inc. v. Netscout Service Level Corp." and "Specht v. Netscape Communications Corp." given as real lawsuits when the courts sides with the software company.

 

so if the courts follows previous court rulings than psystar stands no chance of winnin' a lawsuit against apple. (yea, i finally found my source, damn 1084 page business law book not makin' it easy to find it by not listing it under "software" or "eula" in the back of the book...).

 

edit:

There is a precedent case where Data General prohibited their OS to run on non Data General hardware and DG lost. Apple could sue but if they actually lose - it would be very bad for them. I think that their EULA is challengeable. It's probably non-binding in many other countries. Remember how Compaq won in court against IBM when they reverse-engineered IBM's proprietary BIOS. We know what happened after that.

 

I'm not siding with this company but a lawsuit woudn't be a slam-dunk by Apple.

good find. that the complete opposite rulin' in a lawsuit that i gave as an example and that's the only way that psystar can win its case. they just needs to tell the judge/jury about the previous case and its verdict and 90% of the time the judge/jury will make their rulin' based on previous case law.

[lstep]

There is a precedent case where Data General prohibited their OS to run on non Data General hardware and DG lost. Apple could sue but if they actually lose - it would be very bad for them. I think that their EULA is challengeable. It's probably non-binding in many other countries. Remember how Compaq won in court against IBM when they reverse-engineered IBM's proprietary BIOS. We know what happened after that.

 

I'm not siding with this company but a lawsuit woudn't be a slam-dunk by Apple.

 

Your Data General example is a good one. At the time they had some pretty interesting laptops. After they lost the case they faded away in that arena. When Apple moved to Intel I was sure the DG case would be brought up as both tried to use hardware to stop other OS's from running (in addition to the Eula's).

 

Apple's whole product line is based on OSX running on proprietary hardware (not just computers) built from standard parts. Should they lose this and are forced to license the OS it would probably be game over. This isn't the OpenStep times where the transition from black to white was possible without too much damage.

 

There won't be any winners in this one and the osx86 hobby community will not fare well unfortunately.

 

ls

[DP User]

Thanks Istep....

 

People ignore the fact that if you force a company to start losing money.. Bye bye goes the company, or at least the product that is losing money. Then what do you have... YET another orphaned OS and back to being stuck with Windows....

 

Is that what we REALLY want????

[EzPCX]

I would rather stick back to apple. At least, they do repair if anything fails and the machine design is much more elegant than Psystar.

[DrewG5]

IMHO this would not be a bad thing if Psystar was not sening its customers here. They have the abilty to sell than they have the abilty to support their product. Sending people here to get a free support system kinda sucks, but than again if they are carfty they will come here and ask what to buy to get there system up and going.

[Canis Lupus]

I agree with this. That's why I'm only adding one piece from Systar while continuing to purchase from, and support, Apple hardware and software.

Thanks Istep....People ignore the fact that if you force a company to start losing money.. Bye bye goes the company, or at least the product that is losing money. Then what do you have... YET another orphaned OS and back to being stuck with Windows....Is that what we REALLY want????

I agree with this as well. It's possible that if more people come here before they buy, they may decide to go the 86 route from a grassroots standpoint, rather than supporting a company who's attempting to profit off the backs of the 86 community. BTW - the FAQ no longer includes InsanelyMac. It now simply says "the web" http://www.psystar.com/can_i_run_updates_on_my_openmac.html

IMHO this would not be a bad thing if Psystar was not sening its customers here. They have the abilty to sell than they have the abilty to support their product. Sending people here to get a free support system kinda sucks, but than again if they are carfty they will come here and ask what to buy to get there system up and going.

[EzPCX]

One thing... What would if Psystar is selling their open computer but Apple restricts by providing Leopard OS to the company? Then the pre-installed OSX is just fake.. LOL

[DJ Loe Kee]

Thanks Istep....

 

People ignore the fact that if you force a company to start losing money.. Bye bye goes the company, or at least the product that is losing money. Then what do you have... YET another orphaned OS and back to being stuck with Windows....

 

Is that what we REALLY want????

i'm not happy with xp pro and i refuse to use vista. i sux at programmin' so linux is out of the question for me. plus, macs are the best when it comes to music production so i don't want them to quit makin' macs, i just want a mac pro (with a 45nm intel dual core) that isn't made for video production.

[EzPCX]

Don't you guys think this is ridiculous? Apple created OSX and they even provide their hardware to install OSX. They just provide everything in their own community. And now.. a "Thief" just pop up and still part of it. What is the problem of the EULA? Im a mac user.. I don't find it has any problems? Apple created OSX.. Don't you think they have the rights the guard their own property or work? For people that don't agree to the EULA, then just keep away from Apple OSX! Don't busybody clone this and that. More and over, Psystar doesnt even give credits to hackers that enabled hackintosh.!

[jamsd]

The highly extensible Open Computer is a configuration of PC hardware capable of running unmodified OS X Leopard kernels.

 

They include the retail install disk, so are they implying that it doesn't require patching or something? I know that can't be the case. I bet a lot of people who order this are going to try to reinstall OSX straight from the disk and be really angry when it doesn't work.

[DrewG5]

I have to agree 100% on this!

 

They include the retail install disk, so are they implying that it doesn't require patching or something? I know that can't be the case. I bet a lot of people who order this are going to try to reinstall OSX straight from the disk and be really angry when it doesn't work.

[ Mysticus C*]

you are funny

 

problem is not crediting anyone... they are gonna make too much attention on IM and if it turns out bad in the court, may/will cause of shutdown of the community laying low... These clowns are First, Commercialize something they didnt do/contribute nothing about. Second, they wanna sell the product pointing the community as the support for their product... If anything happens bad at the end, they will drag down the community along with them! People here do it as a hobby, or transition period, until apple happens to lower prices (unlikely??)

 

everyone of course hates apple charging the {censored} out of their hardware? (i dont think it is their hardware at all, apart from firewire tech, and multi touch pad, and brushed AL case)... and OSX is hardly an apple product, rather UNIX licensed/certified product with apples' UI on top of it...

 

The case is very good and hope beneficial to MAC wannabes, to fix Apple' unfair charge of hardwares and limited/forced user options. However this case should have been brought in different way or apple should have been challanged in court for its EULA, but as on their own... not draging down the community with them... or using community for their benefit, and making money out of people's efforts... (although cant argue that wheter the project is legal or not, still doesnt make their way of business right!)

 

Don't you guys think this is ridiculous? Apple created OSX and they even provide their hardware to install OSX. They just provide everything in their own community. And now.. a "Thief" just pop up and still part of it. What is the problem of the EULA? Im a mac user.. I don't find it has any problems? Apple created OSX.. Don't you think they have the rights the guard their own property or work? For people that don't agree to the EULA, then just keep away from Apple OSX! Don't busybody clone this and that. More and over, Psystar doesnt even give credits to hackers that enabled hackintosh.!

[Stravaganza]

... not draging down the community with them...

I second this. But I am so enjoying this development. (It's like watching StarWars Episode VII or something.) Christmas comes early this year. I've wanted Apple's Mac OS X EULA to be tested in court. I wish Psystar feckers have enough resource to fight with Apple in court. Unfortunate that we (this website and this community) are involved in this matter. We are just a bunch of hobbyists! :whistle:

[Canis Lupus]

Well if I get an actual box (which I ordered without the "Leopard Pre-Install"), and it works with my Leopard install, the first thing I'll be doing is donating the price of a Leopard install disc to Kaly

 

These clowns are First, Commercialize something they didnt do/contribute nothing about. Second, they wanna sell the product pointing the community as the support for their product... If anything happens bad at the end, they will drag down the community along with them! People here do it as a hobby, or transition period, until apple happens to lower prices (unlikely??)