SeanM Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Honestly, the closer Leopard gets it seems less and less likely to me that it'll have a brand new UI, or any "top secret features". 1) Vista is out, it's been finished for a few months now basically. There is no risk of Microsoft stealing any "Top Secret Features". I'm guessing there isn't really any top secret features at all and there never was. 2) A lot of apps have been getting visual tweaks and changes. Why would they bother doing that if there's just gonna be a brand new UI? It'd be wasted work and development time. (Preview, Automator, iCal, DVD Player, etc are some of the apps that changed visually). 3) It's getting way too late for developers to learn of this brand new user interface. Personally I think IF there'll be a new user interface, it would be in 10.6 along with resolution independence - no need to make developers redo the UI in their apps twice. What does everyone else think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Obrien Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 i dont think that leopard is even supposed to have a new UI... or is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonislune Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Honestly, the closer Leopard gets it seems less and less likely to me that it'll have a brand new UI, or any "top secret features". 1) Vista is out, it's been finished for a few months now basically. There is no risk of Microsoft stealing any "Top Secret Features". I'm guessing there isn't really any top secret features at all and there never was. 2) A lot of apps have been getting visual tweaks and changes. Why would they bother doing that if there's just gonna be a brand new UI? It'd be wasted work and development time. (Preview, Automator, iCal, DVD Player, etc are some of the apps that changed visually). 3) It's getting way too late for developers to learn of this brand new user interface. Personally I think IF there'll be a new user interface, it would be in 10.6 along with resolution independence - no need to make developers redo the UI in their apps twice. What does everyone else think? My Magic 8 Ball (yes, the 80s one) said "YES!!!" there will be a consistent UI, but it said "Ask Again" when I asked it, Will the new UI be in 10.5 or 10.6? My bet is we'll see some new skins in Leopard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Fogge Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Apple has been telling Developers at WWDC the following... Where ever possible, use standard UI elements via linking rather than incorporating into your applications. Where you need to do custom UI elements, use Vector Images in black and white, applying all colors, effects, etc. via CoreAnimation's Procedural Rendering Engine. Note, if your App links directly into standard UI elements, then all of the sudden it gets the System UI whatever Apple decides upon. Sure, it could create some visual issues for some programs (think of inadvertently hard coding using a Black font over what you assume is a white window. Something changes and now all of the sudden your text is unreadable. What Apple is saying is "Trust us, let us control the UI." Sure, this could just be because getting resolution independance to work requires a few things like scalable vectors with gradients, shadows, glows, etc applied by a procedural render. Point is that if Developers do what they are supposed to, then it really paves the way for a whole new skinning system if Apple does not change everything. One could simply edit the system-wide resources and get a whole new UI immediately. Plus, I have been working on some apps that make heavy use of CoreAnimation and know that it is pretty easy to create a Vista-Style UI under Leopard if you completely ignore what Apple has to say, use your own resource files and set the procedural render properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollcage Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I believe Apple when they say that there are some top secret features that haven't been revealed. You should know by know that Apple has a habit of keeping things a secret until they want to let it out. As for a new UI, I don't think Apple has really said anything direct. I think I could live with the current UI anyway, other than a couple needed tweaks, it works very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ampidire Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 have you ever thought that maybe we don't know about it's secret features or a new UI because umm, they're secret? hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Take a good look at Time Machine and iTunes before you say Leopard won't get a new UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanM Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Adrian, that is pretty interesting. It seems like Apple could replace the UI in the last minute judging by that. Still I think quite a few developers use custom UI in their apps and it would ruin the look causing them to have to redo things. It's not something they should change so late. have you ever thought that maybe we don't know about it's secret features or a new UI because umm, they're secret? hmm. What would be the reason for keeping things secret though? Don't you think if Apple had some snazzy new UI they'd like to show it off just before Vista releases (make it look outdated, get publicity, hurt Vista hype, etc). Personally I think there never was any "top secret features" and Steve said that just so people wouldn't be disappointed. He probably figured most people would forget he ever said that after a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ampidire Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 What would be the reason for keeping things secret though? Don't you think if Apple had some snazzy new UI they'd like to show it off just before Vista releases (make it look outdated, get publicity, hurt Vista hype, etc). Personally I think there never was any "top secret features" and Steve said that just so people wouldn't be disappointed. He probably figured most people would forget he ever said that after a few months. If there is anyone who wouldn't lie to the Apple community, it's Steve Jobs. If Apple keeps their work quiet, there is more of an impact when it all of the sudden appears on store shelves without any other sort of warning. If you noticed, many of the features in Windows Vista are copied from OS X and other OS', but Bill Gates himself said in an interview that Apple copied features he had been planning for Vista and simply got them to market in a useable fashion sooner, which is hardly true. If Apple doesn't let out what it's been up to, Bill can't claim Apple copied him because he never had these features, so Apple will basically make him eat his words. Jobs hasn't said anything about iLife features or iPhone integration so even those are still secret to us. It also wouldn't be impossible for them to remove things from their builds before they appear on the ADC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sHARD>> Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 If there is anyone who wouldn't lie to the Apple community, it's Steve Jobs. If Apple keeps their work quiet, there is more of an impact when it all of the sudden appears on store shelves without any other sort of warning. If you noticed, many of the features in Windows Vista are copied from OS X and other OS', but Bill Gates himself said in an interview that Apple copied features he had been planning for Vista and simply got them to market in a useable fashion sooner, which is hardly true. If Apple doesn't let out what it's been up to, Bill can't claim Apple copied him because he never had these features, so Apple will basically make him eat his words. Jobs hasn't said anything about iLife features or iPhone integration so even those are still secret to us. It also wouldn't be impossible for them to remove things from their builds before they appear on the ADC. Wait, what? Bill Gates claimed that OS X stole features from Vista. Okay, so it did. All OSes steal from each other, and that's not a bad thing. But your argument is that, if Apple released Leopard with new features that Vista doesn't have, suddenly OS X won't have stolen anything from Vista? So, uh, OS X basically creates a rift in space/time that allows it to alter the past? Sweet, where's my {censored} copy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe75 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 So, uh, OS X basically creates a rift in space/time that allows it to alter the past? Oh...is that what Time Machine is supposed to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sHARD>> Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Oh...is that what Time Machine is supposed to do Wow, it's all clear to me now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ampidire Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 err, I worded that poorly. I should have said that Apple is keeping these features secret so that msft can't copy more of them and release them say as umm, Vista Ultimate Extras etc.. It's not a bad thing that all OS implement similar features as it makes the learning curve between them easier. But I'd like to know what features Apple magically copied from an OS that didn't exist to the public when they released Tiger etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sHARD>> Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 err, I worded that poorly. I should have said that Apple is keeping these features secret so that msft can't copy more of them and release them say as umm, Vista Ultimate Extras etc.. It's not a bad thing that all OS implement similar features as it makes the learning curve between them easier. But I'd like to know what features Apple magically copied from an OS that didn't exist to the public when they released Tiger etc.. Well if you really want to know. Just like Windows, Linux, MacOS Classic, BeOS, NeXT, SkyOS, *gasp for air*, and others, pretty much all the research done by Xerox PARC in the 70s. The fact is that everyone has stolen from everyone, so there's no point in waisting time justifying the legitimacy of various features and their originality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skylor Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 The builds of Leopard that you are currently receiving are months old. They are releasing them ONLY for developers to incorporate Time Machine(so its not a bust and offered with some apps, and not only supported by mac os x) other new Leopard features. Apple is also telling developers to calm down on their UI, and let Apple 'handle' it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Puppy Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Bill can't claim Apple copied him because he never had these features, so Apple will basically make him eat his words. Well, Apple copied the right click sometime after Windows got it... Nevertheless, Microsoft copied lots of Mac stuff. What's shocking is that they also copied the "Unified" look, where the buttons of the applications get onto the title bar. Personally, I do hope that Mac OS X 10.5 will get a new GUI because 1) Aqua is getting old. It was introduced in 2001, if I'm not wrong, and that is as old as Luna in Windows XP (though it beats Luna) 2) Vista is slowly catching up. I'm a great fan of macs and I would hate to see macs lagging behind. 3) Recently Apple hired a (or maybe a few) GUI designers. Goodness knows what they're up to. 4) Updated GUI in applications don't mean anything... maybe apple is up to something drastically different from the GUI theme in iTunes, etc, etc? 5) Apple GUIs is based on the exterior of their computers. Old iMacs have translucent, colorful plastics, so you get the bulbous, glasslike buttons and scrollbars in Aqua. Later, Macbook Pro, Mac Pro, and Apple Cinema monitors are made of brushed metal, thus the brushed metal GUI. Now, the iPhone is something black and shiny, so... ... ? Maybe they are going to redesign their computers too! After all, our current iMac is exactly the same as the iMac G5... And our Mac Pros as old as the Powermacs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanM Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 The problem with letting Apple "handle the UI" is that if they were to change the window style many apps would look like {censored}. Specifically the toolbar icons... Take Camino as an example: Would those icons look good on a brushed metal background? No, they wouldn't. Unless Apple wants there to be a lot of UGLY applications in Leopard, they need to start giving developers an idea of what the UI would be at least. The whole point of developers getting builds is so they can make their apps take advantage of the new technologies and fit in with the OS - why wouldn't they do that with the UI too? That's why I think there won't be one, it's getting far too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mifki Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 whoever said brushed metal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sHARD>> Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 whoever said brushed metal? I believe it was an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mifki Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 ahhh, i can see cleary now, the rain is gone. <-- bad song. I would personally like the ui if ithere is a new ui, to be dark black, not dark brushed metal, but something dark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Puppy Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 It could be that they add a new UI without touching the existing ones. Like, how they added the Brushed Metal UI to Safari and Finder, but then, they still left the rest of the applications etc untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fR00r Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 on the sneak peek page at apple.com , all the videos show the regular tiger interface .. so is there anything that i'm not getting here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Fogge Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Hmm... You do realize that those videos havent been touched since August, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanM Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 It could be that they add a new UI without touching the existing ones. Like, how they added the Brushed Metal UI to Safari and Finder, but then, they still left the rest of the applications etc untouched. Then people would probably be complaining even more about yet another different user interface/window styles. on the sneak peek page at apple.com , all the videos show the regular tiger interface ..so is there anything that i'm not getting here ? There was speculation from some people of one of the "top secret features" being a brand new user interface. I think the only thing we can say for sure UI wise is that Apple is slowly phasing out brushed metal. First iTunes then the iLife suite, and now Automator, iCal, iSync, iChat, DVD Player, etc are no longer brushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_4e Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I think rollcage explained it perfectly. It will be a last minute thing for the "secret" stuff with a possibility of a new UI. The quote from Apple about the UI almost seems like a "be prepared incase this may happen." It doesn't seem definate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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