killbot1000 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Thats actually quite a good way to put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebster Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 Three hundred years ago, it would never occurred to muslims to interpret the Q'uran as Osama Bin Laden, or Ayatolla (sp?) Houmeni, or any of the other religious zealots do. Just as 1500 years ago, Flavius Jonas Smithus wasnt interpreting the bible in the way it is today. A good example of the decline of a religion is how they treat their homosexuals (or witches, I guess). Three hundred years ago, though homosexuality was technically illegal in the Islamic territories, it was practiced openly. Today, it's a death sentence. 1500 years ago, homosexuality was a quirky alternative lifestyle in the Christian world. 800 years ago, it was a one-way trip to being burned at the stake. Three hundred years ago America wasn't going around invading Muslim countries and killing their people. And so there was no need for a Osama and even if there was no one would give support. Today you have sympathisers only because they feel the level of aggression towards them has reached such heights they need to take equally or more devastating actions. Secondly homosexuality has always been a major sin punishable by death. There's no change there. Countries may shy away from actually performing the sentence or even admitting what it is but it is what it is. In terms of peoples interpretation I do understand what you're saying. Your right people will interpret the Quran in different ways and this is sometimes done. But the Qur'an's text (The Arabic version is the Quran - translations are just that, translation) has never changed, unlike the bible. It has remained the same for 1400 years. If someone interprets it differently then they will almost always be alone with a relatively small number of followers in comparison. This is why not all Muslims join Osama and grab for the gun. Muslims interpret a large number of things in different ways but these are almost always the nitty gritty things of which there isn't much importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Maybe a better way to put it is this: When a religion is high-minded, it's primary focus is on assisting people in their lives and spirit. When a religion is low-minded, it's primary focus is condemnation and proseltizing. The Golden Age is like Joel Ostein. A Dark Age is like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson (or Osama Bin Laden) You know you're in serious trouble when a faith of peace like Islam is used to murder people, or a faith of charity and compassion like Christianity is used to justify any sort of financial buggery and conducting "sinners" to hell. If Christians actually behaved like Jesus, they'd probably be a lot less evil. (I dunno enough about Islam to make a similar analogy) EDIT: AcePlayer: every religionist claims their book is devoid of error and completely in accordance with the original. And again, I will stress, that in Iran for instance, suspected homosexuals are executed. During the time of the ottoman empire, it required quite a lot more than suspicion. If people want to live in a society where being the same is enforced by law, that's their business. But they shouldnt try to bring it here (western, progressive nations), or help the homegrown zealots grow. Why cant people just be happy with their choice of religion? Why does it HAVE to be everyone else's as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat69410 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Maybe a better way to put it is this: When a religion is high-minded, it's primary focus is on assisting people in their lives and spirit. When a religion is low-minded, it's primary focus is condemnation and proseltizing. The Golden Age is like Joel Ostein. A Dark Age is like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson (or Osama Bin Laden) You know you're in serious trouble when a faith of peace like Islam is used to murder people, or a faith of charity and compassion like Christianity is used to justify any sort of financial buggery and conducting "sinners" to hell. If Christians actually behaved like Jesus, they'd probably be a lot less evil. (I dunno enough about Islam to make a similar analogy) To call Christians evil is a little heavy there. Anyway, the goal of Christianity is to provide salvation, and in that way it indeed makes a primariy focus upon assisting people in their lives and spirit. However, not all people start in the fortunate place of starting with an already present spirit. There are people out there who lead lives of sin, and that need to be shown their wrongs. Religion, with Christianity in Particular, isn't there to make everyone feel better inside, it's to make a serious change in people's lives. In order to make those changes, you have to declare some things as wrong, and others as right. Naturally, you eventually arrive to a conclusion that the condemnation of something is a necessity. Extremist Christians will walk around condeming everybody but themselves to hell. But how many more look at a sinner and try to bring them to Christ? How many more of the latter must there be before their extremist counterparts are ignored? The goal of Christianity, even mentioned multiple times throughout the Bible, is to act as close to Jesus as possible. Although perfection is an unattainable goal, I believe we try to the best of our ability. That is all God asks. AcePlayer: every religionist claims their book is devoid of error and completely in accordance with the original. And again, I will stress, that in Iran for instance, suspected homosexuals are executed. During the time of the ottoman empire, it required quite a lot more than suspicion. If people want to live in a society where being the same is enforced by law, that's their business. But they shouldnt try to bring it here (western, progressive nations), or help the homegrown zealots grow. In response to that, I'd like to first find out exactly when and where it was considered just quirky to be a homosexual Christian. Biblical arguments against homosexuality haven't just materialized out of nowhere, they've been in there for quite some time. In the same way, it's been enforced for some time as well. It was never exactly just considered okay. Why cant people just be happy with their choice of religion? Why does it HAVE to be everyone else's as well? Why can't you be happy with our choice to believe in a Religion? The same reason that you don't want the spreading of Religion, its intolerance, is the very same thing you're practicing. Can anyone say hypocrisy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I'm totally happy with your choice to believe in a religion. I've never said "God, those stupid Christians, they should be athiests". What I've said is "God those stupid EVIL Christians, trying to dictate reality". Christians are, for the most part, evil people. Sorry. They should board up their glass houses before they start up their trebuchets. Jesus wanted his followers to GIVE. Christians ROB, CHEAT and STEAL. One thing to be said for Islam, is that almost all of those who actually claim to be Muslims really do practice what they preach. Jesus... save me from your fing followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebster Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 I have been wearing the veil for 2 years & from my 2 years of wearing it I have never felt that the veil had been a barrier or that it affects any community relations. I am able to talk just like any other person & people understand me the same way & I see this through their facial expressions & body language. This proves that the veil hasn't affected anything. I have been asked to remove my veil twice but this was after Jacks. comments. Noone has the right to tell anyone what to wear. Sarah, UK BBC:Have Your Say Only since Jack Straw made it an issue. What an idiot. As if people lives are not tough as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebster Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 Youtube: Muslim Women Veil This sister's arguments are straight on. And the hatred Jack Straw has created towards the Muslims is unforgivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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