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Psystar counter-sues Apple for anti-competitive business practices


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Source (CNET)

PALO ALTO, Calif.--Mac clone maker Psystar plans to file its answer to Apple's copyright infringement lawsuit Tuesday as well as a countersuit of its own, alleging that Apple engages in anticompetitive business practices. Miami-based Psystar, owned by Rudy Pedraza, will sue Apple under two federal laws designed to discourage monopolies and cartels, the Sherman Antitrust Act and the Clayton Antitrust Act, saying Apple's tying of the Mac OS to Apple-labeled hardware is "an anticompetitive restrain of trade," according to attorney Colby Springer of antitrust specialists Carr & Ferrell. Psystar is requesting that the court find Apple's EULA void, and is asking for unspecified damages.

 

Springer said his firm has not filed any suits with the Federal Trade Commission or any other government agencies.

 

The answer and countersuit will be filed Tuesday afternoon in U.S. District Court for Northern California.

 

Pedraza attended a press conference his lawyers called to present how Psystar will defend its its OpenComputer Mac clone, which has been for sale online since April.

 

Psystar's attorneys are calling Apple's allegations of Psystar's copyright infringement "misinformed and mischaracterized." Psystar argues that its OpenComputer product is shipped with a fully licensed, unmodified copy of Mac OS X, and that the company has simply "leveraged open source-licensed code including Apple's OS" to enable a PC to run the Mac operating system.

 

Pedraza says he wants to make Apple's Mac OS "more accessible" by offering it on less expensive hardware than Apple.

 

"My goal is to provide an alternative, not to free the Mac OS," said Pedraza. "What we want to do is to provide an alternative, an option...It's not that people don't want to use Mac OS, many people are open to the idea, but they're not used to spending an exorbitant amount of money on something that is essentially generic hardware."

 

Apple will have 30 days to respond to Pystar's counter claim, and so far has declined to comment on the case.

 

Other legal experts say Psystar faces a tough legal challenge in proving Apple has engaged in antitrust behavior by loading its software on its own hardware and thereby allegedly harming consumers and competitors. Psystar's ability to prevail on the issue of having the latitude to load Apple's OS on its own hardware, given it has a licensing agreement with the company, may prove an easier road to hoe, legal experts note.

 

A newcomer to the PC scene, Psystar caused a stir when it first went online selling white box Macs earlier this year. The site went down hours after it opened for business because the company was overwhelmed with orders for the OpenComputer, originally called the OpenMac, which was then changed to its current name. And the site went down several more times as its payment-processing company pulled its services from the Psystar site. Psystar managed to stay shrouded in a bit of mystery for a while, until intrepid gadget blog readers joined the press in fleshing out some details about the company.

 

Psystar eventually got back online with a new payment-processing service, and it continues to take orders for the OpenComputer and OpenPro Computer. When Apple finally did file suit against Psystar in July, it surprised nearly no one--except perhaps Pedraza. He said he had no contact with Apple before legal papers were filed against his company. Customarily, there is some sort of communication between companies before lawsuits are filed.

 

For now, Pedraza says it will be "business as usual" at company headquarters. Though he said there was a "slight" downward dip in sales once Apple filed its suit, he plans to go ahead with making servers, and soon, a mobile product, which he said will be "like a notebook." But he refused to offer more detail.

 

More to come...

 

CNET News' Dawn Kawamoto contributed to this story.

Pretty big news for OSx86 perhaps as an outcome of this we will be fully 'legal' and not in violation of Apple's restrictive EULA. Rudy Pedraza is right on the money when he claims that people are open towards using OS 10, but don't want to pay Apple's ridiculous price premiums on normal (and often out of date) hardware. Personally I'm going to have to side with Psystar on this one as I feel that Apple's current EULA for Mac OS 10 is absurd: You pay $125 for software, and then can only install it on certain machines?

 

How do you guys think?


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Steve paid Xerox for the rights to their development.

 

 

Doesn't the story include some sort or misrepresentation on Steve's part, in order to convince them to sell low?

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Doesn't the story include some sort or misrepresentation on Steve's part, in order to convince them to sell low?

No, not at all. Please learn the facts of the matter. Xerox practically begged Steve not to buy it. They were 110% convinced that it was worthless and that when Steve found out, that it would turn their business relationship with Apple against them. It was Steve Jobs who had the insight to know that their invention could be used successfully. Apple was in the right place at the right time, and I'm betting that if Bill Gates were there he'd be bidding on it also. Instead Microsoft stole it from Apple who legitimately owned it :(

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Instead Microsoft stole it from Apple who legitimately owned it :(

 

Just think, he could have just hacked it and ran it on his Dell. At least he paid them Apple stock in exchange for the rights to develop the idea further.

 

=)

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But it still sucks that gates was yet not good enough to ever dev his own {censored} nor good enough biz guy to do what jobs did so he just steals it alike a punk.

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This is only posting what pystar assumed would come outta their accusations and lawsuite there is not tying there is no monopoly its there own product ... they need to stop selling osx seperate and really tie it intot he make and make OS and machine trully one like you know how 360 and ps3 does ... and then ppl can stfu.

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^^ Someone was a little irate while posting :)

 

Bit of a Bill Gates complex? hehe

 

As for the topic, I think the latest news proves that Apple know they are on shaky ground here, else they would have crushed psystar in court. Whether we will see OSX on ROM, I am not sure. I know one of the predecessors used ROM quite heavily (GEM/AtariOS) but in todays market I cannot see it being viable. Maybe a small amount of ROM for core functions but at least 95% of the OS would need to be kept on disk these days.

 

I find it rather intriguing that this will potentially be settled out of court. One way or another, this could be a pivotal point in Apples history.

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@ Shaithis ... Seriously what are you on.... apple ahs done this with every case ever nothing to do with they oooo know there not right ... as most people that do not have the ability for abstract thought here would think... but lets see lets say they didnt continue it in court and one long drawn out pointless battle that would make every cover in every city catch it.... hmm weather apple is right or wrong that may put a damper on their sales for a very long time.....them doing this is just them doing good PR.... Maxintosh your turn.

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Psystar is now installing Blu-ray players, which Jobs called "a bag of hurt." I tend to think that Psystar has a point about Apple failing to deliver a product which consumers want (A tower that runs OS X for a sane amount of money). I suppose you could have a Blu-ray player Mac if you spent a couple grand on a Mac Pro (which is the only easily upgradable Mac) and then bought an aftermarket blu-ray player. Back in the day I had a Starmax. It was kind of a piece of {censored}, but it let me use the Apple OS without paying insane prices for inferior hardware. Oh, and it was a tower so I could swap out drives and install a SCSI card easily.

 

I guess the hipster image Apple has today is not really compatible with the tinkerer or computer enthusiast. If it just works (albeit how Apple chooses), then we are forced to accept the fact that is only how it works. Of course we don't and that's why we're here.

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Psystar is now installing Blu-ray players, which Jobs called "a bag of hurt." I tend to think that Psystar has a point about Apple failing to deliver a product which consumers want (A tower that runs OS X for a sane amount of money). I suppose you could have a Blu-ray player Mac if you spent a couple grand on a Mac Pro (which is the only easily upgradable Mac) and then bought an aftermarket blu-ray player. Back in the day I had a Starmax. It was kind of a piece of {censored}, but it let me use the Apple OS without paying insane prices for inferior hardware. Oh, and it was a tower so I could swap out drives and install a SCSI card easily.

 

I guess the hipster image Apple has today is not really compatible with the tinkerer or computer enthusiast. If it just works (albeit how Apple chooses), then we are forced to accept the fact that is only how it works. Of course we don't and that's why we're here.

 

Jus saw what you were talking about on Engadget

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Finally time for more ranting i had lost hope....... I call BS ... inferior hardware my ass its all custom hardware made for apple not somethign you get from pisstar ... their gigabyte mb and intel cpu the onlythings worth anything.

 

the rest pry some {censored} from china and its worht the 1k difference for offical support and so on and not to mention ...A HACKINTOSH Will never work as well as supported hardware!!!

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A HACKINTOSH Will never work as well as supported hardware!

 

ROFL

 

 

Then you don t know what a hackintosh really is ....

 

My hackintosh works better than my imac for an inferior configuration !

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ROFL

Then you don t know what a hackintosh really is ....

 

My hackintosh works better than my imac for an inferior configuration !

 

I doubt that. You're likely finding anecdotal evidence to support what you want to hear anyway. If it's really an inferior configuration then you haven't taken into consideration what's loading on the iMac, how long it's been installed, etc. Things that will slow a machine down.

 

Try using Disk Utility to resize your partition on the fly, then install the latest 10.6 beta. Wow, sure runs nice. Oh, you can't do that on your Crapintosh?

 

I got a hack too, it's fun, but I don't pretend with delusional eyes that it's better than my Mac, because my Mac was designed to be a Mac. My Lenovo runs Leo decent, but I'd never give it to anyone to use an anything but a project. Hell, you can't even safely run Software Update, even set up as vanilla kernel. (You can't just run it, it will kill the machine.) My friends are better off running Windows on the thing than a hacked OS X. Having to tinker with kexts to get updates to stick is for geeks. And that's the kind of image Apple doesn't want their product to have.

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how can that company sue apple for allowing running their os on their own computers?! this guy, pedarza or whatever is nuts!

hahaha

why can't i run xp on my cellphone?! i would like to, i think i will sue microsoft for anticompetivie monopoly,

hahahaha

they will never win this

thats my opinion on this:D

thanks

 

and why the hell asus net4switch runs only on asus branded computers?! i will sue them as well!!!

John The Geek:

very well said. i fully agree with you!

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John the geek .. .well put again... as for myself dont see myself as a geek .... im too professional for that and my time worth more to me then jimmy rigging stuff together that may never work the way i want it.........

 

 

@tomazzzi ..... i know exactly what one is while i share and intrest to the level of i just wanted to see if it worked .... ihave built a pc just for a hack with all the intended hard ware and still ran like {censored}...... my g4 mac mini runs more stable then that {censored}

 

suggestion get a clue and actual facts to support it not just some disalusion .. to support your comi ways that wants to believee coorprate america has no right to their copywrtites

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John the geek .. .well put again... as for myself dont see myself as a geek .... im too professional for that and my time worth more to me then jimmy rigging stuff together that may never work the way i want it.........

 

 

@tomazzzi ..... i know exactly what one is while i share and intrest to the level of i just wanted to see if it worked .... ihave built a pc just for a hack with all the intended hard ware and still ran like {censored}...... my g4 mac mini runs more stable then that {censored}

 

suggestion get a clue and actual facts to support it not just some disalusion .. to support your comi ways that wants to believee coorprate america has no right to their copywrtites

 

:(:D:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

 

Too professional, really ?

 

Coming from someone who can't put together a complete sentence or even spell, that's got to be the funniest {censored} I've read in a while.

 

Thanks !

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yeah correct

but not every ones skills are in typing douchebag

 

numbers are better then words for me .. but im sure Maxintosh will be back at some point for some people maybe he will talk very very slowly. see now when i have the time to take the time to type its not so bad.

 

Best way to look at it is you really dont own jack to say you have a right to install it on your pc ... so if you dont like it go pound some sand

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yeah correct

but not every ones skills are in typing douchebag

 

numbers are better then words for me .. but im sure Maxintosh will be back at some point for some people maybe he will talk very very slowly. see now when i have the time to take the time to type its not so bad.

 

Best way to look at it is you really dont own jack to say you have a right to install it on your pc ... so if you dont like it go pound some sand

Yes, yes, I'm sure your little butt buddy will be here soon to back your dumbass up. Speaking of that, why don't you get off his nuts already ?

 

I guess at least his posts are readable and make some kind of sense, whereas yours only serve to confirm yet again how much of an angry, retarded little fanboy you really are.

 

So some people didn't have to pay extra or sacrifice anything in order to experience your favorite OS and your upset about it, got your panties in a bunch, well too bad, get over it.

 

They'll either buy the real thing eventually or get bored and go back to whatever they used before.

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For a person who doesn't seem to like hackintoshes you seem to spend a fair amount of time here on a forum that is mainly about hackintoshes.

 

My personal view on them is that I will go the EFI-X route for building mine, whilst restrictive on the hardware at least it works without having to faff about. I did build a hackintosh but I don't want the effort of maintaining it.

 

Whilst I am not convinced about the legality of hackintoshes, my main area of concern with Psystar is that they are forcing the subject. Apple don't seem to be bothering with EFI-X or OSX86 as a not going to get many "average joe" users bothering with it. However Psystar are making it public and selling a product, making it visible. They are basically also taking the work done by forum members on getting OSX86 working and selling commercially.

 

Whilst it is relatively well hidden Apple will turn a blind eye ( this forum is still going) to OSX86 whilst it remains an enthusiasts system, afterall most people on here are unlikely to buy an Apple system anyway. If people start selling in competition then they are more likely to start cracking down on preventing OSX running on non-Apple systems.

 

It wouldn't be that hard for Apple to stop selling the upgrade packs that most hackintosh users buy to cover a license, this way theres no way anyone can argue that there OSX on a PC is legal.

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After reading every post in this thread, (been away for a while) I can see both sides of the argument. The one thing that really bugs me, sort of, is that it's o.k. to install Windows on a Mac (has been for years) but not to install Apple's OS's on a P.C. Seems hypocritical to me. If I use the popular "car" comparison, that would be like saying to a neighbor, "I can use your Ford any time I need to, but you can't use my Mercedes at all."

 

If I remember correctly, the big hubbub way back was that there weren't many good (fun) apps or programs made for the Mac, as Billy had/has the dominant OS, so someone found/developed a way to get Windows to work on a Mac. Due to popular demand, Apple (and their fans) promoted that ability from Win '98 (maybe even further back, I recall a Mac friend having win'95B on his PPC. I had suggested that I would like to see a machine that could run ANY OS and he said "Apple can do that, with an emulator.")

I have no problem with Apple wanting to keep it's hardware and software tied together, but does that make it a computer, or a console?

Don't get me wrong, I've had a few Macs, from and old Plus, to a PPC and I do like the systems ease of use. If I could afford even a reasonably good used one, I wouldn't hesitate to get it. That is the kicker here. It's all about price vs value.

If Apple could/would allow it, legally, using their OS's on a "properly equipped" PC would be fine with me.

I do agree with some who said the EULA states "Apple Labeled" means you can make/acquire and slap a sticker on the box. This is the grey area. Who puts the label on, Apple or the user? Good point, there.

As far as Steve and Co. bugging the OSx86 community, it seems to me, they may want to leave it alone and see how far it can be taken. In the meantime they can break the installs with updates, and see what happens next. They know we are here. It may even be a possibility, they want to see what will work natively, before deciding on what specs to allow their OS to be used on, without severe mods.

The big problem I see with the Psystar suit is, there are no winners only losers.

Just my Loonies worth. (Yes, I Am Canadian) ^_^

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If Apple could/would allow it, legally, using their OS's on a "properly equipped" PC would be fine with me.

I do agree with some who said the EULA states "Apple Labeled" means you can make/acquire and slap a sticker on the box. This is the grey area. Who puts the label on, Apple or the user? Good point, there.

 

 

If I used Apple's trademarked logo on a box and profiting from such infringement... wouldn't I stand in violation anyways???

 

And, I don't read "Apple Labeled" as a label of Apple. I read that as an item labeled BY Apple. Apple(subject) Labeled(verb)... Apple does the labeling.

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