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Israel and Palestine


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#21
free30

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The world needs to let Isral sleep in the bed it has made for its self. The Isralis thinks the land was promised to them by God! And will stop at nothing to get it. Good luck to them. But if you sell them guns, an unrecognised state,(well it was at the time) you are responsible for all the evil that follows. Potect by all means but to arm is naive. But that's whats evil about today's world, money wins over lives.
Free30

Note I say Isralis not Jews.
I studied with an Israli sargent and even he knew the Israli is wrong, not that he would say so, but he would say he knew Isralis think differently from everyone else.

Edit. I'm very sorry to anyone born into it on either side. The limits of your relaity are controled those around you. Question all.

#22
munky

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gwprod12 - from the news.bbc article:

"The Zionist project of the 1920s and 1930s saw hundreds of thousands of Jews emigrating to British Mandate Palestine, provoking unrest in the Arab community.

In 1922, a British census showed the Jewish population had risen to about 11% of Palestine's 750,000 inhabitants. More than 300,000 immigrants arrived in the next 15 years. "

I know there were jews there already, but it does sound like a massive influx. I mean, dont get me wrong - after WW2 I can totally understand them wanting their own state. I'm just not sure about some of the methods employed...

Also, at that time, Jews represented about a third of the population, yet the UN partition plan would award them 56% of the land. If I were Palestinian, I think i'd reject that too.

#23
Mebster

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I actually wish the mod that had edit that last post by biorobot had left it in.

Just to show the rest of the community how much of an arse wipe he is.
-------------------

Isreal will always stand, and their enemies will be destroyed.

:blink: He hates Muslims. FULL STOP. Do reason necessary. He has tried provoking Islam more than once now. Why, I don't know. Maybe he was raped by a someone who he thought was a Muslim....but well I guess we'll never know.

I don't know about you, but I don't know ANYONE who would embrace a Jihad religion that encourages taking innocent blood in the name of a holy war without cause.


Weird comment considering more people are becoming Muslim now than every before (excluding the start of Islam)

He clearly wants the destruction of Islam. That’s just weird considering he's a Christian. And a faithful one according to himself (cough). I'm just tired of all this Islam bashing from him, given that i do not do any Christianity bashing. And why should I? Its wrong.

Mate I don't care if you are the best friend an Israeli could ever have. Good for them. And I don't care if you earn more than some of us can dream of....
Just stop the bashing. If everyone else (except the other retard, biorobot) can hold their tongue, you should be able to as well.

gwprod12 i didn't say Islam was better but surely for me to choose to believe and practice it i must believ that. Surely everyone who follows a faith must believ that what they follow is the better choice. Otherwise what is the point?

(Mash peoople have said stuff about me and i have not asked it removed. This guy needs to know what he's doing. So leave this here. Also i've removed a large part to try and get along.)

#24
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No one reasonable wants Islam to be destroyed. Everyone just wants Islam to stay over there. Leave us out of it.

#25
killbot1000

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Both sides are acting like whiney babies...they really just need to grow up, both of them, and treat eachother like human beings. Contrary to popular belief the Muslims treated the jews just fine in "the golden age of islam" much better than jews were treated in europe during the same time. Really both sides just need to let go of their past grievances and move on...this {censored} is really making me sick...

#26
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Islam is currently in a dark age. Joy.

#27
free30

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Islam is currently in a dark age. Joy.


I'm no expert but why type hateful {censored} like that? All you do is show how little you know.
How dose a religion have a dark age?
Free30

#28
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Just a note: This is not another thread about Islam, so posts about that will be BALETED! (To quote homestar runner)

Ace- I deleted your post because 1)you called the guy a retard and 2) all the stuff you were responding to had already been deleted by a mod in one case or the poster in another. I'll let this last one stand, but let's try to keep it civil, ok? No namecalling.

Also, where did you get those numbers you quoted earlier?

Munky-
Yeah, that journal article is pretty right wing... a little too much for my taste, but it brings up a good point: The US wants (as does the rest of the world) to cut down or terrorism but the states that are sponsoring it aren't getting much punishment. Is the US the world police? Nah, they shouldn't be... but someone is going to have to do something about Syria and Iran because, frankly, they're threats to everyone.

That article did make some great points (at the beginning) about Israel defending itself.

I'm expressing my views on this just because I'm tired of the world saying that Israel is overreacting. Their soldiers have been kidnapped. That's grounds for war. Period.

#29
gwprod12

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How does a religion have a dark age? Let's see. When Christianity first became a big deal, it was during roman times. When the empire fell, instead of people living a civilized existence in cities with plumbing and whatnot, they burned witches and were afraid of spirits in their dung houses. Hence, the Dark Ages. They didnt call them that because they were dark.

Two hundred years ago, Baghdad was the height of civilized society. So was Constantinople. With the dissolution of the Ottoman empire, the peoples in the middle east have gone from education and culture to suicide bombers and religious hate schools.

See where I'm going? Is it maybe more fair to call it the "Middle Eastern Dark Age"? vs the "European Dark Age"? Maybe. But just as Christianity was the major influence on people's lives in the christian dark ages, so too is Islam in the islamic dark ages. A thousand years ago, Knights of Europe were called apon to cleanse the land of the unbeliever. In the present, Hamas and Al-queda are called apon to cleanse the land of the unbeliever.

#30
moseschrist

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"
"The Zionist project of the 1920s and 1930s saw hundreds of thousands of Jews emigrating to British Mandate Palestine, provoking unrest in the Arab community.

In 1922, a British census showed the Jewish population had risen to about 11% of Palestine's 750,000 inhabitants. More than 300,000 immigrants arrived in the next 15 years. "

I know there were jews there already, but it does sound like a massive influx. I mean, dont get me wrong - after WW2 I can totally understand them wanting their own state. I'm just not sure about some of the methods employed...
"

those immigrants came to israel and settled on lands which were either bought off by the "Keren Kayemet Le`Israel", an organization dedicated to collonising israel with jewish ppl, others have settled on barrier lands, and started communities based on agriculture, they worked together with the muslim and christian residents but mainly they were all jewish communities.
no one took the lands of the muslims on those days.
the problem was when the UN came up with a plan to divide the land to an arab state and an israeli state,
the jews accepted, the arabs objected, and all the surrounding arab nations started a war against the new country, the israelis had "won" (there is no winner in wars, no matter what they tell you !) the arab residents ran away from their lands during the war.
now they want to return to a land that doesn't exist no more, personally i would ask for the same thing, BUT it's unrealized, it can't happen, they cant return to where they lived, those places don't exist. the only solution to this problem will only happen as part of the creation of a palastinian state which will live side by side with israel.

this is my opinion, and AFAIK the opinion of most israelis.


about that overreacting thing,
let me ask one thing, say thay your country is attacked, this is war, right ? and do you attack back, still with me ? would you do to them the exact same thing or at least on that magnitude ?
what good will come of that ? so they againg do the same and you do the same, it would never end, it's just a vicious game for both sides, instead you need to make sure that the one who attacked you understands that this attack will come at a price which they can't afford, they cannot win stuff by shooting rockets, it's too easy, the only way to settle this while sitting on a chair in an airconditioned room behind a table (not the room, you)
unfortunatly there is no one to talk to at the moment, the hamas wants israel gone, the hezbolla wants israel gone, the only one you could talk to is the chairman of the palastinian autority, but he has no power nor control over hamas. big problem aint it ?

#31
gwprod12

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I'm all for Islam, and Christianity and every other religion. Just keep it to yourself. And dont get all freaked out about the "Jewish" conspiracy.

Looking at one side of the situation is always dangerous.

There's those who say "Isreal is just defending itself from evil terrorists, and if you dont agree, you hate jews"
There's those who say "Those mean Jews keep bulldozing poor Palestinian houses. If you dont agree, you hate Islam"

When really, both are true, and in equal proportion. Both sides are at fault.

#32
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kum ba ya my ........ errr

how does an agnostic complete this tune in a politically correct manner :(

seems like history is full of bloodshed surrounding religious motivations

not too holly if you ask me

#33
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I suppose that in practice, any military force could be considered terrorists...

Is a terrorist someone who kills people?

I don't believe so. A terrorist force would probably be one that clashes down on 'civilians' as a 'civilian'. Military would be considered war, or battle. Killing is killing, but there are different classifications of killing. I would suppose it depends on if you stand on 'government' side of the fence, or 'civilian' side of the fence.

If military kills a civilian, its murder, not terrorism. If military kills military its war/battle. Militant leaders could probably be classified as terrorists if they kill 'mass' numbers of civilians in the ranges of thousands.

It all boils down to a classification system.

#34
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He hates Muslims. FULL STOP. Do reason necessary. He has tried provoking Islam more than once now. Why, I don't know.

Your extremists also assumed America was "The Great Satan" or some other {censored} like that too. Your post being removed just shows how easily Muslim extremists are "set off".

I never said I hated anyone. If you read my other posts you would know that "I hate the devil inside the person." not the person.

Maybe he was raped by a someone who he thought was a Muslim....but well I guess we'll never know.

Does the Koran encourage that? I guess running Boeing AirBuses into large buildings isn't enough. I guess you are pissed because the Jews are God's chosen people... and not the Muslims. You guys have been fighting for years. I can see why Israel is winning.

I was gonna stay out of this for the most part. But it looks like I have set off a ticking time bomb.. Oops. Maybe I shouldn't use the word "bomb" around you.

#35
Mebster

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No one reasonable wants Islam to be destroyed. Everyone just wants Islam to stay over there. Leave us out of it.

What do you mean leave us out of it? Islam isn't an object that I can hand to you. It's a belief you have. And I知 sure regardless of where you live, there are countless number of people who have become (not born) Muslim. So you want them to 'leave' also?
People keep saying 'leave us out'. I've heard it too often. But they don't really know this isn't possible even if Muslims wanted to. Since people in remote countries are becoming Muslims not necessarily through direct contact with Muslims but using the internet and other sources now available. So dude... we can't leave you out.

Both sides are acting like whiney babies...they really just need to grow up, both of them, and treat each other like human beings. Contrary to popular belief the Muslims treated the Jews just fine in "the golden age of Islam" much better than Jews were treated in Europe during the same time.

I really wise more people knew that about Muslims. And how they were more fait to minorities than any nation at the time was. Compared to most countries now, they are still more fair. That's partly why i feel bitter. Muslims treated the Jew well... all they do in return in bomb.

Islam is currently in a dark age. Joy.

Dark ages? lol. You really don't know anything about Islam. When were blacks given right and the recognition in the 'modern-western' world? About 40 years ago? Islam more than 1400 years ago! When were woman given rights? About the same time? Islam 1400 years ago! Islam is a lot more advanced than you give it credit. Unless you also classify 40 years ago the 'dark ages' too.

And you can't compare the Christian crusade with Muslims. Christians invaded and killed... without reason. Muslims did not. Sure some twats did. And large sections may have gone astray but that痴 what happens in life.

I'm no expert but why type hateful {censored} like that? All you do is show how little you know.

I know what you mean dude. That sort of {censored} shouldn't be said to anyone. Muslim or Jew. It's just hurtful unnecessarily.

Ace- I'll let this last one stand, but let's try to keep it civil, ok? No namecalling.

Sorry dude. OryHara just pisses me off with his arrogance. It's intoxicating!

Munky-
The US wants (as does the rest of the world) to cut down or terrorism but the states that are sponsoring it aren't getting much punishment. Is the US the world police? Nah, they shouldn't be... but someone is going to have to do something about Syria and Iran because, frankly, they're threats to everyone.

That article did make some great points (at the beginning) about Israel defending itself.

I'm expressing my views on this just because I'm tired of the world saying that Israel is overreacting. Their soldiers have been kidnapped. That's grounds for war. Period.


The soldiers were kidnapped. Not killed as we know very well he could have been. Instead of realising that, (what any sane person would) that the solders fate depends direct on how Israel negotiates... What do they do? They bomb other (not Palestinian) nation痴 Airports, streets, Power Plants and Official buildings! Simply on the basis of allegations. WTF? Is this the kind of world we live in? You try someone because you suspect they were involved. ohh yeah... Guantanamo. No wonder the US backs Israel. I'm really not bothered about the soldier being taken as long as he is released safely. (I know many people are and I understand that... but I知 one that is hopeful) The Palestinians need something to bargain with and this is the plainest option available. But bombing foreign nations in not the way to go. As if the suffering of the Palestinian people isn't enough. You have to inflict terror on other nations. BTW yesterday Israel killed people. They killed 12. See what I mean about the disproportionate overreacting?

Iran and Syria a great threat? Have you seen the latest missile tests done my North Korea? Who's the greater threat? Those missiles have the possible capability to reach the US. But wait.... there's no oil in N Korea. Plenty of weapons of mass destruction...but no oil.

I'm sorry to say this people but I知 going to :hysterical: when they flex their muscles and show the world (and especially the US) what they are made of. And when they launch a missile to hit near the US coast I知 going o fall of my seat laughing.

I'm not saying I want any casualties. I just want the American people to "wake up and smell the coffee".

#36
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all they do in return in bomb.

There you go with the "bombs" again. Can you please stop talking about bombs?

I'm sorry to say this people but I知 going to :hysterical: when they flex their muscles and show the world (and especially the US) what they are made of. And when they launch a missile to hit near the US coast I知 going o fall of my seat laughing.

I'm not saying I want any casualties. I just want the American people to "wake up and smell the coffee".

I fell off my seat laughing when they stealth bombed Iraq's airports. And dug your glorious leader out of a hole in the ground. :hysterical:

#37
gwprod12

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Hm... Muslims kept Christian slaves until the fall of the Ottoman empire. Look it up.

I'm not going to be converted. I dislike all religions equally (maybe Christianity more, but whatever). If you wanna be a muslim, be a muslim. I couldnt care less what god you pray to, or what kind of foods you can eat. I live in a pluralistic society where religion is a personal thing not to be foisted on others (ideally).

And, if you cant parse my english, dont try. I didnt say "Muslims, go away", I said "Leave us out of your Muslimness". That goes for everyone else too. Leave "me" out of your Christianity, your Buddhism, your Islam, your Wicca. I'm not interested. If you like them, great. Draw your sense of self-worth from yourself and not how "accepted" your religion is.

It boils down to this. I cant stomach the idea of Islam with it's current followers taking control of the world. I wont accept religious fundementalism. Period.

#38
killbot1000

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Hm... Muslims kept Christian slaves until the fall of the Ottoman empire. Look it up.

I'm not going to be converted. I dislike all religions equally (maybe Christianity more, but whatever). If you wanna be a muslim, be a muslim. I couldnt care less what god you pray to, or what kind of foods you can eat. I live in a pluralistic society where religion is a personal thing not to be foisted on others (ideally).

And, if you cant parse my english, dont try. I didnt say "Muslims, go away", I said "Leave us out of your Muslimness". That goes for everyone else too. Leave "me" out of your Christianity, your Buddhism, your Islam, your Wicca. I'm not interested. If you like them, great. Draw your sense of self-worth from yourself and not how "accepted" your religion is.

It boils down to this. I cant stomach the idea of Islam with it's current followers taking control of the world. I wont accept religious fundementalism. Period.



I second that...

#39
Mebster

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Hm... Muslims kept Christian slaves until the fall of the Ottoman empire. Look it up.

I'm not going to be converted. I dislike all religions equally (maybe Christianity more, but whatever). If you wanna be a muslim, be a muslim. I couldnt care less what god you pray to, or what kind of foods you can eat. I live in a pluralistic society where religion is a personal thing not to be foisted on others (ideally).

And, if you cant parse my english, dont try. I didnt say "Muslims, go away", I said "Leave us out of your Muslimness". That goes for everyone else too. Leave "me" out of your Christianity, your Buddhism, your Islam, your Wicca. I'm not interested. If you like them, great. Draw your sense of self-worth from yourself and not how "accepted" your religion is.

It boils down to this. I cant stomach the idea of Islam with it's current followers taking control of the world. I wont accept religious fundementalism. Period.


I understand what you're saying but let me tell you I know too many people who have become Muslim from people on the streets, on the net, books, lectures that have preached about Islam. Too many. And most of them were from a Christian background. Don't know why.

I've said this before, I know a WHITE (English) guy who recently at the age of around 60 became Muslim. Now if I went and asked him... "would you rather Muslims did not approach you and your neighbours" I知 sure he would not say yes.

I'm sure you don't want Muslims coming up to you but there are many that will appreciate it eventually.
It's like those people who ask you to give money to charity. Most people try to avoid them even though you know they're doing a good job. But once in a while someone will stop because they understand this is a good cause.

"Hm... Muslims kept Christian slaves until the fall of the Ottoman empire. Look it up." - The Ottomans did a lot that isn't very Islamic so using them as a standard is like using the Christian crusaders to judge the current Christians. But one thing I do know is that in Islam (don't know about the Ottomans but like I said doesn稚 matter) slaves were treated well. This is unlike the slavery of the Europeans and US where they shipped thousands of slaves to do their work. Many of whom died on route or after hard labour. The reason Muslims treated them well is because they know that Allah will finally grudge the "master". As to Allah the salve means just as much to him as does its master.

#40
gwprod12

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"The Ottomans did a lot of non-islamic things" yah yah... they were the face of Islam. Just like Jerry Falwell and Hitler are the face of Christian fundamentalism. The fact is, it may not be Islamic to do it, but Islamic culture until recently hasnt been emancipatory in the least. Please dont act like Islam is all niceness and respect.

And frankly... it's insulting and revolting when people try to spread their religion. It's always to "help people find the way". If I decide I want to learn about Islam or Jehova's Witness or whatever, I'll go looking for it, I dont need people banging on my door to "help me".

If you want people to respect your religion, you HAVE to respect their religion, or lack of one. And prosletizing is the opposite of respect.





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