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Do you belive in Jesus


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DO you belive in Jesus  

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  1. 1. so?

    • Yes
      101
    • No
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There's a guy named Jesús who works at my local GameStop. Believe me. He's very real. I vote "yes."

 

But in all seriousness, I do believe in Jesus Christ. If people don't want to, they have the right to. I don't think you have to hinge so much on details. The message is more important than bickering over historical details. "Love your neighbors and treat them as you would like to be treated." It doesn't get much clearer and truer than that.

 

When I pray at night, I pray to "God." I don't pray using the name "Jesus" very often. Since Jesus and God are basically synonymous for me, since I believe they are one and the same, this isn't much of a problem. If Jesus is just the physical incarnation of God, they it should be fine. Logical (from my religious perspective), right?

 

On the issue of God "proving" himself and "showing off:" There's a difference between clearly communicating authority and "showing off." A king, for example, can enforce his rules justly and make it known throughout the land that he's in power. He doesn't necessarily have to go crazy and call for innumerable executions just to assert his power. God is the same way on a higher level. He's proven himself to us, but he isn't exactly going to bark and roll over for us if we snap our fingers. He isn't a magician who entertains us. According to my belief, satan once asked Jesus to jump off a high place and so that angles could catch him before he fell, and in return satan would bow before him. Jesus told satan not to tempt him in such a way that the power of God would be used the assertion of pride (showing off.)

 

Believe me, miracles still happen. There's proof of God in everyday life. But don't be surprised when your prayers to win the lottery go unanswered or your prayer for "Hawaiian-punch rain" go ungranted. That's something entirely different. You've got to be reasonable.

 

As Forest Gump once said, "and that's all I've got to say about that."

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yes, and the sad part is, they hate each other for it

in the u.s., many protestants persecuted catholics and lutherans

 

thats not the only example, however

i find it odd that different sects of christianity would persecute each other

orthodox jews dont persecute reformed jews (well, they make fun of us, jokingly, but they dont kill us)

 

Uhm, I have no idea where you get your info, but I don't believe that Catholics and Lutherans were ever persecuted in the United States. The majority of Religious persecution occured during and after the Reformation, and throughout the Enlightenment. Different sects are at odds against eachother for the same reason different people are at odds between eachother, they believe in different things. Plus, the differences between the sects of Christianity, and the differences between Orthodox or Reformed Jews are much larger. But I don't believe people have actually killed for them in the United States.

 

I've never met a single Christian who was anything more than a ignorant bigot with a heart of lead.

 

So ironic, you call Christians ignorant yet you make a judgement about a group of millions of people based on the jerks you've met? Pure Genius. That's like me calling all Athiests homosexual, anti-religious, lefty freaks just because that's the only type I've ever met. But I guess that's the difference between us, I think and you don't... :D . JK

 

Interesting point. If no one had ever told you about God or Jesus, would you still believe in them? Are they that obvious?

 

I know that question wasn't aimed directly at me, but I'll answer it anyway. Personally, I would still, whether I'd had the belief beaten into me or not. I personally cannot picture or imagine in any way how this earth that we live upon could have naturally been created. As much as Evolution, the Big Bang, and so many other scientific advances have begun to give Nature the hand in all of this, I simply cannot see how Nature could create itself to be so perfect, and in so much balance. Of course, that's just my perspective, which is naturally biased in some way.

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back on topic (u guys need to get a room)

jesus had great teachings, but it was just a bad idea to make him a holy, immortal, prophet

he was human, and cant we just live with that?

are they going to make a religion about gandhi, or martin luther king, or abraham lincoln? no, obviously, so why make one about jesus christ?

 

Because Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., and Abraham Lincoln were all amazing people whom helped make the world it place today, but they weren't preaching a religion like Jesus Christ. Marting Luther King Junior wanted equality among all. Not all to love God. "A bad idea to make him a prophet" Stating "He was Human." is literally tackling people with your beliefs. I'd appreciate it if you said "I believe he was human, not a prophet." not stating it as if it was fact, which in my opinion it is not.

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Because Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., and Abraham Lincoln were all amazing people whom helped make the world it place today, but they weren't preaching a religion like Jesus Christ. Marting Luther King Junior wanted equality among all. Not all to love God. "A bad idea to make him a prophet" Stating "He was Human." is literally tackling people with your beliefs. I'd appreciate it if you said "I believe he was human, not a prophet." not stating it as if it was fact, which in my opinion it is not.

 

To add to this, HE WAS NOT IMMORTAL! AHEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how would he be immortal if he freaking DIED on the cross! look it up. actually i will for you. Immortal: not liable or subject to death. And you should put you believe.

 

Whats so wrong with the christian religion? a religion thats sets Incredibly High standards for people? Without it, i bet you this world would be in total shambles, not much charity, no point to life for many, MANY MANY questions unanswered all leading to suicide, murders, rapes, because theyll just be like Whats the worst thing that will happen!

 

Indeed many so called (christians) do nothing but believe in god and jesus, not follow their teachings, leading to a very bad impression!

 

His point in creating this life was not to cause billions on billions to suffer eternally, there was a great war and all that so Satan and God both went seperate ways, good and evil. PLEASE correct me if im wrong but i think it was said that Satan only wanted perfect spirits or something and that others will be slaves or something (sorry i need to refresh the bible.) But God wanted all to be able to get to the cellestial kingdom. So there was a war and after a while Satan lost or surrendered or something, and God cast him off to outer darkness and his followers went with him. Now comes the part many of you are getting wrong, Earth was not meant for a pleasure of seeing torment on earth but instead a test. A test to see if you are worthy, if you fall under satans ways you may go to outer darkness. If you go the rightous path you will go to heaven.

So that his he cannot come (i think it was so he couldnt do phisical damage to people or so that he wouldnt destroy the earth or something. he takes away satans body, which only lets him come in spirit to earth. Tempting people to do evil and come his way, once he finds your weakness he will grab hold and you may fall to his clutches, this is part of the test. All of the evil in the world is part of this test, for example, Adam and Eve, Adam was told not to partake of the fruit of a certain tree, and he told his wife Eve. But satan comes and convinces Eve to do it, she tastes it and thinks its the most tasteful fruit ever so he tells adam to, and he does. When God finds out he punishes them by putting a curse on them and all their children, a curse that gives them untold knowledge, they now know they are naked and clothe themeselves. the rest i would need to refresh on. But i think you get my point.

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Interesting point. If no one had ever told you about God or Jesus, would you still believe in them? Are they that obvious?

By that logic, nobody would believe in God. If people only believe in God by being taught about the concept, then nobody would have had any inclination to believe in God in the first place, and so there would be nobody to spread this concept. This is what they call a "self defeating" statement. It's the "chicken vs. the egg" scenario, sort of.

 

Let's break this down simply: Everybody has a natural tendency to wonder. It's human nature. We're all members of humanity. As each member comes to realizations, they share with the other members. It's like language. A primitive man didn't suddenly start speaking French or English 1 million years ago. Language is the result of a collaboration of many people over many many years. However, even if somebody was shut out from society since birth, they would still have the basics of natural instinctual communications. If they were raised by wolves, they would understand what an angry growl meant. However, this communication isn't as complex as English or French. In the same sense, many people would have a natural instinctual sense of an ultimate creator. Through the collaboration of many ideas from many people, this concept, like communication, has grown more complex. Just as communication branched off to the many languages of today, the belief in a "creator" has branched off to the different religions we have today.

 

So in a nutshell: Yes people would believe in God even if they weren't told off-handedly by anybody else, but it wouldn't necessarily encompass the details of any common modern-day belief systems.

 

Now GW, if you want to offer a rebuttal, I think more than a terse reply is needed to suffice. :(

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You assume the afterlife does exist. If it doesnt, you wasted your entire life in the persuit of something unattainable.
This is a question which applies to all religions and so i will attempt to answer it even though wildcat69410 did a wonderful job of explaining it. If there is no afterlife and I’m dead then guess what I’m dead, and I won't have the brain activity needed to worry about how I wasted my life away in the path of a non existing God. So it makes no difference in the end as your just dust.

 

But if there is a God and I don't follow his teachings. Well when I die then I’m completely at a loss (unless God forgives) and I would have wished I had followed his teaching but it's too late now and I’m being taken to hell.

 

However if I followed God's teachings then sure it was hard but I’m now being taken to heaven.

 

So out of these options it's the easiest to not do anything and wait and see what happens when you die but clearly the brightest thing to do is follow Gods teachings.

 

The bible is full of contradictions
I hear you loud and clear. I really don't get this one. Would I study for my final using a text book which I know has contradictions in it? Ummm, NO. So why do so many?

 

^omg i'm gonna send you a virus for your sig
LOL. I'm curious. What was the sig, or do I not want to know?

 

jesus had great teachings, but it was just a bad idea to make him a holy, immortal, prophet

he was human, and cant we just live with that?

are they going to make a religion about gandhi, or martin luther king, or abraham lincoln? no, obviously, so why make one about jesus christ?

I'm sorry but what is all of this? You're arguing that Jesus was just a 'great' man and that’s it without any serious proof. OMG as a Jew do you know that with the same evidence the same can be said about Moses (and all other prophets) too. Maybe he was just a great teacher too who got elevated to a prophet status.

 

Yes he tried, multiple times throughout the Bible, even sending his Son down to atone for our Sins
I'm no Bible expert but I’ve read enough of it to know that it is extremely uncertain as to whether Jesus is meant to be the Son of God (as some follow) or God himself (as others follow). In the bible Jesus uses both terms to refer to himself several times. This once again brings up the major point of if they couldn't even get this right, then what's the point in following a book which can't get basic points across. It's like trying to learn English and getting a book which will help your learn the alphabets and then reading A for Banana.
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Oh didnt see that post. Yea, if there wasnt an afterlife, atleast i lived a clean life with good moral values and ethics with a kind heart and good role models. if there is and i didnt follow, id be pretty hard on myself and see what a absolutely better life i would have had and then had an even better afterlife, but i was to naive to think that there was a big possibility.

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Who really cares? The fact of whether or not he existed is not relavent. Personally I consider myself an agnostic spiritualist. I don't recognize the existance or non-existance of 'god' nor do I adhear to any religious doctrines but I do believe in being spiritual. No matter who you believe in and your religious text of choice it's truely inconsiquential provided you practice your religion without trying to force it's opinions, doctrines or beliefs on others and you go about living your life as a good person. Obviously the term 'good' is open but I think you understand what I mean

...

 

Just a side note that demonstrates the religious intolerance of the southeast of the US...I work at a hospital and being the holiday season there are posters on the walls of the elevators that simply state holiday wishes to all. A nice non-denominational seasons greetings that just said 'happy holidays'. In almost every elevator some {censored} has scratched that out and replaced it with 'happy xmas', others have gone so far as to scratch out xmas and replace it with christmas saying they shouldn't take the 'christ' out of christmas.

 

just my 2 cents...

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This is my belief (Catholic). You don't have to read this, but if you're confused about the whole "God" vs "Son" thing, feel free to read this:

 

Jesus is God in the sense that the essence of God ran through his blood. He's the son of God in the sense that he represents the unification of the spiritual and material, the unification of worldly and unworldly, of God and man. The word "son" is used to infer the "product" or "marriage" of two different elements. Just as strongly as he was God, he was equally as strongly human. But just because of this, we don't classify him as "sub-God" or anything like that.

 

Catholics believe God is present in three ways: God (the father), God (the son / Jesus ), and the Holy Spirit. All three are, in essence, God. I'm not saying they're "powered by God" or "God's messengers / profits," I'm saying they are God. God can be omni-present. He's universal.

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Thats an interpretation issue, Im a type of christian and instead of them being god because his blood runs through there veins, we believe that jesus is in a direct meaning the son, and that the holy spirit (refered to as holy ghost for children so they get hes like invisible) is a messenger, probably why you put "I'm not saying they're "powered by God" or "God's messengers / profits," just saying.

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Aceplayer, I want to comment on your explanation of if there isn't an afterlife and if there is. First off, I respect your opinion. A little background...I'm stuck in the bible belt so I hear alot about the bible was written by man or god created man and therefore wrote the bible, etc etc etc... I'm not comparing your logic to that but using a similar logic to this explanation: god created free will and the ability to choose whether or not a person wants to practice a religion and dedicate ones life to it's teachings. If he didn't create it, why do I have it? I have taken that ability to freely choose not to participate or believe in any religion or it's doctrines although I consider myself a good, spiritual person. Are you suggesting god is vengeful and will strike me down at the pearly gates because I've taken the free will he's given me and chosen not to believe in him/her? What are god's teachings to you?

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If you are good and righteoues, you wont necessarilly get striken down at the pearly gates because you didnt chose the right religion, but rather if your wicked you might. The free will was created as part of the test of your spirit to see if you are sincerely pure.

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I laughed out loud at your post Takuro. The logic makes some sense, of course. If no one told you because no one told the person who would have told you... infinite regression... then no one would know about God. Makes perfect sense. Except that all it takes is one person who can convince two other people ... infinite progression... before everyone believes it. Children believe tend to believe what their parents teach them. So, if one human being, who was overly gullible had two children and told them about what he'd heard, and they tell their two children, and they tell their two children, and they each tell their two children, etc and so forth... you end up with billions of people believing in a load of bologna.

 

That's not to say that that is what happened. Maybe the first person wasnt gullible, and saw a genuine miracle. But why do you believe so voraciously what no one has seen in thousands of years?

 

Again, I'll ask. A god should be so self-evident that even if you were an orphan on a desert island, you would know of his existence. So, if you werent taught by someone else... would you know?

 

EDIT: I love the free-will argument, because I have a different slant than most people.

 

In the garden of eden, God created all manner of plants and beasts. He said to his beasts "Do not eat of the fruit in the center of the garden!". Eve did, and tricked Adam into doing the same. What does that prove? That Eve committed some dastardly sin, or that Eve was capable of the sort of free will necessary to defy God's command? I think it was a test, to see if anyone could do it. Eve did. If you'll read Genesis in depth, you'll notice that there is no reference to any sort of free will before the expulsion, because until Eve did what she did, there was no free will.

 

Gameguy: depending on what sort of Christian you are, you can have a different emphasis on things. For instance, catholic dogma preaches good works as well as belief, whereas most protestant dogma preaches belief only as the way to heaven.

 

Back to what I was saying: If any god would call hitler great because he believed, and me bad because I dont, is no sort of god. I refuse to believe that by simply not believing, I am dooming myself to hellfire. But I imagine, in that case, that Satan is better conversation anyways.

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how can we choose to believe that an obscure (and almost impossible) probability wins over the fact that there is a being that created us?

 

i don't believe that it's probability that we exist. I just think that it's something far more complicated, that cannot be explained in this life. it's like trying to explain to the simpsons what 3 dimensional means. they could not comprehend it in a 2d world.

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Takuro and gameguy132 I just want to make sure that I explain that I absolutely respect each of your beliefs as sometimes I can get carried away and make it seem as though I’m coming off as offensive. If I do, just let me know.

 

Ok now moving on.

Takuro, I understand that Catholics see Jesus as God in the flesh and believe in the trinity. Now my issue arises with the fact that there are many many passages to suggest that Jesus is NOT God. I as a catholic would just find it hard to ignore them as they are contained in my holy book.

Some quotes are:

John 5:30, "I can of mine own self do nothing"

Mark 12:29, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

John 8:28, "My Father is greater than I"

John 14:28, "The Lord our Lord is one Lord"

 

These it seems show that Jesus could not be God. Then how is it possible to treat him as one. Also to be honest the whole idea of God sending himself down to be born through Mary and go through childhood and everything just seems a little unlikely (this is just my opinion). What happens if the toddler God tripped over and hurt his knee and started crying. Do you go to him and kiss it better or say "it's God. He needs no help from us mortals"?

___________________________ X ___________________________

 

gameguy132, God in the old and new testament calls almost everyone his son. So how many sons does he have?

Exodus 4:22, "And thou (Moses) shalt say unto Pharaoh, thus saith the Lord, Israel (Jacob) is my son, even my first born"

Jeremiah 31:9, "I am father to Israel and Ephraim is my firstborn" --- (So who's the first born? Israel or Ephraim?)

Samuel 7:13-14, "He (Solomon) shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father and he shall be my son..."...

...

 

So what's the deal here too? How can God have so many sons but yet none of them are treated in any similar manner. If they are all Gods sons then surely then deserve something more than they are given at the moment.

___________________________ X ___________________________

 

kernalzero, interesting comment and I appreciate the manner to which you approach it. I have a few things to say but will save it to when I wake up. You used to live in the UK and so might know what time it is and that I’m nuts to be awake.

 

PS: For some freaky reason my Media Player ( :D yes windows) on random playlist is playing "Killers - When you were young", at the moment just as I’m ending this post. The odd thing about that song is it has the lyrics "He doesn't look a think like Jesusssss". LOL. Some timing or what.

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As you know, I'm not religious, so, to address the point about the first born son: In the bible, the first born son is the natural heir to everything of the father's, including the father's power. So, to say that Moses/Ephraim/Solomon is his first-born son, it is implied that they are the heir to his greatness. Because obviously God is eternal, his son will never live long enough to inherit, so he passes his aegis from generation to generation. That's the logic of it. One might also notice that only the important folks, who, while stemming from Israel originally, are nonetheless of collateral descent, and unlikely to be a direct male descendant, the idea that so and so is literally God's son doesnt make sense. Jesus, likewise, is God's firstborn son. Read above. No intent was to be suggested that Jesus' father was God himself, at least no more than anyone else's, but that Jesus was the rightful heir to God's greatness. If you are of the mind that every function of the universe is god's will, then God is the direct progenitor of all children.

 

Does this answer your question?

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John 5:30, "I can of mine own self do nothing"

Mark 12:29, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

John 8:28, "My Father is greater than I"

John 14:28, "The Lord our Lord is one Lord"

 

Foreword: Again, nobody has to read this if they really don't want to. This is just for some insight to try to get a sense of how my religion views things. It's purely for the sake of knowledge and understanding. I believe people should always listen to eachothers views and see where they're coming from, defend each other's rights to believe in what they do, but they don't necessarily have to agree. Here it goes:

 

1st quote: The full quote is "I cannot of myself do any thing. As I hear, so I judge. And my judgment is just: because I seek not my own will but the will of him that sent me." Jesus was both human and God. If he was to depart with the God-side and give into purely the human-side, he could accomplish nothing. His judgement is also only good if he seeks the will of God rather than human will. That's the catch: since God embodied himself in human form, the human element made God suseptible to human desires like avarice, lust, etc. Although it sounds wierd, without this, God wouldn't have been truly among us as a real human, would he? If these human elements were left out, he'd be 80% God and 20% human. No. It's 50/50. Jesus wasn't perfect, although you won't hear most people admit it. He did once show immense anger at a temple that was being used as a gambling place. That story is there to remind us of his humanity.

 

2nd quote: Again, this has to do with the fact that he was part human. The human part of him was filled with doubt and fear at what was to come: his crucifixion. Although it seems weird to have a conversation with yourself (since he is God), it symbollically shows how the human side of himself made him lose sight of himself. I'm sure you've once felt totally estranged from yourself, wondering why you're doing something in the first place.

 

3rd quote: He's referring to God "the Father." Just because Jesus was present on Earth didn't mean God no longer presided in heaven. God can be at multiple places, at multiple times. You can't limit your thought to using worldy standards of what God's capable of. Some of these things are beyond our comprehension. But anyway, back on topic: he's basically saying that God, in the purely spiritual non-human, non-phyisical form, is greater than he. Jesus was God incarnate in a human body with human flaws. God, unlike Jesus, was not limited to a human body, which also obviously limits him as far as where he can be at any given time, among countless other things. Jesus couldn't decide to fly around the Earth 5x in 3 seconds, launch lightening bolts, and fly instantly to other planets or something like that. He had to reasonably stay within the confines of humanity to walk among men and be one with them on their level.

 

4th quote: Jesus never said he was a seperate God. Since he said he was God, and the Holy Trinity is God also, there's no contradiction. Christians don't believe in 3 different Gods. We believe in one God acting out in 3 different ways. We have Jesus so that God can interact with us on our level, the human level, without seeming immensely mysterious to us. We have the Holy Spirit to guide the human spirit within us all. All three lead to, and are, the same God.

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