Psystar claims Apple doesn't own rights on OS X

[WannaBeApple]

i hope psystar wins because it would be a huge step forward for osx86

[wahwahman89]

While I have absolutely no opinion as to the necessity for "Death to Psystar", I'll just point out that nearly all the most recent OSX86 "releases" are using Psystar's R1000 fix and Psystar's stop fix.

 

Psystar ripped off Netkas's PC_EFI V8 without giving credits (initially, still an omission, inadvertent plagiarism), so I think the community has a right to rip off a couple of kexts that they made. What's fair is fair.

[InorganicMatter]

Psystar ripped off Netkas's PC_EFI V8 without giving credits (initially, still an omission, inadvertent plagiarism), so I think the community has a right to rip off a couple of kexts that they made. What's fair is fair.

 

You completely missed the point: love them or hate them, Psystar still contributes back to this community, and has done more good than the "harm" they are accused of causing.

 

I'll also point out that you are completely wrong on the PC_EFI license: Netkas didn't even HAVE a license for PC_EFI until after Psystar started using it, after which he created a license and tried to retroactively accuse them of breaking it. In fact, if anyone was wrong there, it was Netkas; you cannot change the license on something already out there. I can't give you a few buck but then tell you that you owe me your firstborn, after you've already spent it.

[noel646b]

I would like to mention a few things.

 

1. Apple Mac OS X is now based on an open source code. Apple modified it with their great looking and efficient GUI, there you have so much for the argument that they own the full legal rights to the software they "created".

 

2. As far as I know "EFI" is not a technology owned by Apple.

 

3. If Apple is selling a retail copy of software (like Mac OS x), meaning purchased at the apple store without any hardware included, then I do think that any Judge in their good righteous mind will not favor a restriction like the one apple imposes (to be installed only on Apple's Hardware). People, every one has to remember that Apple's EULA IS NOT A LAW, is a company policy, and if it turns to be consumer unfriendly, it will certainly not hold water in court.

 

4. Ask yourself, What makes a Mac computer? In simple words is a collection of parts or components made by many manufacturers, and those happen to be the same as in windows PC's. This is a battle IBM lost already cause they DID NOT OWN RIGHTS ON THE HARDWARE. It is like telling people do not buy different car parts (or mix parts from Chevy and Ford) to build your own "Cheford".

 

5. Ask yourself, Why Apple switch from IBM CPU's to Intel? They claim it was due to IBM not satisfying their request for a cpu that is smaller, faster and consumes less energy( all that is true), but I think Apple really wanted a divorce from IBM to simply engage intel so that Microsoft users enjoy Apple's Mac OS X while enabled (thru bootcamp) to use MS Windows on their Macs without missing the functionality from their PC technology. Now, Apple does not have any policy restricting users from installing MS Windows OS on intel Macs, how weird is that, is exactly the reverse of their very own restriction. Well if Apple is to win this case, then Microsoft Corp. will earn the right to add a clause in their EULA to restrict users from installing Windows Vista on Apple made computers (as is not intended for macs). They will have the rights to enforced this EULA after Apple wins.

 

__________________

 

I will close this comment now. I am not a lawyer, but if I have to say something, is that Psystar's Attorneys are not fully understanding what they are dealing in court. Gentlemen, this the right argument. Don't loose focus.

 

P.D. I have owned five mac's. and also have an Acer Hackintosh (which I am using right now) and Mac OS X is better supported and runs better on Macs (duh!), it was written for Mac and Apple has outstanding customer support, but there is another fact, Mac OS X runs very well (near perfect) in my $450 Acer, way better that Windows Vista did on it.

[surfer96822]

The reason I purchased my Intel MacBook (very first Mac) was because I could still use windows, all the stuff I am comfortable with already, and learn, mess around with Mac OS.

 

If MS acquires a legal right to not allow windows on Apple made computers I see a whole lot of folks like me not buying Mac made hardware.

 

 

5. Ask yourself, Why Apple switch from IBM CPU's to Intel? They claim it was due to IBM not satisfying their request for a cpu that is smaller, faster and consumes less energy( all that is true), but I think Apple really wanted a divorce from IBM to simply engage intel so that Microsoft users enjoy Apple's Mac OS X while enabled (thru bootcamp) to use MS Windows on their Macs without missing the functionality from their PC technology. Now, Apple does not have any policy restricting users from installing MS Windows OS on intel Macs, how weird is that, is exactly the reverse of their very own restriction. Well if Apple is to win this case, then Microsoft Corp. will earn the right to add a clause in their EULA to restrict users from installing Windows Vista on Apple made computers (as is not intended for macs). They will have the rights to enforced this EULA after Apple wins.

[xakarix84]

My country don't have psystar, so i don't know how they doing.

IMO if they include a original Mac OS X retail DVD with a extra boot loader CD together with every PC they sell for their customer, that should be okay.

But if they making money with iso like what we can download for free, even they include some enhancement but that's bad.

[surfer96822]

anyone in business has the right to make profit. they pay rent, salaries, overhead, etc.

 

i own a real mac as well as a psystar clone (LOL) yes a pystar clone, I built myself and had great fun doing so.

It runs very fast and for the 400 usd I spent it is a greater value than the closest mac. Yes, macs have beautiful designs, but i can upgrade with industry standard components. Why does apple not keep up with current hardware ie; 260/280 gtx, or even 9800gt(already legacy) 4870? To my knowledge apple offers the 8800GS, not GT.... Amazing

 

Pystar is a considerably greater consumer value than Mac in terms of price/performance and even can ship with a 9800gt. Once the "genie is out of the bottle" it is tough to shovel sand against the tide.

[A.I.Ghost]

I don't think that Psystar is Evil, as i don't think apple would take any legal actions against OSX86 community. In any way.

 

The fact, that OSX86 made many people switch to Apple (including me), as already stated, only profits Apple.

Hard work of developers like netkas also only profits apple, cause apple can use this work and further enhance MacOS with it - isn't it good?

 

Psystar contributed some of their own work to the community (like the drivers mentioned).

 

But, let's do not forget, that many enhancements apple made to open source they used to build Mac OS was returned back to community under the very popular GPL/GPL2 license.

 

I am afraid, that apple might go the MS way. Activation keys, Apple genuine software checks and so on... That would make our lives harder.

 

P.S. I have already built around 100 hackintoshes (sry Apple), and earned a salary for my services. But i encouraged owners to at least buy a copy of Tiger/Leopard, and they did, all of them. Some of them have already switched to macs too.

So, should I be sent to court for breaking apple eula? I think, that i helped apple more, than i did damaged it.

Same goes with the psystar.

[iNoob]

Totally true. It would be nice if they were doing more things like that rather than attempt to commercialize OSx86

 

So true.

[Synaesthesia]

Mac OS X is mostly closed source, not open source. It has some open source components, but that's about it.

 

Remember, Microsoft have never made computers to go with their hardware. Apple always have. Why would Microsoft be upset at you buying Windows + their software for the Mac. Also remember, Microsoft + Apple aren't the biggest enemies. Microsoft is probably the biggest developer for the Mac, and bailed them out in '97.

 

It took quite a while for Boot Camp to come out, I think Apple really did change because of the faster, lower power processors of Intel, rather than to run Windows on Macs.

 

I do think Apple own the rights to the unique Mac hardware. Who cares if they didn't invent EFI.

 

And I hate Psystar, I would never do such a brazen thing as sell OS X enabled PC's, even though I could do it very easily.

[noel646b]

And I hate Psystar, I would never do such a brazen thing as sell OS X enabled PC's, even though I could do it very easily.

 

Why? I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT PSYSTAR IS BUYING THE OS X LICENSED COPY. APPLE SELLS THIS TO ANY ONE NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

[wayover]

The funny thing is that people call these machines clones when all Apple machines are now PC clones.

[noel646b]

Very true. Now, Apple has an unique class of customers

(that will always buy apple no matter what), apparently they thought the same as for pc users and their ambition to gain market share pointed them to go with intel. Now to options will remain, a. swicth to a non x86 technology again or b. license os x for all types of pc. That is what stands. I personally favor apple prices on the entry levels models like macbook and macmini, is of value, but macbook pro and macpro are not a bang for the money when compare to hackintoshes with the same hardware specs and less expensive.

[cringemaster]

Pystar, I believe, should not be capitalizing on what is otherwise a hobby.

 

Yes, the personal computer was a hobby in the 70's until people started mass producing them and selling them, but in this case, the computer and operating system already exists, and is already owned by the very company that helped make computers mainstream. Pystar should be making "Hack-Ready" hardware boxes, but it should not be bundling Mac OS with them.

 

What we do here does push on some legal boundaries, but the profit is 0 for us (except maybe for those who run the site and receive a monthly check from AdSense). Pystar is now threatening Apples profits by offering an alternative to their somewhat pricey hardware.

 

Either way, I already foresee Apple winning this lawsuit one way or another, or worse comes to worse, settling with Pystar to stop their sales and then implementing some new legal maneuvering to make it harder for others to do what Pystar did legally.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[A Nonny Moose]

Apple can shut us down at any random point but I think the reason they dont do it is because whats stopping us just rebuilding a forum again and again... they can keep chasing but its nothing they can permanatly shutdown

 

Just as an FYI, we were almost shut down by Apple over OSX86. This is why we have rules regarding what we can and cannot post (such as torrent files--bad bad bad under our new rules).

[stroke]

[shadisaleh]

So I think the crux of this whole fiasco will center on whether the court will accept that Apple's EULA constitutes a contract or not. When you agree to install OS X, you're agreeing to install it on Apple Hardware only, and you cannot circumvent it without violating the EULA. I hate the fact that EULA is non-negotiated and you're forced to swallow it whether you like the terms or not (if you want to install the software), but I have a feeling that the court will recognize Apple's EULA as legally binding.

 

On the other hand, I'm not too sure what to make of Psystar's copyright defense; Apple is known to patent and copyright the hell out of things it doesn't really even own, so this defense is rather odd...

[Boot Camp]

GO PSYSTAR!

[Guest cavallo]

Very true. Now, Apple has an unique class of customers

(that will always buy apple no matter what), apparently they thought the same as for pc users and their ambition to gain market share pointed them to go with intel. Now to options will remain, a. swicth to a non x86 technology again or b. license os x for all types of pc. That is what stands. I personally favor apple prices on the entry levels models like macbook and macmini, is of value, but macbook pro and macpro are not a bang for the money when compare to hackintoshes with the same hardware specs and less expensive.

 

Unfortunately they are and they don't work as a Mac, Psystar can claim anything trying to win, the problem is with those f*****g bioses and unstable power platform you will never have a pc starting and working as a mac.

What Psystar's doing is useless without original power supply distribution project (acpi in pc), so i hope they win and discover what kind of s**t they're holding.

[Zaap]

People, every one has to remember that Apple's EULA IS NOT A LAW, is a company policy, and if it turns to be consumer unfriendly, it will certainly not hold water in court.

 

4. Ask yourself, What makes a Mac computer? In simple words is a collection of parts or components made by many manufacturers, and those happen to be the same as in windows PC's. This is a battle IBM lost already cause they DID NOT OWN RIGHTS ON THE HARDWARE. It is like telling people do not buy different car parts (or mix parts from Chevy and Ford) to build your own "Cheford".

Although I'm weary of Psystar and get tired of their silly legal charades like this latest one, and their use of OSx86 work for commercial gain, the above points can't be emphasized enough.

 

No matter how much of a bunch of twits Psystar may be, people need to chill with ascribing all this ridiculous 'legal' authority to Apple like they are some global government entity. "Oh noes! Apple's gonna shut down this site and pull the plug on that and send out the black helicopters and repo your Hackintosh, steal your girlfriend, salt the earth, and burn down the entire Internet and blah blah....

 

Uh. No.

 

 

Does Apple like that people are finding ways around thier corporate policy? (NOT LAW!) Probably not.

 

Can they do much about it? No.

 

Do they really have some magical legally-binding right to dictate hardware, when thier own hardware is REALLY just a collection of thier own mix of THIRD PARTY parts? (Let's put down the reality distortion and corporate hype 'whole widget' bullcrap for a minute). No. Not much more than IBM could keep the whole 'clone vs. genuine' hardware monopoly going forever either. And worship Apple or not, the way forward in the computing world has always revolved around tearing down any such ruse big companies have tried to erect.

[macgirl]

While I have absolutely no opinion as to the necessity for "Death to Psystar", I'll just point out that nearly all the most recent OSX86 "releases" are using Psystar's R1000 fix and Psystar's stop fix.

 

Totally true. It would be nice if they were doing more things like that rather than attempt to commercialize OSx86

Yes and making those fixes is not a "seven wonder".

 

Still you can find on their page:

We're also releasing the project code for this device as the developers of this project did before us. What we've done is enhance the interrupt handling and link detection for these NICS: RTL8168, RTL8111, RTL8169, RTL8101. We want to give everyone a better driver. If you have any fixes, modifications, or detailed hardware specifications for this hardware (which we don't have) let us know.

 

To get the XCode project click here.

Shame on them, because they never release a thing AFAIK.

 

I have nothing against Psystar. They paid for OSX, they should be able to do whatever they want with it. If I buy a piece of toast I can put it in a blu ray player. Nothing is stopping me from doing whatever I want with what I buy. Openhaltrestart.kext is a great kext...

Yes you can buy a Ford motor and put it on a Chevy, but is not free, one way is you to learn how to do it the other way is to pay someone to do it for you. They buy the Mac OS but to put it on a PC needs certain knowledge, and that "knowledge" came from this community, and they are not paying for it, but worse they are getting earnings from it or you think they are figure it all from themselves.

 

If Apple release a Mac OS X86 generic compatible version, and Psystar will be out of business very soon.

 

And by the way OpenHalRestar is not also a "seven wonder", I am sure that som of us could came with a solution.

[teenagemojoworkout]

I really hope Apple starts distributing it's OS for PCs. It's such a user- friendly and fast OS compared to Windows and Linux. They'd definitely make a ton of money from selling Mac OS install disks for PCs, but the problem is that no one would buy their over-priced hardware any more.

 

If Psystar wins Apple will either start distributing Mac OS or they'll go the Microsoft Genuine Advantage route. If Apple wins then they still get to sell over-priced hardware with a nice operating system.

[noel646b]

Yes, people that respect other peoples hard work usually do.

That's exactly the point, Psystar sells the systems with a genuine licensed dvd of mac os x 10.5. I understand you favor Apple in this (I do, too, see Apple as superior hardware), but you have to see thing the way they really are. Apple's argument is about the eula's restriction for non apple hardware, buying OS x is actually respecting some ones hard-work. Again, that is what I am trying to tell you (buy the OS licensed dvd, then is fair). On the other hand, as an example of abuse, see how Nokia builts a fully functional, full of features cell phone, and the cell carriers cripple the phones so they can charge you for functionalities that otherwise were standard on the phone. No harm intended with my comments, but this is not an issue of great importance for as individuals to take it too seriously. Peace.

[Maxintosh]

I understand you favor Apple in this

Well you'd be wrong, because this isn't about 'Apple'. This is about honoring a contract that you entered into, that's what a license is. You don't 'buy' a license, you more or less just rent the right to use it. Any company that licenses something has the legal right to take that license away from you if you break your contract with them. Psystar clearly broke that contract. No one forces Psystar or anyone else to use OS X. If someone buys OS X and then decides to refuse to the terms of the license, then Apple will give that person their money back, so no one has any excuse to rip them off. You're trying to make an excuse, and you're trying to justify ripping someone off for their investment and hard work, but if it was your software that someone was ripping off then I'd bet you'd be the first one to whine about.

[nigelbb]

Shame on them, because they never release a thing AFAIK.

Their open source projects may not be so easy to find on their web site but they are there:-

http://store.psystar.com/opensource/openhaltrestart

http://store.psystar.com/opensource/opendsdt

http://store.psystar.com/opensource/r1000