Jump to content

Software Piracy


  • Please log in to reply
286 replies to this topic

#201
methamp

methamp

    Mac OS X Specialist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 275 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cupertino
  • Interests:BOFH
Piracy doesn't really hurt the bottom line of the multi-million-dollar software company. Let's face it, sure there are a lot of people who download warez, illegal torrents, etc., but these are mostly people who would never buy your software to begin with -- broke ass students and extremely small businesses just trying to make a dollar.

It's a lot different when a "must have" application comes from a small 3-man software operation who's entire bottom line is being eaten up because their May release of their only software title is featured on the bay, top sites, etc.

When the likes of Adobe and Apple can prove we can really afford the products we steal, then we'll talk. I don't know about you, but can you guys building Quad Core OS X whiteboxes afford $7,000+ for that same computer? That's a really expensive video game console...

#202
Software Updater

Software Updater

    Apparently someone likes me...

  • Donators
  • 529 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:http://www.apple.com/downloads/
Well heres something to {censored} yourself about.

CARLY WEEKS
May 26, 2008
http://www.theglobea....Story/National


The way Canadians use the Internet and technology - from downloading music to buying new cellphones - could face unprecedented restrictions under new federal policies that critics say are being decided behind closed doors.

The Conservative government has been involved in international talks in recent months to develop an international anti-counterfeiting strategy to reduce Internet piracy and the flow of counterfeit goods. But critics say that instead of cracking down on rogue Internet users heavily involved in illegal file sharing, the agreement seems poised to dramatically increase the government's ability to police the activities of Canadians, even when they legally purchase music files, DVDs and electronic equipment such as cellphones and personal video recorders.

"This is an attempt here to create a very broad umbrella that strikes at the very heart of every day activities for millions of Canadians," said Michael Geist, law professor at the University of Ottawa and Canada Research Chair of Internet and e-commerce law.

The issue is gaining significant momentum after a discussion paper on the anti-counterfeiting strategy that purportedly originated with the U.S. government was leaked on the Internet a few days ago. One of the most contentious proposals is to "encourage" Internet service providers to monitor the online activities of their customers and report activity that may infringe copyright law - a move that amounts to spying and could undermine the privacy of Canadians, Prof. Geist said.

The changes may also give border guards the authority to search laptops and personal music recorders to look for any illegally obtained material.

The controversy is part of a larger debate over protection of intellectual property and comes as the federal government prepares to table proposed changes to Canada's copyright law. Many privacy and consumer advocates fear the new rules will be unfairly restrictive and favour the movie, television and music industries over individuals.

The changes could place significant limits on the ability of Canadians to use music or movie files, and may even make it an offence to purchase DVDs, cellphones or digital video recorders in the United States and other foreign countries for use here, Prof. Geist said.

"It threatens to truly reshape the way the Internet functions," he said, adding that the consultation period on the new anti-counterfeiting strategy was too short and didn't allow for proper input.

However, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce said the issues are much broader than music file sharing, and that Canada's economy is suffering because of lax intellectual property laws.

"On a whole, Canada really needs to keep up with the world to do better on the protection of intellectual property, to keep jobs in the knowledge-based economy," said Chris Gray, a policy analyst at the chamber. "It's not restricting people buying and using the music or the movies, it's making sure it's not copied a million times without proper credit given to the actors or the people who are making the material."

The chamber will announce today the creation of the Canadian Intellectual Property Council, a coalition of businesses demanding stronger intellectual property protection.

Industry Minister Jim Prentice declined to comment on the issue yesterday.

"We would be glad to talk about copyright when we have a bill to talk about," Bill Rodgers, the minister's director of communications, said in an e-mail.



#203
Deleted

Deleted

    InsanelyMac Protégé

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 25 posts
This will never pass in the house. Truth is the Conservative government is just hanging on and the opposition would love to further paint Harper as a control freak in the eyes of Canadians. I would bet there will be a vote of non confidence (which would bring the government down and spring an election) before this even makes it to the house anyways.

If they somehow did circumvent the house and tried to pass something similar the court would strike it down and law suits would ensue.

#204
Software Updater

Software Updater

    Apparently someone likes me...

  • Donators
  • 529 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:http://www.apple.com/downloads/
It includes a multitude of countries. Including, The United States and The United Kingdom. It isn't just a Canadian thing. In my opinion it is a violation of privacy but whatever.

#205
Deleted

Deleted

    InsanelyMac Protégé

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 25 posts
Oh you're right but the quote was about Canada directly so I commented on it -_- Unfortunately there are those that report 'talks' in a way that would appear that 'this is going to happen' when it really couldn't be further from the truth. With a minority government on the brink of failure such a bill may never even get read in the house let alone put up for debate.

Granted there would be nothing to protect Canadians from our American counterparts should you adopt such an act, and we all know how good your privacy laws are eh -_-

#206
Software Updater

Software Updater

    Apparently someone likes me...

  • Donators
  • 529 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:http://www.apple.com/downloads/
Please don't get me started on the egotistical bull {censored} that goes on here.

#207
Deleted

Deleted

    InsanelyMac Protégé

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 25 posts
Haha, fair enough but there is a double edged sword in all this. You want to protect the individual but you also want to protect the creator. Unfortunately they are on polar opposites of the spectrum and leaning to one side or the other will alienate one or the other.

Personal property should be given the same rights as any other property in terms of search protocol regardless if it houses data or not. I think the real debate should be over the ISP's as they are largely the gateway for most to the internet. Having proper methods of detection at the root level while providing privacy for the end user will be more effective, and palatable to the caucus's, than random search and seizure. The only big issue is where to draw the line between one's activities raising flags and filtering through random packets to find a potentiality illegal download.

#208
Chris Mills

Chris Mills

    InsanelyMac Geek

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 109 posts

Lets stop all this Histrionic talk of STEALING. Thats a child's mentality.

To steal is to criminally deprive some one of their property. Piracy is COPYING not STEALING. That doesn't make it legal, but more ethical. When you take a phograph of someone you are you are not stealing their soul.

Its everyone personal decision how to behave. It's a very complicated and murky subject, much more than many people will admit.

I am much more familiar with these issues in the music industry. Exactly the same right v wrong arguement is given there, but in reality it is far from black&white.

3 examples:
1) I have an extensive LP collection. As far as the music industry is concerned I only have the rights to use that music in LP form from that specific disc. I cannot accept that, I refuse to pay again for the rights for a remastered version of the original recording that I already own. Similarly if my LP becomes damaged I should be entitled to a discounted replacement copy as I have already paid for the rights.
2) I have always bought Sony CD-R Audio blanks, these have a pre-arranged artist rights payment paid in full at the time of purchase. So how can it be illegal to burn a new music CD from it when I have already paid?
3) I keep all my CD's in the garage. If I stream it over the internet or download an MP3 of it because I cant be bothered to root through the garage how is that illegal, I have already paid in full for the rights.

Again from the music industry, it is often argued that illegal downloads take away profits from aspiring artists and music companies. Research has shown this to be largely untrue, the people who download for free are different people from the ones who buy. That is -they will never pay for a copy under any circumstances. So by dowloading illegaly all they are doing is increasing the profile of the band involved.

This is very relevant to osx86. I do not beleive in that Apple are bothered in any way by it, so long as it is not on a commercial basis (read Open Computer), or they would have moved against it. osx86 is increasing the size of the OSX market. In the words of another poster's thread it is a "gateway drug" to osx for a lot of people. Most people do not have the patience or inclination to stick with osx86. They use it as a way to try osx without shelling out in full. Thats why I tried it.

my exact words were "I am not going to fork over $800 just to see whether I like it or not". I do like it, now I want to buy a real mac.

Congratulations Mr.Jobs, you have another customer & some more money -without any effort reqd.

As I have said to a lot of bands who were whining: "we will never get established/make any money now our recording is avialable on the interent for free!" That is exacltly how you DO make money and get established. Unless you can sign a deal with a big mover&shaker to establish your profile for you.

Incidentally -to those who are worried about the registration during install issue, have you tried switching off your router whilst you install? thats what I did -it worked



OK Lets take these points one by one.

Piracy IS theft. You are depriving the rightful owner of the software (the company that released it) of their money. You have effectively stolen their money.

Your music industry points next.

1. In the UK you may now make one copy of music you have purchased in any format you like. So you own music on CD... It is LEGAL to rip it onto your computer. It is then ILLEGAL to put it on your MP3 player unless you delete the copy on the computer.

2. In this case it would be legal. You have paid for the rights to burn the music.

3. Streaming it is legal as the broadcaster has paid for the broadcasting rights. If they haven't then the broadcaster is at fault, not you! However downloading from peer to peer networks is not legal as other people can take the music from your hard disk as you download it and they may not have the rights to that music.

OSX86 is one of those weird issues.

Some users will buy their copy of OS X legally (I have) but choose to install it on a PC. This is not piracy but is a breach of the EULA of the software. Here no criminal offence has been committed and the matter is a civil one. To go after these users would be suicidal for Apple. The hack to get this working (EFI) is done on an open source part of the software (so again no laws broken)

There are however torrent versions of OSX86. This is pirated software and should people get caught, then a criminal offence has been committed. If he wants, Steve Jobs could get these people slung in jail... (MS does just that!).

#209
Metuas

Metuas

    InsanelyMac Protégé

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
I have a legality question. If I have bought a computer (let's say off ebay) that comes preinstalled with software (MS Office 2004, maybe) is it legal to transfer that software onto a new computer? My guess is no. If one downloads a legal trial, and sees a serial number online, free for all to see, is that illegal?

#210
John the Geek

John the Geek

    When the going gets geeky...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 610 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana
  • Interests:Painting, animation, photography, Macs.

I have a legality question.


I have a legality answer:

If I have bought a computer (let's say off ebay) that comes preinstalled with software (MS Office 2004, maybe)


This is not legal. They do not have the rights to preinstall software on the machine. They can only ship it legally with the software that it came with. Nothing more. So if it came with OS 9, and they sell it to you with 10.5, it's not legal.

Now if the auction comes with all original software discs and licenses for that software, then it's ok. Provided each item is separate, and no longer installed anywhere else, including the machine you are buying. (Software must be uninstalled from ALL computers before a license can be transfered legally.)

is it legal to transfer that software onto a new computer? My guess is no.


Since it seems that you never actually bought the license, I'd have to say the answer is of course, no. Not legal.

If one downloads a legal trial, and sees a serial number online, free for all to see, is that illegal?


Did you pay for the serial number? If not, it's still illegal. Just because someone shares their serial number with the world doesn't give others a valid license to use it.

-John

#211
vaporATX

vaporATX

    InsanelyMac Blowhard

  • Donators
  • 898 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Orleans, LA
What if I buy a piece of software and the flaky activation scheme fails and loses me an account worth many billions of dollars. Can I legally sue the bejesus out of the software company? If the company goes bankrupt and the greedy CEO flies off in his Gulfstream with the employees pension money can I molt down the gold fixtures in his 50 room Woodside mansion, garnish his 22 year old trophy wife's 30 carat blood diamond necklace, and sell off the slave labor staffed packaging facility in Malaysia to recoup the money awarded to me in the settlement?

#212
John the Geek

John the Geek

    When the going gets geeky...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 610 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana
  • Interests:Painting, animation, photography, Macs.

What if I buy a piece of software and the flaky activation scheme fails and loses me an account worth many billions of dollars. Can I legally sue the bejesus out of the software company?


According to every license agreement in existence, no. You use the software at your own risk, unless you can prove they were being malicious and meant to harm you. No settlement for you. Sorry.


If the company goes bankrupt and the greedy CEO flies off in his Gulfstream with the employees pension money can I molt down the gold fixtures in his 50 room Woodside mansion, garnish his 22 year old trophy wife's 30 carat blood diamond necklace, and sell off the slave labor staffed packaging facility in Malaysia to recoup the money awarded to me in the settlement?


As someone who just returned from Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference, I can safely say you have a very flawed perception of about 95% of software development companies.

#213
vaporATX

vaporATX

    InsanelyMac Blowhard

  • Donators
  • 898 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Orleans, LA
Sorry, I must have been thinking about Microsoft.

#214
John the Geek

John the Geek

    When the going gets geeky...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 610 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana
  • Interests:Painting, animation, photography, Macs.

Sorry, I must have been thinking about Microsoft.


Or AutoDesk ... You don't need to look very far to see companies who don't really care about their customer base.

#215
vaporATX

vaporATX

    InsanelyMac Blowhard

  • Donators
  • 898 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Orleans, LA
Does Autodesk still use those annoying dongles? (if they don't that question will date me a bit...heh)

#216
metalmaniac

metalmaniac

    InsanelyMac Protégé

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 65 posts
If its a good product thats worth it, ill buy it. If its {censored} ill avoid and wont care. If its alright theres probably an open source alternative.
Chances if its software you actually want, then someones put time into it.
Ok MS office, who cares, they got enough money, but what about small companies? I support them because someone just like me has probably spent time and money to make it an im just saying {censored} you. It's some peoples livelihoods.

#217
foxelement

foxelement

    InsanelyMac Protégé

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Besides the Panama Canal
I wont ever buy music with DRM. If I buy it's my right to use it as I wish. I'm not paying 1dollar to rent one song for 10 years until you notice that DRM sucks and take your "validation" servers down. Thats downright stealing.

On the case of software, there's no way that you're going to stop piracy on third world countries(in my case, I'm in Panama.). When the average family earns less than 1000USD, there's no way that you can force them to spend 300 bucks on an operating system and 200 more on office, that is what you really want to use. It makes NO sense at all!

So thats why there's so much software piracy down here. There's no money to buy stuff so damn expensive.

#218
OblivionMon

OblivionMon

    InsanelyMac Protégé

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts
  • Gender:Male
Aye me boy some of us wee pirate lads be not stealers but simply that the software ye be talkin' of is sold by people who be makin' tons of money on the first place boyo-- ye need to understand that we pirates are not thiefs but intelligent shoppers.

#219
darkrage

darkrage

    InsanelyMac Protégé

  • Just Joined
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
I am kinda on the fence when it comes to piracy.. and the definition thereof.

Myself, i own the OSX software but use a hacked version to run on my AMD. is this piracy?
my opinion:
No. I legally own the software and nowhere do i see a law that says i can ONLY install MAC OS on a MACINTOSH.
Steve has my money and is in NO WAY harmed by my using it on a different system than he origionally intended.

I also watch TV on the internet... and download TV shows to boot.
My opinion:
Not piracy. Considering most TV stations are streaming the content from their websites, i see no wrongdoing in downloading it now and watching it when i get home tonight.

Games.....

I will admit that i have downloaded many a game off the newsgroups, IRC and Bittorrents.
Why did i get started in that? i have literally 'shelves' full of games numbering well over 100 that I have bought and decided that, after an hour of playing, that it is bunk, badly in need of bugfixing, or the CD is defective (had a lot of these ones).

Consider each software title to cost from 30 to 50 USD. So having spend well over 4k in programs that ended up no better than a doorstop, i now dowload games that seem interesting to me and play them for a while.
so far i have only bought 2 that i have considered worthwhile for my money in the past 2 years.
(Bioshock and Sins of a Solar Empire)

Do i consider myself to be engaging in piracy?
while many would say yea, I say that i am running a fine line. I purchased the ones that i found interesting and could hold my attention, and deleted the ones that couldn't.

Once you open the packaging, you cant take it back to the store anymore to get your money back. Used to be (before the days of mass DVD copying) that you could do so without a problem... but those days are gone..
and looking at my shelf full of junk games (just cant bring myself to throw them out) i will NOT spend another dollar on something that i wont find to be worth my shelling out my hard earned cash for.

to my calculations (just a quick figure) I have spent $300 a year for newsgroup access, $90 for 2 games that i liked. and saved over $4000 in trash software.

You can go to the dealership and testdrive the car you want (and they sometimes let you keep it for a few days to get you to really want it). you can go to the furniture store and sit in that chair, bed, desk, etc etc that you are interested in... but you cant go to walmart and play that game that they are selling on the shelf!

Me? Im testing it to see if i want it.... not pirating.

#220
tomazzzi

tomazzzi

    InsanelyMac Sage

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 420 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:FRANCE

When the average family earns less than 1000USD, there's no way that you can force them to spend 300 bucks on an operating system and 200 more on office, that is what you really want to use. It makes NO sense at all!


+ 1





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

© 2014 InsanelyMac  |   News  |   Forum  |   Downloads  |   OSx86 Wiki  |   Mac Netbook  |   Web hosting by CatN  |   Designed by Ed Gain  |   Logo by irfan  |   Privacy Policy