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Electoral Compass USA


johan
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Who should become the next USA president?  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. pick your candidate

    • Barack Obama
      16
    • John Edwards
      0
    • Hillary Clinton
      3
    • Bill Richardson
      1
    • Ron Paul
      7
    • Rudy Giuliani
      3
    • John McCain
      0
    • Mitt Romney
      2
    • Mike Huckabee
      1
    • Fred Thompson
      2


46 posts in this topic

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Ron Paul's views from a third party:

no thanks

 

his economic positions, abolishing fed agencies, gun control, drugs, and global warming position are too out-there.

 

good thing he won't win ...

 

I agree, Ron Paul is so right wing he is almost Hitler.

The way he refers to "illegal aliens" is quite scary.

 

But America voted for Bush, so never say never...

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I agree, Ron Paul is so right wing he is almost Hitler.

What? What?? You want Right Wing, look at Huckabee and Romney. They are a lot more Right Wing than Ron Paul is...

The way he refers to "illegal aliens" is quite scary.

Thats the term the media and all politicians use, but when Ron Paul uses it it's scary?

his economic positions, abolishing fed agencies, gun control, drugs

Wait, so you want the government placing more restrictions on American business, more taxes, gun control ({censored}ting all over the second ammendment) and you want to help finance a war on substances that puts American citizens in jail?

Note: This Debt Clock was last calibrated using information obtained from the U.S. Department of the Treasury dated 17 January 2008.

The Outstanding Public Debt as of Now is:

debtiv.gif

 

The estimated population of the United States is 304,127,864

so each citizen's share of this debt is $30,219.81.

Unless someone like Ron Paul is elected, that number is going to do nothing but go up.

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What? What?? You want Right Wing, look at Huckabee and Romney. They are a lot more Right Wing than Ron Paul is...

 

Thats the term the media and all politicians use, but when Ron Paul uses it it's scary.

 

Wait, so you want the government placing more restrictions on American business, more taxes, gun control ({censored}ting all over the second ammendment) and you want to help finance a war on substances that puts American citizens in jail?

 

Unless someone like Ron Paul is elected, that number is going to do nothing but go up.

 

I dislike those two even more (evolution not true, all non-monotheists are wrong).

 

Marvin wasn't saying that it was scary because he used the term, but that Ron Paul says scary things about them.

 

No, I don't want more, but I also don't want them to go away. Ron Paul is extremist about his economic positions, and gun control.

 

What you just said is like saying "What, you want to help finance a war on child molestation that puts american citizens in jail?". Uh, yeah i do want to finance a war that puts american citizens in jail if they are doing illegal things.

 

And please explain to me how reducing taxes will decrease our debt. That is flat out wrong.

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Ron Paul! :D

 

Really, I'll be happy with anyone except Clinton or the mainstream Republicans. We do not need another war monger (Giuliani, McCain), corporate tool (Clinton), or religious lunatic (Huckabee). Although I do like Paul's policies the best, and I support him on the basis of his true party (Libertarians rock!!!), Obama could potentially do an okay job. Between the current candidates, I guess the standings for me are:

  1. Paul
  2. Kucinich
  3. Obama
  4. Edwards
  5. Thompson
  6. Clinton
  7. All the other war mongers and religious nutbags

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No, I don't want more, but I also don't want them to go away. Ron Paul is extremist about his economic positions, and gun control.

Theres actually a lot of people who oppose gun control.

Uh, yeah i do want to finance a war that puts american citizens in jail if they are doing illegal things.

The war on drugs is very expensive, and in my opinion unnecessary. Just because something is illegal does not mean it is bad by the way. This is the discussion for another thread however.

And please explain to me how reducing taxes will decrease our debt. That is flat out wrong.

No, but the durastic cutting of government spending that Paul supports would definitely decrease the debt.

Paul
  • Kucinich
  • Obama
  • My top 3 as well ;)

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    Theres actually a lot of people who oppose gun control.

     

    The war on drugs is very expensive, and in my opinion unnecessary. Just because something is illegal does not mean it is bad by the way. This is the discussion for another thread however.

     

    No, but the durastic cutting of government spending that Paul supports would definitely decrease the debt.

     

    My top 3 as well :D

     

    there may be a lot of people who oppose gun control, but it is still an extremist position to advocate complete and total gun-freedom. There are many safety aspects to gun control. While it is possible to get one on the black market, having gun control laws makes it a lot harder for a criminal to get one, which makes us safer.

     

    I do not believe that we should simply stand idle while high school and younger age kids get their hands on drugs powerful enough to destroy their mind forever. That, imo, is why the war on drugs is a good thing. Weed does not necessarily fit in here, and it is mostly the chemical drugs that I am talking about.

     

    I believe cutting of spending should come first, and then once that is shown to be economically viable, then we cut tax spending.

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    With 180 million gun owners in America, you will have to go to war with us before you take our guns. And you are disarmed. So there you go. We make the majority in America. You are the minority.

     

    I support the Charlton Heston gun position. Its called, From my cold dead hands.

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    its called the military. I'd like to see you take it on.

     

    tanks, bombs, aircraft, missiles all beat guns.

     

    and then there is nukes..

     

    and I don't think anyone advocates total abolition of guns (no one mainstream at least)

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    its called the military. I'd like to see you take it on.

     

    tanks, bombs, aircraft, missiles all beat guns.

     

    and then there is nukes..

     

    and I don't think anyone advocates total abolition of guns (no one mainstream at least)

     

    I guess I'm not mainstream then :(

     

    I would completely support scrapping the military. All the money it costs can be spent on renewables and patching up the economy.

     

    Iceland isn't the most developed country in the world for no reason.

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    • 2 months later...
    With 180 million gun owners in America, you will have to go to war with us before you take our guns. And you are disarmed. So there you go. We make the majority in America. You are the minority.

     

    I support the Charlton Heston gun position. Its called, From my cold dead hands.

     

    AMEN, BROTHER!

     

    Even though he's not the perfect candidate (a perfect candidate is no candidate), Ron Paul is the only true republican on that ballot. There's no way he's going to win, of course, but he has performed better than any other candidate ever with a Libertarian leaning and that's nothing but good news. The reception during his campaign has rocked the media (though sadly, mostly just the Internet) and if that influences the political landscape just a little -- I would consider his campaign a success.

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    I know what things I am replying to are a bit old, but:

    Theres actually a lot of people who oppose gun control.

    Yeah, and they aren't elitist secret muslims.

    Wait, so you want the government placing more restrictions on American business, more taxes, gun control ({censored}ting all over the second ammendment)

    Yes, I want more restrictions on American Buisiness, gun control, and more taxes. That last one seems a little outta there: who wants more taxes? But, it is what is better for the country, and not me.

    and you want to help finance a war on substances that puts American citizens in jail?

    No, I don't want them to go to jail, I want them to go to rehab centers. Drugs are the only reason we have 2.3 million people in jail.

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    Yeah, and they aren't elitist secret muslims.

    Obama sort of misspoke. He was (or I think, I'm not Obama) trying to speak on their behalf about how these small towns have suffered in the past 25 years. He came across as elitist, which was not at all his intention. And secret Muslim? First of all he is not Muslim at all, and its not like any of the other candidates are free from the influence of religion.

    No, I don't want them to go to jail, I want them to go to rehab centers. Drugs are the only reason we have 2.3 million people in jail.

    Exactly. Decriminalize soft drugs ( I'm going to smoke the reefer no matter what the law is, sorry ) , and provide government run rehab centers for addictive and hard drugs. This actually is beneficial to people.

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    He was (or I think, I'm not Obama) trying to speak on their behalf about how these small towns have suffered in the past 25 years. He came across as elitist, which was not at all his intention.

    Correct. He was not implying this but then that's what politics are like. His opponents would have been crazy not to try to twist his words around. Unfortunately that's a key element of politics in this country. Personally I think hillary acts more like a republican everyday :)

     

    With 180 million gun owners in America, you will have to go to war with us before you take our guns.

    What a joke ;)

     

    And you are disarmed.

    Your delusion is the rest of the countries salvation :)

     

    We make the majority in America. You are the minority.

    More delusion. The NRA brainwashes you well :)

     

    I support the Charlton Heston gun position. Its called, From my cold dead hands.

    We support the old adage "live by the sword, die by the sword". BTW did we mention that those hands were rather cold these days? How prophetic.

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    We support the old adage "live by the sword, die by the sword". BTW did we mention that those hands were rather cold these days? How prophetic.

     

    You seem to be one of those people who thinks that guns magically sprout legs and run around killing people.

     

    How many people do you think would have died at Virginia Tech, for instance, if they were allowed firearms on campus? It's known that a large percentage of students there had concealed carry permits, but law prevented them from carrying them on the university property.

     

    Letting those people carry their firearms wouldn't have stopped it happening, sure (we can agree nothing can stop that, not even gun control), but anyone can understand that the situation would have been handled much quicker if people were allowed to defend THEMSELVES -- rather than sitting around waiting for the police (who are actually not legally obligated to do anything to help you, no matter how much tax you pay -- point of interest). This even brings up another question: why do you believe the police should be entitled to a firearm? Do you believe they are 'higher' people than us in any way?

     

    This is just one example. Violent crime figures from countries around the world back up the old, yet fresh adage that "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".

     

    More delusion. The NRA brainwashes you well

     

    I can't argue with you there. The NRA couldn't care less about your liberty as they claim, they just love their firearms. They are a society of gun nuts and nothing more.

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    anyone can understand that the situation would have been handled much quicker if people were allowed to defend THEMSELVES

    That is a myth propagated by the NRA and guess what? You fell for it hook line and sinker. That's right, even before a single Virginia Tech victims name was known - the gun lobby called for college campuses to be turned into shooting galleries :( These are the facts - The Virginia Tech shooter had been “adjudicated as a mental defectiveBEFORE he purchased the two handguns he used in his rampage. Unfortunately, because of the NRA he was thought to be a lawful firearms purchaser, because of how the gun lobby always blocks laws for thorough background checks. The Brady background check would have barred him from purchasing those guns IN THE FIRST PLACE - but who do you think blocked that law from going into effect? That's right, the gun lobby! Let's look a little closer at concealed weapons to see what the truth is about them. The gun lobby always fails to mention that thousands of people with concealed weapons licenses have committed atrocious acts of gun violence. That's because these are the kinds of things that look good on paper, but in real life, they just don't work in this modern world. The police chief at the University of Cincinnati said it best "I don't think the answer to bullets flying is to send more bullets flying. If you're responding to the scene of a shooting, how do you sort out who is the bad guy and who is the heroic student with a permit? The other side of that, I shoot everybody with a gun who doesn't have a uniform on, and I can then end up shooting somebody who was a citizen with a carry permit".

     

    Also, ask yourself what else is known to be on every college campus? That's right - drugs and alcohol. Anytime you mix drugs, alcohol and guns it is a bad combination no matter who you ask! Binge drinking is highest among 18-24 year olds, and the gun lobbies solution is to give guns to binge-drinking college kids? ;) What in your mind tells you that makes sense? According to a new study by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University, “nearly half of America’s 5.4 million full-time college students abuse drugs or drink alcohol on binges at least once a month.” How much more frequently will temporarily-depressed youths commit suicide if guns are easily available? For college gun owners, the rate of binge drinking is even higher – a whopping two thirds! Alcohol is involved in 90% of campus rapes, the majority of college student suicides, and 95% of the violent crime on campus, and the NRA wants to give them guns? :rolleyes: Even someone trained like a police officer is found "unfit for duty" when they are drinking. The New York Police Department Patrol Guide, clearly states: “Members of the service SHOULD NOT be in possession of their firearms if there is any possibility that they may become unfit for duty due to the consumption of intoxicants"... and the gun lobbies idea is to give guns to untrained students? How ludicrous, especially when we already know that it will cause MORE problems than it might fix. Two studies of college students found that those students who owned guns were more likely than the average student to engage in binge drinking, feel the need for an alcoholic drink first thing in the morning, use cocaine or crack, be arrested for a DUI, vandalize property, and have increased trouble with the law. You can see the studies yourself by reading "Guns at College" supra note 58; and "Guns and "Gun Threats at College" supra note 56, and 59.

     

    Here's another important point never mentioned by the NRA - If a concealed gun owner on campus opened fire they could very easily hurt other innocent students because unlike police officers, people with concealed-weapons are not necessarily well-trained in shooting in crowds and reacting to those kinds of situations. You probably know that police officers are constantly training to use their guns, but did you know why? It's because study after study has shown that even a well trained police officer when under pressure only hits their target less than 20% of the time. These people use guns for a living and even they have problems hitting their intended targets and now you want untrained students, who possibly may have been drinking to start shooting into crowds? :rolleyes: Training in handgun safety is not required at all in ten of the thirty-one CCW states. The last thing that we need then is for a scared untrained student running around with a gun and quite possibly getting themselves shot by police (thinking they're the gunman).

     

    Another thing that the NRA doesn't want you to know is that colleges are generally SAFER than other areas of the population because guns are restricted. A U.S. Justice Department study found that from 1995 to 2002, college students aged 18 to 24 experienced violence at significantly lower average annual rates – almost 20% lower – than non-students in the same age group. Moreover, 93% of the violence against students occurs off campus. Even 85% of the violent crimes against students who live on campus occur at locations off campus. Most of the students who were interviewed by CNN said the idea of guns on campus scares them, and it should. The LAST thing that we need is to return to days of the wild-wild west mentality! Common sense dictates that more firearms on campus = an increased risk of accidental shootings and deaths. Utah allows students to carry guns and research shows that they are no safer, in-fact just the opposite might be true. The simple fact of the matter is that people bent on creating violence - research what they plan to do ahead of time. When they find out that guns are allowed on campus it WON'T stop them one bit, they will just resort to other, perhaps bloodier methods, such as bombing the school, killing even more innocent people. This trend of "more guns" is better is wrong, and only profits the NRA and gun dealers. What we need is better prevention methods.

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    First off, are you arguing against gun rights here -- or just the gun lobby itself?

     

    The Brady background check would have barred him from purchasing those guns IN THE FIRST PLACE - but who do you think blocked that law from going into effect? That's right, the gun lobby![/i]".

     

    The Brady Background Check did actually pass as law in 1994. Cho passed it (or rather the NICS, which replaced the Brady Check in favour of an instant computerised check rather than a 7 day waiting period). Cho purchased his first handgun on February 9th, his second on March 13th. His rampage commenced a month later, far out of the reach of the Brady Check or any gun control initiative.

     

    Let's look a little closer at concealed weapons to see what the truth is about them. The gun lobby always fails to mention that thousands of people with concealed weapons licenses have committed atrocious acts of gun violence. That's because these are the kinds of things that look good on paper, but in real life, they just don't work in this modern world.

     

    You say "let's look a little closer" but you haven't looked closer at all. Could you provide any statistics or other form of anecdotal evidence here? Perhaps something showing what percentage of CCW holders have actually committed violent gun crimes?

     

    It may be worth pointing out here that for the first five years of CCW permits in Florida (87 to 92), the Florida Police recorded the number of crimes committed by CCW holders. They recorded only 4 instances, none of which resulted in an injury. They subsequently ended this program in 1992 because there simply weren't enough crimes to make it worth it.

     

    Also, ask yourself what else is known to be on every college campus? That's right - drugs and alcohol. Anytime you mix drugs, alcohol and guns it is a bad combination no matter who you ask! Binge drinking is highest among 18-24 year olds, and the gun lobbies solution is to give guns to binge-drinking college kids?.

     

    College kids already carry guns. They do in all but two other states off campus. No problems. You also cite stats for 18-24 year olds here, but it is impossible to get a CCW until 21. Regardless, if it's only students that are so irresponsible, why not let staff carry?

     

    Nearly half of America’s 5.4 million full-time college students abuse drugs or drink alcohol on binges at least once a month.

     

    Prohibition's working great, I see then. Notice how prohibition also stopped Cho bringing a gun onto campus?

     

    and the gun lobbies idea is to give guns to untrained students?

     

    CCW applicants need to pass a course of training (specifically true in the case of Virginia). While I do agree with vetting CCW applicants before issuing them, I do not agree with legislation from the government's side forcing this.

     

    How ludicrous, especially when we already know that it will cause MORE problems than it might fix.

     

    As I have stated before, CCW laws have indeed been proven to lower crime rates.

     

    If a concealed gun owner on campus opened fire they could very easily hurt other innocent students because unlike police officers, people with concealed-weapons are not necessarily well-trained in shooting in crowds and reacting to those kinds of situations.

     

    How is this any worse than getting killed by the psycho killer first, and where is the evidence of this actually happening? In this case, a major factor is deterrent. The idea is that, not only can you stop a shooting if it occurs, but the shooting shouldn't happen in the first place. Legislation clearly isn't stopping it.

     

    Training in handgun safety is not required at all in ten of the thirty-one CCW states.

     

    48 states allow CCW.

     

    Another thing that the NRA doesn't want you to know is that colleges are generally SAFER than other areas of the population because guns are restricted.

     

    Then why are college campuses safer than the surrounding areas everywhere else in the world? Even where guns are banned compeltely, like in Britain. What proof is there that lack of guns is the cause? Might increased security have something to do with it? Or the fact that white, middle class college students aren't exactly your typical muggers and gang bangers?

     

    Common sense dictates that more firearms on campus = an increased risk of accidental shootings and deaths.

     

    Common sense DICTATES? What the hell does that mean? Does some higher common sense authority dictate that your opinion is the only valid one?

     

    When they find out that guns are allowed on campus it WON'T stop them one bit, they will just resort to other, perhaps bloodier methods, such as bombing the school, killing even more innocent people.

     

    So, the goal of the psycho killers is to kill as many people as possible to unleash your angst or whatever; yet they choose to use an inferior method of destruction?

     

    "Utah allows students to carry guns and research shows that they are no safer, in-fact just the opposite might be true."

     

    I might have a 6ft long phallus, but I can't prove it. No safer, no worse off. It reminds me of the Simpons' joke where Lisa claims her rock is preventing bears attacking the town. Prove that it is. Prove that it isn't. However, have you heard of any psycho killings in Utah? I didn't think so.

     

    What we need is better prevention methods.

     

    Two in the chest and one in the head is pretty damn preventative.

     

    "Live by the sword, die by the sword.". I guess we gun lobbyists (note I did not say gun owners. I do not, in fact, own a gun) kinda live by the same motto. Except it's the guy trying to take my sword who dies from it. Or, as Tolkien wrote "the women of this land learned long ago that those without swords can still die upon them", or as that Jesus guy said: "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.".

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