ISLAM - general & cartoons

[Ouch]

Everyone is entitled to their own oppinion - DrJagermeister was only stating his and wasn't attacking you personally so lets keep our tempers in check. (Although i'm 'religious' but i'm certainly not a murderer)

 

Anyway a sect is just a branch of a bigger religious group so to say all religions are sects is a logical fallacy - not really sure what you meant by that?

 

I get the feeling you see organised religion as a threat to modern social integration but i have to say i think this is really just a result of media coverage of religion - they only report on the fanatics. Not the everyday joes who simply have a believe and live by it. What can be so bad about following a man who, to quote the late Douglas Adams, "was nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change." :censored2: I don't think it's the threat you see it as.

[WiZMaC]

Everyone is entitled to their own oppinion - DrJagermeister was only stating his and wasn't attacking you personally so lets keep our tempers in check. (Although i'm 'religious' but i'm certainly not a murderer)

 

I'm not attacking DrJagermeister for his opinions but for publicly being disrespectful of Islam and other religions- Spreading lies about my religion offends me as a human being let alone as a Muslim. An Attack on Islam is an attack on me, my beliefs, my convictions, and on my fellow Muslims.

 

He probably never even attempted to educate himself about Islam from legitimate sources. This is a typical example of someone disrespectful and without any decency hiding behind and/or abusing the first amendment. It's like going back in time to the KKK days.

 

I don't go around falsely advertising Christians as murderers, Jews as hypocrites, Aethists as fools. I have respect for them, their religions and and for their choices/beliefs.

 

All I'm saying is that DJ should get his facts straight before he decides to blab about something or someone he has no knowledge off-

[Ouch]

What you call a lie is dependent on perspective - which is clearly not the same as DrJagermiester's who interprets historical events to draw a different conclusion as to the nature of religion in general. I don't believe DrJagermiester's intention was a attack against you but against the merits of religion in general so try not to take it personally. Any christian would interpret much of Islam as a lie and any Muslim interprets Christian teaching as lies - is it not realistic to accept that an aetheist would regard both as lies and be just as passionate about voicing their disbeliefs.

 

In a discussion like this you have to have a thick skin and accept that these comments are not intended as offensive or abusive against a person or group of people. This discussion could not continue if i was to censor every comment one person made that another disagreed with or found offensive. Just accept his right to make comments you don't agree with just as you are allowed to make comments he doesn't agree with. It's the nature of this debate.

[Metrogirl]

Religions want money and power? I think the problem with that statement is that it's too broad. Some (and maybe most) religious organisations want money, presumably to spread their word, build houses of worship, feed their clerics and so on. Inevitably there will be abuse of funds by individuals who want to buy big cars or whatever turns them on, and some quasi-religious organisations are renowned for creaming cash from the gullible. Power is a logical companion to this.

 

Really it hinges on the definition of 'religion'. A religious organisation is not a religion. To my mind a religion is a set of beliefs, a structure for life and an history you can follow. In my city there are churches, mosques, temples and synagogues which all support their specific religion, but they are not the religion itself. If the church wants money, that's their business, but the religions themselves, the beliefs, are not money-grabbing per se.

 

I was brought up in a societal model which had infinite tolerance for different religions. I had no idea what religions most of my friends and neighbours kept, except when social activities were influenced by non-availability due to someone's holy day. I didn't care; they were people and if I liked them, I liked them - regardless of which God they worshipped, or whether they didn't worship at all.

 

As for me, I have a set of beliefs about life, the universe and our existence. I was raised in a family where a particular religion was taught, but I don't think it really mattered which one, since the overall tenet was about being a good person and having family values. I don't give money to any religious organisation. At times of stress I have been to a place of worship to meditate on life - and not necessarily the one to which I would 'belong' if I worshipped regularly, since I don't.

 

Someone being a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew or a Tree-Worshipper is totally unimportant to me. Being a good person, having a structure to life, being tolerant of others is absolutely key.

 

Too many wars have been fought and too many lives have been lost over religious differences. Please let's not have another war on this forum.

[u1m2]

excellent post , simply loved it.

[WiZMaC]

Too many wars have been fought and too many lives have been lost over religious differences. Please let's not have another war on this forum.

 

Well said Metrogirl!

 

It's just that ignorance is a disease that breeds into many bad things and I have a low level of tolerance for that!

 

I've said my peace

 

Cheers!

[paulmer2003]

I despise the Shubbery president we have now. He was not elected into office. He lost the majority vote. The electoral collage system is broken (Thanks Australia). Most of the country did not vote for him. Bush is a terrorist, and likes to aim assult rifles at protesters. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may20...6aimsrifles.htm

 

http://cyveillance.linuxgod.net/heil.jpg

 

I am the furtherest from right winged as you can get, Its on my BIO, on the left when you click the Pheonix. But I am a dedicated Christian. Shrubbery is NOT a christian. He is a faker. Like those TV preachers that tell you to put your hand on the screen to be healed. His only interest is power.

Oh my dear lord, argh! f***ing hippys {censored} me off! And NO, I am NOT a republican. He did NOT loose the majority vote, thats just {censored} what you said. Sure, im no fan of bush. but your just spewing {censored}!\

 

And who gives a {censored} if secret service or what ever aimed a assult rifle at protestors? Rather not have anyone protecting our president?

[gwprod12]

He didnt lose the popular vote? Uh. Can you show me a website that has clear statistics that show he got the most votes?

 

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html

 

oh, and Federal Election Commission (they'd know)

 

http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2000/prespop.htm

 

Al Gore (Democrat) 50,999,897

48.38

 

George W. Bush (Republican) 50,456,002

47.87

[Ouch]

This is a bit off topic - would probably be better in the bush thread

[Mebster]

0uch!p0tat0 is right. Although I hate Bush to my bone and can't easily turn down a slagging Bush debate I have to remind myself this isn't why I created the thread.

 

I haven't replied to "ISLAM - cartoons & general" in a while because it just takes a lot of work to make sure what I’m saying is correct and I just didn't have the time. Hopefully I will try and give some more time to it. Or just upload stuff I’ve written for this thread ages ago like this:

 

So running 2 airliners into the WTC, and killing THOUSANDS of innocent people is ok? I don't know about you, but I don't know ANYONE who would embrace a Jihad religion that encourages taking innocent blood in the name of a holy war without cause.

 

I firsthand saw on Robot Chicken where they depicted a cartoon of Jesus slicing up Santa, and the Easter bunny with a samurai. I am a christian. I thought it was pretty sweet.

In your own words. "lol. That's all I have to say."

 

I have to admit I found your comments quiet offensive. Mainly because you’re ignorant opinions only fire the hostility felt by Muslim women in particular. Men are affected also but we’re stronger and so don’t break as easily. As I mentioned earlier a white Muslim woman was even brought to tears on a TV interview when a passer by on the road shouted “Muslims are terrorists” next to her face. This couldn’t have been any less painfully to watch for a non-Muslim than it was for a Muslim. But I accept your apology simply because Allah tells you it is better to forgive than hold bad feeling against one.

 

You said that you’re lashing out was due to the fact that I had upset you by saying something earlier. I try not to insult and upset people in my life and I try the same here. But I’m not one of these Muslim who just bend over backwards to please the western world. If I understand and agree with something Islamic (i.e. laws) which is controversial (in the west) I don’t sugar-coat it as many do. Many people have become Muslim knowing the full truth. Some even didn’t agree with the issues but alhamdulillah ended up embracing it all eventually.

 

A few new Muslims gave a few of us some good advice. "Be honest with them (i.e. possible new Muslims). Because if the find out the truth from elsewhere, they will end up further away from the truth."

[johnniecarcinogen]

0uch!p0tat0 is right. Although I hate Bush to my bone and can't easily turn down a slagging Bush debate I have to remind myself this isn't why I created the thread.

 

I haven't replied to "ISLAM - cartoons & general" in a while because it just takes a lot of work to make sure what I'm saying is correct and I just didn't have the time. Hopefully I will try and give some more time to it. Or just upload stuff I've written for this thread ages ago like this:

 

 

 

I have to admit I found your comments quiet offensive. Mainly because you're ignorant opinions only fire the hostility felt by Muslim women in particular. Men are affected also but we're stronger and so don't break as easily. As I mentioned earlier a white Muslim woman was even brought to tears on a TV interview when a passer by on the road shouted "Muslims are terrorists" next to her face. This couldn't have been any less painfully to watch for a non-Muslim than it was for a Muslim. But I accept your apology simply because Allah tells you it is better to forgive than hold bad feeling against one.

 

You said that you're lashing out was due to the fact that I had upset you by saying something earlier. I try not to insult and upset people in my life and I try the same here. But I'm not one of these Muslim who just bend over backwards to please the western world. If I understand and agree with something Islamic (i.e. laws) which is controversial (in the west) I don't sugar-coat it as many do. Many people have become Muslim knowing the full truth. Some even didn't agree with the issues but alhamdulillah ended up embracing it all eventually.

 

A few new Muslims gave a few of us some good advice. "Be honest with them (i.e. possible new Muslims). Because if the find out the truth from elsewhere, they will end up further away from the truth."

 

I'm glad you know the truth already. Especially since your avatar has a suitcase nuke in front of Big Ben. Aren't you reciprocating ignorance by incinuating that your beliefs are the truth?

[gwprod12]

I'm all for letting Muslims lead an Islamic life, for Christians to lead a Christian life, and for whomever to lead a whomever life. As long as you arent trying to impinge apon my lifestyle, I'm fine with yours!

 

Syriana's a good flick.

[Mebster]

I was wondering when someone was going to notice that. The west likes to paint all Muslims as terrorists and so as a joke some us (even really nice people) have things like this to make fun of it all. Doesn’t mean we act on it at all. But I do notice a lot of Muslims laugh about it.

 

It's a funny thing because my cousin who has just left school went to the same website that i created the avatar and his was almost exactly the same as mine. Now we both disagree with civilian deaths like the WTC and everything else on both sides (Muslim killing westerns and western killing Muslim) but we both decided to use our images to show what kind of a world we live in now. My cousins only 16 and the mentality is there already that we are treated differently. Muslims who are coming into this world will grow up only knowing this hostility and I really feel sorry for that. I'm from the UK and most of my life I was proud to consider myself British. To me (bad weather and all) it was the best place to be. I love multiculturalism and London (where I live) seemed to me like the glowing example of multiculturalism to the world. But after Iraq and the way we are seen and treated makes that a distant memory.

------------------------

gwprod12 you've offered a lot more than most people do and I thank you for it. In the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and after, non-believers (i.e. Jews, Christians, etc) lived under Muslim rule and they were treated well. They were able to do as they needed and all that was asked of them was TAX to be paid. This TAX was not asked from the Muslims (as far as I understand). By paying this TAX it meant if the country (Muslim nation) came under attack, the non-Muslims would be exempt from the battle. I.e. the Muslims would defend themselves and there non-Muslims neighbours. If a non-Muslim wanted to fight (for his own reasons) he was put behind the Muslims. This is just a small way in which Muslims and non-Muslims have and can live together.

 

Where the problems start is when the west (or anyone) begins to insult Islam. That’s a basic no go area. And if you step over the line then expect consequences and this does also include fights and war etc. I guess it depends on how strong the insult is. But I would just like to say that insulting the beloved Prophet (PBUH) is an extreme insult. It doesn't matter to the Muslim on the street if it's legal to do so or not. I don't insult other religions not because I don't want Islam to be insulted but because there is no need and it's not right to do so but also because Allah tells us not to. But even if Allah did not, I still would not.

[gwprod12]

However. I dont see anything wrong with making fun of Mohammed in a cartoon. I dont see anything wrong with making fun of Jesus in a cartoon.

 

If you think Mohammed sucks, great. If you think Jesus sucks (which I do), then great. If you think Buddha is a fat beer guzzler in need of a life, then great. If you think {censored} suck, then great. If, like me, you are a {censored} and you think dirty breeders suck, then double great.

 

As long as it stays within the realm of personal opinion and doesnt go into legislation, I'm all for it.

 

Opinions are like {censored}s. Everyone has/is one.

 

 

We have a saying here: Sticks and Stones May Break My Bones, But Names Will Never Hurt Me. It probably should be amended to "Stick and Stones (And Laws) May Break My Bones, But Names Will Never Hurt Me.

 

It sucks that Muslims are offended by Jews and Christians and Britney Spears and Janet Reno.

I'm offended by Pat Robertson, George W Bush and Bill O'Reilly. If ONLY that gave me the moral and legal right to go blitz them out of existence. But it doesnt.

[Georgiles]

got a good film for you with Profet Mohamad and all:

www.georgeanton.com see "The Guy in the Sky"

 

Mod Edit - Videos contain content that you may consider to be offensive. Use your own discretion

Edited July 8, 2006 by 0uch!p0tat0

[A Nonny Moose]

It sucks that Muslims are offended by Jews and Christians and Britney Spears and Janet Reno.

I'm offended by Pat Robertson, George W Bush and Bill O'Reilly. If ONLY that gave me the moral and legal right to go blitz them out of existence. But it doesnt.

 

But that's the difference between regular people (Muslims included) and extremist Muslims. Extremists feel wholesale slaughter is ok so long as it guarantees them a trip to paradise. Unfortunately, I have yet to see anything from Muslim leaders condemning the extremists, probably because they'll get blown up with the rest of whom the extremists call "infidels."

[u1m2]

So some extremists bombed a few places and all muslims are to be feared yet we muslims shouldn't fear western nations despite the fact that they murdered more than a million muslims in the past decade alone. Twisted logic in action once again!!!

 

More than 300,000 Iraqis were killed in the 43-day military war in 1991. Since then, more than one million people-mainly young children-have died as a direct result of the US-led blockade on this small country. The lack of food and medicine, along with the deteriorating sanitary conditions in Iraq, have caused far more harm and suffering than the military war itself-despite the use of more than 142,000 tons of bombs and 350 tons of depleted uranium shells during the bombing campaigns. From a legal perspective, the maritime blockade, coupled with the air blockade, amounts to an act of war, thereby making the economic sanctions a continuation of the war that supposedly ended in March 1991.

 

Quoted from

http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/Mar97/iraq.html

 

for other reading on the subject and in general, war on Iraq

 

http://gbgm-umc.org/response/articles/iraq.html

http://bertoniraq.blogspot.com/

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Deaths

 

To be honest, I can't really blame extremists for thinking they are fighting against evil. Decent, good people wouldn't have let any of this happen to fellow human beings. Hypocrites who feel sorry at the sight of dead people after 911 but who won't be moved to see 12 year old kids beaten to death by neanderthal british soldiers are not considered 'decent' btw...

[johnniecarcinogen]

So some extremists bombed a few places and all muslims are to be feared yet we muslims shouldn't fear western nations despite the fact that they murdered more than a million muslims in the past decade alone. Twisted logic in action once again!!!

 

 

 

Quoted from

http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/Mar97/iraq.html

 

for other reading on the subject and in general, war on Iraq

 

http://gbgm-umc.org/response/articles/iraq.html

http://bertoniraq.blogspot.com/

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Deaths

 

To be honest, I can't really blame extremists for thinking they are fighting against evil. Decent, good people wouldn't have let any of this happen to fellow human beings. Hypocrites who feel sorry at the sight of dead people after 911 but who won't be moved to see 12 year old kids beaten to death by neanderthal british soldiers are not considered 'decent' btw...

 

How many mulisms killed other muslims in the last decade? Or how about today?

[u1m2]

Not only that your argument is irrelevant and the answer to your question is 'a whole lot less than muslims that are killed by non-muslims' your point that it is ok for muslims to be killed by non-muslims just because muslims are killing other muslims is outright stupid. Read before you think, think before you type.

 

edit : deleted insult, sorry again for misunderstanding johnnie

[johnniecarcinogen]

Take your own advice and re-read my post. I didn't argue. I simply asked a question.

[gwprod12]

People kill people. They shouldnt. Enough said.

 

Islam is currently going through it's analog to the Christian dark ages.

 

The western world has three choices: Help their dark age be shorter, help make it longer and worse (current policy), or leave them to their own devices. If they want to fight constant wars over doctrine, let them. Just contain it.

 

There's nothing weird or wrong with being a muslim. They just are. Some of them will get their panties into a twist over the Quran, and start blowing stuff up. But most of them just want to go about thier daily lives.

[Georgiles]

christian, muslim, budist, tom cruise & scientology all garbage. Who have time for all this bullcrap. I'm trying to set up this dual boot for weeks now and I still need more time.

[Mebster]

This topic isn't about whether God exists. There is already a topic for that. Evolution vs. Creation

 

Please take your comments there.

[u1m2]

Take your own advice and re-read my post. I didn't argue. I simply asked a question.

 

I am sorry if I misunderstood your question. It just seemed more of a statement or counter-argument to me rather than really asking for a reply.

[johnniecarcinogen]

sorry if i seemed hateful (that wasn't my intention). its all good.