Bay of Pirates Raided - Servers Seized

[u1m2]

Chris

 

1- Apple doesn't support using OSX outside of their hardware, when/if they do support it for other hardware such as mine, you can be just in asking me how I managed to get my copy of OS X. You must remember that Apple not only sells the OS X but also supports it and a good deal of the money you pay for the OS goes to the people and the infrastructure that makes it possible for you to get support. Until it happens that I can get support for purchasing the product, your point is plain LAME. Please get a firmer grasp of the issue or shup.

 

2- About the restaurant thing, how long does it take you to understand if a meal or a movie sucks? Trailers don't mean squat with movies so they're out of the equation. I have watched some brilliant movies and the trailers sucked bad ass and vice versa. Do you find it allright that if you went to a movie and decided to leave, you aren't entitled to a refund. If you do, you are the biggest time sucker ever my friend.

 

iTunes is a great example of this, since internet is an excellent way to distribute content (legally) I don't see any reason why movie industry can not follow Apple's footsteps. Do you seriosly think they would go bankrupt if they sold movies online for 5 bucks, on the contrary they could find a whole new market full of people who would prefer downloading a legal copy of a movie instead of the illegal copy, people who otherwise wouldn't have bought the product in the first place.

 

I think that the matter is not so simple and needs some discussion to get the formula right. Also, I do not think movie industry is that hurt by internet illegal downloaders or they wouldn't be cashing in billions of dollars in profit whilst paying actors multi million dollars per movie.

 

Reduced costs of production, distribution, discounting profit of the retailer(s) etc... and we should be (in theory) enjoying quality movies for a really cheap price, who knows it might make a difference. I am quite sure that raiding and shutting down sites is any solution. When there is the will, there will always be the way.

[flash marty]

You guys (and the rest of the world) have all been duped!!!

[Takuro]

Just because something doesn't meet your full expectations doesn't mean you have the right to demand every single penny back of your purchase price. If the product fails to meet any expectations (to a high degree), then by all means, you have the right to a refund. But if you bought a game that got a rating of 9/10 in some magazine, you can't refund it if you've played the whole game through and feel it deserved a 4/10.

 

Come on we all have common sense. Don't act like you dont. You can't be so blunt as to group everything into a "full refund, or nothing" category. Depending on the situation, a consumer should be reembraced part of their money, given nothing, or given a full refund. Every situation is different.

 

As for software and music: 95% of the most popular software has a free 30-day evaluation. If a month isn't enough to decide if you like a program, then you have only yourself to blame. In the past, you did have to buy a whole album even if only 2 tracks were good, but today with the advancement of downloadable media, there's a lot more "pick and choose" types of "cafteria consumerism" by the same method that iTunes uses. You can choose to download 2/12 songs from an album.

 

People do try to lure others into buying their products. That's just their job. If you had a product, wouldn't you have to promote it at least? Nobody is shoving anything down your throat though. Using your own judgement, you can take time to evaluate things before you reach into your wallet. And this CAN be done legally. Victimising yourself under capitalism is a coward's excuse. It's not a dictatorship. It's the opposite. The end consumer gets to choose what they use their money for. How is that an injustice?

 

Crazy idea: people pirate so they don't have to pay? I'll honest (unlike most here) and admit I downloaded a lot of software that I enjoyed. In fact, I enjoyed it so much that I forgot to pay for it...

[free30]

YOUR ALL BRAIN WASHED WITH MONEY.

Set your mind free, do it for love and nothing else you'll have a better life.

 

When was the last time you charged your family for a dinner? No don't answer that. We ALL have so much and still want more that others. If I hadn't seen such riches I'd be happy being poor. One mans wealth is another poverty. And money is only a promise from your fellow man. how about a promise to care and share.

free30

[Chris Lincoln]

Chris

 

1- Apple doesn't support using OSX outside of their hardware, when/if they do support it for other hardware such as mine, you can be just in asking me how I managed to get my copy of OS X. You must remember that Apple not only sells the OS X but also supports it and a good deal of the money you pay for the OS goes to the people and the infrastructure that makes it possible for you to get support. Until it happens that I can get support for purchasing the product, your point is plain LAME. Please get a firmer grasp of the issue or shup.

 

2- About the restaurant thing, how long does it take you to understand if a meal or a movie sucks? Trailers don't mean squat with movies so they're out of the equation. I have watched some brilliant movies and the trailers sucked bad ass and vice versa. Do you find it allright that if you went to a movie and decided to leave, you aren't entitled to a refund. If you do, you are the biggest time sucker ever my friend.

 

iTunes is a great example of this, since internet is an excellent way to distribute content (legally) I don't see any reason why movie industry can not follow Apple's footsteps. Do you seriosly think they would go bankrupt if they sold movies online for 5 bucks, on the contrary they could find a whole new market full of people who would prefer downloading a legal copy of a movie instead of the illegal copy, people who otherwise wouldn't have bought the product in the first place.

 

I think that the matter is not so simple and needs some discussion to get the formula right. Also, I do not think movie industry is that hurt by internet illegal downloaders or they wouldn't be cashing in billions of dollars in profit whilst paying actors multi million dollars per movie.

 

Reduced costs of production, distribution, discounting profit of the retailer(s) etc... and we should be (in theory) enjoying quality movies for a really cheap price, who knows it might make a difference. I am quite sure that raiding and shutting down sites is any solution. When there is the will, there will always be the way.

 

 

1. I obtained my copy of x86 OS X the same way you did. I am just pointing out or asking, that if you are so concerned with purchasing content you DO enjoy, then why haven't you purchased a license from Apple to cover it? No, buying an x86 OS X copy doesn't exist, but at least you would be acknowledging Apple and giving them some money for using their creation (more about the moral of buying than whether the actual version purchased is giving you the actual right to put it on a vanilla x86 clonebox). I have a complete grasp on the issue, thanks.

 

2. Your question is different for every kind of media, industry, person, etc. Someone who is patient may consume the entire product before making such a judgment. Its my experience that movie theaters will give you money back if you've seen less than half of a movie, or that a restaurant will give you your money back if you've only eaten a little of your meal. Once you've consumed the entire product, theres no industry in the world that will give you your money back....and thats the way it is with movie, music, software, and other content....once you've either experienced the entire product, its consumed and theres nothing to refund. Once you've broken the cd case seal, the industry considers the license consumed...it would be impossible for them to allow an honor system of "oh no I didn't copy it" or "I didn't use it all the way through and want my money back so I can do it for free".....the piracy would be insane.

 

Again, this has NOTHING to do with your justifications. I agree that new distribution models would be better, and the industry is not overtly harmed by our pirating....BUT JUSTIFICATIONS DO NOT CHANGE THAT WHAT WE DO IS WRONG. We can talk about how crappy the industry is, how much it doesn't hurt anybody, how much we deserve a new distribution model and etc until we are blue in the face...but it does not change that pirating software/movies/games/whatever is WRONG....nothing will. If TPB is technically legal in their operation under Swedish law, then I hope they receive fair justice...but it does not change the wrongness of what we do.

 

All I've heard in this thread are justifications for stealing content...does anybody a good argument as to why its not wrong?

 

YOUR ALL BRAIN WASHED WITH MONEY.

Set your mind free, do it for love and nothing else you'll have a better life.

 

When was the last time you charged your family for a dinner? No don't answer that. We ALL have so much and still want more that others. If I hadn't seen such riches I'd be happy being poor. One mans wealth is another poverty. And money is only a promise from your fellow man. how about a promise to care and share.

free30

 

OMG the Age of Aquarius is upon us!

[amdprophet]

You guys (and the rest of the world) have all been duped!!!

Read the date on that, that was ages ago. TBP really was shut down, but it will be back up this week.

[Colonel]

You've been...

 

d

[amdprophet]

Hahaha. That would be a lot better if TBP wasn't actually taken down, but it's still funny.

[sambo60]

Wow what a successful prank! They even got an mpaa press release

[John the Geek]

Guys, the date is 2005.

 

So either the date is terribly ironic, or their pulling the exact same stunt, on the same day even, exactly one year later.

 

It does smell of hoax... But maybe it's the media's ironic revenge from last year?

[Colonel]

Where does it say 2005?

[u1m2]

Just because something doesn't meet your full expectations doesn't mean you have the right to demand every single penny back of your purchase price. If the product fails to meet any expectations (to a high degree), then by all means, you have the right to a refund. But if you bought a game that got a rating of 9/10 in some magazine, you can't refund it if you've played the whole game through and feel it deserved a 4/10.

 

But who determines that refund and who has got a say in determining there should be a refund in the first place. Not suckers like you and me, do we? As for games although you have a point it still does not make up for all the absolute horrible games that I have played (mind you not finished) thinking what if I had paid for this {censored}. I see myself a good judge of what is entertaining because games are for "entertainment" and they are for "MY" entertainment if I buy them, so if I think they suck, I feel entitled to ANY refund.

 

Your viewpoint is very limited (so is mine in places) and it does not balance the right of the customers and the rights of the producers. At the moment consumer rights regarding software are downright limited but we can't go around the world bribing police to carry out raids can we? Developers decide to what degree they will support their product and there is clearly no law stating your rights to support etc... as a software user. Say you bought Alias Maya for a few thousand bucks because you absolutely need their support and say their support has been awful, where does that leave you? Stop being such a sucker for corporate propaganda of the industry, think from the customers point of view for a change, think for yourself for a change.

 

Come on we all have common sense. Don't act like you dont. You can't be so blunt as to group everything into a "full refund, or nothing"

Insert Linkategory. Depending on the situation, a consumer should be reembraced part of their money, given nothing, or given a full refund. Every situation is different.

 

As for software and music: 95% of the most popular software has a free 30-day evaluation. If a month isn't enough to decide if you like a program, then you have only yourself to blame. In the past, you did have to buy a whole album even if only 2 tracks were good, but today with the advancement of downloadable media, there's a lot more "pick and choose" types of "cafteria consumerism" by the same method that iTunes uses. You can choose to download 2/12 songs from an album.

 

As for music, I already said iTunes is a great idea and now all we need is a little competition. That shows some common sense to you I hope. Movie industry is sure to follow them come the right time. For software, again I feel you just give corporations too much credit since not all software (productivity related) can be mastered in one month and therefore you can not ultimately say that this software will absolutely do what I ask from it in the future.

 

I work for an an ads company (despite being a n econometrics major) and we purchase certain licences for 3d software and it costs a small fortune. I couldn't have afforded a legal copy when I was trying to learn the software and I am 99% sure that no other students etc... are capable of dishing out a couple thousand bucks for "completely" understanding and mastering the software. There is an evaluation version but it's limited and lacks so many features that the original has. I don't think using this software back then made me a shameless pirate as I simply couldn't afford it. Now that my company makes money out of it we use legal copies.

 

As to every story you should look for both sides of the story and in this case you can't push all the blame on the consumers in this case. I don't think the industry (movie, music and software) are interested in changing the situation by trying to see the viewpoint of the consumer. They are facing something they can't fully understand and they feel threatened by it so they act instintively and ultimately thinking that shutting down websites will eliminate the problem. Unfortunately there are many consumers (suckers) who agree with them... ( wink wink )

[Colonel]

EEEK! The Pirate Bay is being cloned!!!

 

http://www.thepiratesbay.org/

 

Someone made The PirateS Bay

 

or is it the same website with a new look?

 

EDIT: These clowns want you to pay AND they want your name!

[Lkr]

thats hilarious colonels

[John the Geek]

Where does it say 2005?

 

Like, in the cutline! I'll quote it for you:

 

By Nick Farrell: Friday 03 June 2005, 09:17

 

And again, when you click the "more here" link...

 

ThePirateBay Releases Version 2.0

June 2, 2005

Thomas Mennecke

 

And then if you visit the forum where they discuss it...

 

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:25 pm

 

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:30 pm

 

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:31 pm

 

...

 

There were 60 posts, so I'm not going to quote them all.

 

So to answer your question "Where does it say 2005?"

 

Everywhere!!@_@

 

EEEK! The Pirate Bay is being cloned!!!

 

http://www.thepiratesbay.org/

 

Someone made The PirateS Bay

 

or is it the same website with a new look?

 

EDIT: These clowns want you to pay AND they want your name!

 

 

Now that is some funny sh*t. Sure, I'll give them my name and IP address.

 

As Carlos Mencia would say... "dee deedee!"

 

=)

 

EDIT: Oh and colonels1020, I'm just messing with you, in case I came off harsh. Just being silly, that's all.

 

Still, it was everywhere...

[Colonel]

Oh! That's where 2005 was.

 

The "Pirates Bay" wants you to install their software, too. Yeah, right. Like I'm stuid enough to give them my name, credit card, and IP. Then install their software onto my computer. Who knows what kind of tracking {censored} that their going to put on your system?

[OryHara]

I make no qualms about what site I'm on etc....I pirate as much as the rest of us....heck this whole forum is based on the illegal distribution of Mac OS X. Frankly, I don't really care whether you agree or not with what the media companies do with the money they earn....my point is lets just be honest with ourselves, its stealing....thats all. Because its stealing...theres not a lot of point in slamming governments who crack down on it.

 

You want to know what REAL STEALING is? Adobe charging $600 for Photoshop, and $1500 for Coldfusion. Along with the other ludacris costs that f*** 500 companys charge. THAT is stealing. It is highway robbery. And in America, under the original laws, its a crime to PRICE GOUGE. So you want to know what I think? An eye for an eye. A tooth for a tooth. And what goes around, comes around.

 

Stealing is not the same as pirating. Most people are too ignorant to understand that, and have been 'brainwashed' by the same ideas of the idiots that sell that proprietary, closed source, and in the words of Richard Stallman, UN-FREE {censored}. Brainwashed by the RIAA, and MPAA into calling it 'stealing', because that is a term they made up. In America, and all other greedy, (and if you are a christian, GREED IS A SIN) capitalist societies, the correct term is "Copyright Infrengement". In other parts of the world, free parts of the world, LIKE SWEDEN, according to the pirate POLITICAL PARTY its called FREEDOM OF INFORMATION.

 

I live in America. Im not a capitolist. Read my BIO for what I believe. I believe in the pirate party and their efforts. I have sent them donations on occation through the mail. In fact, I plan on starting a Pirate Organization here in Mississippi sometime this year.

 

Maybe I should start a political party that outlaws capitolism, charging for software, and outlaws everything that the REPUBLICAN party does. I should start a party that allows me, and my Pirate Party to send police to raid software companies that CHARGE for software.

 

The 'theft' argument is flawed. It is flawed because it is based on your BELIEF, and OPINION. Reguardless of what the law says. The law is based on some politcal party's belief. This in theory, makes the law flawed.

 

And yes, I am slamming the United States of Corporate f*** America for it. Because it is not what I believe, but what they believe. They are free to believe what they want. But when they start jailing me for what I believe, then it IS time for me to do something about it. Like START a political party AGAINST them. Against their beliefs, and start jailing THEM for their crimes.

 

Bush has commited over 750 crimes since he has been in office. Its about time someone Jailed his ass.

 

And for the record (sorry, bad pun) I totally resent the sway these recording industry-type orgs have. They should really disappear. Soon.

 

I think the pirate party should have the same power, if the **AA has this power.

If the pirate party currently has no power, then neither should the **AA.

 

4. u1m2 has a great idea. Can we start asking for a refund if a movie just really sucks 5 minutes into it?

 

I think we should. Im going to try this.

[John the Geek]

You want to know what REAL STEALING is? Adobe charging $600 for Photoshop, and $1500 for Coldfusion. Along with the other ludacris costs that f*** 500 companys charge. THAT is stealing. It is highway robbery. And in America, under the original laws, its a crime to PRICE GOUGE. So you want to know what I think? An eye for an eye. A tooth for a tooth. And what goes around, comes around.

 

Uh, no. Freedom means that since they made the software, they get to charge what they want for it. If it's too high, it doesn't sell, if it's too low it sells well but they don't make as much money. If you can't afford it, you don't buy it. You don't get to dictate what someone sells you a car for? or a house? You pay what they are willing to take or you don't buy it.

 

According to your logic you don't have the right to charge me more than say, $5 for your computer system because that's all I'm in the mood to pay right now. Sounds fair, right?

 

Stealing is not the same as pirating. Most people are too ignorant to understand that, and have been 'brainwashed' by the same ideas of the idiots that sell that proprietary, closed source, and in the words of Richard Stallman, UN-FREE {censored}. Brainwashed by the RIAA, and MPAA into calling it 'stealing', because that is a term they made up. In America, and all other greedy, (and if you are a christian, GREED IS A SIN) capitalist societies, the correct term is "Copyright Infrengement". In other parts of the world, free parts of the world, LIKE SWEDEN, according to the pirate POLITICAL PARTY its called FREEDOM OF INFORMATION.

 

No, it's called taking someone else's sh*t for free. If you take my artwork, print it up on your own media and sell it at a profit you ARE stealing from me. I don't care what you call it, since it's MY art I get to decide who can make money off of it and who can't. Your freedom does NOT apply here, as I created it. I also get to choose who can just take it. The same applies to software writers. You can't just take it because it's there.

 

Maybe I should start a political party that outlaws capitolism, charging for software, and outlaws everything that the REPUBLICAN party does.

 

I agree with the Republican thing, but charging for software is right up there with getting paid for your job.

 

Would you like to come over and landscape my yard for free? No, I don't suppose you would.

 

I should start a party that allows me, and my Pirate Party to send police to raid software companies that CHARGE for software.

 

Because damn it, other people should all be working for free!!! --- No one gets paid!!!

 

We're all starving our kids tonight and living with our moms till we're 35!!!! That will show those rich bastards who's boss!!1!

 

The 'theft' argument is flawed. It is flawed because it is based on your BELIEF, and OPINION. Reguardless of what the law says. The law is based on some politcal party's belief. This in theory, makes the law flawed.

 

Well, the good news is that "theft" laws were designed around the belief and opinion of the one's usually getting the shaft. Those laws protect me from cheap bastards like you who want to enslave my *ss for no pay.

 

They are free to believe what they want. But when they start jailing me for what I believe, then it IS time for me to do something about it.

 

You can believe what you want, but in the end if you didn't write the software, you don't have any right to decide who gets it and how. That's the bottom line.

 

Good luck with that.

[u1m2]

IMHO Adobe does not really care if ordinary people pirate their software. They can remain the market leader as long as ordinary people use Adobe software to learn all about it and to master it to perfection. If people didn't have a chance to use Adobe software for years, none of the companies could find graphics artists to hire as none of the applicants would be efficient with Photoshop etc... Instead, people would be using some opensource app and this open source app would become a serious contender for Adobe's throne since it would get developed by more people while getting more money contributed to the project by companies and individuals...

Adobe makes enough money over companies that use their software for professional purposes anyway, it ends up in their favour that ordinary people have some sort of access to Adobe software without paying because the software is only good as long as there are people to create things with it. I believe, this is also true for many other productivity software such as Maya, Dreamweaver Visual Studio etc...

[free30]

Serial number and activation code. They seem to want to keep the masses out.

And don't they have a slimmed down version for noobs like me who can't afford there high end prices?

But your right theres a benafit there for them, or do they loss on training everyone?

free30

[u1m2]

Like serial number and the activation code are the hardest to crack. They don't have a slimmed down version either, just a trial as far as I know. You should understand that if they really wanted to push it they could do a lot better with the protection of their software anyway. Since the corporations are checked routinely for pirated software Adobe doesn't have much to worry about in that front which leaves ordinary users downloading the software and applying cracks which a 10 year old is capable of doing and their business is not hurt. If they infact made it so hard to crack people would look for other solutions, if people look for other solutions they are losing potential customers and that is what would hurt their business really.

 

Also, the training is worthless anyway, you have to be working on it actually to get really good and 10 fricken hours a week is not going to cut it. How good do you think their training is btw, if you're not a retard you should learn all the basics and medium level stuff real easily anyway, all it takes is time and practice. You are saying that people who can't afford 600$ of software will pay for 1000$ training, you see something wrong with that equation?

 

Don't worry, most of us made it alive of that phase you are going through, just hang in there and you will see the light just like the rest of us did

[Chris Lincoln]

You want to know what REAL STEALING is? Adobe charging $600 for Photoshop, and $1500 for Coldfusion. Along with the other ludacris costs that f*** 500 companys charge. THAT is stealing. It is highway robbery. And in America, under the original laws, its a crime to PRICE GOUGE. So you want to know what I think? An eye for an eye. A tooth for a tooth. And what goes around, comes around.

 

Stealing is not the same as pirating. Most people are too ignorant to understand that, and have been 'brainwashed' by the same ideas of the idiots that sell that proprietary, closed source, and in the words of Richard Stallman, UN-FREE {censored}. Brainwashed by the RIAA, and MPAA into calling it 'stealing', because that is a term they made up. In America, and all other greedy, (and if you are a christian, GREED IS A SIN) capitalist societies, the correct term is "Copyright Infrengement". In other parts of the world, free parts of the world, LIKE SWEDEN, according to the pirate POLITICAL PARTY its called FREEDOM OF INFORMATION.

 

I live in America. Im not a capitolist. Read my BIO for what I believe. I believe in the pirate party and their efforts. I have sent them donations on occation through the mail. In fact, I plan on starting a Pirate Organization here in Mississippi sometime this year.

 

Maybe I should start a political party that outlaws capitolism, charging for software, and outlaws everything that the REPUBLICAN party does. I should start a party that allows me, and my Pirate Party to send police to raid software companies that CHARGE for software.

 

The 'theft' argument is flawed. It is flawed because it is based on your BELIEF, and OPINION. Reguardless of what the law says. The law is based on some politcal party's belief. This in theory, makes the law flawed.

 

And yes, I am slamming the United States of Corporate f*** America for it. Because it is not what I believe, but what they believe. They are free to believe what they want. But when they start jailing me for what I believe, then it IS time for me to do something about it. Like START a political party AGAINST them. Against their beliefs, and start jailing THEM for their crimes.

 

Bush has commited over 750 crimes since he has been in office. Its about time someone Jailed his ass.

I think the pirate party should have the same power, if the **AA has this power.

If the pirate party currently has no power, then neither should the **AA.

I think we should. Im going to try this.

 

Ladies and gentleman, we have an anarchist among us. Were you high on something when you wrote that? Why don't you go ahead and try living in a rough part of Africa or maybe in South America....I hear the drug lords there are super friendly and open to such freeing ideals. If it wasn't for evil corporate America, you would not even be sitting in front of whatever computer you are and posting on this forum, so really dude...deal with it.

 

Don't even bother bringing Bush up in this. I'm sure you were totally ok with Clinton lying to a grand jury or perhaps him attacking a free nation to stop mass murders that...*gasp* weren't really happening?

[Colonel]

Here's the Swedish news story about The Bay of Pirates with English subtitles.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9205791523962829168

 

EDIT: The Video was taken down. I'll see if I can find another one.

[OryHara]

Uh, no. Freedom means that since they made the software, they get to charge what they want for it. If it's too high, it doesn't sell, if it's too low it sells well but they don't make as much money. If you can't afford it, you don't buy it. You don't get to dictate what someone sells you a car for? or a house? You pay what they are willing to take or you don't buy it.

 

Tommorrow, the US government is going to mandate that all fords cost $500,000, and all volvos cost $100,000,000. How many people out there would drive off with cars? A lot. But they won't be paying for them.

 

And yes, there ARE laws against price gouging. Get real.

 

According to your logic you don't have the right to charge me more than say, $5 for your computer system because that's all I'm in the mood to pay right now. Sounds fair, right?

 

If I sell you my computer for $5, then I don't have a computer anymore. But If I have an unlimited stock of computers. Hell, ill GIVE you 10,000 of them. You could start a Beowulf Cluster !!! Imagine that !!!

 

If I can get another computer for $5, then kick ass. Ill do that!!!

 

No, it's called taking someone else's sh*t for free. If you take my artwork, print it up on your own media and sell it at a profit you ARE stealing from me. I don't care what you call it, since it's MY art I get to decide who can make money off of it and who can't. Your freedom does NOT apply here, as I created it. I also get to choose who can just take it. The same applies to software writers. You can't just take it because it's there. I agree with the Republican thing, but charging for software is right up there with getting paid for your job.

 

But you still have it. So I din't take it from you.

 

If you don't want people to have it, then take it off your website, and keep it on your drive so nobody can look at it. Your freedom does NOT apply when it is in the public's eye. If I see it, and it enters my mind, I will draw it, copy it, and do what I damn well wish with it. You can't tell me that I can't make a car that looks like a Honda Prelude out of scrap metal, and it be 'yours', or 'Honda's' of all things.

 

Maybe its time to find a new job?

 

Would you like to come over and landscape my yard for free? No, I don't suppose you would.

Because damn it, other people should all be working for free!!! --- No one gets paid!!!

 

I would be happy to get paid for my labor. And charge a little more than what I paid for the plants. But when Im done, you can do your neighbor's yard the SAME, EXACT way if you wish.

 

You are comparing apples with apples. Not apples and oranges.

 

We're all starving our kids tonight and living with our moms till we're 35!!!! That will show those rich bastards who's boss!!1!

 

I think you have watched the Godfather too many times.

 

Well, the good news is that "theft" laws were designed around the belief and opinion of the one's usually getting the shaft. Those laws protect me from cheap bastards like you who want to enslave my *ss for no pay.

You can believe what you want, but in the end if you didn't write the software, you don't have any right to decide who gets it and how. That's the bottom line.

 

Good luck with that.

 

The law should be there to protect me from terrororist organizations like the RIAA, and from nazi BSA loving bastards like you, that wish to raid people's homes over stuff that you don't loose a f***ing dime over.

 

Again. You have missed the entire point, and your set ways have driven your entire post, and left it open for interpretation.

 

I did write the software. And produced the Music. Go grab a copy. For I have an ulimited amount. You are free to use the Pheonix I made in photoshop as well. Do with it what you wish, my sites have many graphics, and they are all there for you, and anyone else who wishes to use them.

 

http://www.linuxgod.net/~jd/

 

Don't even bother bringing Bush up in this. I'm sure you were totally ok with Clinton lying to a grand jury or perhaps him attacking a free nation to stop mass murders that...*gasp* weren't really happening?

 

I din't vote for clinton. I voted for Ralph Nader.

[Colonel]

Let's try to stay on topic, people. Remember, this is about the Bay of Pirates, not politics.