654 replies to this topic

[Forceman]

You dont have proof it's not badly written but one could deduce over the years it is. Blame drivers all you want but the kernel has a say in how it handles crashes on a software level.

[Maxintosh]

robotskip, on Dec 24 2007, 04:57 PM, said:

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16832116202http://www.newegg.co...N82E16832110024

LOL, you just like to keep walking in deep do-do don't you?   Now you're trying to compare the bottom of the line OEM 'Home' version of vista, with the top of the line RETAIL version of Leopard?   That's a bit disingenuous to say the least. Oh and we only paid 79.00 for our RETAIL copy of Leopard so you're pricing is a bit off, much like your so-called facts. Yes we're all fully aware that Leopard has only one version, one version that is the equivalent in status to the top of the line version of vista, you know, the version that has ALL of the features   So what you're essentially saying is that for 109.00 you can either buy the lowly OEM home version of vista, or the version of Leopard that contains ALL of the features. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my, it looks like vista isn't a very good value now does it Toto? THANK YOU for pointing that out to all of us robotskip. Don't forget to wipe the do-do off of your shoes  

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Purchasing Vista Ultimate is pretty ridiculous

Some would say the same thing about any version of vista  

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Ultimate isn't the only version

You have no idea just how HAPPY I am that you brought this point up. Let's look at all of the many umpteen multitudes of vista, shall we? Like I said robotskip, you just like to keep walking in deep do-do don't you   As a consumer that could get rather confusing trying to pick out the 'right' version of vista, now couldn't it? On the other hand Leopard has but ONE version, and it has ALL the top features, all the cool buttons and bells, at one low price. According to microsoft, Vista's version that has all the features cost $450.00!!! Wow, for a few bucks more a consumer could get a Mac Mini which includes Leopard, Gigabit Ethernet, iPhoto, iDVD, iWeb, iMovie, Front Row, GarageBand, AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, and a nifty little remote control    As a consumer I gotta tell ya, that's not a hard choice to make, perhaps that's why Apples market share has been continuously growing (hint, hint) Hey robotskip, got any more cans of worms you want to open up?

erei33, on Dec 24 2007, 03:57 PM, said:

implying that Mac (and Hackintosh ) users got updates while Windows users didn't.

No, I was implying that Apple takes care of their OS for their customers, while microsoft WAITS and tries to do everything all at once - years later. Here's a perfect example; Leopard used to have this nasty bug where it wouldn't remember your mail password, so everyday you'd have to keep typing it in over and over again for each and every mail account that you had. Many people have more than one e-mail account so this bug was a royal pain in the butt to say the least. It took Apple all of 3 weeks to fix it. Now if that were microsoft they'd wait and just include it in their SP, while customers would be waiting and being inconvenienced. Seriously, for most customers having to wait a year and a half for a service pack is just too damn long. Microsoft tends to like to blow their load all at once, while Apple tends to do it in bite sized pieces. As a consumer many people prefer the way that Apple handles major updates. Microsoft does some things better than Apple, but the way they handle their major updates isn't one of them.

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A service pack is of much greater magnitude than a third digit update from Apple.

As pointed out above, that's a corporate decision. Microsoft could handle updates the same way that Apple does if they wanted to, they just don't want to. Meanwhile the windows customer is being inconvenienced to say the least.

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I'm just trying to provide some clarification here

And I appreciate that. Clarification is always a good thing  

[Forceman]

Comparing a OEM Vista Premium with Leopard is a joke.

[Numberzz]

Home Premium doesn't have all the features that Ultimate does.  Leopard has all the features, no matter which version.  I guess.

[Maxintosh]

That's right, in order to compare apples with apples (no pun intended) you'd have to compare ultimate with Leopard (both retail versions). Using newegg as a base you'd be paying 320.00 for ultimate VS. 110.00 for Leopard. In other words, windows costs 3 TIMES MORE!  

Can I hear a AMEN?  








PS-don't forget to check out the ratings of each OS while you're at newegg. Over half gave Leopard 5 stars. Windows received over half too, but it was for being LESS than 5 stars  

[pyrates]

Maxintosh, on Dec 24 2007, 08:47 PM, said:

That's right, in order to compare apples with apples (no pun intended) you'd have to compare ultimate with Leopard (both retail versions). Using newegg as a base you'd be paying 320.00 for ultimate VS. 110.00 for Leopard. In other words, windows costs 3 TIMES MORE!  :blink:

Funny, when I priced it, it was much less.  Here too.

Price for Vista on a previous computer since windows xp was released: $169.99

Price for OS X with purchasing every upgrade previously:
10.2 upgrade $129.00
10.3 upgrade $129.00
10.4 upgrade $129.00
10.5 upgrade $109.00
Total: $496.00

Now here's the reasoning why.  Since windows xp and os x's debut as released operating systems, there have been OS upgrades.  With OS X there have been a total of 4 new versions.  With Windows, there has been one.  So while you claim OS X is cheaper now, if you count the last 6 years, it's actually more expensive.  Now when you buy a version of windows, there is generally 3 versions you can get.  A full retail version, an upgrade version, and an oem version.  All will work just fine.  But since in order to buy OS X and run it legally, you have to have a version on your mac already that you plan to upgrade to, hence in this case the upgrade or oem version is appropriate to use of windows to compare it to.  In other words, every version of OS X sold is considered to be an upgrade or oem version, never full version.  You can ignore the oem version all you want, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and that I can't use it.  It's available to me, therefore I can use it.

But lets compare feature wise.  Why is ultimate or the business version of windows vista required for business?  Because it has remote access and group policies for integration with active directory.  If you want that with leopard or any version of os x, it's gonna cost ya extra.  Here's some solutions that you can get.  The last one was the apple remote desktop package, which also adds in the ability to install apps and updates remotely.  Of course all these cost extra.  But this is what ultimate provides.  If you don't need all this, then vista home premium is just fine for you.  And cheaper at only $109.99.  Show me a feature in ultimate that you need compared to home premium.  I will name one that I do want in home premium, which I think Microsoft is stupid not to enable, is shadow copy aka previous version.  Come on Microsoft, enable it.  But go ahead and name another one that it should be providing that is in ultimate that isn't in home premium for a home user.  If you can't, then comparing leopard to home premium is just fine for most home users.

I also want to know where you can buy leopard for $79 only.  Please do tell.

Maxintosh, on Dec 24 2007, 08:47 PM, said:

Can I hear a AMEN?  :D
PS-don't forget to check out the ratings of each OS while you're at newegg. Over half gave Leopard 5 stars. Windows received over half too, but it was for being LESS than 5 stars  :P

Please stop right their.  All I can picture right now is a 13 year old kid whose living in their parents basement who doesn't get out much.  Makes me feel sorry for you.  You are NOT a preacher.  Stop acting like you are.  And declaring you won, is like the Roman's conquering a land, you sneaking in and whispering you won while they are all asleep.  You don't win an argument by declaring yourself the winner before you hear the argument against it.  You're about as obvious as a politician now as you're trying to spin your previous answers so you don't look like a jack ass.  It doesn't work.  You may try to be a smart ass, but you need to be smart first.

I will say a few more things though.  That leopard 10.5.1 was to fix a major data loss bug mainly, and other small fixes, but mainly this.  I even included a link on how to replicate it.  You chose to ignore it though I see, typical.  It was such a simple bug too.  Move any data from one storage device to another, if you pull the plug or lose the connection to the storage device while the move is happening, you lose any data that wasn't moved.  How did this get past Q&A?  Either they never tested for this bug.  Or were aware of it and leopard had to be out on time no matter what.  Some people claim apple never rushes software out the door but if they knew about this bug, then obviously they rushed leopard out.

You claimed Microsoft waits a whole year and a half to release sp1 for windows vista, yet you ignore the fact that there has been updates out for windows vista already through windows update.  You obviously have no idea what a service pack is supposed to do.  It's supposed to include all the updates that were released, and some fixes that aren't needed to be applied yet and can wait for a service pack.  So no we're not waiting for updates for windows vista at all.  Plus Microsoft releases updates monthly as they are needed.  Where is OS X's monthly updates?  None here.  They apparently do their updates in .1 version updates.  But it's not on a regularly scheduled process, unlike windows, which corporations like.  Apple just lets the updates loose without notifying anyone of when they should expect updates regularly.

As for the reason why windows vista seems slower.  The graphics and audio subsystems are now run in user mode.  The result of this is that it is slower, but not noticeably.  Least not to me.  But the result is also that it is more stable.  That glitch where the display has recovered, normally would have been a BSOD.  But because it is run in user mode instead of kernel mode, that no longer occurs.  You do want it to be more stable right?  And mostly the graphics drivers from nvidia and ati problems have been ironed out.  It is a new kernel after all.  And yes I do game on Vista.  And for anyone that is gonna quote Peter Gutmann for criticizing windows vista, his claims have mostly been defeated with real world use and other testimonies.  He even admitted that he didn't even run windows vista to write his famous paper.  It's all theory.

Can you watch bluray or hddvd on leopard?  Nope.  Only on Windows Vista.  I also like that Windows is the only OS to have a smp aware h.264 codec that works for all levels.  There isn't one available for os x.  Just the limited one that quicktime includes.

Now here is my proper post, please respond to this as I was having connection problems then.

[Maxintosh]

pyrates, on Dec 24 2007, 10:10 PM, said:

Funny, when I priced it, it was much less.

The only funny part is that as an adult you still can't grasp the concept of what it means to compare apples to apples.

Here, maybe this will help  

To bad you spent all that time writing that nice post and none of it means jack  

[pyrates]

Maxintosh, on Dec 24 2007, 10:31 PM, said:

The only funny part is that as an adult you still can't grasp the concept of what it means to compare apples to apples.

Here, maybe this will help  

To bad you spent all that time writing that nice post and none of it means jack  

Please don't mix up opinion and fact.  Yours is all opinion it seems since you've shown no facts what so ever.

[Maxintosh]

Well you've proven that don't understand the elementary concept of comparing apples to apples, so why should we expect you to understand what a 'fact' is? LOL  

[pyrates]

Maxintosh, on Dec 24 2007, 11:42 PM, said:

Well you've proven that don't understand the elementary concept of comparing apples to apples, so why should we expect you to understand what a 'fact' is? LOL  

Now you're a true politician.  Never answering direct questions, instead you come up with some witty remark.  I feel sorry for you.  Guess you don't win many debates.  Haven't you been humiliated enough on here?

[Maxintosh]

Humiliated?    You're the one who thinks vista is good  

I'll bet you have a pet rock, and a Edsel parked in your garage  

[pyrates]

Maxintosh, on Dec 25 2007, 01:36 AM, said:

Humiliated?    You're the one who thinks vista is good  

I'll bet you have a pet rock, and a Edsel parked in your garage  

I do like vista.  What do I not like about leopard or OS X in general?  I gotta buy a mac to use it.  It won't run on a pc.  The way apps are designed to be accessed doesn't allow a lot of applications to be installed.  There is no real file manager like windows has, ala windows explorer.  You can't maximize windows with it.  The menu bar is always at the top of the monitor instead of being part of each window.  This is especially annoying on 24" monitors.  There is no uninstall wizard that each application has to provide so u end up with bits and pieces of applications if you install them using a wizard or even if you just drag and drop them, there is still the preference files they leave everywhere.  You can't easily boot more then one OS on a mac itself easily.  The unnecessaryness of the menu bar being transparent, there was no reason for usability to do that.

What do I like about Vista?  Now the gui runs on the graphics card so its smooth, but it doesn't get in my way.  Graphics and audio is now in user level mode so it allows for a lot more recovery if the driver crashes.  I can run as a regular user and if I need to do something that requires admin access, I just input the admin password.  All my old windows programs still work.  The backwards compatibility built in so that if an app doesn't work, there are ways to make it compatible.  It has the best irc client in the world, mirc.  It has a smp aware h.264 codec that works up to level 5.1.  It has rdp built into it so that I can access it remotely if I need to.  All my hardware is supported.  Bluray and HDDVD is supported in it.  When browsing the start menu, I can use my scroll wheel on my $12 mouse, that beats the mighty mouse, so that I don't have to move it a whole lot like I did with windows xp, where it would sometimes accidentally close.

You got anything else you wanna say?  Besides lying, spinning, and backpedaling your answers.

[Colonel]

pyrates, on Dec 25 2007, 04:06 AM, said:

You got anything else you wanna say?  Besides lying, spinning, and backpedaling your answers.

PCs are for fart huffers and Macs get you laid.

[CLiDE FTW!!1]

Colonel, on Dec 25 2007, 10:23 AM, said:

PCs are for fart huffers and Macs get you laid.

Bahah, I love this line, Colonel.

[Maxintosh]

pyrates, on Dec 25 2007, 02:06 AM, said:

I do like vista.

Isn't that like bragging about voting for bush?    

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I gotta buy a mac to use it.  It won't run on a pc.

I'll split the difference with you here. I'd like to run OS X on a PC too, but it's not going to happen for many reasons. I have sold many Macs this year, most costing around 500.00 (the mini's) and each and every customer that has bought one has made it a point to walk up to me and THANK ME afterward. I can't say that about those who bought a pc with vista. Infact most of the vista customers have come back complaining. In your little bubble you think that vista is the cats meow, but I'm telling you that in the real world the general public disagrees with you. The proofs in the pudding, and you're in denial. Besides, why would you want Leopard to run on your pc anyway? I mean you're soooo in love with vista right? It almost sounds like you're jealous more than anything (don't they call that Mac envy?) and it appears that may be your real underlying motive for supporting vista.

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The menu bar is always at the top of the monitor instead of being part of each window.

Didn't like this at first either, but now we love it! We also love the fact that all Mac programs use the same menu layout, so if you know how to use one Mac program, you're well on your way to knowing how to use most of them. For our older clients this is a God send.

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There is no uninstall wizard that each application has to provide so u end up with bits and pieces of applications if you install them using a wizard or even if you just drag and drop them, there is still the preference files they leave everywhere.

For most programs this is not even a issue. For the remainder (or since it's Christmas - for the reindeer) there is AppZapper. You were saying...

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The unnecessaryness of the menu bar being transparent

We have not seen this on any of our Macs, so it's a non-issue.

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When browsing the start menu, I can use my scroll wheel on my $12 mouse, that beats the mighty mouse

Mighty mouse?   One word --> Trackman