ISLAM - general & cartoons

[Mebster]

It's sad how far you would go.

I really feel sorry for you.

 

These videos are so old that it's sad you only found it now. I'm sure most people knew of all this ages ago. But then you're probably just slow. And what really makes me laugh is that you much have searched on google or youtube for "Islam, hate, muslim, hate, Muhammad, hate"

 

I'm sure if I look up on Christianity I could find similar videos. Actually maybe more historical facts than videos to show how dark it is/was. Or maybe just search for "Christianity, young boys". But I wont, as I don't enjoy offending other peoples religion. Especially considering I have friends who are Christian and there are members of this forum (most of whom know better about Islam than what you have shown) who are Christians.

 

But it was your choice to make and you made it.

[martin1976]

It's sad how far you would go.

I really feel sorry for you.

 

These videos are so old that it's sad you only found it now. I'm sure most people knew of all this ages ago. But then you're probably just slow. And what really makes me laugh is that you much have searched on google or youtube for "Islam, hate, muslim, hate, Muhammad, hate"

 

I'm sure if I look up on Christianity I could find similar videos. Actually maybe more historical facts than videos to show how dark it is/was. Or maybe just search for "Christianity, young boys". But I wont, as I don't enjoy offending other peoples religion. Especially considering I have friends who are Christian and there are members of this forum (most of whom know better about Islam than what you have shown) who are Christians.

 

But it was your choice to make and you made it.

Regardless of how old the video is, of them being christians or muslims, black or white, whatever, do you think these people are doing the right thing?

[johnniecarcinogen]

It's sad how far you would go.

I really feel sorry for you.

 

These videos are so old that it's sad you only found it now. I'm sure most people knew of all this ages ago. But then you're probably just slow. And what really makes me laugh is that you much have searched on google or youtube for "Islam, hate, muslim, hate, Muhammad, hate"

 

I'm sure if I look up on Christianity I could find similar videos. Actually maybe more historical facts than videos to show how dark it is/was. Or maybe just search for "Christianity, young boys". But I wont, as I don't enjoy offending other peoples religion. Especially considering I have friends who are Christian and there are members of this forum (most of whom know better about Islam than what you have shown) who are Christians.

 

But it was your choice to make and you made it.

 

Once again you over analyze my post. The video is from the beginning of this year, but I guess in this day and age that does qualify it as 'so old'. BTW I did not actively search for this, after the video of Azzam the American was released a few days ago with him sitting beside al-Zawahiri I wanted to hear his entire statement instead of just what clips the media chose to make public so I went to youtube.

 

I did not find the latest tape but did find an earlier video interviewing Azzam here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM-UtMEhQN0

I found the interview interesting especially when he addresses other muslims who label al-Qaeda as extremist, but thats another topic. In the "Explore More Videos" section the video of the protests in London over the cartoons was available and I remembered this thread relating to the cartoons so I thought I'd share it.

 

Come to your own conclusions.

[Mebster]

Regardless of how old the video is, of them being christians or muslims, black or white, whatever, do you think these people are doing the right thing?

I've seen different videos with people saying and holding up different comments. It would depend on the comment.

 

I would say I disagree with most but not all. I disgusts me if the comments are aimed at all non-Muslims as almost all had nothing to do with the cartoons and some were even being supportive (in some sense or another) but if the comments are aimed at the culprits of the whole thing or in a lesser sense ones who are willing to accept and see no fault in what they have done, then I feel less sorry for them.

 

In general the stronger comments I totally disagree with but the others depend on what they are saying.

 

But please understand to a Muslim this is one of the strongest attacks you can give.

 

I remember before all this blew up a friend of mine on told me he had read/heard somewhere that If one insults Allah then we (Muslims) do not need to do anything as Allah will deal with him himself on the day of judgement. However if someone insults the beloved prophet, then we take matters onto our own hand.

 

This may not seem like a great way to go about it but it's Islam, and I’m a Muslim and there are 1.6 billion of us who should (and I think most do) feel the same.

 

I don't want you to think i/we are violent people. Some are sure, but we have them in all societies of live. Muslims in general are peacefully people. I’m not one of those guys who try and bs this comment all the time. I truly know. And if it wasn’t then I would tell you. Anyway that’s as long as you stay within the boundaries of what we can take as attacks. I personally am not a violent guy. I remember in school getting beaten up by a guy (although I could have probably taken him all) because I was worried I might accidentally hit him and break his nose. So violence isn't really a part of me even though I can take care of myself (and have) when it's needed.

 

It’s difficult to try and explain all this in a way someone would understand and so I don’t normally try. Because most of the time I’m unable to get it all through the way I should have.

[johnniecarcinogen]

However if someone insults the beloved prophet, then we take matters onto our own hand.

 

...Muslims in general are peacefully people. I'm not one of those guys who try and bs this comment all the time. I truly know. And if it wasn't then I would tell you. Anyway that's as long as you stay within the boundaries of what we can take as attacks...

 

Thanks for setting us straight.

[as400]

"It’s difficult to try and explain all this in a way someone would understand and so I don’t normally try. Because most of the time I’m unable to get it all through the way I should have."

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So, this is your absolution??? So, we should accept blowing up our homes just because you are not able to explain why are you so aggressive???

What is your contribution to the civilization? Did you ever think about it ?

There are countries in which you are living... and then... suddenly you come to the conclusion that you need to blow up the underground....

you are completely f***ed up - same as your mohamet or whatever it is called !!!

[Mebster]

The Prophet (pbuh), said: "Fasting is a shield; so when one of you is Fasting he should not use foul or foolish talk. If someone attacks him or insults him, let him say: 'I am Fasting, I am Fasting!'"

I AM FASTING

Welcome to the forum and try and tone down the hatefullness. I mean you only have 2 post and this isn't exactly a positive start.

 

It's the month of Ramadan, relax.

[Mebster]

Veil issue 'a matter for Muslims'

 

Commons leader Jack Straw has sparked controversy over his views that he would prefer Muslim women not to wear a veil which covers the face - or niqab - when visiting his MP's surgery.

 

Mr Straw's comments have caused concern from some Muslim groups - the Islamic Human Rights Commission said his views were "astonishing" - while Dr Daud Abdullah, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said he could understand Mr Straw's views.

 

Here, some Muslim women tell the BBC News website how they regard the niqab.

 

 

ZAFREEN KHAN, 29, SLOUGH

 

Ms Khan said the niqab is a woman's expression of religion and that "women find comfort and solace in it. It's an expression of their identity, I don't think they do it to appear unreadable or invite suspicion.

 

"I don't think it is right of Mr Straw to say 'I will only help you if you take it off'.

 

"I can understand some people's concerns that communication is made more difficult by not seeing expression - you can't see what they are saying or see them smile, for instance. It is their choice but they should be aware it does hinder communication."

 

But she said: "If they are going in to ask their local MP for help it shouldn't be on the condition that they remove an item of clothing."

 

She said she would not expect Mr Straw to demand an Orthodox Jew to take off items of clothing related to their faith.

 

And she stressed removing such an item of clothing - especially in the presence of strangers - was not a decision taken lightly.

 

"They don't choose to take it off. What will help community relations is if some women would explain why they choose to wear it. The Muslim community could be more vocal about it. It has opened up debate.

 

Ms Khan said she was happy to wear the hijab: "I subscribe to the interpretation that that is an obligation and I am happy to fulfil that."

 

ANNIKA WAHEED, 22, EAST LONDON

 

Annika Waheed wears the niqab - she began wearing it last Monday, something she described as "good timing!

 

"It is a spiritual thing. I only really started practising my religion about 18 months ago. I started wearing the hijab - and then I just thought I'd do it."

 

She said six months after wearing the hijab she felt it was "the best decision I had ever made" and feels strongly that the niqab has made her feel closer to God.

 

She said that if in her work she found the niqab was getting in the way of conducting interviews she would take it off - but only if she was in the presence of women.

 

If she was a constituent of Mr Straw's, she would "turn it round on him - ask him if his shirt was too tight would he take it off!"

 

Ms Waheed added that wearing the niqab does not necessarily make it harder for people to communicate with her.

 

"I can tell if someone is friendly by their body posture.

 

"I wanted to go on the train the other day and my ticket wasn't working. The attendant could see I was in a rush. The ticket attendant came up to me and he asked me if I was OK. He could instantly see I was in a rush - and that wasn't exactly from my facial expressions."

 

CATHERINE HOSSAIN, 27, LONDON

 

Catherine Hossain believes Mr Straw's remarks are "headline-grabbing" and will not help the "problems of segregation in places like Blackburn".

 

"I wear the hijab - personally I would never wear the niqab. But I do respect the right of people to wear it if it's what they want.

 

"I don't think it's an obligation under Islam. I feel more comfortable with my face uncovered. For instance, I am a nursery school teacher, and I couldn't do my job is my face was covered."

 

But she said talking to a woman wearing the niqab is "not as off-putting as people might expect". She is upset at people offering opinions on Muslim women's dress who have no experience of dealing with the community.

 

She added: "The niqab is being seen as a symbol of separateness it is just people dressing according to their faith."

 

SAFOORA NANA, 19, BATLEY, YORKSHIRE

 

Ms Nana wears the niqab and has done so for two years.

 

"It's a requirement, an obligation for a woman to wear a niqab," she said. She agreed there is a debate over whether a woman should cover her face or just her hair but she believes teachings from the Prophet Muhammad make it clear a woman should cover her face.

 

She does not believe the niqab gets in the way of human interaction: "We don't have a problem communicating over the phone or on e-mail. It doesn't make a difference.

 

"Muslim women want to be judged on our brains and what we think, and not what we look like."

 

"I've been called terrorist and suicide bomber and ninja. I just laugh it off. When I turn round and say 'hi' to these people, they're fine."

 

FATIMA MANJI, 20, PETERBOROUGH

 

Ms Manji does not wear a niqab and welcomes debate from within the Muslim community on what is appropriate to wear - but does not believe it was Jack Straw's place to comment on Muslim dress.

 

"I personally don't think it's a good idea to cover our faces in the society we live in," she said. "I think it can be quite intimidating.... I think covering your hair is enough."

 

"I think this should be debated within the Muslim community. I don't think this is the right forum. It is something being debated by the highest level of Muslim scholars."

 

She also believes that Britain's secular government should keep to a separation of church and state - and that politicians should not be passing comment on other faiths' codes of dress.

 

"It undermines Muslim women. There's very few Muslim women in this country who are afraid to talk about it.

 

"We don't need Jack Straw initiating debate for us - we don't tell Jack Straw how to dress."

It amazes me how now they are attacking Muslim Women. A mini skirt is fine but not a niqab. Exactly what is so wrong in this modern day and age of freedom of expression with a woman choosing to wear what she wants as long as it's not getting in anyone else’s way. Is it absolutely necessary to have a look at the face of someone sister, wife, mother? What if your wife wanted to cover up to be seen only by you? How would you like the goverment telling her to take it off?

 

This is just asking for trouble. You don’t need to be Al-Qaeda to feel as though Muslims are being singled out and treated wrongly. The moderate Muslim will think the same. Whether it's banned or not, will just show the Muslims we are alone. Resulting in more segregation. Funny. This is exactly what it’s supposed to combat.

[wildcat69410]

It amazes me how now they are attacking Muslim Women. A mini skirt is fine but not a niqab. Exactly what is so wrong in this modern day and age of freedom of expression with a woman choosing to wear what she wants as long as it's not getting in anyone else’s way. Is it absolutely necessary to have a look at the face of someone sister, wife, mother? What if your wife wanted to cover up to be seen only by you? How would you like the goverment telling her to take it off?

 

This is just asking for trouble. You don’t need to be Al-Qaeda to feel as though Muslims are being singled out and treated wrongly. The moderate Muslim will think the same. Whether it's banned or not will just show the Muslims we are alone. Resulting in more segregation. Funny. This is exactly what it’s supposed to combat.

 

That, even I can easily agree with. Although I disagree with the religious belief, I do believe that they have every right to live as they please in this circumstance.

 

Hey, does anyone else find it funny that people keep complaining that Religion is often intruding upon the Government, yet nobody really complains how the Government is intruding upon the Religion?

[killbot1000]

Well, when you play with fire, what do you expect?

[wildcat69410]

Well, when you play with fire, what do you expect?

 

Certainly not hypocrisy...

[killbot1000]

all im saying is when you use religion to try to change the government, dont be mad when the government starts trying to change your religion hehe.

[Suzuka]

"It’s difficult to try and explain all this in a way someone would understand and so I don’t normally try. Because most of the time I’m unable to get it all through the way I should have."

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So, this is your absolution??? So, we should accept blowing up our homes just because you are not able to explain why are you so aggressive???

What is your contribution to the civilization? Did you ever think about it ?

There are countries in which you are living... and then... suddenly you come to the conclusion that you need to blow up the underground....

you are completely f***ed up - same as your mohamet or whatever it is called !!!

 

What have you contributed to your civilization? Most of us here havent contributed anything that will be remembered a hundred or a thousand years later. so I suppose they shouldn't have existed in the first place right? (no offence to all of us)

 

No you shouldn't accept getting your homes blown up, but you shouldn't blame an entire religion on it, just blame the group or people who did it.

I was very dissapointed when I saw the flags being burned, the country shouldn't have been blamed, just the people who published them.

[wildcat69410]

all im saying is when you use religion to try to change the government, dont be mad when the government starts trying to change your religion hehe.

 

The very same can be said for you. If you want the Government to change Religion, don't be surprised if Religion strikes back. Plus, its not like Religion ever really changed the Government, just the morals supported by that Religion changed things. In that situation, it's not really religion, just morals. We're not talking about how the Pope or some other major religious figure changed the Government.

[Mebster]

all im saying is when you use religion to try to change the government, dont be mad when the government starts trying to change your religion hehe.

When has anyone tried to use religion to change the government? Muslims try and persuade the government to change its foreign and some domestic policies but that's a normal thing to do and all sects do it if it's in their own interest. The only place I know where religion is used to change the government is the US where they elect the candidates based on their religious values.

 

And anyway exactly what does that have to do with women (muslim or non-mulslim) who want to have the right to wear a veil. I know no one at all personally who wears a veil but I’m still angered that this can be taken away all because some {censored} finds it uncomfortable. In this day and age where almost all communication happens is none face to face, where major decisions are taken all via communication through the internet how on earth is it a great hindrance if a woman is wearing a veil when she's speaking to you.

 

Next thing you know is woman covering themselves is going to be banned. I wonder what the nuns are going to do then.

[wildcat69410]

The only place I know where religion is used to change the government is the US where they elect the candidates based on their religious values.

 

Just because religious values is a factor in the United States Presidential elections does not, in any way mean, that Religion is trying to change the Government in the US. It's simply a value that a lot of Americans look for in a President, someone who shares similar values to them. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

[killbot1000]

I think people should be able to wear whatever the hell they want, or lack thereof, but law should not be imposed forcing people to wear/not wear something. As for the religion/government thing, as an american, I see the church getting more and more power, in fact Bush has opened an office in the white house (with taxpayers money) for the furtherment of faith based initiatives. Clearly seperation of church and state is violated here. Seriously, many of our founding fathers (i would argue atleast half) were not christians, and did not intend for christianity to dictate policy in our country.

 

Furthermore, I dont really understand the illusion of Religion's stranglehold on Morality. Up here in seattle, where there are a fair amount of atheists and agnostics, there is just as much morality as christians, the idea that a christian somehow has more moral worth than an atheist is really a delusion. Everybody thinks the way they think, theres not really a universal measuring stick for this, even most christians and muslims pick and choose which rules to follow. If not, youd all be killing babies and the like. I have more but im tired...

[consolation]

"What is your contribution to the civilization? Did you ever think about it ?

 

 

If you mean except the number system you use everyday, medicine, mathematics, optics etc etc... If it wasn't for Muslim countries preserving, and developing on, Greek and Roman science during Europe's dark ages, today, we would probably be getting very excited about those horse-less steam carriages that are just coming out now. And you buddy, would probably be looking forward to a long and satisfying career as the night soil man.

 

When Christian countries were having pogroms and burning heretics at the stake, the moors allowed relative freedom of religion to Jews and Christians alike. It's sad that it all got so horribly fckd up; but it seems more to be the result of power politics then religion; crusade anyone?

[gwprod12]

All these things are true. The Christian Golden Age was from about 200 to 700. Then it ended, slipping down into barbarism and religious zealotry. The Islamic Golden Age was from 800 to about 1900. Quite long. Yet now, Islam is slipping down into barbarism and religious zealotry. See the patern?

 

EDIT: There's nothing wrong with Islam or Muslims that isnt wrong with Christianity or Christians, in my view. Both believe in superstition.

 

One would think, as I do, that if Muslim extremists wanted the west out of their lands... they'd destroy the oil.

 

(I wish they would)

[Mebster]

If you mean except the number system you use everyday, medicine, mathematics, optics etc etc... If it wasn't for Muslim countries preserving, and developing on, Greek and Roman science during Europe's dark ages, today, we would probably be getting very excited about those horse-less steam carriages that are just coming out now. And you buddy, would probably be looking forward to a long and satisfying career as the night soil man.

 

When Christian countries were having pogroms and burning heretics at the stake, the moors allowed relative freedom of religion to Jews and Christians alike. It's sad that it all got so horribly fckd up; but it seems more to be the result of power politics then religion; crusade anyone?

Masha' Allah. Very well said.

as400, you're clearly a poorly informed person. Had you taken some time to research the matter you would look like less like a rushed dim individual who just had to get to post no 2.

In terms of what have we contributed to society... well as an individual most of us have or will probably contribute anything of any great value. However the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) contribution is even today remembered and valued by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. His contribution to society outweighs that of anyone else.

That's probably the reason he was ranked no. 1 in The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History by Michael H. Hart (a Jewish American).

 

All these things are true. The Christian Golden Age was from about 200 to 700. Then it ended, slipping down into barbarism and religious zealotry. The Islamic Golden Age was from 800 to about 1900. Quite long. Yet now, Islam is slipping down into barbarism and religious zealotry. See the patern?

Damn right it's long. And do any of use get taught this in school. No. Only about the bleeding savage romans, greeks and good old hitler.

 

Anyway a few people (compared to total Muslims population) blowing up a few buildings in the name of religion is hardly a decline. And certainly is nothing like the way Christianity declined. And anyway Muslims mush of what is happening Muslims should not be surprised by as it’s expected. As the day of judgement comes closer... the future looks bleaker.

[wildcat69410]

hysterical.gif Masha' Allah. Very well said.

as400, you're clearly a poorly informed person. Had you taken some time to research the matter you would look like less like a rushed dim individual who just had to get to post no 2.

In terms of what have we contributed to society... well as an individual most of us have or will probably contribute anything of any great value. However the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) contribution is even today remembered and valued by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. His contribution to society outweighs that of anyone else.

That's probably the reason he was ranked no. 1 in The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History by Michael H. Hart (a Jewish American).

 

I am not arguing against the fact that Muslims have indeed made contributions to the world, I'd just like to point out that the book was about the most Influential people, not necessarily the people who made the greatest contribution. Heck, both Ghengis Khan and Hitler made that list at 29 and 39 respectively.

 

Anyway a few people (compared to total Muslims population) blowing up a few buildings in the name of religion is hardly a decline. And certainly is nothing like the way Christianity declined. And anyway Muslims mush of what is happening Muslims should not be surprised by as it’s expected. As the day of judgement comes closer... the future looks bleaker.

 

To say that the Islam decline is nothing like Christianity's decline is a little off. Christianity's Crusades could be easily replaced by the type of religiously inspired action taking place in the Middle East against countries like Israel. The decline of Islam has yet to reach the level of decline that Christianity had, but it's inevitable. Plus, we have to consider the social turbulence that Europe experienced during this entire time period that also caused quite a downfall, not necessarily one related directly to Religious Purposes.

 

Both Christians and Muslims alike are noticing the similarities between the world around us, and the signs of the Day of Judgement. I am wondering still if I will live to see the end, and if I am prepared.

[killbot1000]

This judgement talk is pure {censored}, honestly we can change our world for the better, dont any of you see that?! its almost like you WANT the world to end, and if you ask me, thats a little messed up. We have control over our future and we can change the world, it takes one person at a time, seriously...

[johan]

I think that it is just a cartoon and people should treat it as such, its not like a news cast, its fake and supposed to be funny, weather or not it is is your opinion but i thing personially that if it offends you you should not be reading/watching that cartoon.

max

 

 

i agree with you.

 

but i think that its all about politics and power

 

some people in the east try to get power, by setting up sides against each other

 

Muslim vs the west

 

they want it that way , just to get power

 

just as there are leaders in the west who try to get votes by anti Muslim talk

 

 

it's the oldest trick in the book

 

Hitler did it with the Jews

 

Divide and Conquer

 

Them against us…

 

A very dangerous way of thinking…

 

That was stimulated by leaders like President Bush.. with hem saying .:

 

axis of evil

 

if you are not with us, you are against us

 

and simplistic talk like that

[Mebster]

This judgement talk is pure {censored},

That's your opinion. However for someone like me or anyone with a religion.... that would be a weird thing to believe in.

 

honestly we can change our world for the better, dont any of you see that?!

Thousands of people are dying of hunger each day even though in other parts of the world people have problems with being obese. Mass murdering goes on in front of our own eyes but nothing is done about it until it is too late. A country attacks another country without real reason and no one is able to stop it happening. The big players in the world are completely devastation the weather causing global warming which will have a larger effect on the poor and we still don't care enough....

The world is becoming more and more unbearable and quite frankly depressing. Especially for a Muslim (with all the jabs every day). I personally think the point where we could have done something passed a while back. Now the momentum of all this mess will just have to play itself out.

 

its almost like you WANT the world to end, and if you ask me, thats a little messed up. We have control over our future and we can change the world, it takes one person at a time, seriously...

I don't want the world to end.... but it will .

We do have control over our future but that becoming less and less as each day passes (new laws). The time of Martin Gandhi, Luther King and Nelson Mandela and who ever i think is gone. At least for a while.

 

It's a sad world but it's where we are and we have to try our best to put up with it.

 

EDIT: Hey Johan. Been a while. Good post.

[gwprod12]

Ahem. While it is true that there are a relative few building blower-uppers, those people arent the only representatives of the dark age of Islam. Religious zealotry of any sort is the byword of a religion that perceives itself to be weak and threatened.

 

Three hundred years ago, it would never occurred to muslims to interpret the Q'uran as Osama Bin Laden, or Ayatolla (sp?) Houmeni, or any of the other religious zealots do. Just as 1500 years ago, Flavius Jonas Smithus wasnt interpreting the bible in the way it is today.

 

A good example of the decline of a religion is how they treat their homosexuals (or witches, I guess). Three hundred years ago, though homosexuality was technically illegal in the Islamic territories, it was practiced openly. Today, it's a death sentence. 1500 years ago, homosexuality was a quirky alternative lifestyle in the Christian world. 800 years ago, it was a one-way trip to being burned at the stake.

 

When a religion is golden, it becomes progressive and enlightened. When it's dark, it becomes conservative and suffocating.