Fresh News from the Intel Front

[dkelley]

Is this true now? Does Rosetta really support Altivec (G4 emulation)? I mean, this came up a few weeks ago and I thought the consensus was "no".

 

EDIT: Since nobody has jumped on my question, I just went through the relevent thread here: http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=4729 (see pages 8-9 in particular).

 

While Mashughly wrote a front pager which suggested that a new Rosetta version supported Altivec, all the evidence presented here is to the contary.

 

Rosetta does NOT emulate Altivec (G4).

 

Yes it does, I'm using it right now. the 8F1111G (or 8F1111A if you prefer that terminology) update includes the new rosetta which does altivec emulation and is also MUCH faster than previous versions of rosetta. Check out Maxxuss web site (google it) for more info. Everything G4 works, for example, I'm running g4-based 3d games, aperture, and other g4 only apps.

 

DBK

[dkelley]

you are right about that apple hardware division will prolly go out of business in a bunch of years for sure, the x86 world is way different from sj beloved zealotry field

huh windows xp is over 60% of the whole market i wouldn't call that a terrible adoption rate, and about business xp isn't supposed to be used in a business enviroment, you have win2k3 for that

1) never

2) never, macosx can have a chance to fight if it's released as a consumer os but since sjobs is narrow minded and he will do his best to delay his hardware division to go bankruptcy then never again because hoping that people would start to buy intel power macs is again hopeless ;P

 

 

WTF??? xp isn't supposed to be used in a business environment?? It's MADE for a business environment, hence the xp pro version (as opposed to xp home) with it's domain based logins etc. And it's very stable in a business environment, that's why the company I work for use it on all pcs purchased within the last year (and my company has around 15,000 employees...)

 

and your statement that win2k3 is for business instead of xp??? windows 2003 server (there is no desktop version) is just that, a SERVER operating system. It's not for workstations. xp is the desktop client os, 2003 is the server os. They work together, sometimes at an installation ratio at least 100 to 1 (xp to 2003 machines) in office settings.

 

While I'd MUCH rather see OSX take over the world, vista looks to be a very good operating system which will unfortunately (for microsoft) probably be too little too late. As long as Apple takes advantage of the delayed release schedule of vista, they could probably increase their market share and their visibility in the business sector.

[KublaKhan]

I'm holding my peace on this topic until the Macworld now...

 

I hope Apple has some pleasant suprises lined up.... that I hope will be bigger than expected.

 

Ttyl,

 

GhengisKhan

 

P.S. I agree, dkelley, the bad thing about Vista is definately timing. I might buy a Intel Mac soon after all...

[Ouch]

Why pick just one of what looks like two great OSes - i'm going to buy an intel powerbook and dual boot it with vista when its released! Best of both worlds.

[KublaKhan]

because I really want a T.V. card (T.V. support -HD would be optimal, then my computer would be able to decode HD video using less CPU... when I eventually get an external HD drive (if Holographic storage doensn't became better by then).

At least, that's the plan I have right now... just tying to be smart consumer.

[bofors]

Yes it does, I'm using it right now. the 8F1111G (or 8F1111A if you prefer that terminology) update includes the new rosetta which does altivec emulation and is also MUCH faster than previous versions of rosetta. Check out Maxxuss web site (google it) for more info. Everything G4 works, for example, I'm running g4-based 3d games, aperture, and other g4 only apps.

 

DBK

 

 

Can someone else verify that Rosetta does in fact emulate Altivec?

 

I just glossed over Maxxuss' website and found nothing on this issue.

[bofors]

huh windows xp is over 60% of the whole market i wouldn't call that a terrible adoption rate, and about business xp isn't supposed to be used in a business enviroment, you have win2k3 for that

 

Ok, I did not have any hard data and was just going with the impression I have gotten from what I have read elsewhere. But 60% over how many years? More importantly, let's exclude the consumer market and just focus on businesses. What fraction of businesses PC are running XP?

 

Perhaps "terrible" was a little harsh of a word choice here, but XP adoption rates certainly have not been stellar and I see little difference between W2K Pro and XP (but then again I avoid doing Windows).

 

I expect that businesses will be adopting Vista at a rate slower than that for XP.

 

1) never

2) never, macosx can have a chance to fight if it's released as a consumer os but since sjobs is narrow minded and he will do his best to delay his hardware division to go bankruptcy then never again because hoping that people would start to buy intel power macs is again hopeless ;P

 

I am thinking very long term here, not just over the next few years.

 

(1) Linux on the desktop will never go mainstream? Come on, sooner or later somebody is going to pick it up, do it right and make it big. In my mind, it is simple a question of when. I would expect something over the next ten years.

 

(2) What? Windows has great inertia but it's position is unstable. Again, sooner or later things are going to change significantly. Perhaps twenty five years is a reasonable timeframe for the down fall of Windows.

Edited January 7, 2006 by bofors

[dkelley]

Can someone else verify that Rosetta does in fact emulate Altivec?

 

I just glossed over Maxxuss' website and found nothing on this issue.

 

Your glossing over of Maxxuss' website doesn't appear to have involved following links... ;-) no insult intended, but as I said the information is right there.

 

EDIT: Removed content violating DMCA

 

I quote:

 

"Rosetta is an Mac OS X PowerPC emulation platform. The update in build 8F1111A contains now a full G4 support, including Altivec."

 

I hope this helps to clarify things. The posts you were pointing out defending your statement that altivec and g4 aren't supported are old (please check the dates), and if you read the posts you linked to you'll read that they were saying that the 8f1111a release (which was widely accepted as being a G4/altivec update) was vapourware. Since even the front page of maxxuss' website (and many forums in this site and others) clearly state that 8f1111a is real, and has in fact been in the public for about a month now, it seems pretty easy to find defence of the existence of altivec emulation. Maybe you didn't read the entire threads in the forums from the beginning where 8f1111a was first mentioned and it's specs were revealed.

 

And of course, I did clearly say in my previous email that I'm running it. Does it only become real if more than one person is running it? Just curious... :-) haha, I'm only kidding, I understand that you don't know who I am or if I truly know what I'm talking about. You could always checkout my site at MacX86.co.uk , not that it really proves much. It's my personal blog about osx on intel.

Edited February 17, 2006 by Metrogirl

[bofors]

Your glossing over of Maxxuss' website doesn't appear to have involved following links... ;-) no insult intended, but as I said the information is right there.

 

EDIT: Removed content violating DMCA

 

I quote:

 

"Rosetta is an Mac OS X PowerPC emulation platform. The update in build 8F1111A contains now a full G4 support, including Altivec."

 

I hope this helps to clarify things.

 

Yes, absolutely and thank you. However, it should be noted that Apple has released a 2nd Edition of the Universal Binary Programming Guidelines which is dated 12.6.05. It still claims no Altivec support for Rosetta: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/M.../uid/TP40002217

 

Perhaps Apple has yet to commit to Altivec support in Rosetta?

 

Since you are a developer, maybe you can answer another question. I am thinking about doing Altivec programming on an x86 PowerBook (in the future). If I compile my code for PPC (with Altivec) and launch it with the debugger in XCode, Rosetta should be triggered even though the debugger process is a subtask of x86 XCode, right? I mean, Rosetta is not all or none with respect subprocesses, right? If an x86 process launches a PPC sub-process, Rosetta handles it, right?

 

Alternatively, I suppose I could just run PPC XCode with Rosetta and avoid any subprocess problems when debuging my PPC/Altivec code.

Edited February 17, 2006 by Metrogirl

[Luke]

The Acer laptop has been officially announced:

 

http://us.acer.com/acerpanam/page4.do?dau2...&crc=1074370188

[cyrana]

Sue me for cross posting.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/con...0109_832565.htm

[Urbz]

I mostly agree with the fact that Vista will suck. For the end-user.

IMO, they may like it's look and drool over it's eye-candy, but there are not many more features built-in than had XP.

However, for buisness, Vista has incredible potential. So many things make it easier for a network administrator to do his or her job, and many new features make the whole OS more secure. For example, they have added user-level protection: REAL user level protection. You know how, in mac or unix, you need to go through a confirm dialog box to edit a system file? THAT! And believe me, when you can have a fully functional locked-down system with a password, it helps enormously. No logging in and out and having multiple accounts, one for administrator, and one for the normal account. But most importantly, even for a normal user with administrator rights, they are not running their system with lowered security: should something need a higher priveledge, they simply activate that automatically on-demand at the click on a button.

As a network admin myself, i can't wait. I know that unix and linux and mac have had this for a long time, but we NEED windows. The {censored} stops there: our specialised software requires windows, and whomever said the windows adoption rates were slow: i agree. New computers=new OS, but old computers=old OS. Simple as that.

 

Alright: On topic.

 

The switch to intel, as someone said, is not for better performance or battery life. A mac laptop has been exceding centrino for a while now. Sure, the powerpc architecture has moved mainly twoards gaming, but in the end, it's because intel is the leader of the pc market. Chipsets and motherboards and even integrated graphics, intel means a higher market share. and now, there's the battery life which they really have gotten into without sacrificing performance, which has been apple's stance all along. it's so people can UNDERSTAND the specs of a mac and compare them to a pc. Then, later, i would imagine that osx will become license-able, and thats when the mac converts becomes a feasible number. Then, apps and games will follow, and soon the mac platform, software-wise, will be established fully. From there, it's just normal growth and innovations each year. as far as hardware sales: who WOULDN'T want a shiny whit iBook to match their ipod? Or a powerbook that's one of the most powerful laptops in the industry? Even for the MS fanboys, or those who need windows, they could keep their OS and choose the "cool" hardware.

 

Just my few dollars!

 

-urby

[Metrogirl]

Don't worry, Bofors, I deleted your 'undeletable' post for you...

 

Returning to topic, I spotted this line hidden in one of the news sites -

 

"The analyst also fueled rumors of an even closer relationship forming between Apple and Intel, saying there are indications that the two companies may be working together on a custom microprocessor chip-set that would appear only in Apple systems."

 

It's been linked in this discussion before, but I thought it worth highlighting. That custom chipset could spell trouble - or a lot of work - for us.

[bofors]

Thanks MetroGirl, in the mean time I found this to post instead:

 

 

In case people here are looking for live coverage of today's game (which starts at noon EST, or in about 75 minutes):

 

MacRumors is supposed to be providing web-based and IRC live coverage:

 

http://www.macrumors.com/

 

Some folks at ArsTechnica are also trying to do something over IRC:

 

http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl.../2426#comments

 

 

Here are some pictures of MWSF. These include inside Moscone shots and Steve Jobs outside:

 

http://macrumors.liquid5th.net//index.html

 

These show the line for the keynote this morning:

 

http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/1/10/2430

Edited January 10, 2006 by bofors

[cyrana]

Good find metrogirl... Yeah it would spell problems for some of us. (but I'm going to spend cash, so I don't care hehe)

 

LMAO @ that last cartoon. That amplifier also has a repeater in each Apple Store, don't forget.

[Guest terry]

Re: bofors' deleted post... The first time I see Jobs' car. Well, I applaud that he seems to prefer German brands, but the rims, the rims... What a bad taste. They're disgusting, ruining the whole appearance.

 

It's been linked in this discussion before, but I thought it worth highlighting. That custom chipset could spell trouble - or a lot of work - for us.

Please explain, I don't get it. The article assumes they're working on something special, not that they have already created such a thing. Given that it isn't ready yet and we'll see the first Intel Macs very soon, this chipset can never be a mandatory requirement for OS X as long as these models are to be supported. Hardware-wise, they have to get their things together with the very first model, no second try, or am I wrong in this respect?

[bofors]

Re: bofors' deleted post... The first time I see Jobs' car. Well, I applaud that he seems to prefer German brands, but the rims, the rims... What a bad taste. They're disgusting, ruining the whole appearance.

 

I have this hosted at ImageSchack now:

 

 

 

Here are the rest of pictures:

 

http://macrumors.liquid5th.net//index.html

 

I agree that those rims do suck (but what do you expect from a guy who wears a black turtle neck and jeans everyday?), so does the car in my mind. Steve has a thing for Mercedes-Benz's in particular and frankly both BMW and Audi, or for that matter Porsche, offer much better performance.

 

In other Jobs' related news:

 

Lego is introducing a hot new product at MWSF:

 

 

The iSteve Mini TM:

 

Edited January 10, 2006 by bofors

[Guest terry]

I agree that those rims do suck (but what do you expect from a guy who wears a black turtle neck and jeans everyday?),

Hehe.

 

so does the car in my mind.

Well, I agree on this point. I'm not really a big Mercedes-Benz fan, either. With two exceptions: I really like the new CLS

 

http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cls8mp.png

 

and the classic 300SL gull wing is my all-time favorite:

 

http://www.caamdp.com.ar/images/Fangio03/M...ing%20300SL.jpg

http://www.calconnect.com/weekly_photo/MB%...GullWing_HR.jpg

http://www.gullwinggroup.org/photos/search.php?view=recent

 

But, ummm, this is slightly getting off-topic...

[bofors]

OK, back on topic.

 

Kevin Rose was right about 10.4.4, it is being released today (at least for PPC).

 

I can't wait to see what this "MacBook" is all about, I serious hope they have added some Mighty Mouse-like features to the trackpad/button.

 

 

Funny {censored}:

Steve demoing Garageband with Podcast studio.

 

"Hi, I'm Steve, welcome to my podcast of Super Secret Apple Rumors"

 

He's got "Pretty good sources in Apple"

 

...

 

Paul Otellini in bunnysuit??? (WTF?)

 

Intel iMac???

 

"2-3 times faster than the iMac G5"

 

2.0 GHz "duo" (dual core) chip with 2mb L2 cache.

 

"Tiger 10.4.4 is entirely native on Intel core duo."

 

iMac has ATI x1600, reportedly (MacRumors)

 

Shipping today!

...........................

 

MacBook Pro

 

Intel Core Duo

 

15.4 widescreen LCD

 

Built-in iSight

 

IR sensor and the apple remote, Front Row built right in to the new MacBook pro.

 

 

Two models

$1999 model 1.6 core duo, 667 mhz FSB, 512mb, 80gb SATA, 4x superdrive, X1600 ATI, 1.67ghz

 

$2499 model, 1.83ghz Core Du, 1gb, 100gb SATA

 

Ships in February

 

...........................

 

"Until all apps are universal, we are shipping a technology called Rosetta, which runs most PowerPC applications completely transparently."

 

Hmm.. this implies no Altivec support.

 

 

"We're going to transition all of our products to Intel processors through the course of this year."

 

"... see you soon", this means we should expect to see Steve, umm, sooner than WWDC '06.

Edited January 10, 2006 by bofors

[macgirl]

From http://www.macrumorslive.com/web/

10:12 am First Mac with Intel processor today.

10:12 am The iMac - built in isight camera. front row. incredible reception.

10:13 am No other desktop PC can match it.

10:14 am Same sizes. 17", 20". Same design. Same features (isight, front row, apple remote), Same price. What's different.

10:14 am Intel Processor. 2-3x faster than the iMac G5.

10:14 am Intel Core Duo. an amazing chip.

10:15 am Two cores. each one faster than the G5.

10:16 am showing benchmarks. overall 2-3x faster.

10:16 am 10.4.4 is entirely native on Intel processor. All the applications included are universal and native on Intel.

10:17 am iLife 06 and iWork 06 are all universal binaries, and was demoing them on an Intel machine.

10:18 am Pro apps will be universal in March. Final Cut, Aperture, Pro. If you have the latest version, you can trade in your disc for a universal disc for $49.

 

--

 

10:30 am Today - MacBook Pro

10:30 am New laptop computer.

10:30 am New laptop computer.

10:31 am No more Powerbook. Intel duo Core.

10:31 am 2 processors in every Macbook pro.

10:31 am 4-5x faster.

10:32 am Fastest notebook ever.

10:32 am Hair thinner than the 17".

10:32 am 15.4inch LCD. bright as cinemas.

10:33 am iSight Camera.

10:33 am Demoing the new MacBook Pro.

10:35 am IR sensor. Apple Remote.

10:35 am New feature: New Power Adapter is magnetically held in. If yanked, comes right out.

10:37 am 5.6lbs. iSight, Front Row; $1999 1.67 Core Duo; 667 DDR bus, x1600; $2499 1.83GHz.

10:37 am Shipping in February.

10:38 am Taking orders today.

Edited January 10, 2006 by macgirl

[Guest terry]

OK, back on topic.

 

Kevin Rose was right about 10.4.4, it is being released today (at least for PPC).

 

I can't wait to see what this "MacBook" is all about, I serious hope they have added some Mighty Mouse-like features to the trackpad/button.

Yep, this guy even got the name right, "MacBook" Pro. My opinion: Sounds terrible, they should have stayed with the "Powerbook".

 

"Until all apps are universal, we are shipping a technology called Rosetta, which runs most PowerPC applications completely transparently."

 

Hmm.. this implies no Altivec support.

Huh? Isn't there Altivec support in 8F1111a already? Why should they remove it?

[macgirl]

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

[SUBMarcos]

http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/10/steve-j...2006/2#comments

 

I wonder why noone has pointed this one out before... it kept me with the latest news this time... although I checked only once in a while (i was not staring at the monitor).

 

Apparentely the Apple people found out how to keep their system "exclusive" by launching a highly overpriced product line. That will keep the average PC user off from hacking the OS.

[FunkyCatSpangky]

erm why are they still selling os x 10.4.3 then at the apple.com site ???

 

i thought that it would be 10.4.4 by now ???

 

and will the 10.4.4 that is natively running on the yonah systems work just as well on a Pentium M machine ???