cyclonefr Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 I use a pure VGA plug, and it still lag unless I flash my card. I thought real Macs didnt have this problems, isnt this report on Apple Forum talking about more or less the same issue? http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?t...94&tstart=0 They say it happens with 9600M GT, is that G92? I tried the fix proposed there and it didnt work (unsurprisingly). They are talking about DisplayPort to DVI adapters, there are reports here that there are less lag when running in VGA mode, and the fact the lag only seem to occur when QuickTime is running... well its just a guess but I think this problem could be related to DVI HDCP protection. There is no HDCP in VGA right? It would be interesting to find out if this mouse lag happens with a pure VGA connection (no DVI-to-VGA adapters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSman7 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Sorting out with DSDT I had another guess. Two ioregs above and mine had the same subsystem id, but mine had different subsystemvendor. In ioregs above subsystem vendor is NVIDIA (not a guess: it is the same as vendor id and you can see in sysprofiler that 0x10de means NVIDIA). It is explainable: they differ in bios. Before they had subsystem vendor ids of their cards manufacturers, but flashed with NVIDIA's bios. But as I mentioned above bios version remains the same as mine. Sooooo, this is a difference! This version of bios from manufacturers other than NVIDIA doesn't have 2D3D modes feature and it causes lags. OR OS is somehow detecting wrong bios version (maybe taken by default because of unability to detect, and most macs are now 2nd gen). Anyway, the only solution I see now is to get to know ioreg subsystem id of 8800GT 1st gen (it definitely has other bios and is recognizable by OS) and put it in DSDT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonefr Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 No, I tried to flash my original bios changing product ids, it's not checked by OSX and it's purely cosmetic. I'm pretty positive the issue isn't coming from the ids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny V Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 .......Something else you need to know is that you can simply edit these bios under Windows with Nibitor if you wanna overclock your card, or if it's an overclocked one, or even if it's a 8800 GTS 512 that is running on a higher frequency. If you wanna use the 2D3D.ROM, then don't touch the 2D part of it (idling part) because I tried and Windows or OSX won't boot anymore... Just touch the 3D frequency if you wanna change the default 8800 GT one. Now people with 8800 GTS 512 can use this bios to their original frequency. And maybe other G92 cards (9800 GTX might work, etc as long as you put your original clock. Please try and reports about these other G92 cards). ..... I just need a clarification of the above ! Since I have a dual boot (vista) can I modify/flash my nVidia 8800 512k GT Over Clocked using Nibitor or do I still need a bootable iso? If so what's the procedure using Vista/Nibitor? Thanks! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshunhiro Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Here's mine, sorry if it's overkill, not sure on the correct command to output to .txt IOReg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolrus Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Here's my IOreg dump if it helps. 8800GT (running two DVI monitors) flashed to cyclonefr provided BIOS which definitely has fixed my mouse lag problems. ioreg_output.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSman7 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 No, I tried to flash my original bios changing product ids, it's not checked by OSX and it's purely cosmetic. I'm pretty positive the issue isn't coming from the ids. Well, this do not help at the moment but I can say that they are NOT cosmetic definitely. Thanks to all who posted ioregs, I have enough of them to seek for info, and I already have some results of experiments. Now Mac Pros ioreg with the same videocard would ve helpful. Well, it seems like OS (i.e NVIDIA driver) really do not know sybsystem id and places the default one. In all ioregs and in my system with QE and hardware acceleration subsystem id was 10000000 although mine definitely has to be 70110000. Also, despite their videocards were made by different manufacturers, they all had 02060000 device id. I've acquired subsystem ids of both 1st gen and 2d gen from cyclonefr roms with help of NiBiTor. Every my attempt to write device id and subsystem id in DSDT resulted in glitches and bugs. There were no hardware acceleration, no QE, there were glitches and my device id and subsystem id showed as they ment to be: 11060000 and 70110000 (notice that this time subsystem id is not the default). Also video card was recognized as not known graphic adapter and displays as VGAs. This is not a result at all, but in this situation there were no lags . I guess this is the same as with AppleHDA. All g92 are working on the same driver as 8800gt in macs. And those cards have such bios ability. Update: Well, here it is. cyclonefr's 3D rom has device id 02060000, just like guys who posted ioregs and that's why they do not have lags. OS simply do not attempt to switch to 2D mode. And 2D3D rom has device id 11060000 (just like mine). And that is why OS is trying to switch to 2D mode in my case. Do not see how to settle this yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorazine74 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Unfortunately it is not related. It is a known bug fixed in Apple NVIDIA Graphic Update. I can see its not the same issue, but not related at all? the symptoms seem to be the same. And if you read the thread you will find it was NOT fixed for them by Apple Graphics Update. Well, it seems like OS (i.e NVIDIA driver) really do not know sybsystem id and places the default one. In all ioregs and in my system with QE and hardware acceleration subsystem id was 10000000 although mine definitely has to be 70110000. Also, despite their videocards were made by different manufacturers, they all had 02060000 device id. Device id will always be the same across different manufacturers, it comes from the chipset model. I use a pure VGA plug, and it still lag unless I flash my card. Well I guess that doesnt help my theory, but maybe the problem occurs because they are trying to find the hdcp handshake and they are doing it in a wrong way... This is all just speculation but anyways if we are looking to find what could be the difference between pc and mac nvidias I strongly believe we should not discard hdcp: Apple didnt support HDCP til very recent Macs, while most PC cards are HDCP compliant from long time ago, somehow they added something to recent nvidia drivers that doesnt play well with HDCP capable cards. The fact that it only happens with QuickTime on could be explained because HDCP might not be turned on by just plain desktop using but only when playing supposedly protected content through a external display. It doesnt happen with other media players apart from quicktime because they dont turn on HDCP. Are there any other media players for Mac that claim to support HDCP? Also to test this it would be interesting to find out laptops with G92/G84 chipsets, theoretically internal laptop screens dont need HDCP, so in this laptops you will only see mouse lag when using an external monitor. Is it posible to change the NVCAP of our injectors/EFI strings to make our external monitors look like they are internal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonefr Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Your theory seems interesting, but I tried to change the efi strings to make OSX think my monitor was internal, but lag still happened (in System Profiler, it says "Internal" or smthg like that = Yes). What is indeed true is G84M users don't have the problem at all .... Dunno about External screens but I guess you are right and they have the problem on those.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSman7 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Your theory seems interesting, but I tried to change the efi strings to make OSX think my monitor was internal, but lag still happened (in System Profiler, it says "Internal" or smthg like that = Yes). What is indeed true is G84M users don't have the problem at all .... Dunno about External screens but I guess you are right and they have the problem on those.... Cause it is simply trying to activate bios feature that bios do not have Didn't know how to overcome that my card's device-id is the same as 8800gt 2d gen, so crossed fingers and flashed my MSI 8800 GT with NVIDIA 2D3D.rom. Everything went fine and I tested card in GTA IV and Left 4 Dead. In GTA I did not see any changes and in Left there is perhaps a little bit better picture quality (better color I mean). And of course no lags!!!! And I guess it uses less energy now!! So, to this moment, ton of pluses and no minuses. Thanks cyclonefr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshunhiro Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Glad to see you got a good result OneSman7! I can't work out why mine didn't work but then again I didn't let it boot into an OS. I just got scared when I saw artifacts and mis-matched characters on POST. I figured even if OS X ID'd it and worked correctly then I may lose something in Windows. All this has become too much for me though and I have given up on Hackintosh. I'm going to get myself a 15" MBP and be done with it. Keep this thing as my gaming rig. Best of luck to you all and thanks everyone for your support and contributions to the community! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorazine74 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 img{-moz-force-broken-image-icon:1;} Your theory seems interesting, but I tried to change the efi strings to make OSX think my monitor was internal, but lag still happened (in System Profiler, it says "Internal" or smthg like that = Yes). What is indeed true is G84M users don't have the problem at all .... Dunno about External screens but I guess you are right and they have the problem on those.... Could it be that mac crossflashing disables hdcp in pc cards? Not sure how to test that, playing some blueray disc in pc requires hdcp I think... EDIT: CyberLink Blu-Ray Disc Advisor in Windows reports if your display is HDCP compliant, not sure if its accurate or not but maybe those with flashed cards can check if your card reports as HDCP. Page: http://www.cyberlink.com/prog/bd-support/diagnosis.do Download: http://download.cyberlink.com/ftpdload/tri...DT080429-01.exe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSman7 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 img{-moz-force-broken-image-icon:1;} Could it be that mac crossflashing disables hdcp in pc cards? Not sure how to test that, playing some blueray disc in pc requires hdcp I think... EDIT: CyberLink Blu-Ray Disc Advisor in Windows reports if your display is HDCP compliant, not sure if its accurate or not but maybe those with flashed cards can check if your card reports as HDCP. Last two points are red. Surprised me that I have Blu-Ray ready DVD . So, only in need of good software and possible change of display, cause Cyberlink claims that Blu Ray works even with VGA connection (it's a question of image quality). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorazine74 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Thanks for the report, anyone with a dvi connection and a flashed card tried it? You can play blu ray over vga without troubles but in the near future bd discs will restrict non-hdcp outputs to dvd-like resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSman7 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Thanks for the report, anyone with a dvi connection and a flashed card tried it?You can play blu ray over vga without troubles but in the near future bd discs will restrict non-hdcp outputs to dvd-like resolution. You might misread. I have flashed card and I use DVI connection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_2k Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Thanks for the report, anyone with a dvi connection and a flashed card tried it?You can play blu ray over vga without troubles but in the near future bd discs will restrict non-hdcp outputs to dvd-like resolution. I tested it under Vista 64bit using a flashed (3D.rom) Asus 8800GT connected to a DELL 2408WFP Flat Screen (DVI-D cable) and it failed the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysaor Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 You don't need to flash your card to fix the lag, try this: Remove /System/Library/Extensions/AppleUpstreamUserClient.kext This kext is responsible for HDCP DRM {censored}, it is only present in 10.5.6 systems. I tested in my system with 7.6 QTComponent and 10.5.6 NV drivers, no lag without this kext. Please confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny V Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 You don't need to flash your card to fix the lag, try this: Remove /System/Library/Extensions/AppleUpstreamUserClient.kext This works for me 100% Any negatives getting rid of AppleUpstreamUserClient.kext? Wasn't looking forward to flashing my 8800 GT Many Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stellarola Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 This works for me 100% Any negatives getting rid of AppleUpstreamUserClient.kext? Wasn't looking forward to flashing my 8800 GT Many Thanks! Agreed. So there is a god! :D Also, we need a disabler for this kext. EDIT: Tried adding the AppleUpstream to the Disabler.kext info.plist. It can't be disabled this way, at least from what I tried. Anyone want to give this a go? -Stell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leslieking Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I get this message in e-mail from a friend: Remove /System/Library/Extensions/AppleUpstreamUserClient.kext This kext is responsible for HDCP DRM {censored}, it is only present in 10.5.6 systems. I tested in my system with 7.6 QTComponent and 10.5.6 NV drivers, no lag without this kext. I'm not at home.. Someone test this thing for me? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stellarola Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I get this message in e-mail from a friend: Remove /System/Library/Extensions/AppleUpstreamUserClient.kext This kext is responsible for HDCP DRM {censored}, it is only present in 10.5.6 systems. I tested in my system with 7.6 QTComponent and 10.5.6 NV drivers, no lag without this kext. I'm not at home.. Someone test this thing for me? Thanks! It works, did you read the 5 or so posts above? -Stell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lensboard Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 You don't need to flash your card to fix the lag, try this: Remove /System/Library/Extensions/AppleUpstreamUserClient.kext This kext is responsible for HDCP DRM {censored}, it is only present in 10.5.6 systems. I tested in my system with 7.6 QTComponent and 10.5.6 NV drivers, no lag without this kext. Please confirm. I realize it fixes the mouse lag, but does it fix the QT player dropping frames etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny V Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I realize it fixes the mouse lag, but does it fix the QT player dropping frames etc? I haven't seen any. When does the frame dropping usually show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stellarola Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I added the AppleUpstreamUserClient.kext to the black list in this Disabler.kext thanks to Kabyl. So no need to delete the kext, just install this one and enjoy no mouse lag/stutter. Disabler.kext.zip -Stell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leoopardoo Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I added the AppleUpstreamUserClient.kext to the black list in this Disabler.kext thanks to Kabyl. So no need to delete the kext, just install this one and enjoy no mouse lag/stutter. Disabler.kext.zip -Stell Good to hear these goood news !! It seems that I'm going to extend my bunch of kexts hidden in EFI partition . Thanx ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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