bofors Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) I expect this to be Apples worst laptop. Hmm... then it would have to suck worse than the PowerBook 5300: The 5300-series were the first PowerPC PowerBooks. Introduced with much fanfare, they were the most anticipated 'Books since the 500-series. Unfortunately, moderate performance, bland styling, and quality-control problems quickly blemished their reputation, and sales of PowerBooks tanked for the first time ever.http://www.powerbookcentral.com/reviews/5300review.shtml The PowerBook 5300 was Apple's first PowerBook based on a PowerPC CPU. Due to problems with the original (flaming) LithIon battery, plastic chipping from the case, and poor performance (among other things), it earns the dubious label of Road Apple. (It was also the butt of a lot of jokes.)http://www.lowendmac.com/pb2/5300.shtml While it is interesting to note that the 5300 was the first laptop of the 68K -> PPC transition, I really doubt the Rev. A Core Duo MacBook Pro will suck that bad (if it all). Edited January 12, 2006 by bofors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJägermeister Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hey, thanks for the information. But I guess this raises two questions: (1) There is no RAID controller chip on any of these motherboards, right? OS X handles the RAID itself, right? So why would "soft" RAID functionality needs drivers? I mean, we know the SATA controllers work, so what is the problem with RAID? Have you or do you know somebody who has actually tried SATA RAID on OSx86? (2) I just looked through both Adaptec's and 3ware's RAID controllers and it looks like they all require drivers, so what am I missing here? Are there really some driverless hardware RAID controller cards that would work on OSx86 or what? 1) These controlers have only a bios, the RAID functionality is done by software in the OS, thatś the reason why it don't work in OSX86. Some guys had tried to install OSX86 on a soft raid array (i915 chipset), the installer don't found any HD. 2) The driver here is just like a driver for your SATA controler (without RAID). The RAID functionality is done by the hardware. For 3ware I don't know if it work but a adaptec SCSI controler was working in 10.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) 1) These controlers have only a bios, the RAID functionality is done by software in the OS, that? the reason why it don't work in OSX86. Some guys had tried to install OSX86 on a soft raid array (i915 chipset), the installer don't found any HD.2) The driver here is just like a driver for your SATA controler (without RAID). The RAID functionality is done by the hardware. For 3ware I don't know if it work but a adaptec SCSI controler was working in 10.4.1 Thanks again, I think that I may just be trying this myself in the near future and will be posting my results. Even if I fail to setup RAID, I still should get some more speed by setting my swap (virtual memory) parition on a seperate drive. One the great things about building your own OSx86 box is that you can stick so many more drives in it, compared with only the two that Apple permits in PowerMacs. Given that WD Raptors are only about $100 (36 MB) now, I would really love to set up a bunch of them in an internal striped RAID for some serious speed. Edited January 12, 2006 by bofors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoyo Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Would you like to speak a bit more about array storage? I'm considering a 500GB array for my photos and would like to have it connected to my PowerBook.What raid setup do you recommend for someone using a PowerBook (and soon, MBP)? For your photo work you don't need any array, you can get a big USB 2.0 or FW 400 hard drive. That's enough. An array would be necessary to edit video content at high resolution, higher than DV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungi79 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Second, reports are coming in that it is unable to even play full screen videos without dropping frames.We all know this is still not ready for prime time. It is fairly obvious. Apple really needs to educate people as to what will and will not run on this. We know most stuff will not work. Where did you read this? URL? The only people so far that has access to it are ppl at WWDC right? Lastly, Apple needs to convince people it is going to work, and be a better alternative to the G4. How many years have we heard how much better the PPC processors were. Yes, it was a lot of B.S., but still, their marketing did just do a sudden 180, there are a lot of PPC guys are still ticked they even switched. They need restore/build customers faith, which I doubt this laptop can do. Scary part, is what if it backfires. Apple is stuck. Most professionals who buy these are not 'ppc guys', they just want a machine that works faster so they can be more efficient. The number of actual 'ppc guys' or people that cares about what cpu architecture goes into the mac are few and far between in the existing mac demographic. I think they haven't lost any customer faith and i think the new macbook will sell as quickly as apple can make them. I mean, dual core machine with extras like isight at the same price? No customer faith lost here! Sure, I would love an X86 Apple notebook, but if I were to buy a new Apple laptop today, it sure as hell would not be that P.O.S. It is unproven, un-tested, and we know it is not all that fast. I woudl MUCH rather buy a cheap Dell and put OSX on it. Cheap, yes, but capable of running XP on it right now. Right now, the ONLY drawback is a lack of support from Apple. Big deal, how far have we gotten already? That argument makes no sense. You're complaining about 1st rev hardware being unproven and untested? Thanks for pointing that out captain obvious! There is always going to be 1st rev hardware, but before they put it out to the general public they will QC it and do everything possible to make sure it works. Not that fast? The laptop is based on Yonah, the fastest X86 laptop chip there is! I think your whole argument boils down to you not being able to afford the macbook and would rather hack around to get it working on a dell. Well, if that's so then i don't think you're an apple customer in the first place. I am pleased also with how far this project has gone, but if you want to buy a new machine to run an OS that would likely have no driver support, no unibin software support (think the unibin changed with 10.4.4) and no official update, be my guest. It's your money. I think a better choice would be to hold off the purchase until the mac mini comes out. 499 with core duo solo would be quite competitive with lower end dell offerings, and will be able to boot vista and osx at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 What is the story with people reporting that the Core Duo Macs are using Intel's 945 chipset? Can anyone confirm or deny this? Based on what information Intel could give us prior to press time, we believe all the new Macs use a standard 945 chipset. The only other potential candidate is the 975, which is typically used in Intel's Extreme Edition PCs, which is one of Intel's exclusive licensing brands. As is the case with Centrino and Viiv, the new Macs don't qualify for these umbrella brands. http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/01/12/how_diff...tel-based_macs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrana Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Its the only chipset for Yonah, that's why. 975 doesn't have a mobile version...945PM also uses less watts than the normal 945P (and no 975xm or whatever is available). No way they got a completely custom chip, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I see, thanks Cyrana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkelley Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 quick hands-on review of the macbook from from macsonly.com (somewhere intheir archive). [1/11] Hands-On Report--Apple's New MacBook Pro: Following Steve Jobs' keynote address, we hurried to Apple's booth on the Macworld Expo show floor in Moscone South. Our immediate objective was to try out the new 15.4" MacBook Pro with a dual-core Intel CPU inside. First, let me correct an incorrect statement in our keynote report. The PowerBook G4's are not gone but are still offered, at least for now. An Apple employee told us that they thought the 15" PowerBook G4 would be withdrawn once the inventory is sold out, i.e. the MacBook Pro would soon replace it. They were unaware of plans for the 12" and 17" models. Of course, they wouldn't tell us if they knew or a bolt of lightning would likely have zapped them as they spoke.... The MacBook Pro looks almost exactly like a PowerBook G4, the same general form factor and aluminum material and color. Note the camera in the top bezel between the two latches--the MacBook Pro has two latches like the 17" PowerBook G4. The infrared port for taking commands from the new Apple Remote is by the latch bar in the front of the bottom case. The MacBook Pro is slightly wider than the current 15" PowerBook G4, 14.1" vs 13.7", but the same depth, despite the camera, and the same weight at 5.6 lbs. However, the screen is 15.4" rather than 15.2" and 1440x900 pixels rather than 1440x960 so with the lower aspect ratio it really looks more like a 17" PowerBook G4. The screen inherits the balancing assist mechanism of the 17" PowerBook G4 so tilting it is much smoother and easier than the 15" model. The screen is also very bright, some 67% brighter like the Cinema Displays according to Steve Jobs, and it looks it to us. There's no modem. It's old technology so just like the 3.5" floppy drive, its gone. If you think you are going to get stuck staying at a no-tell motel in nowheresville without broadband, you will need an external USB modem and Apple makes one. There's no FireWire 800 port. We are not sure why. It seems to us that fast FireWire could have been the future for high-speed data transfer. However, with Apple abandoning it, it looks like it's dead. While there's no s-video port, s-video is available through the DVI port with an Apple video adapter. There's a new ExpressCard 34 slot that replaces the standard PCMCIA slot. According to an Apple employee, this is the latest technology that provides higher bandwidth. While it's not backward compatible, companies are expected to update their technology rapidly. But if you depend on a wireless cellphone network card in a PCMCIA slot, you will probably want to wait for the new cards to come out before getting a MacBook Pro. Finally hardwarewise, the MacBook Pro comes with a lithium-polymer battery, like those used in iPods, and an 85-watt AC/DC power adapter. It will be interesting to see how battery life holds up. The new AC/DC adapter is 20 watts higher than the previous one--will it recharge faster or does the lithium-polymer battery need it? There is a small green light on the magnetic connector rather than a ring around the pin. We believe the green light will turn amber when the MacBook Pro is charging. The bottoms of the MacBook Pros we felt were very warm, actually bordering on hot. The tops were fairly warm as well. Both sides were much hotter than those on our 867MHz 12" PowerBook G4. Look out bare-skinned laps. The MacBook Pros on display were the top end 1.83GHz dual-core models. They were all generously populated with 2GB of RAM. Our perception from launching and running applications is that they are fast, very fast. We tried Adobe Photoshop and it ran fine in Rosetta as did Microsoft Excel. Using the new Apple Remote, calling up Front Row and moving among the categories of iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD and iMovie was very fast and fluid. In summary, our impression is that the MacBook Pro is a definite winner. With it, Apple has seized the laptop cutting edge at reasonable $1,999 and $2,499 price points. We are pleased that Apple kept the thin aluminum form factor. It is beautiful and still stands out among all laptops. If you need a new laptop and are a heavy user of cellphone wireless internet cards, you might want to wait for them to catch up to the new ExpressCard 34 technology but otherwise, we see no reason to hold off. Applications seem to run fine on Rosetta and Apple's pro applications will be Intel native shortly after the MacBook Pro begins shipping. No one could answer the question if the MacBook Pro would boot off Windows XP but we expect someone to try it soon. [bill Fox] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbz Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 First off, 4 times faster, bull___ , take a look at some benchmarks by people here. It is definately not 4 times faster. Granted this is 10.4.4, but, how much increase have awe seen so far from previous builds? Not much. Right, I've seen a lot of people here comparing their benchmarks to the Macbook Pro...sure... Second, reports are coming in that it is unable to even play full screen videos without dropping frames.We all know this is still not ready for prime time. It is fairly obvious. Apple really needs to educate people as to what will and will not run on this. We know most stuff will not work. says you! how do you know, where is your proof? DKelley just posted a review right before this very post, and i don't see anything about it being slow at all...they say it is very fast, actually. Lastly, Apple needs to convince people it is going to work, and be a better alternative to the G4. How many years have we heard how much better the PPC processors were. Yes, it was a lot of B.S., but still, their marketing did just do a sudden 180, there are a lot of PPC guys are still ticked they even switched. They need restore/build customers faith, which I doubt this laptop can do. Scary part, is what if it backfires. Apple is stuck. What?Apple is making the switch flawlessly from a consumer perspective. The products look similar to avoid confusion, and future apps will run no matter which platform you're on. This IS an improvement, though, and the speed of the macbook pro IS faster than the current powerbooks, and as the review above says, PPC apps run very quickly as well. To top it all off, future apps will be for both platforms. I could go out right now and buy a powerbook g4, be very happy with it, and keep it as long as i keep all my other computers: 3-4 years. (granted, i wouldn't need it for things like video editing, but it would work just fine, and it would have the same array of software as a macbook.) Overall, this is being treated as it should be treated: an upgrade from our current notebooks, the FIRST upgrade to x86 (which is why the other lines still exist right now), and yet this is simply another great mac notebook in the eyes of consumers. Seriously, ignore the cost, ignore the fact that it is cool and trendy, and step back and look at the bgger picture. LOL! yeah, basically, forget how great it is people, sheepdog wants to win an argument! Your getting A LOT for 2000$ with the base model. I bought my dv4040 for that price beginning of this past summer and it doesn't have ati graphics, a camera, and it didn't come with mac os, either. I think this is a great start for the transition in the laptop area. The only flaw, in my opinion, (or at least that bothers me) is the fact that it got warm. Still, i dont think they mentioned the energy savings. Have the processors scale their power and shut off one when unneeded when plugged in, and you have power-on-demand, no different than "no energy savings", really. Who knows if this was the case for the model they saw? If I hadn't bought my laptop, i would go get this as soon as i saw it in stores. Since it's too late, my next laptop will be this one. Well, it's successor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrana Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 At MWSF they demonstrated 3 simultaneous 1080P streams... so much for being slow and dropping frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 (edited) Its the only chipset for Yonah, that's why. 975 doesn't have a mobile version...945PM also uses less watts than the normal 945P (and no 975xm or whatever is available). No way they got a completely custom chip, in my opinion. How about a special southbridge? OS X' s System Profiler says the Core Duo iMac is using a "ICH7-M" for SATA: http://appleintelfaq.com/imac/system_profiler.html Edited January 15, 2006 by bofors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrana Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 (edited) That's just the lower power version of ICH7, isn't it? I think it is part of the 945PM package. http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/307013.htm Edited January 15, 2006 by cyrana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Close enough, "M" certainly does not stand for Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forcer Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 g945p/gm is back-compatibile with 945p/g. Only diff is that M chipset consumes less nrgy than desktop 945's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrana Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 http://wifinetnews.com/archives/006212.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepdog43 Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Right, I've seen a lot of people here comparing their benchmarks to the Macbook Pro...sure...says you! how do you know, where is your proof? DKelley just posted a review right before this very post, and i don't see anything about it being slow at all...they say it is very fast, actually. What?Apple is making the switch flawlessly from a consumer perspective. The products look similar to avoid confusion, and future apps will run no matter which platform you're on. This IS an improvement, though, and the speed of the macbook pro IS faster than the current powerbooks, and as the review above says, PPC apps run very quickly as well. To top it all off, future apps will be for both platforms. I could go out right now and buy a powerbook g4, be very happy with it, and keep it as long as i keep all my other computers: 3-4 years. (granted, i wouldn't need it for things like video editing, but it would work just fine, and it would have the same array of software as a macbook.) Overall, this is being treated as it should be treated: an upgrade from our current notebooks, the FIRST upgrade to x86 (which is why the other lines still exist right now), and yet this is simply another great mac notebook in the eyes of consumers. LOL! yeah, basically, forget how great it is people, sheepdog wants to win an argument! Your getting A LOT for 2000$ with the base model. I bought my dv4040 for that price beginning of this past summer and it doesn't have ati graphics, a camera, and it didn't come with mac os, either. I think this is a great start for the transition in the laptop area. The only flaw, in my opinion, (or at least that bothers me) is the fact that it got warm. Still, i dont think they mentioned the energy savings. Have the processors scale their power and shut off one when unneeded when plugged in, and you have power-on-demand, no different than "no energy savings", really. Who knows if this was the case for the model they saw? If I hadn't bought my laptop, i would go get this as soon as i saw it in stores. Since it's too late, my next laptop will be this one. Well, it's successor! From a customer standpoint it is winning people, yes, but it has not even reached their hands. Phantom (the comsole)also was winning people, however they have yet to even release a product. It is easy to win them on paper or flashy looking pictures. Flawless is far easier when very few have used it. The Yonah processor has NOT been proven to be the fastest thing since sliced bread. AMD is still ahead in this game. Sorry guys. Here is one article that mentions the frame rate issue. Ia m not going to go digging for more. http://www.unsanity.org/archives/000445.php I am not saying the laptop is junk, I am saying, stop making out to be the next coming of jesus. People are acting like this is the best thing ever, and seem disapointed they recently bought a G4. If you want good reliable and stable Mac, you may want to settle for an older G4, which we know works. And I have to make a correction, Apple has apparently put Dual layer in, but the reviews I saw, said the demo did not. For the record, I intend to buy a new Mac, when they decide to make/update the rest of the laptops. I need a small 12 or 13in screen, not a 15. Some of you need to get off the Mac high horse. If you ever expect Mac to become a major player (right now, it is not compared to Windows), you guys really need to get over yourselves and the attitude of "well your not a Mac customer", and take a look at the computer industry as a whole. You guys are as bad as religion. Other than the OS, there is no longer anything special about MAc. Get over it. I am not trying to "win" an argument, I am trying to keep some people from making a mistake by beleiving the hype, and trust there is FAR too much hype on this laptop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pion Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Video: 15 minutes with the MacBook Pro http://theory.isthereason.com/?p=650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 (edited) What is the story with Dual Channel memory on the new Core Duo Macs? Intel® Flex Memory Technology - Gives users a more flexible memory upgrade option by allowing different memory sizes to be installed while maintaining dual-channel mode/performance. I was presuming that the new Core Dual Macs were single channel on the basis that they ship with only a single RAM module. Now, given that this "Intel® Flex Memory Technology" is standard on the 945G/P chipsets, I am thinking that the Core Dual Macs should have it even though these Yonah's are 32-bit. Of course, you would have to put in a second RAM module to get. This AnandTech article (albeit dated) seems to confirm my suspicions about the new Macs actually supporting dual channel DDR2: There are four new mobile chipsets for the new Yonah based Pentium M CPUs. The two high performance chipsets are the 945PM and the 945GM, the difference being that the 945GM adds the Intel's GMA 950 (Graphic Media Accelerator). These two chipsets have a PCIe x16 connection, and support an FSB of 533/667MHz and up to 4GB of 533/667 dual channel DDR2 RAM. These chipsets will be released in January 2006. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2554 Here is more recent article that appear to confirm it: Nor does the Yamato platform stop with the addition of dual-core processing -- it spices up performance with a dual-channel DDR-2 memory controller. Total memory bandwidth is estimated at up to 10.7GB/sec, which roughly translates to dual-channel DDR-2/667 and matches the Intel Yonah platform, which will support 533MHz or 667MHz DDR-2 memory in a dual-channel configuration.http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecen...reports/6119/1/ Finally, the Yonah-based Dell Inspiron E1705 laptop is clearly advertised as having dual-channel DDR2: http://dealnews.com/deals/Loaded-Dell-Insp...ed-/106210.html This must be the first time I have seem Apple totally drop the ball on promoting an important feature, especially on the MacBook Pro. Edited January 15, 2006 by bofors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrana Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 (edited) You know, honestly: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2725 Does this guy even have a clue? Again, there is a 1lb difference between the Acer and Apple. If I wanted to carry more around, I agree the Acer is a better deal (also only runs Windows). You'd think a NOTEBOOK REVIEW site would notice the weight differences... LOL. (The review isn't really that bad, I just think you have to expect some cutbacks when you make a notebook smaller than another.) Edited January 17, 2006 by cyrana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louse76 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I'd like to add that it's still in "beta" stage, so no final. But nevertheless, this casual remark about Quark must be quite embarrassing for the Adobe folks who insisted on the last keynote on which the switch was announced that they will be among the very first third-party developers to get their apps out as unibins. Is this positive mentioning of Quark Apple's reaction to Adobe's nasty move of publishing an early Lightroom beta in order to undercut sales of Aperture? ;-) Btw, the Apple store is back up. Buy! Any way of getting Quark beta? Is it possible to get in on the beta at this point? I suppose there aren't all that many people out there with the correct hardware to try it out... It's not available via other ways which we are not to speak about... is it? It just happens to be one of the main reasons why I'm going down this road... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrana Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Just a note that all models have been speedbumped and there is a new 2.16GHz option. It even ships in just 1-3 days as a BTO option. http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/feb/14macbookpro.html (yes, cross posted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrana Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straylight Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 well, the new laptops are in im pretty psyched, Especially since my final interview for the local apple store is Wednesday. with any luck ill be playing with this thing by thursday morning. I'm interested to see these run firsthand.. I know ill be diapointed, i mean Apple has spent millions of dollars making the intel transition seamless... so what should i expect.... Anyone know that closest other laptop companies are cominf to selling a macbook pro without the TPM chip? (and the OS obviously...).. -stray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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