98 replies to this topic

[Swad]

While Apple is way ahead of Windows in many ways, Macs certainly aren't known for their gaming abilities.  What does Apple need to do to make the Mac gamin experience better?  What specific steps should they take before you'll be taking a Mac to a LAN party?  

[Ranger]

As someone new to Macs, maybe someone can answer this for me - what's wrong with the hardware?  Why do people say that Macs aren't cut out for gaming?

I know that there aren't a lot of Mac games out there (relatively speaking) but is that because of the hardware or something else?

[zerozerosix]

Apple should support DirectX It would be a great step by simplifiying a lot game porting process... but I doubt Microsoft would allow that, they want Vista to be a game platform... sad.

Also in my opinion the problem is not really the Mac hardware (even if they should support more third party hardware). Mac represents only a minor fraction of gaming platforms (console : many millions of gamers, PC : millions of gamers, Mac : some gamers ). Why bothering to port a game to Mac when you sell millions of copies for consoles. Even PC have difficulties today to stay on par with consoles (except on specific segments of the gaming market). The more Macs Apple will sell, the more games will appear on this platform... but the road is very long...

[niteice]

Ever heard of Darwine?

[Ranger]

Darwine won't do much for gaming, though, since the games aren't native Mac apps, right?

[zerozerosix]

The goal of Darwine is to "simulate" a Windows environement (dlls, drivers, etc) to allow Windows application to run in Mac OS X. The initial Wine (linux) project can achieve this with good results and good speed as it is not an emulation : x86 code runs on x86 machine, it """simply""" (thousands lines of code) recreate a fake Windows environement needed by the application to run.
Darwine added an emulation layer to run Wine on PPC hardware. Now with OS x86 the emulation layer is no longer needed and we can hope same results as the original Wine : native code x86 running fast. But the road is very long before Darwine x86 reach the same level of achievement as Wine.... But perhaps one day we will be able to run any windows game IN Mac OS

[nordaaa]

we should hope that more people write opengl games... then they are easy to port and mac should provide full support...

otherwise, we can emulate the directx environment like the prog cedega under linux...

[SacredByte]

faster/better/more upgradable hardware.

simply put, alot of gamers are put off by macs for many reasons.

here are a few:

1.) The hardware on macs is not as upgradeable, because the hardware to upgrade with is more limited than pc's.

2.) Some gamers like to build their own machines, and with macs, this is not currently practical.

3.) The whole "homie don't right click" thing, most of the pc gamers I know, myself included, are turned off by the whole simple, single button, point & click interface of macs (yes I know you can use multi button mice with macs, but who would ever think to use non-official Apple products ?)

4.) Cost. for 2k you can get a good gaming x86 pc, but thats where the powermac starts.

5.) Number of games supporting the os

there are five reasons many "gamers" choose not to go mac, I'm not sure if everythink I listed is still the case, but it has been in the past.

personally, I have never "gamed" on a Mac (Except , nor do I plan to anytime soon... The limited selection of games, and limited placed to buy them them (I have only EVER seen mac games in Micro Center and online) make me not want to even bother trying. besides, thats why I've got x86 pc's.

[sulfo]

gaming on mac probably depends a whole lot on what u want to play...

just as for myself:

1) ut2k4 => running fine under win, linux and osx (pb g4)
2) wow => running fine under win and osx

i guess basically every shooter supporting open gl is fine, so if u play fps there should be no prob...

only gaming i need win for is bf2 at the moment, but hopefully there will be a mac release for that sometime as well...

and anyway i dont't play as much as i used to anymore, since college and my girlfriend take up most of the time anyway...

true still: if u need ur computer mainly for gaming a mac probably isn't the way to go... however if u stick to one game mostly anyway (for example competitive ut) and don't care about being able to play a lot of other games u can still stick with a mac...

plus: if an intel mac is able to dual boot osx and win u can have both, but i guess we'll have to see about that...

sorry for the lot of neways, i guess the beer is getting the best of me

Edited by TomSteR, 30 December 2005 - 12:26 AM.

[bjr1028]

zerozerosix, on Dec 5 2005, 02:38 AM, said:

Apple should support DirectX It would be a great step by simplifiying a lot game porting process... but I doubt Microsoft would allow that, they want Vista to be a game platform... sad.

DX was purposely tied closely to windows so it would not be easy to port.  Believe me, the issue came up during anti-trust proceedings.  I would like to see it for DirectPlay networking purposes alone though.

Anyway, Apple giving a damn about games would be a start as would a game device preference pane.

[SenVa]

I was told vista was going to cripple OpenGL drivers... This will screw over the few mac games that come out... who is going to make a opengl based game if it will run like {censored} on windows.  I'm not sure if DirectX could be ported but something like Irrlicht or Orge3D built into osx would solve this.

Irrlicht and Orge3D are 3D APIs that run on DirectX and OpenGL.  they also have Windows Linux and OSX support.

[jb_gmd]

SenVa, on Feb 23 2006, 07:42 PM, said:

I was told vista was going to cripple OpenGL drivers... This will screw over the few mac games that come out... who is going to make a opengl based game if it will run like {censored} on windows.  I'm not sure if DirectX could be ported but something like Irrlicht or Orge3D built into osx would solve this.

Irrlicht and Orge3D are 3D APIs that run on DirectX and OpenGL.  they also have Windows Linux and OSX support.

  
LOL now thats a conspiracy theory if I ever heard one you do know that it would also make older opengl games suck ass too right? don't you think people would be like.. "Hey your new OS is slow! Nobody buy it!"

[SenVa]

It is only opengl they are slowing down... It is now a layer over direct x It  can slow opengl 50% and it disables all the things OGL can do that DirectX cannot.  It is to force developers to use directx (windows only) for game development.  This will make porting games to linux and mac allot harder.

Yes it will make many old OpenGL games slower... Up to 50% slower.

Its not a matter of no one buying it... Wista will ship with millions of dell and gateway systems... developers will have to conform...

articals about this...
http://channel9.msdn...px?PostID=99989
http://slashdot.org/...06/177251.shtml
http://www.astahost....hics_t7377.html

[A Nonny Moose]

Games need ridiculous processing power and 1 GHz to a game company is 1 GHz, regardless of processor architecture (this came directly from Aspyr in an interview for Macworld).  Also, to get timely ports, Altivec support is not really considered (because games have to be coded to specifically take advantage of Altivec) and neither are multiple processors (same reason).

Systemwise, the Mac represents the ultimate disposable gaming machine.  An iMac G5 can run just about any game in the Mac market, and will for a few years.  When it gets outdated, plunk down for a new iMac (and gamers are well known for spending $5000+ for systems).  The only problem lies in it not running the Windows "insecurity blanket" that people seem to want.

With that being said, the best way to support Mac gaming is to actually BUY MAC GAMES and NOT PIRATE/STEAL THEM.  Since the Mac is a smaller market, it is hit even worse by people stealing software.  In other words, there is less of a profit margin in a Mac market than a Windows market and that's simply because of the numbers game.  Take Halo for instance.  For every one legit copy of Halo running around, there are at least three illegal copies.  How is it profitable to make a Mac game if people aren't going to buy the bloody thing?

[SenVa]

@A Nonny Moose
That is really true...  I'm not sure if the ratio is really 1:3 but it is still too high.

Im not sure how to really end bootleging though... No matter what you do people will find a way to steal a game.

[Mac OSX Coder]

more games. better graphics card. that's it.

[A Nonny Moose]

Mac OSX Coder, on Mar 2 2006, 01:33 AM, said:

better graphics card.

Can't have anything better when ATI has the strangehold on the Mac market.  They can release any kind of crap they want at Apple and they're right now forced to take it.  At least when NVidia worked with Apple, there was some competition.

[anhaedra]

SenVa, on Feb 23 2006, 11:50 PM, said:

It is only opengl they are slowing down... It is now a layer over direct x It  can slow opengl 50% and it disables all the things OGL can do that DirectX cannot.  It is to force developers to use directx (windows only) for game development.  This will make porting games to linux and mac allot harder.

Yes it will make many old OpenGL games slower... Up to 50% slower.

Its not a matter of no one buying it... Wista will ship with millions of dell and gateway systems... developers will have to conform...

articals about this...
http://channel9.msdn...px?PostID=99989
http://slashdot.org/...06/177251.shtml
http://www.astahost....hics_t7377.html

So... Why not just put a bit more effort into making it run in both OpenGL and Direct X, but primarily Direct X? I don't see much of an issue here. Just make it use both, so it can be ported.

[ozzie123]

That means that a game developer will need more time on developing their games. More time = more money. More money on cost means thinner margin for them. Not a viable business model, eh?

[Sabr]

In my opinion, Apple can't make gaming any better... Sure, they can add in better graphics cards, etc... that makes the game itself better, but not exactly gaming.

If you want a gaming computer, you need a computer that supports all games, which OS X doesn't.

So, now they have made Boot Camp, OS X isn't going to be used for gaming much longer, since it now has Windows support, which means people are going to be installing their games on the XP Partition of their Apple Computer. Until OS X dominates the majority of computer operating systems, (right now, it's 5% or something...), they aren't going to get anywhere fast...