What is the one true faith (or lack thereof)?

[Ouch]

In fact the only reason why christianity is the way it is today is because of constantine and the council of nicea, honestly, there were hundreds of different sects of christianity that thought different things, some of the sects didnt even believe that jesus was the son of god, but constantine (emperor of rome) picked the form of christianity that suited him best and got rid of all the rest. then at the council of nicea Arius had an argument with Athensius(or something like that). Arius said that jesus was not the same as god because there was a god before jesus, and therefore jesus was inferior to god. Athensius came up with the idea of the holy trinity, and the council of religious elders voted on it, and decided that arius's way was heresy.

Me thinks you have been reading the da vinci code and are a little confused between historical fact and dan browns fiction. Arius (an african elder) was making claims that Jesus was a created being, not God in human flesh (as was the believe of the earliest christians). In response, the bishops gathered in nicea and signed a document called the Creed of Nicea which firmly established their shared belief that Jesus was "true God from true God" i.e the complete God in human flesh. The vote was not marginal as stated in the book, rather out of more than 300 church leaders present only two refused to sign the creed.

 

Constantine did not decide the contents of the bible (this process began 150 years before he was born and concluded 30 years after he died) nor did he decide upon divinity of Jesus for the church.

[killbot1000]

Ive never read, nor seen the davinci code, I know its just fiction, all im saying is that christianity isnt as solidified as everybody thinks it is, not that its a problem, but when people take the teachings in the bible as literal fact, its kind of presumptuous because theres a history behind those stories thats underneath the surface, look at the gnostic gospels for example. I dunno, I just seems like people want to think in absolutes, as in the bible "THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE WORD OF GOD" but in reality people voted on it, took things out, added things in, and in reality it isnt really the word of god, I mean, jesus would have never wanted christians to behave the way they behave today, he would have never wanted one to slam the door in the face of mormon missionaries, or kill in the name of god, honestly...I dunno, I just think people dont question it enough, they just take whats given to them without even a thought as to how, or why they are being fed this information. And of course im talking about what ive observed, not everybody, im not trying to make a blanket statement or anything here heheh

[Ouch]

Thats a very true statement in many respects. I think people are so desparate for hope beyond their current life that they are willing to accept anything without question. That's the kind of really dangerous religious person - someone who acts purely on the basis of what they have been told without thinking it through for themselves. But it's a problem that extends beyond religion and into politics and the media - so many people just take what they are shown on TV without bothering to question the motives of the people behind it.

[killbot1000]

Yeah, I totally agree it does extend into other things, I dunno, I think that questioning something is the only way for sure the truth can come out. (if the truth is real, it can withstand a few questions) as voltaire would say, or alteast I think it was voltaire, either that or another enlightenment thinker, bah oh well, the point is that critical thinking is a very powerful tool that people really should embrace...atleast thats my opinion. I think that human society could be greatly advanced by two things, the teaching of critical thinking, and the teaching of empathy. Those two things are seriously the most important things one can teach their kids. Movements like the nazi movement happened because people didnt question the authority until it was too late. Also a person like hitler couldnt exist if he had empathy. just killbot's take on the whole morality thing.

[gwprod12]

Ouch Potato brings up a good point. Much of Science is taken on faith. The value of science is not what it tells people about the world, but the fact that anyone with the same tools can locate the same evidence and can posit a hypothesis, conduct an experiment and create a theory (or scientific proof).

[killbot1000]

Ouch Potato brings up a good point. Much of Science is taken on faith. The value of science is not what it tells people about the world, but the fact that anyone with the same tools can locate the same evidence and can posit a hypothesis, conduct an experiment and create a theory (or scientific proof).

 

 

But just because something can be tested again doesnt mean its faith. Yes scientists are usually trying to prove something, and if they do, it DOES help us understand more about our world. The retesting of the hypothesis is a way of making sure the data isnt falsified, which sometimes it is, but overtime that data gets taken out through testing again and again. I really dont see the faith here. Could somebody help me out?

[gwprod12]

You've totally misinterpreted what I said. LOL.

 

I wasnt saying that science IS faith, I was saying that instead of having faith in Science itself, people have faith in the answers that science gives.

 

Jesus freaks and Allah nuts say "Because the bible/quran say so!"

 

Secularists and Atheists say "Because the scientific record says so!"

 

Scientific fact yearns to be disproved. Scepticism == science.

 

EDIT: I believe that the theory of evolution is a pretty good one. But, there's no reason why it shouldnt be open to scrutiny. If there was real evidence that negated the theory of evolution, I'd be eager to see it.

[Ouch]

I think people try to make science and religion mutually exclusive when in fact religion is merely the extension of understanding beyond that which we can scientifically measure.

[gwprod12]

I firmly agree. Religion is the answer when reason isnt. Religion shouldnt try to answer questions that can be answered with reason, and reason shouldnt be used to answer religious questions. Thus, mutually exclusive. Though I think what you mean is that people think you cant be religious and scientificly oriented, and you can, they just focus on different aspects of thought.

[OryHara]

I dunno, I just seems like people want to think in absolutes, as in the bible "THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE WORD OF GOD"

Most people that doen't understand christianity (those who don't believe) try to make assumptions about it, and try to disprove it, and have never been able to. Many people believe differently, and feel differently about God.

 

I could research science and find some pretty dumb things in their past too. For instance, most scientists believed up untill this year, that the quantum structure of an atom could only exist in once place at the same time. That was disproven a few months ago. And my all time favorite. The world being flat.

 

"Only a Sith deals in absolute." - Obi Wan Kanobi

"Vger needs something more. A human trait. The ability to leap beyond logic." - Capt Kirk

[Hagar]

I am an animalist,

 

I believe there is a Dog..

[cyrana]

Most people that doen't understand christianity (those who don't believe) try to make assumptions about it, and try to disprove it, and have never been able to. Many people believe differently, and feel differently about God.

 

I could research science and find some pretty dumb things in their past too. For instance, most scientists believed up untill this year, that the quantum structure of an atom could only exist in once place at the same time. That was disproven a few months ago. And my all time favorite. The world being flat.

 

"Only a Sith deals in absolute." - Obi Wan Kanobi

"Vger needs something more. A human trait. The ability to leap beyond logic." - Capt Kirk

Your 1st sentence makes it sound like the only people who don't understand Christianity are those who don't believe it..which I disagree with. I'm a (ok, I was) a confirmed Anglican/Episcopalian and I've read the Bible from cover to cover a few times. But, I certainly don't consider myself Christian. Instead I call myself a deist (broad definition, I know).

 

At least science is falsifiable. Sure, what people agree on in science changes with the accumulation of knowledge (sometimes, sometimes things are gotten right, too), but nothing in religion can ever be falsifiable. It is just based on a stories told umpteen years before and passed down a myriad of times, with no way to ever be proven or disproven. On top of it, if you read any of the 'great books', you can find a lot of passages which contradict another. But, I still think the Bible is a decent allegory, and the rather basic message of Jesus was a good one.

 

Anyway, I have no idea about anything. I'll just go about my life living it the best I can. If there is no afterlife, it isn't like I'll ever know anyway.

[MacSpaces]

Religion is history based on human events.

science is history based on the creation of everything around you..

 

Both have a purpose and a meaning is like life without oxygen one cant exist without the other people should embrace both.

 

a seed cant grow without a hand and without light.

[killbot1000]

Religion is history based on human events.

science is history based on the creation of everything around you..

 

Both have a purpose and a meaning is like life without oxygen one cant exist without the other people should embrace both.

 

a seed cant grow without a hand and without light.

 

 

Yes, except...what if the history humans as were told it is incorrect. and also told a completely different story depending on what part of the world you grew up in. Science can also explain the history of humans too, we just dont like to hear our own history, atleast thats my take on it.

[OryHara]

{censored}. I had to look around for a few seconds to find the topic again. Wanted to look to the bottom where It always was.

 

I guess the re-organization is to better help us find what we are looking for though.

[cyrana]

Religion is history based on human events.

science is history based on the creation of everything around you..

 

Both have a purpose and a meaning is like life without oxygen one cant exist without the other people should embrace both.

 

a seed cant grow without a hand and without light.

None of the Judeo-Christo-Islam religions are based on real history.

[Ouch]

None of the Judeo-Christo-Islam religions are based on real history.

 

?

[munky]

The bible, as we know it today, is a heavily edited collection of works, selected and pruned by a roman forum, for a roman audience. Tell me they didnt put any kind of spin in there. Oh sure, we didnt WANT to crucify jesus..er.... the jews insisted. yeah.

[gwprod12]

The new testament amounts to an edited anthology of works written by a variety of people(s). They put in what they felt was good and discarded the rest.

[munky]

Yes. They being a bunch of romans, some 300 years after the events documented. To paraphrase an old saying - History is edited by the winners.

 

FYI, christians were widely persecuted for some centuries after the birth of Christ - it wasnt until the Emperor Constantine I legalised the religion in AD 313 in the Edict of Milan that it became widely adopted. In AD 380 it became the state religion.

[gwprod12]

I once talked to this bible thumper. He said to me that the King James version of the bible was written by god. So I said to him: It's a translation of an earlier text, and a lot of it is different. How can it be absolutely correct if it's got typos and mistranslations? His response was "It has to be absolute, because God would have stopped it from being mistranslated". "So, the bible KJ is based on is wrong?" "Yes". "What about the other translations? like Living Bible?" "They're wrong". "God didnt stop them from being wrong?" "No, God knows that the King James version is the only real version". "In the Roman Catholic Bible, there are ten commandments" "That's right.". "In King James, there are 11, and they're different. I thought there were ten commandments, not eleven." "There are ten commandments."

"What's the first one?" "Thou shalt not kill".

(the first commandment isnt thou shalt not kill, btw)

 

If english was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

 

 

On a side note... my favorite new testament passage is: "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven". I think that one's glossed over a bit too much.

[Ouch]

The bible, as we know it today, is a heavily edited collection of works, selected and pruned by a roman forum, for a roman audience. Tell me they didnt put any kind of spin in there. Oh sure, we didnt WANT to crucify jesus..er.... the jews insisted. yeah.

 

[gwprod12]

What's so rolling on the floor laughing out loud funny? There is a distinct "Pontius Pilate couldnt find his way out of a paper bag, so it had to be the Jewish Priests' fault" bent to the whole story. He's sorta put as the governor/puppet who's strings are tied to Caiaphas' fingers.

 

If I recall correctly however, Josephus, in his chronicle of that event, did indicate that Pontius Pilate bowed to the priests on that point. Though Josephus doesnt say why.

 

At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon their loyalty to him. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly they believed that he was the Messiah, concerning whom the Prophets have recounted wonders.

[killbot1000]

Im sorry, I just dont buy the whole bible thing...if anybody really researches history...its kinda obvious that its not really the word of god, but Ive found that the strongest believers dont really know the first thing about the history of their religion...just an observation. I guess thats what I get for looking into things too much...atheism hahah

[sambo60]

I find it funny that Judiasm, which is the basis for many of the religions in the poll, is not even listed in the poll. Talk about biased...