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Windows 11 - Discussion

naiclub

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Matgen84
Matgen84
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, naiclub said:

I definitely don't think so. If Microsoft actually did that. This means that deprive customers of many. May not let old customers use it in the first start. but may be enabled for later use i think so

 

I think these requirements for Windows 11 are true unfortunately. Microsoft will continue to support Windows 10 until 2025. I have read that it should release version 21H2 aka "October 2021 Update"

Edited by Matgen84
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miliuco
miliuco
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18 hours ago, Hervé said:

So my conclusions are that, with the current beta/dev version made available (build 21996.1):

  1. Win11 needs TPM On/enabled to install
  2. Win11 does not need TPM On/enabled to boot & run
  3. Win11 does not need TPM v2.0 minimum as stated in several places by several people
  4. Win11 does not need Secure Boot as stated in several places by several people
  5. no impact whatsoever to expect for Hackintosh
  6. macOS is still able and will most likely continue to be able to boot and run whether TPM is on or off

In other words, no worries to have...

Excellent summary!!!

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eSaF
eSaF
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One strange quirk that maybe unique to my setup, on enabling TPM for the installation (Intels TPP in the BIOS), the installation was faultless through to the Desktop. On reboot I went back into the BIOS and disabled TPM, saved the setting and rebooted to Windows. On reaching the Desktop the installation complained about activation although it is linked to my Microsoft account, no matter how many times I entered the Product Key the message came up about Activation with a change of Hardware note. I figured by disabling TPM after the installation triggered the activation message. To get over the glitch I again done a clean install leaving TPM enabled and the activation was automatic with no more prompts about activating Windows.

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eSaF
eSaF
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43 minutes ago, HenryV said:

https://fossbytes.com/solve-tpm-2-0-error-installing-windows-11-fixed/

 

Yep! I duly noted the comment about TPM required only for installation not for running but after going through the proper steps of installation and then disabling TPM in the BIOS and rebooting, Windows complained about a change in Hardware and complained about activation even after inserting the product key which caused me to do another fresh install to get rid of the nag message so not wanting to go through the whole scenario again, I left TPM enabled with no adverse effect at the moment dual booting with Monterey. Maybe at some point I will disable TPM and see what result I get.

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Matgen84
Matgen84
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@eSaF For the moment, bypass TPM 2.0 is sufficient to install and run Windows 11. But nobody knows if the module activated is not necessary, to update Windows 11 in the future.

@MifJpn Windows Insider provides less restrictive requirements (CPU, TPM) for those testing Windows. But this is not the final version.
 

 

Another things that I have seen relates to graphics cards: minimal directx12 and WDDM2 compatibility :cry: So good bye old graphics cards.

Edited by Matgen84
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eSaF
eSaF
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From what I have read and seen about acquiring  a TPM module can be a bit of a mine field in selecting the correct one for your board, i.e the correct version, the amount of pins (even if the pins match it may not be compatible for your particular board, you will need to consult you board's manufacturer's website and the info on that is not readily available or even easy to find). There is an intuitive video on YouTube about the subject covering TPM modules to facilitate Windows 11 installation also how to get around the lack of TPM in the BIOS.

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Matgen84
Matgen84
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49 minutes ago, eSaF said:

From what I have read and seen about acquiring  a TPM module can be a bit of a mine field in selecting the correct one for your board, i.e the correct version, the amount of pins (even if the pins match it may not be compatible for your particular board, you will need to consult you board's manufacturer's website and the info on that is not readily available or even easy to find). There is an intuitive video on YouTube about the subject covering TPM modules to facilitate Windows 11 installation also how to get around the lack of TPM in the BIOS.

 

Thanks. :) Windows requires TPM 2.0 module. I can add a TPM card to my old Asus P8Z77-V pro (7 years old): but I don't know if the bios can only handle version 1.2, and if I can found one compatible with my Ivybridge config. :cry:

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naiclub
naiclub
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Just now, Matgen84 said:

 

Thanks. :) Windows requires TPM 2.0 module. I can add a TPM card to my old Asus P8Z77-V pro (7 years old): but I don't know if the bios can only handle version 1.2, and if I can found one compatible with my Ivybridge config. :cry:

gby:thumbsup_anim:

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Matgen84
Matgen84
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39 minutes ago, naiclub said:

gby:thumbsup_anim:

 

2 hours ago, Matgen84 said:

 

Thanks. :) Windows requires TPM 2.0 module. I can add a TPM card to my old Asus P8Z77-V pro (7 years old): but I don't know if the bios can only handle version 1.2, and if I can found one compatible with my Ivybridge config. :cry:

 

Thanks @naiclub The TPM 2.0 card is only supported for Intel platform: 200-series, 100-series, 8-series , 9-series & X99 series or AMD platform: AM4, FM2 series. 

So not compatible for my old Ivybridge Asus P8Z77-V Pro :cry:

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Anto65
Anto65
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13 minutes ago, Matgen84 said:

 

 

Thanks @naiclub The TPM 2.0 card is only supported for Intel platform: 200-series, 100-series, 8-series , 9-series & X99 series or AMD platform: AM4, FM2 series. 

So not compatible for my old Ivybridge Asus P8Z77-V Pro :cry:

Have you tried to bypass TPM 2.0 by replacing the appraiserres.dll file in the iso? There are several videos about it and it seems to work  https://youtu.be/2zowsTt89kg

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Matgen84
Matgen84
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29 minutes ago, antuneddu said:

Have you tried to bypass TPM 2.0 by replacing the appraiserres.dll file in the iso? There are several videos about it and it seems to work  https://youtu.be/2zowsTt89kg

 

Thanks :) I saw several method to bypass TPM 2.0. Windows introduce also DirectX12 and WDDM requirements. Nobody knowns for the moment if the bypass method will prevent windows update from working.

A Microsoft support page states that Windows 10 will be supported until October 14, 2025. So I keep It for my Ivybridge. Also because it is not compatible for Microsoft: minimum requirements Intel 8-11th generation

Only my Z390 will be update to Windows 11. Windows 11 Requires TPM 2.0 (and Secure Boot, rumors). macOS don't support Secure Boot... :cry: 

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Anto65
Anto65
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33 minutes ago, Matgen84 said:

 

Thanks :) I saw several method to bypass TPM 2.0. Windows introduce also DirectX12 and WDDM requirements. Nobody knowns for the moment if the bypass method will prevent windows update from working.

A Microsoft support page states that Windows 10 will be supported until October 14, 2025. So I keep It for my Ivybridge.

Only my Z390 will be update to Windows 11. Windows 11 Requires TPM 2.0 (and Secure Boot, rumors). macOS don't support Secure Boot... :cry: 

however I installed Windows11 with TPM enabled and secure boot disabled ... no problem 

 

As for the trick to bypassing the TPM and having trouble with updates, surely something else will come up to overcome that too 😁

Edited by antuneddu
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fantomas
fantomas
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The first beta is out... build 22000.51

 

You can install it as an update for Win 10 through Windows Insider program or make a search on the web.

 

My preference goes to the UUP (Unified Update Platform)

 

As a side note, I already installed the first leaked pre-release on my Acer TravelMate B3 with an Celeron N4020 that already has TPM 2.0

 

--Edit--

 

I just installed the first beta on VM... created a 40GB virtual disk, the install took ~18GB

 

1.PNG

 

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fusion71au
fusion71au
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On 6/27/2021 at 8:32 AM, Hervé said:

So my conclusions are that, with the current beta/dev version made available (build 21996.1):

  1. Win11 needs TPM On/enabled to install
  2. Win11 does not need TPM On/enabled to boot & run
  3. Win11 does not need TPM v2.0 minimum as stated in several places by several people
  4. Win11 does not need Secure Boot as stated in several places by several people
  5. no impact whatsoever to expect for Hackintosh
  6. macOS is still able and will most likely continue to be able to boot and run whether TPM is on or off

In other words, no worries to have.

 

I no longer have anything older than Ivy Bridge but looking at Dell Latitude laptops going back to Sandy Bridge, 1st gen Arrandale E Series or even old Merom/Penryn D Series, most of them have TPM option in BIOS; as such I reckon that many old systems will still be able to run Win11 and OS X/macOS, as long as the hardware remains supported of course, especially the graphics.

 

I agree with all of @Hervé's comments above. 

 

I downloaded the publicly released Windows 11 21H2 (Build 22000.51) via the UUP method ---> converted to ISO ---> clean installed with Install.wim/DISM from my Windows 10 partition on my legacy BIOS GA-P55aUD3.  In the example below, I was booted into Windows 10 on Disk0 and installing/applying the Windows 11 install.wim onto Disk1 (assigned letter W: to the Windows 11 partition, disk1 partition number3, and letter S: to the Windows 11 system partition, disk1 EFI partition number1).  Note install.wim was located on USB disk2, drive F:\sources\install.wim. 

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.19042.508]
(c) 2020 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>diskpart

Microsoft DiskPart version 10.0.19041.1

Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation.
On computer: DESKTOP-2LR5UL1

DISKPART> list disk

  Disk ###  Status         Size     Free     Dyn  Gpt
  --------  -------------  -------  -------  ---  ---
  Disk 0    Online           32 GB      0 B        *
  Disk 1    Online           60 GB      0 B        *
  Disk 2    Online           59 GB      0 B        *

DISKPART> sel disk 1

Disk 1 is now the selected disk.

DISKPART> list part

  Partition ###  Type              Size     Offset
  -------------  ----------------  -------  -------
  Partition 1    System             199 MB    17 KB
  Partition 2    Reserved           128 MB   200 MB
  Partition 3    Primary             59 GB   328 MB

DISKPART> sel part 1

Partition 1 is now the selected partition.

DISKPART> assign letter=S

DiskPart successfully assigned the drive letter or mount point.

DISKPART> sel part 3

Partition 3 is now the selected partition.

DISKPART> assign letter=W

DiskPart successfully assigned the drive letter or mount point.

DISKPART> exit

Leaving DiskPart...

C:\Windows\system32>F:

F:\>cd sources

F:\sources>Dism /Get-ImageInfo /ImageFile:F:\sources\install.wim

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.22000.1

Details for image : F:\sources\install.wim

Index : 1
Name : Windows 11 Pro
Description : Windows 11 Pro
Size : 18,257,537,525 bytes

The operation completed successfully.

F:\sources>Dism /apply-image /ImageFile:F:\sources\install.wim /index:1 /ApplyDir:W:\

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.22000.1

Applying image
[==========================100.0%==========================]
The operation completed successfully.

F:\sources>bcdboot /?

Bcdboot - Bcd boot file creation and repair tool.

The bcdboot.exe command-line tool is used to copy critical boot files to the
system partition and to create a new system BCD store.

bcdboot <source> [/l <locale>] [/s <volume-letter> [/f <firmware>]] [/v]
                 [/vbcd] [/m [{OS Loader ID}]] [/addlast] [/p] [/c]

  source     Specifies the location of the windows system root.

  /l         Specifies an optional locale parameter to use when
             initializing the BCD store. The default is US English.

  /s         Specifies an optional volume letter parameter to designate
             the target system partition where boot environment files are
             copied.  The default is the system partition identified by
             the firmware.

  /v         Enables verbose mode.

  /vbcd      Enables BCD logging.

  /m         If an OS loader GUID is provided, this option merges the
             given loader object with the system template to produce a
             bootable entry. Otherwise, only global objects are merged.

  /d         Specifies that the existing default windows boot entry
             should be preserved.

  /f         Used with the /s command, specifies the firmware type of the
             target system partition. Options for <firmware> are 'UEFI',
             'BIOS', or 'ALL'.

  /addlast   Specifies that the windows boot manager firmware entry
             should be added last. The default behavior is to add it
             first.

  /bcdclean  Clean the BCD Store. By default, simply removes any duplicate
             entries in the BCD. Can be followed by 'full'. In this case,
             each entry is scanned. If the corresponding device for that entry
             does not exist, the entry is deleted.

  /p         Specifies that the windows boot manager firmware entry
             position should be preserved. If entry does not exist,
             new entry will be added in the first position.

  /c         Specifies that any existing objects described by the template
             should not be migrated.

Examples: bcdboot c:\windows /l en-us
          bcdboot c:\windows /s h:
          bcdboot c:\windows /s h: /f UEFI
          bcdboot c:\windows /m {d58d10c6-df53-11dc-878f-00064f4f4e08}
          bcdboot c:\windows /d /addlast
          bcdboot c:\windows /p

F:\sources>bcdboot W:\Windows /s S: /f UEFI
Boot files successfully created.

 

Basically Windows 11 is like a "feature update" of Windows 10 (actually designated as 21H2)...

Spoiler

1587502638_Windows1121H2.thumb.png.0e3443cf4dac8a1f1369dc6ab9c82b57.png1288854833_Windows11oldhardwaresupportedandWindowsUpdateOK.thumb.png.bcdd077bcd61d673118f5668e4fb3821.png

 

Notes

  • My >10 year old hardware does not have UEFI firmware (it is emulated by booting with Clover r5137), nor does it have Secure Boot
  • TPM2 requirement for install was bypassed with the Install.wim/DISM method linked above
  • My ATI HD 5770 graphics card is not DX12 capable but still OK in Windows 11 (using the Windows 10 DX11 driver).  Also my old printer/scanner, TV tuner card continue to work with Windows 10 drivers
  • During setup, I disabled internet to enable creation of a local account (don't want M$ spying)
  • HWID Activation works like in Windows 10.  If your machine was already activated for Windows 10 with a HWID digital license, it will automatically activate for Windows 11
  • Windows 11 update still working, even on my unsupported system

Obviously, things can change in the future (and Microsoft may incorporate further hardware checks beyond the installer) so I wouldn't recommend this as your main/only Windows installation on unsupported hardware.  If your hardware is fully supported, then go ahead...it works very much like Windows 10 but looks nicer/fresher 😀

 

 

Edited by fusion71au
corrected typo
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ammoune78
ammoune78
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Is there a link for a reliable and clean untouched version of Windows 11 insider? Since i don't have a PC with supported CPU, and i'm already years ago insider members, they only let me download Windows 10 insider. So unless i have a hardware capable in my PC for Windows 11, i can't download it from microsoft. Or if a gentle guy can upload he's clean ISO and send the link, i will be very grateful ^_^

Edited by ammoune78
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wern apfel
wern apfel
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Posted

Ok, so I did a fresh install on an Ivy Bridge system (IGPU only), of course with TPM bypassed. After the installation was complete and a search for updates, I had a fully working Windows 11. I think it downloads the Windows 10 drivers. Let's see what happens in the future. BTW. BCD still recognize Win11 as Win10.

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ammoune78
ammoune78
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I've downloaded one from the net, and can't clean install, only i was able from Windows 10 drive. Bypassed the TPM with the appraiserres.dll from windows 10 ISO, after clicking I don't have product key, the message saying can't ...... appeared. My Z87X-UD3H have secure boot enabled and it's status also enabled, the TPM 2.0 is supported, but not present. I think the processor made the message to appear or i'm missing a think?

Edited by ammoune78
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