do you do drugs?

[awesomo]

fair enough kinkster still i am and probably always will be scared

[aduffbrew]

doing drugs makes one dirty?

Things being as they are today, yep... pretty much!

 

Who benefits from the sale of elicit drugs? The whole enterprise is fueled by crime... from its production, its distribution, to its sale. Users who think they aren't hurting anyone by using are delusional! They are accomplices to a whole slue of the worst violations of human rights imaginable. I'm glad you know how to "safely" consume your drug of choice. Tell that the the mother of the drug courier who ended up with a hole in his head. Or the Colombian farmer who witnessed the rape of his wife and daughters and murder of his sons because he refused the local cartel's offer. How about whole Afghani villages being wiped out for cooperating with the central government's poppy eradication program? And don't forget those who die every day in some botched robbery so some whack-job can pay for his fix! Are any of you watching what is happening in Northern Mexico at this very moment?!!!! Unless you're participating in some free drug commune producing all your own stuff, YOU are the problem! It is obscene that you can casually discuss drug use without taking responsibility for the atrocities your use inflicts on humanity!

 

If I sound pissed, I am! I've seen first hand AND ALL TOO VIVIDLY the consequences of this {censored}.

 

I'm not some naive do-gooder. The whole idea of legislating morality is pretty asinine. There are a lot of stupid people in the world and too many governments feel it is their responsibility to save the stupid from themselves. Why can't we legislate the use of all drugs like alcohol? Legalize them EVERYWHERE.. globally. Educate the general public to the risks. Provide treatment for those who get in way over their head. Mandate product safety. It would certainly castrate, in large part, the crime syndicates and cartels behind the drug trade. We could also fund those studies desperately needed so that humanity can actually make informed decisions regarding this stuff.

 

Unfortunately, I don't see that happening any time soon. Until then, I say :censored2: the end user. They openly support human suffering on a scale most reading this thread can scarcely comprehend. They ARE dirty in every sense of the word!

[mifki]

{censored} humanity if i cant get high

[kinkster]

Things being as they are today, yep... pretty much!

 

Who benefits from the sale of elicit drugs? The whole enterprise is fueled by crime... from its production, its distribution, to its sale. Users who think they aren't hurting anyone by using are delusional! They are accomplices to a whole slue of the worst violations of human rights imaginable. I'm glad you know how to "safely" consume your drug of choice. Tell that the the mother of the drug courier who ended up with a hole in his head. Or the Colombian farmer who witnessed the rape of his wife and daughters and murder of his sons because he refused the local cartel's offer. How about whole Afghani villages being wiped out for cooperating with the central government's poppy eradication program? And don't forget those who die every day in some botched robbery so some whack-job can pay for his fix! Are any of you watching what is happening in Northern Mexico at this very moment?!!!! Unless you're participating in some free drug commune producing all your own stuff, YOU are the problem! It is obscene that you can casually discuss drug use without taking responsibility for the atrocities your use inflicts on humanity!

 

If I sound pissed, I am! I've seen first hand AND ALL TOO VIVIDLY the consequences of this {censored}.

 

I'm not some naive do-gooder. The whole idea of legislating morality is pretty asinine. There are a lot of stupid people in the world and too many governments feel it is their responsibility to save the stupid from themselves. Why can't we legislate the use of all drugs like alcohol? Legalize them EVERYWHERE.. globally. Educate the general public to the risks. Provide treatment for those who get in way over their head. Mandate product safety. It would certainly castrate, in large part, the crime syndicates and cartels behind the drug trade. We could also fund those studies desperately needed so that humanity can actually make informed decisions regarding this stuff.

 

Unfortunately, I don't see that happening any time soon. Until then, I say the end user. They openly support human suffering on a scale most reading this thread can scarcely comprehend. They ARE dirty in every sense of the word!

 

Hahaha. First of all that is not true for all drugs. Weed for example is not going to be imported from Mexico or South America. Most of it is probably grown fairly close to the end users, and from what I've heard dealers can be very nice people. This stereotype of everyone having anything to do with drugs being evil is totally false.

 

As for cocaine and such drugs, those people are going to be criminals whether its selling drugs or not. Thats how crime groups work as far as I know. And I don't know where the {censored} your getting this "rape my wife" {censored}. Please give some sources etc... I dont think you understand what motivates people to do things. Those are poor impovrished countries, crime is high. And I doubt that much violence is produced as a result of drug trade anyhow, in relation to other sources of violence.

 

And anyhow that just how the world is going to work if people aren't allowed to put what they want in their bodies. Its going to leed to ignorance about the dangers of drugs and {censored}loads of people in jail wasting away their fucking lives when they didn't do anything wrong. So fuck your misled sense of injustice.

[aduffbrew]

Hahaha. First of all that is not true for all drugs. Weed for example is not going to be imported from Mexico or South America. Most of it is probably grown fairly close to the end users, and from what I've heard dealers can be very nice people. This stereotype of everyone having anything to do with drugs being evil is totally false.

 

As for cocaine and such drugs, those people are going to be criminals whether its selling drugs or not. Thats how crime groups work as far as I know. And I don't know where the {censored} your getting this "rape my wife" {censored}. Please give some sources etc... I dont think you understand what motivates people to do things. Those are poor impovrished countries, crime is high. And I doubt that much violence is produced as a result of drug trade anyhow, in relation to other sources of violence.

 

And anyhow that just how the world is going to work if people aren't allowed to put what they want in their bodies. Its going to leed to ignorance about the dangers of drugs and {censored}loads of people in jail wasting away their fucking lives when they didn't do anything wrong. So fuck your misled sense of injustice.

I hear you on one aspect... this whole war of drugs catastrophe has totally back fired. I think people SHOULD be allowed to put what they want in their bodies. I want all categories of drugs legalized. I want the billions of dollars wasted each year on combating the drug trade diverted to drug education and research so people can make informed decisions. Ideally, you SHOULD be free to pursue your happiness anyway you choose as long as it doesn't effect others. Unfortunately, it does effect others even if it is out of sight and mind of the end user.

 

Do I believe everyone who uses, transports, or produces drugs is evil? No, of course not. As it stands, our government has turned many law abiding citizens into criminals by driving the drug trade underground. These benign drug benefactors you speak of are truly the minority. The vast majority of gain is funneled into criminal enterprise, terror and war. By legitimizing the supply chain, we could minimize these ill-effects dramatically. You're not alone. Too many casual users who support themselves and lead productive lives choose not to see the truth. They like to consider their drug of choice like alcohol or tobacco... and in an ideal world, that's exactly how I feel it should be considered... but we don't live in that ideal world. You have access to news. It probably doesn't interest you all that much... you obviously either don't believe it or haven't seen it since you doubt much violence is a result of the drug trade. I guess I don't blame you. The news sucks. It can be so boring and it's such a downer. But if you wanted to know some of the true cost of the drug trade, you could easily find out. Then again, I doubt you really do.

 

The drug prohibition started out with the best intentions. Many drugs are down right dangerous. But as many have pointed out here, not all drugs are equally so. Even legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco are dangerous. Overeating is dangerous. Lack of exercise is dangerous. My moral sensibilities dictate how I conduct my life. If I don't disturb others, I sure as hell don't want someone else butting in and telling me what to do. We all live in glass houses so the idea that we all start throwing stones is retarded.

 

I don't condone drug use... so what? I don't condone base jumping, extreme skiing, climbing Mount Everest either... in my mind, they're all potentially dangerous and stupid. But it's not my life, knock yourself out. Do what ever you want, just don't make the rest of us pay the price. Ski off the trail and cause an avalanche, you pay for the search and rescue. Base jump off of Half Dome and smack face first into the rock face, your insurance pays to have your body retrieved. If you feel the need to experiment with drugs, do it so you aren't in the position to harm someone else. That doesn't just mean not driving under the influence! It means know your supply chain by growing your own weed, producing your own stuff, whatever. Otherwise, you're making the rest of us pay... pay not only with the social and economic problems that surround such illicit trade but pay by you giving our idiot government reasons to perpetuate these self-destructive, futile, and expensive criminal drug campaigns.

 

So how about in addition to telling us how you safely consume, which for some is important, share tips on how not to rely on criminal networks in supporting your habit? Encourage others to stop being so self-centered and to do the same. If you don't care about others why do you expect them to care about you? If the de-criminalization of drugs is ever to happen, you're going to have to start showing more social responsibility because you need the support of us anti-druggies.

[apowerr]

I'm not some naive do-gooder. The whole idea of legislating morality is pretty asinine. There are a lot of stupid people in the world and too many governments feel it is their responsibility to save the stupid from themselves. Why can't we legislate the use of all drugs like alcohol? Legalize them EVERYWHERE.. globally. Educate the general public to the risks. Provide treatment for those who get in way over their head. Mandate product safety. It would certainly castrate, in large part, the crime syndicates and cartels behind the drug trade. We could also fund those studies desperately needed so that humanity can actually make informed decisions regarding this stuff.

Agreed. If you really want to lower the overall damage (hard) drugs and addictions due to people, you need to legalize every drug and provide good education and rehab etc. Putting an impoverished crack addict into jail for a few years serves no purpose except to waste money and further hurt them and their family. A much better solution is to send the impoverished crack addict to a free government run rehab or something of that sort, if they wish. The war on drugs destroys families just as bad as the addictions themselves do.

[killbot1000]

Agreed. If you really want to lower the overall damage (hard) drugs and addictions due to people, you need to legalize every drug and provide good education and rehab etc. Putting an impoverished crack addict into jail for a few years serves no purpose except to waste money and further hurt them and their family. A much better solution is to send the impoverished crack addict to a free government run rehab or something of that sort, if they wish. The war on drugs destroys families just as bad as the addictions themselves do.

 

Agreed.

 

I also agree with aduffbrew's statements regarding the legality of drugs. Very beautifully said.

 

Education will be a much sharper sword against drugs than guns, propaganda, money, and police.

[Riemann Zeta]

Psychedelics have helped me more as a person than anything else on the planet. Taking LSD was the best decision I've ever made and I really owe my life (or at least, my happiness and sense of meaning in life) to 5-HT2a agonist psychedelics.

 

 

Anyone who says drugs are evil and will only destroy one's life isn't using the right drugs.

[apowerr]

Anyone who says drugs are evil and will only destroy one's life isn't using the right drugs.

 

Or for that matter, is using the wrong ones (i.e. heroin, meth, cocaine).

[Running With Scissors]

Or for that matter, is using the wrong ones (i.e. heroin, meth, cocaine).

 

I dont consider coke a bad drug, I consider it a party drug like Es.

[toitle]

Long time forum troller here, I think I should chime in on this one though =]

 

This topic has been beat to death everywhere, there is no wrong or right answer to the "Are drugs bad" question...maybe some of my life experiences will help with the people that are on both sides of the argument.

 

I was a drug dealer for close to 15 years. In that time I dealt just about every kind of drug that's makes a good profit. Profit was my main motivation to begin with, as it is with all dealers regardless of what they say. I started with marijuana and quickly graduated to LSD. For a few years I was running up and down the west coast delivering thousands of doses per month, a few times a year I would make a run to the east coast when the market demanded. In dealing with this crowd on both ends, the customers and my dealers, I'd have to say this was the most enjoyable set of people to work with. They all pretty much had life in order, always paid what was fair. Were employed or attending school and kept the drug use at a recreational level. Dealing was casual, not a stressful environment.

You have to think that the legalities of LSD are pretty harsh to the dealer, penalties for dealing the volume that I was and my dealers were are punishable by life in prison and no getting out on good behaviour in 5 years, your in for life. So, given that fact the whole situation for manufacture to distribution should have been a complete nightmare of nerve racking deals and transport, Regardless, it was pretty casual and low stress.

 

I then started dealing E in medium amounts. This was the worst, most intense time of life. I myself was not doing much E (maybe once a month) but the people I got my quantity from were gun wielding psychos. Most were Russian and most had come from backgrounds in dealing heroin and cocaine. If you didn't pay, you were dead, End of story. My customers, on the other hand, were a joy to deal with. This is where I first ran into a different crowd of recreational drug users...the wealthy and good "members of the community".

They payed for discretion more than anything, they had fooled there neighbors, there business partners and the system and wanted to continue to do so...regardless of there drug use, they did good work and had the community at heart. Among te social elite, I dealt to a judge, two mayors of medium size oregon cities and a few police officers (and likely to a few more in that same category that I just don't know about).

 

Meth, now...I knew this was a very bad decision from the start. The money was incredible though...but there must be a reason for a 1000 percent profit margin, right?

A string of profanity doesn't exist yet that describes just how messed up the whole frickin meth community is. From what you see on the news and what you read in the papers and are taught in your classrooms....doesn't even come close to how wacked out all of these people are. Everyone is violent, I saw a 19 year old beautiful woman bash a guy in the head with a baseball bat...I suspect he didn't live too long. I found out later that she had been doing meth for just over a month, she is in prison now for what I hear was manslaughter in an unrelated car theft incident. I saw her play violin a year before, she was to attend Juliard.

 

After my brief stint of meth dealing I moved laterally over to heroin, I immediatly became addicted and started selling cocaine to support my heroin habit. Imagine sitting in an emergency room for six months. Everyone is sick and pale, depressed and bitchy. My dealers were the same gun waving psychos that I had dealt with in dealing E. I got straight, haven't even had the urge since to do it again...I can take narcotics for pain and don't feel the "fever" that some addicts have told me of. It was as if I had never done it, and I am very greatful for that..lucky indeed. I stopped dealing for 6 months or so to get my head straight....then went back to dealing marijuana.

 

For the last 10 years of my dealing I dealt to the upper and high class portions of society. Just pot, nothing else. It was all very enjoyable, profit was alright...People were a dream to deal with. Most always kept it to a recreational level (fridays, weekends). I dealt to members of local government, large business owners...all of the top 5% income. The conclusion I've drawn from dealing and having friends of the upper class is that they just have a firmer grasp of the concept of moderation on everyday life...don't max out your credit cards, spend more than your worth...eat too much junkfood or do massive amounts of drugs.

 

I've been to most of the main drug cities in the world, Amsterdam, Ibiza, Manilla...etc. When most people think about those places and the noteriety they've recieved for having relaxed drug laws is that everyone is walking around high as hell. Whether you look at that as a positive or negative attribute is your own prejudice, regardless, you are right...everyone is walking around all messed up....Americans, Americans walking around enjoying being high in a place where it doesn't bother anyone as long as you have respect towards others. Get out of hand and they treat you like {censored}, and they should.

 

But if you spend any *real* time in these places, getting to know the culture and people you can see the positive effect the relaxed laws have made on society as a whole. People are taught from a very young age about moderation and very aware of themselves and the effect they have on others. Most of these places have the lowest rates of addiction in the world. The people are just way more relaxed, everybody isn't suing everyone, murder rates are low...theft even lower...no road rage (well, Ibiza has it but they make it fun) and very good debt to income ratio. People are nice and generous for the sake of being nice and generous.

 

Could this type of mentality ever happen in America? Not in my lifetime.

 

 

In all my experience, some truths may be:

 

 

If you want to try drugs, keep it in moderation. The little voice in your head, should you listen to it will tell you when you're getting out of hand.

 

If you are against drugs then fine. Keep in mind that your prejuduce only extends to drug addicts, not drug users...you'd be surprised how many people that have garnered your respect are hittin the bong after a long day of telling you what to do.

 

They can butter up the effects of just about any drug to have some legitimate use for something other than getting high. I had a root canal, I took Vicodin....I wasn't in pain or an a$$h0le because I was in pain. Marijuana does increase the appetites of cancer patients...it helps, a close family member had cancer and it helped significantly after she started smoking pot. nicotine does nothing good, it's retarded and just kills you...everyone knows this, you know this...I know this. (Still smoking though).

 

But, that chapter in my life is long over. I don't deal anything. I do drugs recreationally. I have a good job with a boatload of responsibilty. What can I say, I met a cool chick and I don't want to do anything to risk not being with her =]

 

-S

[Wayfarer247]

interesting topic. I'm too young to really have a say in anything worth while, but I don't want to start drugs, don't want to get involved in all that. I don't think the benefits outweigh the reward. I like my life, so I don't want to do anything that will endanger it. However, I do my best to judge people and not what drugs they do.

[AubieTiger]

Herb whenever I can indulge now that I'm pretty much safe from any chance at a random DT. Smoked heavy back in college. Compared to Klonopin, Paxil or whatever big pharma churns out its 100x better for when I'm down.

[djet]

Klonopin? Is that bad? Cause I think my mom is on it.....

[Descalzo]

If you want to try drugs, keep it in moderation. The little voice in your head, should you listen to it will tell you when you're getting out of hand.

I thought that was part of the point of those types of drugs: they drown out that little voice in your head.

[killbot1000]

Interesting that you seem to be replying to my post without reading it. I said that Alcohol is as bad as any other drug. Exactly how does that mean I'm "relying on tradition to tell me what's right and wrong?" it's not society telling me that driving drunk is bad. It's empirical data. I think the legal BAC level of .08% is way too high for driving. I think Sweden's .02% is much more reasonable. If people want to drink themselves stupid in their own homes, that's fine with me (as long as they don't hurt anyone in their home - I have a friend who has a bad back because her drunk mother hit her with a chair when she tried to separate her from her drunk father). Just don't do it where you could end up hurting someone else.

I believe I said "(not you, just people in general)" I thought that was an important point to make.

Long time forum troller here, I think I should chime in on this one though =]This topic has been beat to death everywhere, there is no wrong or right answer to the "Are drugs bad" question...maybe some of my life experiences will help with the people that are on both sides of the argument. I was a drug dealer for close to 15 years. In that time I dealt just about every kind of drug that's makes a good profit. Profit was my main motivation to begin with, as it is with all dealers regardless of what they say. I started with marijuana and quickly graduated to LSD. For a few years I was running up and down the west coast delivering thousands of doses per month, a few times a year I would make a run to the east coast when the market demanded. In dealing with this crowd on both ends, the customers and my dealers, I'd have to say this was the most enjoyable set of people to work with. They all pretty much had life in order, always paid what was fair. Were employed or attending school and kept the drug use at a recreational level. Dealing was casual, not a stressful environment. You have to think that the legalities of LSD are pretty harsh to the dealer, penalties for dealing the volume that I was and my dealers were are punishable by life in prison and no getting out on good behaviour in 5 years, your in for life. So, given that fact the whole situation for manufacture to distribution should have been a complete nightmare of nerve racking deals and transport, Regardless, it was pretty casual and low stress.I then started dealing E in medium amounts. This was the worst, most intense time of life. I myself was not doing much E (maybe once a month) but the people I got my quantity from were gun wielding psychos. Most were Russian and most had come from backgrounds in dealing heroin and cocaine. If you didn't pay, you were dead, End of story. My customers, on the other hand, were a joy to deal with. This is where I first ran into a different crowd of recreational drug users...the wealthy and good "members of the community".They payed for discretion more than anything, they had fooled there neighbors, there business partners and the system and wanted to continue to do so...regardless of there drug use, they did good work and had the community at heart. Among te social elite, I dealt to a judge, two mayors of medium size oregon cities and a few police officers (and likely to a few more in that same category that I just don't know about).Meth, now...I knew this was a very bad decision from the start. The money was incredible though...but there must be a reason for a 1000 percent profit margin, right?A string of profanity doesn't exist yet that describes just how messed up the whole frickin meth community is. From what you see on the news and what you read in the papers and are taught in your classrooms....doesn't even come close to how wacked out all of these people are. Everyone is violent, I saw a 19 year old beautiful woman bash a guy in the head with a baseball bat...I suspect he didn't live too long. I found out later that she had been doing meth for just over a month, she is in prison now for what I hear was manslaughter in an unrelated car theft incident. I saw her play violin a year before, she was to attend Juliard.After my brief stint of meth dealing I moved laterally over to heroin, I immediatly became addicted and started selling cocaine to support my heroin habit. Imagine sitting in an emergency room for six months. Everyone is sick and pale, depressed and bitchy. My dealers were the same gun waving psychos that I had dealt with in dealing E. I got straight, haven't even had the urge since to do it again...I can take narcotics for pain and don't feel the "fever" that some addicts have told me of. It was as if I had never done it, and I am very greatful for that..lucky indeed. I stopped dealing for 6 months or so to get my head straight....then went back to dealing marijuana.For the last 10 years of my dealing I dealt to the upper and high class portions of society. Just pot, nothing else. It was all very enjoyable, profit was alright...People were a dream to deal with. Most always kept it to a recreational level (fridays, weekends). I dealt to members of local government, large business owners...all of the top 5% income. The conclusion I've drawn from dealing and having friends of the upper class is that they just have a firmer grasp of the concept of moderation on everyday life...don't max out your credit cards, spend more than your worth...eat too much junkfood or do massive amounts of drugs. I've been to most of the main drug cities in the world, Amsterdam, Ibiza, Manilla...etc. When most people think about those places and the noteriety they've recieved for having relaxed drug laws is that everyone is walking around high as hell. Whether you look at that as a positive or negative attribute is your own prejudice, regardless, you are right...everyone is walking around all messed up....Americans, Americans walking around enjoying being high in a place where it doesn't bother anyone as long as you have respect towards others. Get out of hand and they treat you like {censored}, and they should.But if you spend any *real* time in these places, getting to know the culture and people you can see the positive effect the relaxed laws have made on society as a whole. People are taught from a very young age about moderation and very aware of themselves and the effect they have on others. Most of these places have the lowest rates of addiction in the world. The people are just way more relaxed, everybody isn't suing everyone, murder rates are low...theft even lower...no road rage (well, Ibiza has it but they make it fun) and very good debt to income ratio. People are nice and generous for the sake of being nice and generous.Could this type of mentality ever happen in America? Not in my lifetime.In all my experience, some truths may be:If you want to try drugs, keep it in moderation. The little voice in your head, should you listen to it will tell you when you're getting out of hand.If you are against drugs then fine. Keep in mind that your prejuduce only extends to drug addicts, not drug users...you'd be surprised how many people that have garnered your respect are hittin the bong after a long day of telling you what to do.They can butter up the effects of just about any drug to have some legitimate use for something other than getting high. I had a root canal, I took Vicodin....I wasn't in pain or an a$$h0le because I was in pain. Marijuana does increase the appetites of cancer patients...it helps, a close family member had cancer and it helped significantly after she started smoking pot. nicotine does nothing good, it's retarded and just kills you...everyone knows this, you know this...I know this. (Still smoking though).But, that chapter in my life is long over. I don't deal anything. I do drugs recreationally. I have a good job with a boatload of responsibilty. What can I say, I met a cool chick and I don't want to do anything to risk not being with her =]-S

Great post man!