coucou Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 (edited) Yes i'm very surprised , that since on year , of search and install ... nobody has found the REAL hardware of a mac or mac supplier ... We can't find a motherboard with TPM, EFI etc ... that is sold and which is exactly the same as apple provide in their computers ? 'Cauyse with EFI and TPM in a motherboard ther 's no utility of using an os x hacked with kernel , modified etc etc just use os x original DVD and install if we meet EXACT hardware ??? very surprised .... Edited March 16, 2007 by coucou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idividebyzero Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Why are you surprised? They arent sold and never will be. The motherboards are custom made Intel boards using Apple EFI. Theres nothing to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coucou Posted March 17, 2007 Author Share Posted March 17, 2007 not a good answer mister. there's an answer ..the hard way is too find the source ..it's not apple that madie is own motherboard ... and the supplier does'nt produce motherboard only for apple ... the answer is here , i will dig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanis Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 It's a custom made Intel motherboard.. for the first Intel desktop products (iMac, Mac Mini) was a custom 945G/ICH-7 motherboard with EFI and a TPM Module with a key supplied from Apple. Even if you get the same motherboard, you can't just boot OS X on it because you don't have the TPM Key and the Apple EFI modules to boot. But, that's why the Intel 945G mobos are the most compatible with OSx86. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coucou Posted March 17, 2007 Author Share Posted March 17, 2007 (edited) ok , But who is building apple motherboard : asus, foxconn , msi ? It's very strange that the efi and tpm based motherboard are not used in this forum by guru like jas etc ? reinjecting tpm key in TPM chip is difficult ? ... i supposed not ... only supposition .. Edited March 17, 2007 by coucou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernalzero Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 intel makes the boards for apple as others have mentioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu.Walker Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Intel manufactures the special motherboards for Apple, and for them only. If you can get your hands on one and send it to JaS or other contributors for reverse-engineering then we'd have a headstart on making Leo work 100%. It's not strange for people not to have the exact same motherboard as Apple uses in their products, if it had widespread availability then we wouldn't be here on this forum discussing making non-Apple products work. Alternatively, you can try prying off an Apple motherboard off the new Mac Pros and use it for OSX86. But by doing that, you're completely missing the point of OSX86. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefox408 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 ok , But who is building apple motherboard : asus, foxconn , msi ? It's very strange that the efi and tpm based motherboard are not used in this forum by guru like jas etc ? reinjecting tpm key in TPM chip is difficult ? ... i supposed not ... only supposition .. Ok big misconception here, no one makes the board for Apple, Apple makes them. They may subcontract out to someone but the boards are still Apple's. The orginal development boards were provided by Intel but the subsequent boards were made by Apple. Apple is both a hardware and software company. They design their own motherboards and chipsets. If you take apart a modern Mac computer you will see chips with the Apple logo on them as well as on the board itself. Apple motherboards these days have designs and common parts based off the Intel reference platform which is how you can get OS X up and running on whitebox PC hardware, but... The actual shipping boards, are Apple's. They make them. They sell them. It's called a Macintosh. If you want one, go buy it at http://store.apple.com =) If you want to tinker with OS X on whitebox hardware with the least amount of fuss... buy the board that is closest to what Apple used as a development board until their internal board was up and running. As mentioned many times here in the forums it's an actual Intel board. Fox ---------------------------------------------------- Happily running 10.4.8 on Panasonic Toughbook CF-74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mifki Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Umm, i love this thread. Intel makes apples boards, apple tell intel they want a board that does this and that, intel shows them a couple of stock models, and customises the sizes and dimensions, but still all the chips are made by intel, the internal boards are off the shelf intel boards, apple uses them, then makes a spec, and gets intel to manufacture the spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coucou Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Ok big misconception here, no one makes the board for Apple, Apple makes them. They may subcontract out to someone but the boards are still Apple's. The orginal development boards were provided by Intel but the subsequent boards were made by Apple. Apple is both a hardware and software company. They design their own motherboards and chipsets. If you take apart a modern Mac computer you will see chips with the Apple logo on them as well as on the board itself. Apple motherboards these days have designs and common parts based off the Intel reference platform which is how you can get OS X up and running on whitebox PC hardware, but... The actual shipping boards, are Apple's. They make them. They sell them. It's called a Macintosh. If you want one, go buy it at http://store.apple.com =) If you want to tinker with OS X on whitebox hardware with the least amount of fuss... buy the board that is closest to what Apple used as a development board until their internal board was up and running. As mentioned many times here in the forums it's an actual Intel board. Fox ---------------------------------------------------- Happily running 10.4.8 on Panasonic Toughbook CF-74 " subcontract out to someone " ... so can we know the name of this company ? For example if you get exactly a Dell Dimension 5150C you have a "perfect" copy of a mac. I have installed oxs86 on it ... and his bios seems to be very closer of efi ... i supposed that some design are very very closer of apple (intel) design ps : i have already two REAL mac at home so ... no need, now, to buy another one guy. "intel shows them a couple of stock models" ... and i suggest that intel doesn't want to developp a special design (board) for apple only but just take a board on his catalog ... no ? (developp an original design board is very expensive so ... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helba Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 You people aren't paying attention. And, firefox408, you are ENTIRELY away from the truth. Intel makes these chipsets. Intel makes the processors. DUH! Intel made the original boards. The thing is that they came with a custom TPM chip. This isn't included on any production board because it was a custom order made by Apple. It wasn't a 'developp an original design board,' it was an Intel model modified for OS X developers. What's so hard to understand? They are not produced. And, furthermore, you are wrong in saying that 'since on year,' since this project has been around since at least 2005. That's more than one year, buddy. And no one was searching for this mystical holy grail of motherboards because they all know that they AREN'T OUT THERE. Hopefully this clears things up. Apple designs their machines, true, but even since the dawn of Apple they have used other companies' processors and chipsets. Motorolla 68k sound familiar? I've got an old Mac board here with a big ol' AMD chip on it. Apple isn't some humongous hardware conglomerate that designs all their own chips and technologies for their machines. Do you have any idea what kind of effort and money that would take? And anyway, it's quite clear that we have been able to run this OS on other boards without much issue. It's the other pieces of hardware that have been the hardest to tackle. Hopefully this clears a few things up. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefox408 Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 I never said apple designed the cpu or every chipset in the macs, just they had designed chips and its in a current mac. If I'm so far from the truth, go find a 3rd party board that will install a commercial shrink wrapped copy of OS X. Because that would be the truth. You can't. There is not 1 board you can buy except an Apple made machine that will work without kernel modifications which is borderline illegal in the U.S. under current idiotic laws. In regards to huge companies designing their own chips and technologies and how much money it would take... uh... are you that oblivious to mac history? A little refresh off the top off my head... Apple pioneered 802.11b adoption. They cornered the market for YEARS on it since they co-owned 2 key patents with Lucent for 802.11. Apple shoved AltiVec down Motorola's throat. It was an Apple thing, not Motorolla. Apple developed FireWire aka 1394. Does the term digital video mean anything? Hardware and software based handwriting recognition for computers. Apple invented the mouse. Edit: First commercial use of a mouse =) (sorry for the timeline error, I know alot of stuff came from Xerox Parc just couldn't remember who had it first) one word, iPod =) Apple has innovated quite a few things over the years. So don't just make blanket statements. Overall my statement stands. Apple spends a fortune coming up with new hardware. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superkona Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Apple invented the mouse. the 1st mouse / pointing device came out of xerox parc research in palo alto.. not cupertino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercurysquad Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Apple invented the mouse. No. Xerox PARC. EDIT: sorry somehow didnt see the post above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coucou Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 so 945GNTLKR ? and what else ? in the intel catalog ? i know someone who has bought an imac core 2 duo 20" (buying with my advice ;-) ) and i gave me hardware spec qith the help of Sandra and Device manager of xp and i can confirm that his board is the same as mine (imac core duo 20" first gen (march 2006)) So which board from intel choose ? (asrock work very closest of a real mac ..) but the best mobo and hardware has been made buy Dell 5150c : bomba osx86 , everything is working out of the box (two ven id to update) and sleep wake up work , boot time is best than my imac core duo 2 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireshark Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 As has been stated at least five times throughout thisd thread, there is no exact same model of Intel motherboard used in Intel Macs that is available for purchase. Your Dell 5150C may perform very similarly but the motherboards are *not* the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciper Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I wanted to add to this thread that I have used one of the original mice and I know the person who built it. He currently runs a very tiny company inside of another very well known companies office. They donate the space to him as a thanks. The original mouse was NOT intended to be used with a keyboard. What we have today is a bastardisation of the original input scheme. Doug still uses the original input method along with a current day mouse. Its a 5 button keypad, one key for each finger. Think of binary counting and you will understand how every character on the keyboard can be typed with only these 5 buttons. Pretty easy once you get used to it and really damn fast since you can type and move the mouse at the same time without adjusting your hands. Regarding apple hardware. Remember the original IMac with those puck mice? Guess who made them..... LOGITECH. You will never find the Logitech name on them though because Apple pays the manufacturer extra to remove their name. Its just like the "Sony" eyetoy which was built by two different comanies. If you are lucky (65% chance) you will get a Logitech Eyetoy instead of a "generic" one which I forgot the name of. This was done to avoid any production issues at one company. Another great example is the IPOD control wheel. Everyone associates it with Apple when in fact another company was building it. Many people were afraid the interface on the new IPODs would suck because they switched manufacturers. Either way my point is that there is most likely MULTIPLE companies building the different Apple/Intel boards. Its not a good idea to "put all your eggs in one basket".... Problem is that Apple is VERY strict with the contracts they sign with these manufacturers. If "Mac" motherboards were leaked onto the market the manufacturer would be in serious deep {censored} and lose significant business. My last point - Its easy to tell which of you are involved in the industry in some way and which of you are still living in your moms basement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurael Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 coucou; you really aren't getting the point here. The boards used in Macs, while sharing a large majority of their components with industry standard boards are not industry standard at all. Whether they're designed by Apple or for Apple is irrelevent. Many boards today have TPM. Many boards today also have EFI (although it is clocked under a seemingly inescapable CSM on most board at the moment.) There will be other minor differences, however, like the superIO and monitoring chips used. No matter how close the board you have is to an Apple board in terms of the chips on it, the chances are the BIOS/EFI implementation from said Apple board would very likely not work on your 'duplicate' since even minor differences (all sorts of things, from the length of traces on the PCB, voltages the different chips run at, different design of VRMs, etc) can significantly affect all sorts of things, right down to the latencies which need to be known for the BIOS to work (and you're not likely to be able to do anything about that unless you have full electronic specs for the board, access to BIOS distributors' tools, and knowledge of the software and hardware testing required to compile a BIOS). Not only that but the boards are tailor made for the cases they fit in. Even if you could get hold of one, for example, an iMac logic board would not fit in a standard ATX case without significant modifications. You would have to build an LVDS-DVI interface to be able to hook up a screen to the internal display connector. You would need to splice the wiring from a standard ATX PSU to hook up to the logic board's power connector. In summary, it's more practical to hack the software to run on the hardware you have than to hack the hardware to run the software you already have. If you're still determined to look into this, I'll tell you that, for example, the Mac Pro logic board is manufactured (but not necessarily designed by) Foxconn. Almost all Apple hardware in manufactured under contract by Taiwanese OEMs like Asus, Foxconn, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciper Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Azuraels post got me thinking.... if you want to "build" your own mac why not buy a bunch of broken Macs and used parts on Ebay/Craigslist and frankenstenn them together? You may be able to build a very cheap system if you shop wisely. I did this and built my own 2gb flash based Ipod Mini for very cheap (yes flashed based). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idividebyzero Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 You still dont get it. There are no motherboards that you can buy that are the same as the mac motherboards and there are no motherboards that you can buy that will run a real copy of OSX. Its illegal for Intel to sell Apple's custom made EFI and motherboards. If you think that dell uses the same motherboard as a mac then go ahead and try to install a real copy of OSX on it, youll see just how far you can get on the supposedly mac motherboard. OSx86 is HACKED to work on NON-APPLE motherboards. It is NOT a real copy of OS X and it does NOT work on a real Mac. Just because a motherboard works perfectly with OSx86 does not mean its a real apple motherboard or that it will work with a REAL copy of OSX. You seem to think that there are thousands and thousands, or possibly millions of motherboards out there. There arent, there are very few compared to the amount of people who have tried to install OSX. Its 100% impossible that there are still motherboards (especially core 2 duo or Xeon motherboards, theres very very few Xeon motherboards) that havent been tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogimestiso Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I had to register to reply and Im quite new to macs. I am bidding on a Apple Intel Mac Motherboard Logic Board Prototype sdk on ebay right now which I think is one of these mobos that you guys are talking about. The guy im bidding from I noticed from reading his feedbacks and checking his history of items sold is selling these like hotcakes right now. Just a little juicy tidbit to anyone who wants to undertake a DIY mac and see what they can build. I am actually excited to be able for the first time build a mac from the startup like a regular pc and not pay extravagant prices like you usually would if you bought the parts separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sg Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I had to register to reply and Im quite new to macs. I am bidding on a Apple Intel Mac Motherboard Logic Board Prototype sdk on ebay right now which I think is one of these mobos that you guys are talking about. The guy im bidding from I noticed from reading his feedbacks and checking his history of items sold is selling these like hotcakes right now. Just a little juicy tidbit to anyone who wants to undertake a DIY mac and see what they can build. I am actually excited to be able for the first time build a mac from the startup like a regular pc and not pay extravagant prices like you usually would if you bought the parts separate. i think that board is the one that the first intel dev machines used which isnt core 2 duo and is pretty much just a PC. i'm not sure if a standard tiger install will actually work on those (no efi i think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coucou Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 intel 945gntlkr HAVE EFI and TPM ! so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMX-Knuckles Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Lots of motherboards have EFI and TPM chips. A TPM is just a generic hardware-based security chip. The TPM chips in x86-based Apple computers are programmed to basically say "I'm a real Apple computer" which allows OS X to work. Maybe it's possible to flash the TPM chip and fool the operating system but it would be VERY difficult if not impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coucou Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share Posted March 30, 2007 you said : "Lots of motherboards have EFI and TPM chips." Do you have some example ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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