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Update: The site has sold. The new owners are fellow OS X fans and have a great vision for the site in the next few years. You'll get the chance to meet them over the next few days. Stay tuned!

 

First, the great news. I found out last week that I’ve been accepted into a one-year Masters program at the University of Chicago. I’ll be seeking my degree in Political Theory at the school where so many great minds have gone before me. I’m honored to follow their footsteps.

 

Now, the rest of the story. InsanelyMac, along with the OSx86 Project wiki and OnMac.net, is for sale.

 

Over the course of many sleepless nights, I’ve come to the realize that the schedule required by such a program won’t allow me to devote the time required to see InsanelyMac grow into the future. It’s been a struggle to do so over the past year, and all indications would point to a school load that’s 3-4x what I’m currently carrying at the end of my Senior year. A community such as this needs a strong leader who will do whatever is necessary to fight for the continued strength of that community. I have served in that capacity as I was able, but fate now takes me on a much different path.

 

I thought I’d try to answer a few of the questions that I’ve received over the past few days in discussing the matter with the staff:

 

What will you be selling?

Simply the things for which I have paid from my own pocket – the server, the domains, the site design and databases, etc.

 

Who will you sell it to?

This is an important point – I will only sell to a buyer who is willing to “carry the torch” and continue to serve InsanelyMac in a manner that we would want. I will not sell to anyone – regardless of money – who does not have the best interests of the community in mind. You can count on that.

 

Will you leave?

No, not at all. I’ll be around for as long as InsanelyMac is here (forever?), although my schedule for the foreseeable future won’t allow the amount of involvement I’d like. I’ll also be here to help with the transition to new ownership.

 

Will the staff leave?

The staff has agreed to stay on through the transition as well. As always, they’re free to leave whenever they’d like. Real life often comes calling when we least expect (or want) it.

 

Why sell?

Ideally I’d just be able to hand the forum over one of the other Administrators of the site, but cmoski, the other remaining Admin, wants to spend his time with IRC-related pursuits. I could give it over to a group who wanted to manage it, but 2 years of running this place have taught me that rule by committee rarely works well.

 

Eventually I came to the conclusion that selling the site would be the best idea. It would give a new owner a stake in its success… and it ensures that he is committed to seeing it forward (or else he wouldn’t spend the money to buy it). It’s a little bit of insurance that my successor will be accountable to both himself and the community, which is exactly how a forum like this should run.

 

Where's the auction?

The SitePoint auction can be found here. Obviously, I'll give preference in bidding to InsanelyMac community members, even if they are not the highest bid.

 

Although I'll still be around in the months to come, let me say this: it's been one wild ride with all of you, and I thank you for all the times we've shared so far. I consider you my friends... and that's one that won't change, regardless of who owns the rights to the site.


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Detosx

Posted

I haven't had time to read right through this, lunch breaks being short as they are, but it seems to me that the more money is talked about, the more interested Apple legal may become, even though ultimately this site has been responsible for a heck of a lot Mac and software sales, in the way that the XP to OS X skinning/themeing sites were. I hope the good folks at Apple HQ will keep that in mind. They should give you a university grant for that matter! :rolleyes:

moridin

Posted

I have to say that I am a little disappointed that all this talk has come down to just being about money. Personally, I don't have a problem with this site even making someone rich, as long as it doesn't negatively impact the site (read:community). If the revenue was, say, ad generated. If the site is able to stay up with ads, and then donations are accepted. I think we have some issues.

 

I am relatively new to this site, and I have enjoyed my time here. As long as this community continues to grow, and isn't negatively impacted by the sale, then it's all good. I suppose that's life people.

 

All the best to everyone involved, and hopefully we can all continue to come back here and enjoy the experience.

Metrogirl

Posted

... any community, regardless of its function, requires a leader. That's the way human nature works - history has proven it time and time again. The best idea is community in which the people hold a leader accountable and the leader listens to the people.

 

Absolutely, Swad - I couldn't agree more.

asap18

Posted

Congrats Swad, you are on the front page of Digg again. :star_smile:

Rhapsody Guru

Posted

WOW... whant interesting development going on here! Who knows what will happen next.

 

Guru

Swad

Posted

So basically swad, It'll be like you're selling your house, and still living in it without having to pay a mortgage or utility bill.

:)

Soündless

Posted

my uncle did that, my dad called him a freeloader

alfdog

Posted

I'm new here, but I'm not a stranger to either business or community. Here are some of my own opinions...

 

Money has a way of bringing out the worst in people, that's life, Alot of people understand the reality of it, a few don't, but I also am not them, and I don't know "everything" either.

 

75k...

 

I see it mainly as a "barrier to entry". It really is there to keep out the people who aren't very "serious". I have no doubt that there are people who inside feel that they have the zeal and commitment to take on the site, but the amount helps ensure that whoever does, really does have the "ability" to do so.

 

I also think 75k is cheap (businesswise), everyday people make investments and gambles with more money on things that have less crediblility.

 

The reason I think this is cheap is because of the overwelming amount of "goodwill" the site has, but the kicker is, as we all know... the community is the reason why the site has (any) substantial worth.

 

Mash says he'll take less, he says he'll only let the site go to someone willing to "carry the torch"... I'm glad to hear this and I'm not surprised by this either. Do you really think anyone likes to see their pride and joy get mishandled? Being a leader means making the hard choices, the choices that are correct but don't always please everyone.

 

So... what's going to happen? If I had a time machine I'd post a screenshot, but the real answer is that only time will tell.

 

The good news is that we do have a hand in the future of this site, because we are the community :)

oregano

Posted

Wow. I was quite surprised when I got the email. I see a huge problem though. A site with this many members will be worth tens of thousands of dollars. I heard someone say $40,000. Nevertheless, it will sell for a large amount. But you have to think, who's going to want to buy this site? Some generous person? Probably can't afford it. It will be some advertising tycoon who will want to take advantage of the members. This can't happen, or the site will crumble before your eyes. You can't really sell it to the highest seemingly responsible bidder. I know you could make a fortune selling the site, but I hope you care more about the members than the money.

I think the change should be a quiet behinds the seen switch. You will slowly hand powers over to the most responsible staff members, but you should always have control just in case something goes wrong.

The only people with the money to buy this site will be those interested in advertising. Soon the simple text ads will be replaced with obnoxious flash ads. Do any of you know what Osx-e is? The ads there can get really bad, to the point where you can't even navigate through the site without accidentally clicking on something. I don't want to see that happen to InsanelyMac. It's not a matter of figuring out who they buyer is. It's a matter of giving it to the people who you have trusted and have devoted there time to the site: your current staff.

Zizou

Posted

I know I'd take that $75k for a website and all.

 

Jesus.. lol, Mash, you have my respect if this sites doesn;t end up as I'm fearing it would..

 

I see the pop-ups comming LOL.

Swad

Posted

Well, I received two bids at $75,000, and after a long discussion with one of the groups that bid, it's clear that they have the same vision for the site that we all do. I know that they're the ones who can take this forward.

 

I'll have more information for you in an hour or two.

quagmire

Posted

Well, I received two bids at $75,000, and after a long discussion with one of the groups that bid, it's clear that they have the same vision for the site that we all do. I know that they're the ones who can take this forward.

 

I'll have more information for you in an hour or two.

 

 

Sweet!! Best of Luck!!

wanamino

Posted

so swad i really hope you will sucessfull in your new studies :) thanks for this comunity !

asap18

Posted

Congrats look like it sold for the BIN price. When's the press conference??? :)

erbic

Posted

"paulmuk".... do we know him? Name seems familiar, but I can't place it.

alloutmacstoday

Posted

he's not a member here

 

EDIT: googled him and this came up

erbic

Posted

Meh, not particularly enlightening. The fact that he's a member of a Palm support forum isn't very revealing.

 

Come on, Swad! Give us something... :)

mac-mini

Posted

well as bofors would say "you are going to a REAL university" :)

 

good luck

Swad

Posted

well as bofors would say "you are going to a REAL university"
Haha, so true. :)
alloutmacstoday

Posted

"university of chicago, where fun comes to die"

and that isn't made up folks

Soündless

Posted

"university of chicago, where fun comes to die"

and that isn't made up folks

oh, i know all too well. atleast swad isnt a "lifer". (people who attend university of chicago pre school-graduate school)

Guest Ramm

Posted

Damn Swad.....75 grand......seeya :)

 

Who's the lucky auction winner? Has he an account yet?

Guest Kal-v2

Posted

Right. Guess we need a few points addressed here.

 

1. Not one single word of the digg article and the comments were incorrect. You know this, of course, but that's okay. We don't expect you to admit it. So let’s just get everything clear for those of you just tuning in.

 

AppleLegal, a *current* member of your IRC staff was one of the ones saying it, many were ex staff like myself, Star, and it was posted by a recent staff member at the request of another recent staff member. Nearly all of who left *because* you are most definitely not a good admin, and why on earth would they say it if it wasn't true?

There's nothing in it for us or them. Never was. Why we still care will be explained later in this post.

 

As for us having "changed names" supposedly well, you may notice that on digg you also have a different name. Not exactly uncommon. AppleLegal did sign his post with his more recognisable name too, so that statement and inferring that we were being sneaky is either wrong or you're a hypocrite. None of us have changed our name in the last two years or so at all. I'm still Kal, Star is still Star, Porcupine is still Porcupine, sampson is still sampson, Zappy is still {censored} and a PSP owner, jtle still drives into water far too often in BF2142... and so on. Of course you have done but hey... different rule for you, is it?

 

We've never hidden and sneaked around, nor have we actively had someone spy on the "enemy". Remember that little incident Mash? Or how hypocritical you are to claim you don't "condone" or "support" piracy, when past actions say otherwise. As do current ones, seeing as how you have STAFF MEMBERS actively posting in the AppleTV hacking section asking clearly for the hdd image from one quite openly.

Why don't we go to the trouble? We don't care about you enough to do so, sorry to say. Again, none of us expect you to accept this publically. Money to be made, after all. We however are perfectly willing to talk to people about it if they want to know, because we have no revenue stream to lose. We can afford to be honest. Nothing to gain, nothing to lose. Can you say the same?

 

2. On behalf of the older staff let's clarify a few things that people always wondered about, hopefully to make people realise how much you guys cover up and gloss over things that aren't "good for your image". We were credited staff on this site once. A lot of you also wondered what did happen to the original #osx86 IRC group. This was covered in the digg thread too but humour us here. Again, all of this is provable, and we're more than willing to take questions here or back on r-type - the original home of #osx86 where we still reside today. That’s how “hidden” we are.

 

We were not `fired`. We were not `removed` from the positions. Not in any way, shape or form. Therefore, we have no "grudge" or "axe to grind" as you may like to cause people to believe. This is why we are still on the original network, where you were all forced off of it. sHARD in particular was simply no longer welcome there.

 

Truth is, you even tried to get us to come back, didn't you? We declined again. We left because we all got together and chose to do so. Why was that again? Simple. The staff were, in more or less yours and sHARD's exact words, "there to do the {censored} job we can't be bothered with/don't have time for." and "dealing with the noobs". Those are more or less your words about the people reading this right now. Your beloved community that you love so dearly.

 

We were volunteers. We worked for zero, even though we all knew by that point you were doing quite well from the site. We kept on working for zero, even as the conditions there got worse. There because we wanted to help people. WE provided the support to the people in the very beginning, not you. This is also something you are well aware of. We did it again when we set up our own very successful version of the channel - WITH JaS, no less (for anyone wanting credibility for this, there you go) - which was not only far more intelligent but again, had us working for nothing because we enjoyed it. We still do it today albeit on our own terms. None of us has made a penny. None of us has wanted to. WE were the ones behind getting JaS donations for a Mac Pro as a thankyou, and convincing him to allow it (he never asked for it either, as you did), again with no real benefit to us, because we knew he deserved it for all his hard work. You never did a thing to pay him back. If you honestly believe you haven't been making money by standing on the shoulders of hard work done by him, myzar, aRT, semthex, Paulicat and the others, you're clearly deluded. They know it. It's why people come here. Everyone can see that.

 

The developers are sick of it too with this news by the sounds of it, hence the backlash and why they have moved off to their own IRC network now. OSx86 is dying out because of THIS attitude. You don't respect them, and you sure as hell don't accept that they are at least a good 99% of the `news` people come here for. That's wrong. This is why we are speaking up now. Remember people who are reading this - WE are the ones who helped JaS, because he helped us and everybody tirelessly and endlessly and he never once did so for any "reward" that you "deserve", so realise that clearly we care despite us being the `enemy` here.

 

Mash/Swad however? Everyone remember him asking for donations for a Macbook as a "reward" or a "thank you"? Remember that while he was doing that, he was making these supposed $1,500-2000 profits per month (more of which in a moment). How on earth is that right? Especially while the devs who do the real work see no reward for it? Now THAT is sneaky.

 

3. Ah the supposed $1500-2000 per month. Let's look at that for the potential buyer, shall we now? Sounds a lot doesn't it? Not bad anyway.

On the auction, Mash/Swad states that on a "good day" they make around $140. Of course day to day that varies widely, but let's say there was somehow an average of $120. Estimating high there. That amounts to roughly $44,000 being made, max, per year. Again, sounds wonderful, doesn't it?

 

If the site was to sell for around a `low` $50,000 - 25,000 less than the buy it now price and not uncommon for a site of this size - well, look at the math there. Add in server and running costs, assuming a "good" day the majority of the time even, it would take you well over a year just to break even after buying, never mind turn a profit. Still seem like a good deal?

 

Ah but it's not unusual to not make money in the first year for a business, I hear you say. Well. Who would go in for a deal where they end up losing money the first year *except* someone who wants to make a profit in the future? So the site would have to be run more a business, otherwise it's running at a loss. Simple. Buyer take note. This has and is damaging the relationship the site has left with the devs. The storm's getting worse, and we who know what is going on *don't* expect it to pass soon enough that it'd be worth it. If those figures include running costs already deducted, you'll be losing money. If they don't, you'll be losing more money. Does that seem like a good investment?

 

4. Fine. You still doubt us, users. Well, let's go onto something even our "bias" can't dispute.

 

Your "projections" do not add up Mash. This was pointed out by Zappy:

 

January 2007: 384,563 Unique visitors 8,293,774 Page Views 59,517,643 Hits

 

February 2007: 346,252 Unique visitors 7,815,998 Page Views 55,805,064 Hits

 

March 1-24 2007: 340,098 Unique visitors 6,615,180 Page Views 49,712,206 Hits

 

Now, potential buyers and users... do we spot a trend there that perhaps things are going downhill? Remember this is Mash/Swads own evidence of how the site is doing. Posted on his own auction.

 

February had nearly FORTY THOUSAND less unique visitors than January, 477,776 less page views and close to FOUR MILLION LESS HITS.

Ouch. Quite a drop isn't it. Nothing left going on and people are losing interest. Still, let's see what this month has been like.

March so far has dropped another 6,000+ unique visitors. Almost 1.2 MILLION less page views, and 5+ million less hits than February - which again had already fallen hugely since January. I think anyone with a basic grasp of math can see that's a pretty damn sharp decline the site is experiencing. A declining site, staff leaving... people, doesn't this signal *anything* to you about how "great" an admin Mash has been? So we have a definite decline, devs leaving as it is, staff going, and now the site is up for sale as it just happens to be making less money. Hmm, bit suspect that isn't it people?

Why? Who wants to go down with a clearly sinking ship like that?

Not good business. Ahem.

 

Our reasons for saying this, as I promised at the beginning, are simple. A final little piece of trivia for you all that should make that fairly simple.

Yesterday we talked. About the good, early days of OSx86. We were there in the very beginning, along with Mash, in the days that most of you don't remember, because you weren't around yet. We *were* the community that you are now. Each of us contributed as much as we could in the work that went on, even if it was only writing or helping out someone to find out what the situation was. We loved it and we had a lot of fun. *WE* were the heart of it all, the ones helping out so it grew. So don't dismiss us as "jealous ex staff". We cared about all this a lot, nobody can argue with that. Also notice that the people who have been around OSx86 the longest, are the ones who do not like Mash now. Isn't that interesting? You want to know why this is?

 

How many of you know what Mash really did in those early days? Again question this if you want because we can prove it:

 

Not one of the true original group can remember Mash doing *anything* worth note. At all. We sat and tried to. Some of us read old, old channel logs. He wasn't ever one of the ones who sat there, figuring things out for other people to help them, on their own time. Even Star, who has never even touched a hacked osx86 install, was providing tech support. Was he as good as the more knowledgable members? By his own admittance not. But even he was trying and helped people. Mash however... Most of the time, he wasn't even there - vanishing for weeks at a time - or was idle when he was. If he wasn't, it was to get people to digg articles to promote "his" site. Really. We were, and we were doing as much as we could because we wanted the community to become what it has now. That's what is so offensive about this sale and the profits he's been making. It insults *you*, the community, as he once again is vastly overstating his true involvement. That is what we don't like, because hey - we started this too.

 

"So what, he started the channel and the wiki and ran this site and so on" I hear you say. Guess what? That's not true either.

Shuddertrix - the original *true* admin - started things. He set up the wiki (as best as any of us recall), WE filled it with information. He didn't even design the site. ignorantcow did. sHARD was the one who dealt with the technical side of the current site up until recently - because Mash didn't know how to by his own admittance. And you know what? Mash stabbed Shuddertrix in the back to do it. Really. So what *did* he do in those early days..?

 

Mash... idled. Occasionally talked about how big this could be. Didn't exactly help anyone in a real sense that any of the people who were there to see it can remember. Nor did he staff the fledgling IRC channel that formed. Again providing the early difficult help and support when things were a LOT more complex than just putting one of JaS's wonderful creations into your dvd drive... was us. Darwin commands, anyone? dd'ing images from vmware and setting up hardware that didn't want to work? The devs did the work getting things running and they deserve endless respect for that. We did what we could offer, helping people actually use the end results. Mash was absent weeks at a time, and when he was there again it was mostly idling. I wouldn't expect him to dispute this either.

So here's us. On the raggedy edge. The ones who were helping in our small way to get the developers work to the community. Our little part of their much bigger contribution. We did it for the fun, and the satisfaction, never once asking for money or "reward" even though those people worked a lot harder than you. sHARD did more than you in real terms, and even we can respect him on that. Think on that.

 

This isn't right Mash. You know it if you realise for one single second the devs have been a huge part of "your" site's growth. Look at your own user figures that are there and you can see it. They (the devs) have been quieter for a while now, and the site figures are falling drastically because they have been. I think anyone here could see that, and I don't think anyone except you would really deny it. You don't respect them, not in a real sense. Which is why they have already left your IRC network, and some like myzar sound as if they will leave here too with the revelations. You talk of it as a "reward" deserved for hard work. Hopefully in reading this, people will question how deserved that really is and realise that we've been saying this all along. You've glossed over and denied things to yourself for the sake of the public image. We've told the truth to the community *we* started. The difference is we do respect the developers and don't claim to have done more than we really have. So no Mash, this isn't right. The figures you give prove it. It's their work that mattered most, not yours. The community *should* be pissed about it, because I'm sure they still have a sense of fairness that can't be covered by vague political rhetoric about how `unfair` they're being to not expect you to profit. You have done all along. You're caught. At least be decent enough to own up that it's not all your work and do the right thing. Give THEM the reward. We helped JaS get his. Will you help them and recognise their contribution now?

 

Kal - former member of staff and original IRC staff. (Who is not hiding and can be found with the others at r-type should anyone want to ask about this. And would have posted from his original account but hey, disabled...)



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