Why steal from Apple?

[joelogic]

Yeah, that's the part that makes it theft. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Haha I guess you're right, but its that fact alone that differs us from "theives", and "Robin Hoods"

 

If it's for a good cause, is stealing justified? Where's the moral police when you need them

 

I guess it IS stealing when you get right down to it, but I downloaded a movie titled "How to Help Heal the World" instead of renting it from Blockbuster, I wouldn't feel the least bit bad hehe.

 

Yes, I know my logic is completely off the wall. I prefer it that way

[HBP]

Oddly enough, this is the first time I've even considered that anybody was "stealing" anything.

 

In my mind,

 

we're helping Apple if anything. We're like a legion of free developers. If apple ever releases osx for generic pc's (which i believe they will), we're building their open source tech base. We did it here, we did it first, and we led the way.

 

We're not pirates, we're programmers.

 

When this thing retails, there are going to be so many damn wikis, lessons, and compiled programs that have been made that its going to be a wonderful thing to switch to mac.

 

The thing that everyone is playing with right is a Dev Kit that was released by Apple. The people that downloaded it did not pay for it, but they are still doing similar things that the actual developers are, and that benefits everyone IMO.

 

If we were taking the retail copy and hacking it for x86, I would feel its a theft.

 

However it landed in the laps of the people that are using it, it was released to be used, to be tinkered with, and to be adapted.

 

And that's exactly what the "pirates" are doing.

 

The only difference between everyone here and the developers is that they are RENTING it for 1000 dollars, and we're not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL in my opinion, the R&D Department was who released the Kit into the wild. so they would look at who was interested. I think that the sites that have been shut down went past what R&D decided was fair use of the beta for beta sake. if Apple is smart, they will be pulling all the Stuff from these sites to compose a openbox version of osx. they whouldn't support it the same as on a MAC system, But look at the Support base it already has. counting this site alone there has got to be at least several thousand who are attached to this in eather development or as testers. Maxxus Rocks for getting stable emulation to work, we are doing for free what Apple whould be paying through the nose for in man hours if they were to do this in house.

[blahsucks]

I must also add that making OS X run on normal PCs will not make Apple loose 1 cent. People will try OS X on their PC and they will be able to run no apps and get no software updates, not counting limited hardware support. You can see it as a demo. When Apple will release the real OSX86 10.5 the version we are using now will be oudated and some of us will buy macs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The demo would be hacked within two weeks with OEM Mac drivers. If it's not us, someone else will do it. That's how tweakers and hackers work. Apple would lose a lot of hardware sales from new people.

[blackscooby]

If Apple did bring out a retail version of OSX for x86 I'd certainly be up there waiting for the store to open. However I doubt very much that OSX x86 retail is in their game plan

 

But until then I can only hope...

[intradink]

People will always pay a little extra for design. I don't think hardware sales would decline as a result of this. VAIO's are nice looking notebooks, but functionally not that different than an equivalent Dell. XP runs on both, but despite being more expensive VAIO's still sell.

 

So the upshot for Apple, maybe a few more hardware sales (converts to the design element), but a shed load more OSX and software sales (I'd buy retail OSx86 if it ran on my choice of hardware)

 

Choice is good, monopoly is bad.

[Fugu]

I dont feel that I steel from Apple!

Afterall I have paid for Mac OS 10.4, to use it on my PowerBook. Its just that I happend to use it on my Dell laptop as well...

[Freezo]

Three other perspectives:

 

1. This is an open forum. Apple is free to listen and learn from the ways OSX86 is being hacked at the moment and use that to their advantage. With all the openness of the friendly hackers here, they can learn a lot about the level of knowledge in the community and take approporiate measures. And they obviously are, looking at the news today.

 

2. Why is everybody just concerned about running OSX on PC laptops? I would want to know if Windows XP will run on an Apple laptop. If yes, I'll probably buy one. All I want is dual-booting OSX and WinXP. OSX because I like it, WinXP because I need it. Let's be realistic here, OSX has a negligible market share and if you actually need to support you while earning money in a regular business environment, you need XP.

 

3. I still object to using the word 'stealing'. That is absolute bs. Copyright infringement is not stealing, even though it is illegal. I do not dispute that it is. But this is not a dumb audience here, and comparing the use of someone's work without paying for such use with stealing is obviously done on the assumption that we're all as thick as Dubya. Call it illegal, but don't call it stealing.

 

G, Freez

[Technobob]

I don't like to calls this pirating but it is, Apple owns the OS, no if's and's or butt's. That said, I'm using X86 to see if I would switch to Mac. Why would I fork out a couple G's, then find out that I hate Mac, I would be pissed. I can download demo versions of software (try before I buy) but no commercial OS's do this accept some Linux OS's. It takes time to learn any OS, I have tried many version of Linux. I never found a versions of Linux that was as easy to use as Windows or Mac so far. I have so far enjoyed my Mac experiance but I'm still pulling hairs and not ready to switch yet. As much as I hate Windows, I need a system that I'm not spending hours of wasted time trying to figure out how to run this or that (like Linux). I'm not saying Windows has not wasted a lot of my time. My chances of switching over is good but I still find some things are easier in Windows. I would love to see Apple do well with the switch over and the testers like my self, will give valuable information to help the transitions. This forum and many others have some very bright people. I thank those wonderful people for helping me and many others to run this very sweet OS and to help the spread of Mac OS to Windows users

[sheepdog43]

If I remember right, the developer fee was to pay for the equipment.

 

 

If Apple would release an X86 desktop, within a month or 2, I would buy one.

 

How can you steal something that does not even exist really. Sure the O/S is real (debateable), but the systems are not. Also, as has been mentioned, we are helping the (with press if nothing else), and are not hurting their bottom line since we are not their demographic and would either buy one or not. And, I do not think anyone running it is stealing, I personally am of the opinion Apple wanted to see it hacked, so they could lock it down properly (yes, I know a lawyer could prove otherwise).

 

 

 

Personally, I was planning on buying a 2.5 about now, except, not only did they drop it, but they announced X86, at which point, they screwed themselves. Why? because why would I buy an end of the line system, especially at top dollar prices?

 

If X86 were not coming, I would be placing an order and arranging Apple Credit for a 2.7 rather than messing around with this. Would I prefer to build my own, definately. I have not bought a complete system in almost a decade. Apple almost had me.

 

For now, I can play and see if it is the road I want to go down without spending a fortune for something soon to be dropped. It may continue to be sold for another year or so, but what then? There is NO significant upgrade path for G5's now and eventually software will be phased out for them. I intend to get an X86 OSX system bought or built. So Apple will get money from me one way or another (lots), they just have to release it first.

 

 

 

 

By the way, to the guy who said he would pay $99 for a copy, I would be willing to pay as much for it as XP, if that is what it would take. Hell I would buy several copies for the whole family.

 

It would still be cheaper than buying/building a Windows Vista system! Have you seen the system requirements for this? Besides, OXS runs nicer than Windows and is worth it. If that is what it takes for Apple to release it, I am all for it.

 

 

I just wish they would reveal the first X86 systems already. I would run a notebook for a desktop if I had to (12in. preffered, with a good speed cpu... are you watching Apple?).

[kday]

pffft... It's not stealing. It's sharing. Childhood shows said sharing is good.

 

Stealing is physically taking something that is not yours IMHO. And I don't like the word steal. Can we use the word borrow to take its place?

[foxale08]

heh

 

If anything apple would appreciate the widened custamer base

 

I own an ipod, they wont sue me

[keith04]

Why are people pirating from an already struggling company? It's very not cool. Especially, since it means helping out the Windows world. Picking on the little 3% computer margin is not cool.

 

Am I stealing?

Kind of... I would call it more of borrowing. I was planning on buying a Mac this year, but when I heard about the switch to Intel, I figured I'd wait until I saw what happened with the trahsition. If it goes smoothly, I will be the first in line to buy one of the new Intel Macs. I just do not want to buy one now, and have it be unusable in a year. Although it doesnt sound like that will be a problem, with universal binaries, I'm just playing it safe.

 

Am I helping microsoft/windows?

Who cares? A lot of people love bashing Microsoft, and Windows, but the truth is that through their many flaws, they do a lot of things well. For example, I have yet to see a mac that is as customizable as a windows system (I'm talking hardware, not settings). I understand why mac would want to have such tight control over their hardware, to give users the full 'mac experiance', and make sure everything runs smoothly, but windows seems to run (fairly) smoothly without forcing users to use a preset set of hardware. Also, microsoft makes the best office suite out there. I know theres alternatives like OpenOffice.org, but, lets face it, the slideshows in the 'powerpoint' clone are slow and jumpy, and the editor in general runs slowly.

[mikesown]

I am personally 100% sure I am buying an intel 12" PB the DAY they come out in my local apple store. Not only because I believe in supporting a great company like apple, but also because I think the machine itself will be THE nicest laptop to get! Windows and OSX on a sleek laptop! What more can you ask for?

[ervg]

hehe.. well.. I tried the osx86 on my hp laptop and that was enough to realize how much i had missed macos (I last used a mac 7 yrs ago) so, yesterday I sold my pc and bought an iBook... talking of "stealing" that is.. never been happier to spend some cash on hardware

[jbettcher]

Am I stealing?

Kind of... I would call it more of borrowing. I was planning on buying a Mac this year, but when I heard about the switch to Intel, I figured I'd wait until I saw what happened with the trahsition. If it goes smoothly, I will be the first in line to buy one of the new Intel Macs. I just do not want to buy one now, and have it be unusable in a year. Although it doesnt sound like that will be a problem, with universal binaries, I'm just playing it safe.

 

Am I helping microsoft/windows?

Who cares? A lot of people love bashing Microsoft, and Windows, but the truth is that through their many flaws, they do a lot of things well. For example, I have yet to see a mac that is as customizable as a windows system (I'm talking hardware, not settings). I understand why mac would want to have such tight control over their hardware, to give users the full 'mac experiance', and make sure everything runs smoothly, but windows seems to run (fairly) smoothly without forcing users to use a preset set of hardware. Also, microsoft makes the best office suite out there. I know theres alternatives like OpenOffice.org, but, lets face it, the slideshows in the 'powerpoint' clone are slow and jumpy, and the editor in general runs slowly.

 

I think that Apple does people a favour bundling certain hardware and locking a lot of other 3rd party hardware companies out of the game. There are quite a few people who know what they are buying and are aware of compatibility and such. But the average joe has no clue what the hell is going on in his system, Apple tends to limit the amount of 3rd party hardware available to the system by process of selection. If the vendor isn't gonna play nice and release tried and tested drivers or provide proper integration into the computing environment it won't be officially supported.

[xtraa]

I don't think that "stealing" is the right term here.

 

- in some way we help Apple as kind of (maybe unwanted) beta-testers

- we make it popular. Every friend who saw OSX on my machine wants to have it, too.

 

And why is Apple a struggled company? I mean, the y are on their way to #1 in

Music-Biz, and also don't forget the ipod.

 

I think, we support Apple.

[iLux]

We do not steal anything, Apple made everything so that OSx86 could be hacked to make it more popular. We are only commercials.

[Dile]

ehm... well Apple has over 90% share on mp3-player-market with the iPod.... and also an almost monopol with online-music-store with iTunes...

but i must i say that they deserve it!

[DrJägermeister]

Why steal from Apple?

 

Why not?

[f1r3f1ght3r]

I am trying before I'm buying....

 

besides.... steve got money from me for my Powerbook, my wifes powerbook, all of our ipods.

[u1m2]

I think this benefits Apple if anything. People get acquainted with OSX and if next gen Apple's are competitive with white box PCs or Dell's, people will be more likely to buy Apple products since they are already familiar with the operating system.

 

I can say from my own personal experience that I would rather have OS X as my OS rather than Windows any given day. Despite all the effort I have spent to get it to function properly (without internet access and sound I should add) it has left a very good impression on me. If Apple comes out with an Intel based machine which is reasonably priced and loaded with proper hardware (come on, it is silly to pay 2000 bucks for a machine with only 512 megs of ram, that is the budget range standart in PCs these days!!) I would be more than willing to buy it, I think many others will agree. So that 3% might eventually be 10% one day.

 

In a way, this leak of Mac OS X continues where Mac Mini left off, a cheap (in this case free since you already own one) computer for average joes to try Mac OS X. This will only benefit Apple in the long run, since the main reason that people/companies/schools/governments etc... use Windows is because people are acquainted with it and it's capabilities. For example I do graphics work and have used Windows mostly, so I go out and buy a PC when I need a new computer. As I said before, I would more likely go out and buy a Mac as a workstation now given that it has decent hardware and is priced reasonably because I am amazed by the slickness of this OS.

[plasm]

From dictionary.com itself

 

Stealing: To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

Copyright Infringement: a violation of the rights secured by a copyright.

 

All in all, I believe that unless there is a dignified lawyer on these forums to tell us otherwise, then we are NOT stealing...I've used OS X all the way back to 10.1 (which is still my favorite version ) Well, that was irrelevant but anyway, this is an operating system that is still basically a full-grown fetus, the body parts are all there and functioning but it still is not out yet.

 

Humans are greedy; its our nature to just grab things. If there was a guy handing out free copies of Microsoft Windows XP Professional on the street, even if you despised it, you would take it anyway just because you can, right? This topic is a moral issue that differs from person to person. If you believe that this is stealing, then you can reformat your hard drive right now and remove all traces of OSx86 from anything around you. Otherwise, leave the growing population of OSx86 supporters to testing, tinkering, and improving

[Zaico]

You got to be stupid.. When I have the money I'll go and bye an PowerBook G4 right the instants I have the money to do it.. It’s just that it’s not cheap.. I'll have more use for it then a windows PC.. But its not cheap to by an Mac...

[johnniecarcinogen]

So its illegal when MS bundles IE with xp but not when Apple bundles Safari with OS X?

[xtraa]

So its illegal when MS bundles IE with xp but not when Apple bundles Safari with OS X?

 

Exactly.

 

This is because

 

1. unlike Safari, the IE is not only a browser, it is fully integrated in the system. For example, you can type "http://blabla.com" in every Explorer bar, and it will switch to IE. There is no way to uninstall it. Even if you do, the functions will still be there.

 

2.Don't forget that Microsoft ran a big war against Netscape, when Microsoft tried to establish their IE. still more than 90% of all OS is Windows. Thats why it makes a huge difference, if you steal technology and ideas from others, just to implement the code in your own stuff, while holding a monopol.

 

jm2c