gwprod12 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Is gasoline murder or only manslaughter? you decide. If you don't understand what I mean, let's think about it. All over the world, men, women and children are being slaughtered for no better reason than to pump dead dinosaurs from the ground. If you use gas, you're complicit... but how complicit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numberzz Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I hear you man. However, what are we supposed to do? I live in a small town on top of a mountain. Local public transport is nonexistent. Public transport to other places does exist, to an extent, but it is extremely uncomfortable (the bus station is far from where I live, buses are few, far apart and take a long time to reach their destinations...) I can't walk much or use a bike because I suffer from CFS. Another possibility could be buying an electric car, but I have never seen one. That is probably because they are very expensive and very limited. Don't blame us users. I know for a fact that technologies which would make cars use a fraction of the petrol they use now have been dormant for decades. But neither the oil companies nor governments want that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 My mother says the same "Don't blame the users, blame the big oil companies". Nothing is stopping her from getting a biodiesel vehicle and filling up at one of the local biodiesel stations which use locally produced biodiesel that is cheaper than gas (at current prices here, anyway). Murdering people for money is at least understandable... but murdering people because you can't be bothered not to... inexplicable. If tomorrow everyone who currently uses petroleum products boycotted them in favor of renewables, the oil companies would totally restructure themselves away from oil. The chef doesn't choose what you eat... you do. He only provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apowerr Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 On a list of global priorities, abandoning Gasoline (I realize it'd be a good thing) isn't at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUKKU Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I do what I can to use less gas. My girl and I share one car, it's a small car that gets good gas mileage. I work from home, she's only about 5 miles away from work, and I usually walk over to the store for smaller things. Between the two of us we fill up the tank maybe every 10-15 days. Public transportation is also nonexistent in my city but you can still make do for shorter trips. No matter how much you need a car there's always something you can do to minimize your impact. Carpool to work, combine trips, walk once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 My mother says the same "Don't blame the users, blame the big oil companies". Nothing is stopping her from getting a biodiesel vehicle and filling up at one of the local biodiesel stations which use locally produced biodiesel that is cheaper than gas (at current prices here, anyway). ............................................................ If tomorrow everyone who currently uses petroleum products boycotted them in favor of renewables, the oil companies would totally restructure themselves away from oil. The chef doesn't choose what you eat... you do. He only provides. Of course I'd use biodiesel if it were available here. I have never seen it. At a restaurant you may choose not to eat meat. But when the choice is only between petrol or diesel, what do you do? I do what I can to use less gas. My girl and I share one car, it's a small car that gets good gas mileage. I work from home, she's only about 5 miles away from work, and I usually walk over to the store for smaller things. Between the two of us we fill up the tank maybe every 10-15 days. Public transportation is also nonexistent in my city but you can still make do for shorter trips. No matter how much you need a car there's always something you can do to minimize your impact. Carpool to work, combine trips, walk once in a while. Well, my contribution is that I use my (small) car very little. I need no more than 20 or 30 liters diesel a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soündless Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 we drive about 80 miles a day to get from home to work/school. we have a toyota that gets 30mpg, but we're trading it in for a prius eventualy. i want to go biodiesl, but in indiana, foarward thinking is bad and there are no biodeisl stations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLiDE FTW!!1 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 What are you guys talking about?! BUSH IS HELPING THE WORLD!! HE'S KILLING ALL THE BADGUYS!!! ... on a serious note, I wouldn't mind alternatives to fossil fuel; gasoline (and diesel) kills both humans AND my f*cking wallet, although my car is a little MX3 that is better on fuel than a Civic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbetts Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 We rely to much on Gas, that'll be our biggest downfall. It is good to see other resources being used, but they aren't commonly used as what gas is. We'd be SOL if we all of the sudden run out of gas. We're to dependant on it, but that'll stab us right back in the ass. And Bush? God dammit. He makes Americans look stupid because he's representing us Americans. =[ Someone just needs to hit him in the face already. I can also complain about gas prices all I want, as well as other people. But we really can't do anything about it. Which sucks. We can't all switch to a hybrid. I'm poor, and hybrids aren't the cheapest vehicles right now...=[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUKKU Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I can also complain about gas prices all I want, as well as other people. But we really can't do anything about it. Which sucks. We can't all switch to a hybrid. I'm poor, and hybrids aren't the cheapest vehicles right now...=[ Get a 3-5 year old corolla or civic. cheap, good mileage, reliable enough for daily driving. Even if you do have the money a hybrid isn't the most cost-effective way to save gas/money right now. It's more a political/fashion statement than a helpful gesture to the environment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apowerr Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 kills both humans Less Humans= Less Global Warmings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurael Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 You just need to get an old (pre-common rail) diesel with a Bosch fuel pump. They can be adapted fairly cheaply (with increased injector pressure, fuel line pre-heating and hotter, longer running glow plugs) to run on completely normal vegetable oil, which is by definition carbon-neutral. See http://www.elsbett.de The environmental effects can be questioned as growing crops for fuel rather than food is unsustainable (according to some) on a large scale, but research is being done into (GM?) crops that have a much higher oil proportion that would allow global fuel supplies to be grown alongside food crops. Since it's not being used on a large scale at the moment anyway, it's got to be better than dinosaur-fuel. It has the side effect of being much better for the engine too, so the vehicles will last longer - another environmental benefit. Crop-oils are a much better lubricant than petro-chemical diesel, especially the new ultra-low-sulphur types, to which they actually have to add a small proportion of biodiesel to increase the lubricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbetts Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Get a 3-5 year old corolla or civic. cheap, good mileage, reliable enough for daily driving. Even if you do have the money a hybrid isn't the most cost-effective way to save gas/money right now. It's more a political/fashion statement than a helpful gesture to the environment $9,000 isn't cheap to me.>_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal swimmer Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 using ethanol on a large scale is unsustainable, and would damage other industries by driving up the price of corn. Corn is eaten by humans and is instrumental in the feeding of livestock, and a large scale conversion to ethanol would destroy both of these, if such a switch is even possible. Apart from this, the amount of ethanol needed to run the United States, for example, is greater than its own farmland could produce, even if fields now used for food were converted for production of non-food-grade corn. It has been estimated that "if every bushel of U.S. corn, wheat, rice and soybean were used to produce ethanol, it would only cover about 4% of U.S. energy needs on a net basis."[41] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#Use I personally think that mass transit running off (nuclear-generated) electricity is the solution, though that is unfeasible in some areas. hydrogen power looks good too. Carpooling is good (i do that almost everywhere i go). However, biking has some problems. For example, if i ride my bike to my friends house, i have to leave before dark. thats fun. also, if we decide to go somewhere, then my bike is stuck at his house. It is also slow, and not the most ideal after two hard practices that day. Still, I bike a lot, though mostly because i can't drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Is gasoline murder or only manslaughter? you decide. If you don't understand what I mean, let's think about it. All over the world, men, women and children are being slaughtered for no better reason than to pump dead dinosaurs from the ground. If you use gas, you're complicit... but how complicit? Interesting poll... put I think the emphasis is misplaced. We peacefully buy oil from places other than the Middle East, for example Norway, Venezuela and Alaska. No, the real murderers are in the Bush/Cheney regime. They carried out 9/11 to wage war in the Middle East. To the extent that the State of Israel participated in the plot of 9/11, it has less to do with oil and more to do with zionism: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html "By way of deception, thou shalt do war" Motto of the Mossad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Marvin Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 How about "Acceptable"? We've been relying on petrol for too many years, it's time we, as customers loked for alternatives. Which is why hybrid cars, LPG and bio-diesel are becomingso popular over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUKKU Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 $9,000 isn't cheap to me.>_> so buy a 7-10 year old corolla/civic, you should be able to find one for under 5k and $9000 is still a hell of a lot cheaper than the $25k minimum you'll pay for a hybrid car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurael Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Hybrids are bad for the environment because there is almost always viable mass transit within cities (so it's better to use it than any hybrid will be for the environment) and stop-start city traffic is the only place where hybrids have a fuel consumption/environmental benefit over any other modern small-ish petrol-engined car, yet you do have the long-term environmental impact of large battery packs to consider. They're built for yuppies who want to think they're saving the environment whilst refusing to use public transport ("because their poor darlings couldn't possibly walk the half mile home from school") and people trying to avoid the London congestion charge and not much else, I'm afraid. I don't really understand why all the hybrids on the market are petrol models. If we must use dinosaur fuel, diesel has far lower greenhouse gas emissions per-power from the fuel and even the high particulate emissions aren't an issue with the latest generation of particulate filters. Modern Common Rail/PD diesels turn more than 40% of the power in the fuel into motion. That's double the efficiency of most petrol engines. I think too many people (especially in America) are stuck in the past idea of smoky, noisy, underpowered diesel cars. That's very rapidly changing in the UK, and the French and Germans have been buying mostly diesel passenger cars for years. Edit: Perhaps not though. The US still doesn't have low-sulphur diesel?! Wow... I'd hate to be near one of those great big semis for any period of time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Which is why hybrid cars, LPG and bio-diesel are becomingso popular over here It must have happened since I left (February 2005) When I lived in Britain, there was only one place where you could buy LPG in a city the size of Brighton & Hove, too far from the centre. As to biodiesel, I never saw it anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurael Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 LPG has come along in the last few years. A lot of major fuel stations have it now. But it's still not renewable and it's still not carbon neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal swimmer Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Hybrids are bad for the environment because there is almost always viable mass transit within cities (so it's better to use it than any hybrid will be for the environment) and stop-start city traffic is the only place where hybrids have a fuel consumption/environmental benefit over any other modern small-ish petrol-engined car, yet you do have the long-term environmental impact of large battery packs to consider. They're built for yuppies ... .. diesel has far lower greenhouse gas emissions per-power from the fuel and even the high particulate emissions aren't an issue with the latest generation of particulate filters. ... Edit: Perhaps not though. The US still doesn't have low-sulphur diesel?! Wow... I'd hate to be near one of those great big semis for any period of time! Mass transit is not always available, especially in suburban areas. in D.C. and NY its great, but on the west coast (namely San Diego) it is almost nonexistent, especially once you leave downtown. You still have the general stop-start that hybrids excel at, but no mass transit. Just as a test, I went on our local website and planned a trip from home to my high school. It would take 59 minutes for a 10 minute drive. I'm a total yuppy.... This site (just epa ratings) shows that under the new, more accurate ratings, hybrids still have an advantage on the highway (though less so than in stop-start). Today's hybrids use NiMH batteries, .... "Nickel metal hydride batteries are benign. They can be fully recycled," ... Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards. ... There's no definitive word on replacement costs because they are almost never replaced. According to Toyota, since the Prius first went on sale in 2000, they have not replaced a single battery for wear and tear. http://www.hybridcars.com/faq.html#battery this is no worse than lead-acid batteries (see here for more info). I think diesel is a good thing, but that would require the gas station companies to convert to a new system, which costs money, which means that they won't do it unless they have to, and right now no one is making them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OryHara Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 You have these two long things on your body. They are called legs. Use them. I have walked over 80 miles in -10 degree weather seeking gas. Learn how to use your legs. You will need them one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLiDE FTW!!1 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 You have these two long things on your body. They are called legs. Use them. I have walked over 80 miles in -10 degree weather seeking gas. Learn how to use your legs. You will need them one day. Legs are overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurael Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 This site (just epa ratings) shows that under the new, more accurate ratings, hybrids still have an advantage on the highway (though less so than in stop-start). Those ratings are very odd... My dad used to get around 40MPG for motorway journeys out of a Ford Mondeo (Ford Contour/Mercury Mystique to you, apparently) estate with a 2 litre petrol engine and 160k on the clock. I don't believe that a modern Honda civic wouldn't beat that, being a smaller, lighter car, with a smaller, more modern engine. Even my old Peugeot 205 petrol gets about 45MPG, and although it's a small engine (1.1 litre), it's carburated, and modern EFI small cars are much better. Modern large diesels (like the new Passat) are capable of a very real 50MPG+, which is not at all bad for a car with 170bhp in it's top trim with the 2.0 PD engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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