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OSX 10.4.4


Kevlar
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I just called my buddy who works for Apple. They are realeasing a Universal 10.4.4 Install cd some time within 2 weeks. He didn't have an exact date. The current "restore/install" cds that come with the new iMacs are locked to those machines (not the specific machine, but the Intel iMac in general, like if you take a G5 install cd and try to install it on a G4, the installer won't run).

 

Hope this gives some insight and it looks like we wait a couple of weeks to even see if you can install 10.4.4 without EFI.

Edited by Kevlar
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I would take Kevlar's comments with a grain of salt. Why would Apple go through the expense of creating a universal install CD? They are no prior Macs that can be upgraded on the Intel side. It just does not make any sense for Apple to spend the time, money, and production costs to retool a DVD to be a "universal" version. IMHO the first universal install DVD we will see is 10.5. At least then there will be an exsisting Intel base that will need to be upgraded. Until then Apple has zero reason to create such a DVD...that is unless they WANT all of us white boxing our Macs.

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errandwolfe -

 

I am just reporting what I was told from my friend who is an Apple employee. It could not be true, or it could be. But all I know is he has the inside scoop and knows all the right people to ask. But he did confirm that as of right now he does have a 10.4.4 Intel install disc in his hands to give me this weekend. We will have to wait and see if it is truly Universal or not. But you have to remember that Apple is huge and it would not take that many resources for them to rework the install DVD to be Universal. And they would have to do it sooner or later, so why not get a jump start on it. 10.5 is a ways off still and they are realeasing Intel Macs, so IMHO now is a good time to switch there install DVD's to Universal. And on top of that as of right now you can only buy 10.4.3 Install DVD's from the Apple store. Usually, with the release of an update within 2 days you can buy that updated install DVD from the Apple store. So why is there a delay this time in realeasing 10.4.4 install DVD?

Edited by Kevlar
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Good job dude.But why isnt 10.4.4 out to torrents yet??Any ideas abt it?

 

Beacuse of what Kevlar told us. It is useless to try install dvd which is locked to one type of computer - in universal install DVD - there might be some things which aren't in restore dvd.

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i believe him. In a school or office they need a master install package that can reinstall the os and their apps all at once. Currently they would have to use the restore disc on each machine to do that and have 2 versions of osx one for the ppc and one for intel.

You bring up a good point, but I don't know how many schools are jumping right now to buy new IntelMacs. I can tell you having worked at a school, IT planning is usually done about a year in advance. Considering that a year ago an Intel Mac was pretty much a pipe dream to anyone outside Apple, I doubt many schools are planning to purchase Intel Macs this year. You add on to that many schools that have even G5's are still running apps made for OS 9 in Classic...Something you can't do on Intel Macs.

 

You top that off with the fact there are no LEGAL 10.4 Intels out there to upgrade and I see no reason for a universal disc before 10.5 is released. I can think of several strong reasons exactly why Apple would NOT want to create a Universal install disc. Now I may be wrong on all this, but considering the initial post was that it will be version 10.4.5 I am VERY skeptical. When have you seen a OS X revision update released less then a month after a prior release? A 10.4.4 Universal disc would have been a lot more believable.

 

Now if I am wrong, I will be happy to eat my own emoticons, jump in my car, and pick up a copy as soon as it hits.

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You bring up a good point, but I don't know how many schools are jumping right now to buy new IntelMacs. I can tell you having worked at a school, IT planning is usually done about a year in advance. Considering that a year ago an Intel Mac was pretty much a pipe dream to anyone outside Apple, I doubt many schools are planning to purchase Intel Macs this year. You add on to that many schools that have even G5's are still running apps made for OS 9 in Classic...Something you can't do on Intel Macs.

 

You top that off with the fact there are no LEGAL 10.4 Intels out there to upgrade and I see no reason for a universal disc before 10.5 is released. I can think of several strong reasons exactly why Apple would NOT want to create a Universal install disc. Now I may be wrong on all this, but considering the initial post was that it will be version 10.4.5 I am VERY skeptical. When have you seen a OS X revision update released less then a month after a prior release? A 10.4.4 Universal disc would have been a lot more believable.

 

Now if I am wrong, I will be happy to eat my own emoticons, jump in my car, and pick up a copy as soon as it hits.

 

 

I'm not so skeptical as you are, all Operating Systems are released in some time with their latest updates included here is a list of some of them:

 

Solaris 10 (03/05, 01/06)

Windows XP (SP1, SP2)

RedHat Enterprise 4 (Update 1, Update2)

Zeta OS (1.0, 1.1)

 

Even mac os has beeing released with their latest patches already included.

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You top that off with the fact there are no LEGAL 10.4 Intels out there to upgrade and I see no reason for a universal disc before 10.5 is released. I can think of several strong reasons exactly why Apple would NOT want to create a Universal install disc. Now I may be wrong on all this, but considering the initial post was that it will be version 10.4.5 I am VERY skeptical. When have you seen a OS X revision update released less then a month after a prior release? A 10.4.4 Universal disc would have been a lot more believable.

 

Read the original post again, doesn't appear to have been edited since posting.

 

I just called my buddy who works for Apple. They are realeasing a Universal 10.4.4 Install cd some time within 2 weeks. He didn't have an exact date. The current "restore/install" cds that come with the new iMacs are locked to those machines (not the specific machine, but the Intel iMac in general, like if you take a G5 install cd and try to install it on a G4, the installer won't run).

 

Hope this gives some insight and it looks like we wait a couple of weeks to even see if you can install 10.4.4 without EFI.

 

Kevlar

____________

 

Dual Boot X86 10.4.3 8f1111 and XPx64

Intel D945GNTLKR

Intel Celeron D 331 2.66GHZ

Corsair 1GB DDR2-533 PC2-4200

 

Surely you won't make us wait for a couple of weeks if you're going to find out for yourself this weekend are you?

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Read the original post again, doesn't appear to have been edited since posting.

Surely you won't make us wait for a couple of weeks if you're going to find out for yourself this weekend are you?

 

 

As soon as I get the DVD from my friend, I will gladly post my findings. It could be just an Intel 10.4.4 install disc, I will find out this weekend. I have some G4's to test it on and see if it's Universal. But according to the link above, if a patched 10.4.3 even installed on an iBook, even if it gave the beach ball of death, that would lead me to think that the 10.4.3 DVD is already Universal, I have a spare mac at work that I will try and update from a clean 10.4 PPC install tomorrow with a none patched 10.4.3 8f1111 dvd and let you know.

Edited by Kevlar
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if it is a 10.4.4 install disk, then you'll have the key we've been searching for. the 10.4.5 update is coming out soon, but it seems only a bugfix update (fixing problems with 10.4.4) so we'll still need to crack and install 10.4.4 for it to run. no-one has a 10.4.4 install disk... yet... :withstupid:

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I was able to boot and install a none patched version of 10.4.3 8f1111 Developer DVD on a G4 via a external firewire dvd drive. This means that the install DVD's are already Universal. So I don't see the reason the next batch of install DVD's wouldn't be. Looks like other people are able to do this too. Link

Edited by Kevlar
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The developer copies of OSX are already Universal, why not the retail copies? EFI sheds some light - Apple probably hadn't worked out the intricacies of having an EFI and OF booter on the same disc, hence the delay in buying 10.4.4 from Apple and the PPC-only Darwin 8.4 release.

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You bring up a good point, but I don't know how many schools are jumping right now to buy new IntelMacs. I can tell you having worked at a school, IT planning is usually done about a year in advance. Considering that a year ago an Intel Mac was pretty much a pipe dream to anyone outside Apple, I doubt many schools are planning to purchase Intel Macs this year. You add on to that many schools that have even G5's are still running apps made for OS 9 in Classic...Something you can't do on Intel Macs.

 

You top that off with the fact there are no LEGAL 10.4 Intels out there to upgrade and I see no reason for a universal disc before 10.5 is released. I can think of several strong reasons exactly why Apple would NOT want to create a Universal install disc. Now I may be wrong on all this, but considering the initial post was that it will be version 10.4.5 I am VERY skeptical. When have you seen a OS X revision update released less then a month after a prior release? A 10.4.4 Universal disc would have been a lot more believable.

 

Now if I am wrong, I will be happy to eat my own emoticons, jump in my car, and pick up a copy as soon as it hits.

 

Actually I have to disagree mate, My old school which I recently left ordered in 20 Intel iMacs. They are usually against ordering Rev. A machines but for some reason the head of ICT went ahead with it this time.

 

I doubt Apple will release a universal installer until 'Leopard' I believe 10.5 is nick-named. By Leopard I can honestly see OS X booting on non Apple Intel Macs being a no go. When have Apple ever failed to do something they set out to? And Apple already consider our little OSx86 project a problem for the company; you'll notice the iTunes from www.apple.com/itunes isn't even Universal yet, most probably out of concern for people like us getting a hold of it.

 

However, maybe Jobs will release the potential of taking over Windows if he releases OSx86 to the General Population; drivers however are another matter.

 

Another thing, the 10.4.4 installer is designed for EFI Systems is it not? Making it non bootable on all our standard BIOS PCs.

 

Call me paranoid, but here's what I suspect of Apple:

 

They released the Mac OS X 10.4 Intel Dev. DVD knowing fine well it would be hacked to run on normal PCs. Now when you think about it, there are a hell of a lot of developers, but what if you harness the testing of the hundreds, if not thousands of us who use it in the manner we do. We're testing their software for them without realising it, and they no doubt monitor forums such as this to see if anyone discovers bugs.

 

Steve Jobs is not an idiot. Had he intended to; OS X would never have set foot on a non Apple x86 system. Now that we've been bug testers and there are Apple Intel Machines in the General Public, he has no more need for us 'extra' testers, and will limit OS X to Apple's own intel machines, only.

 

Rgds,

Dave.

Edited by Solidus
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But, if it is a universal (PPC/Intel) DVD then the drivers included on the PPC side won't support EFI, I don't really see apple as a company abandoning all support for the PPC users for a long time yet, and so a universal disc would be a more than viable route to take, saving the cost of developing two seperate versions of the same disk.

And i highly doubt that the new mac desktops that will be released aren't gonna be configurable, so there is going to have to be SOME legacy support for people who wish to upgrade their systems in the future.

I think that EFI wrapping their software in this stage was to get it out there and onto the macbooks/imacs as fast as possible, and 10.4.4 is a trimmed version of the full OSX which should contain more support in the future.

 

So yeah whatever :S

 

Keep us posted!

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Yeah I agree they definetely will not abandon support for PowerPC users. It would be financially all-out stupid and Apple would loose the good reputation they've gained among their users for excellent support. I went out and bought a 14.1" iBook only a few months ago and I know I would be very, very pi**ed off if Apple took away support for PowerPC machines as early as Leopard. I expect PPC support will drop in 10.6, if Apple follows it's release patterns :

 

68k - Early, early apple systems :happymac: > Mac OS 8

PowerPC (if memory serves) System 7 > Present

 

As you can see, 68k kept up with PowerPCs operating systems up until Mac OS 8, which was a whole release ahead of when MacOS began to support PowerPC. If the same happens with OS X, PowerPC will keep up with Intel on the current release (which was System 7 in the 68k>PowerPC transition), then a whole release ahead which will be Leopard ( Mac OS 8 in the 68k > PowerPC transition ). After Leopard I believe PowerPC support will be dropped Operating Systems-wise, however many programs will be Universal Binary for a good long while before Intel completely replaces PowerPC.

 

I'm really interested to see how gaming will insue on the Intel Macs. The power that can be harnessed by these new macs would really benefit gaming. Imagine what Apple is going to do with the PowerMac Intel (DeskMac Pro or whatever the hell they're gonna call it :(). Dual, Dual-Core Pentium Ds with 4mb of L2 cache. The latest in GeForce or nVIDIA Quadro GFX. These machines have the potential to become the most powerful personal computers ever to be made. GO APPLE!

 

I'm also very interested to see where the Xserve is going. Intel Xeon XServes would be pretty cool. A distro as compatible and secure as Mac OS X Intel could be a potentially ownage server OS.

Edited by Solidus
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But, if it is a universal (PPC/Intel) DVD then the drivers included on the PPC side won't support EFI, I don't really see apple as a company abandoning all support for the PPC users for a long time yet, and so a universal disc would be a more than viable route to take, saving the cost of developing two seperate versions of the same disk.
If you look at the DVDs already released for DTKs there are two boot directories, one por PPC and one for i386, kext and programs content PPC and x86 code but is a different story about boot technics since PPC Macs uses a different scheme for disks than PCs. So maintaining a different boot options on the same DVD is not a problem even if they are complety different.
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