Windows really does SUCK! Lets HEAR The RANTS! ! !

[RedSox]

RedSox your a fool, Vista has issues, but your just trying to start a flame war.

If you really want to make a valid argument against vista or for os x get your facts straight.

 

 

Here's another example....

 

Streaming Online in OSX with Flip4Mac, if you are watching something .wmv, simply right click and it will save the entire program (e.g. baseball game) on Windows, you can't even pause media player, you can stop it, but no pause.

 

This thread was about XP, Vista was an after thought.

 

You can call me a fool, I don't care. I know I work in Los Angeles, an do content creation, audio, video. OSX is superior, pure and simple. The only reason some went to PC (creatives) was for Giga Studio and Acid, but now there are many programs that are MAC and PC, and windows doesn't come CLOSE to intergration with applications. Again, using ONE HD, d/l a large file, open a few programs, browser and watch it freeze.

 

Doesn't happen in OSX. Oh and am a EE, so its not my set up. I've seen this on mine and others computers. Also certified in dual computer sciences.

 

Regarding attention, its not that at all, its showin how Windows is really a bloated program. Sure, blame the 3rd party applications designers, but there in lies the beauty of Apple, all their apps are from the same company when it comes to large applcations.

 

In Vista, I could only take the POP up windows *do you want to allow, for so long. Must have been 15+ times in an hour. Turn it off and there goes the security.

[track09]

EFI, well written response, but Direct3D was depriciated in Vista for a new, far superior approach, which offers better framerates. (If people would RTFA that are posted).

 

EDIT: And that you love OSX

I do love OS X. But some people have better things to spend money on. (ex. Families, children, mortgages,) and need to look for the best performance/power price ratio they can get. I can't drop money whenever I want like that. There's also retirement savings too.

 

Try doing this on Windows then your Mac or Hackntosh.

 

Download a really large file to MAIN HD, then open a program or two. Sometimes, the delay can drive you insane.

 

On the mac however, it always seems as the OS is always a priority and you can do 10 things and it does not get bogged down. You can burn a DVD, download a large file, and mess around with a few programs without any slowness. I also tested this on the SAME HD type, so its not a matter of one having ATA and another SATA. Windows still BOGS down.

 

See, you sir, are what give Mac users a bad name. You say, Windows sucks at everything, and that "In my experience, mac does this 100x better". Really, it's a shame, there are a lot of nice people here, who can recognize things, and give fundemental reasons to OS X being better, not just with this stupid superficial unscientific stuff.

 

Here's where I think OS X shines:

System Requirements

Startup/Shutdown (huge difference)

Hardware management

Creativity software

More productive GUI design (top bar, and no background for apps like photoshop)

Better API

Xcode is nice

Great OOTBE

Consumer oriented hardware

Security

Awesome terminal with lots of unix goodies

 

I can name more if I so choose.

[RedSox]

RedSox your a fool, Vista has issues, but your just trying to start a flame war.

If you really want to make a valid argument against vista or for os x get your facts straight.

 

 

Fine,

 

here is an article from PC world!

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,129126-page,1/article.html

[hecker]

@track09:

chill out, bro. Nobody here takes these rant posts seriously anymore. All we want to do is yell at eachother, throw stuff around for a bit (you know, like ma and pa sometimes) and have some fun seeing people get pi$$ed . I don't seriously think that people here will change their minds on whatever OS they like to use (or whatever they want to spend their money on, for that matter) based on some pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo or half-witted responses. Half of the kids here couldn't care less about those things anyway.

So I tell you: lets break out that smelly green pipe I have in the basement, pass it around and get back to our normal relaxed selves again. 'You down?

 

Cheers,

 

hecker

[chenwk]

owell, what's the use of us getting into debates like this? i'm sure bill gates or steve jobs are not interested to know which is more superior. all they see is $$. =)

so let's just all chill abit, and just read the post light heartedly.

[RedSox]

@track09:

chill out, bro. Nobody here takes these rant posts seriously anymore. All we want to do is yell at eachother, throw stuff around for a bit (you know, like ma and pa sometimes) and have some fun seeing people get pi$$ed . I don't seriously think that people here will change their minds on whatever OS they like to use (or whatever they want to spend their money on, for that matter) based on some pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo or half-witted responses. Half of the kids here couldn't care less about those things anyway.

So I tell you: lets break out that smelly green pipe I have in the basement, pass it around and get back to our normal relaxed selves again. 'You down?

 

Cheers,

 

hecker

 

 

Amen! I didn't even mean this to be a flame war. I was trying to start a vent thread and thought people would vent on the differences.

Having just gotten into hacking this, I used OSX for a while. (We always had OS9 in the studio), but it seems like XP bogs down so easy, then I tried a Site License Vista and most, if not all of my HIGH END AUDIO DEVICES, not some cheesy $100 sound card, didn't even have drivers for Vista.

And FWIW, from an audio perspective, mixes (must be a coreaudio thing) sounds better, more warm, on a Mac than a Windows machine.

 

This has been spoken about many times at gearslutz.com (audio forum).

 

Anyway, I did not mean to start a flaming session. I thought people would jump in and say "yeah, here is what I don't like), besides, isnit this a OSX hack thread? Are windows defenders here just to give us a bad time? I use windows when I have to and that is frequent, but you have to ask, why is it, some major software (AUDIO/VIDEO) creators are slow to releasing Vista drivers, even though this thread was about XP, not Vista!

[hecker]

I call Round 2!!

 

RANT, RANT, RANT!

 

lol

 

PS: Sorry, I'm a little high.

[Forceman]

No, all i did was make clear points of the truth. How is what he says normal, when he says "it's teh bloat" without giving any facts, yet when I tell him to damn google about DirectX, and he'll find it's superior, that's fanboyism? I think your fanboyism shows in your lack of judgement.

 

You know your so full of {censored}, contradicting yourself, one minute your saying this ^ and next your saying this > ,

Well, besides DirectX being superior to OpenGL

 

EFI's post shut you up didn't it simply because you dont have the knowledge to even comment against it. Just face it, Windows is a friggin mess in regards to alot of things that it does and the way it's designed, people like you just cannot accept that it really does suck for alot of people.

[InflatableMouse]

I don't really care anymore what is faster or 'better'. It's all so subjective. I've been using computera for a LONG time (remember Tandy's TRS-80 with the Z80 cpu?, the intel 8008?) and then upgraded to a IBM clone, a 8080. Later a 286 and so on. I've been working in an IT related job since 1992 and the last years I've been managing large Windows environments and implementing and maintaining Citrix environments. I'm not your average neighnor so to speak and there aren't many things I can't fix if I can say so myself.

 

I think for the business Windows is a solid platform and very stable if you know what you are doing. For at home, I have so many frustrations and I regularly experiment with Linux distro's in an attempt to get away from Windows at home, but only to go back to windows after a few days/weeks because Linux is just not ready for daily use at home. I hung on to Ubuntu for a couple of months until dependency failures finally surfaced to spoil the fun. I have never been a Mac fan and actually was biased and prejudist about it. Apples just suck, altough I could never explain why because I had never even seen one. They just did.

 

Now that I can testdrive OSX86 on my PC I'm in Utopia. It's so usable, intuitive. Things "just work" and I find myself enjoying what I want to do instead of figuring out why a certain AVI thumbnail crashes my explorer. Or why JPG's no longer open in Paintshop pro 9 but in that lame fax viewer, or why something else is no longer working or why its using 600MB memory that I can't trace, or why my usb stick keeps popping up that annoying action screen even if I click 'do not ask again' and select 'take no action' or why a program won't uninstall or .. or ... or. I am managing Windows at work on a daily basis and I don't want to take that job home but with Windows at home I always find myself troubleshooting and fixing things that I don't want. Some people like doing that, and I admit I used to but not anymore. How often I have been reinstalling Windows the past year because I just didn't want to fix something I thought it was easier to just reinstall. Countless times. I find it so annoying to come home thinking 'let's watch those episodes I recorded last week'. I fire up the xbox360 and expect media center extender to 'just work' to show me my episodes. Except this time the screen goes black, the pc's HD is rattling wildly but nothing happens. then the message appears that the PC disconnected mediacenter bla bla. I came home to relax and watch that episode yet once again I find myself troubleshooting the hell out of my pc because for some misterous reason it no longer does what worked the day before. A couple of days ago I fixed the JPG file extentions *again* to open in Paintshop Pro. The next day I hooked up my camera, downloaded the new photos I took from my son. Wife and kids looking over my shoulder waiting for me to pop them onto the screen. The bloody files opened in fax viewer *again*. I turned off the pc ... I get so sick of {censored} like that. I watched some TV and played some football with my son.

 

God I hate Windows .....

 

Don't get me wrong. I can fix virtually any problem on my pc. I just don't want to anymore. I want something that 'just works' when I turn it on. I don't like surprises. I want it to do what I want when I want and spend time with my kids. OSX is doing that for the moment and if it keeps doing that on the long term I'll buy a Mac and dump the pc's with along with Windows.

[hecker]

Great post, InflatableMouse. It's nice to see old school computer pro's in here.

Rest assured that I will be poking you with questions in the future though

 

hecker

[chenwk]

i seriously agree with InflatableMouse. Like you, i could also be able to fix any problem on my laptop/desktop, but i am sick of having occasional surprises and spending time to fix it on windows. What i want is too, something that when i on my PC, it just simply works and doesn't have any second questions. (that's why my desktop is dead and i am not interested to fix it anymore. =X)

[track09]

EFI's post shut you up didn't it simply because you dont have the knowledge to even comment against it. Just face it, Windows is a friggin mess in regards to alot of things that it does and the way it's designed, people like you just cannot accept that it really does suck for alot of people.

 

You are the definition of a fanboy. Windows doesn't suck for anyone I know. Almost everyone I know uses it, and it does what they need, and they like that, something that doesn't require a cult following, and to get in the way with a "community". It gets the job done, and that's all it needs. All you techeads just want something more and more, and more... They've never had problems. Besides that, EFI's post didn't "shut me up". What happens is I have more important things to do besides argue with people who will go day and night defending their "community" to the death on every issue. All he did was take some write ups off the internet, and ram it together in a response. He didn't "know" more than me. The main reason I didn't respond about it? Well, a few reasons. First, I don't have the time to engage in a senseless debate. (Yes, I can look on the internet and find stuff too). Second, his post was highly inaccurate, as I friggin said above. He compared Direct3d to OpenGL. Direct3D was completely depriciated in DirectX 10, and there's a superior implementation of new technologies. In the end of the day, you simply cannot argue OpenGL puts out better framerates, or that it gives better performance, unless you want to look like an ass.

 

Now that I can testdrive OSX86 on my PC I'm in Utopia. It's so usable, intuitive. Things "just work" and I find myself enjoying what I want to do instead of figuring out why a certain AVI thumbnail crashes my explorer.

When finder has live previews in thumnails, get back to me. The reason for that is because it does offer the live previews. Windows leaves most of the corrupted files as the regular video icon, however, if it's corrupt. I added COM Surrogate to my DEP allowed list, and it was all fixed.

 

Or why JPG's no longer open in Paintshop pro 9 but in that lame fax viewer,

That's paintshop pro's fault, not Windows. And that lame fax viewer, gets the job done? And I think it's better than Preview, but that's just me.

 

I fire up the xbox360 and expect media center extender to 'just work' to show me my episodes. Except this time the screen goes black, the pc's HD is rattling wildly but nothing happens. then the message appears that the PC disconnected mediacenter bla bla. I came home to relax and watch that episode yet once again I find myself troubleshooting the hell out of my pc because for some misterous reason it no longer does what worked the day before.

You're blowing smoke. Things act up on Macs as well. As for the 360, do you use Avast antivirus? You need to tweak it a little to get the 360 Media center extender working properly.

As for the 360, what does {censored} me off is the lack of Video codecs.

Anyway, it's still better than the proprietary lockdown of the AppleTV.

 

I don't have any more problems on my PCs than I do with my Macs.

[EFI]

All he did was take some write ups off the internet, and ram it together in a response. He didn't "know" more than me. The main reason I didn't respond about it? Well, a few reasons. First, I don't have the time to engage in a senseless debate. (Yes, I can look on the internet and find stuff too). Second, his post was highly inaccurate, as I friggin said above. He compared Direct3d to OpenGL. Direct3D was completely depriciated in DirectX 10, and there's a superior implementation of new technologies. In the end of the day, you simply cannot argue OpenGL puts out better framerates, or that it gives better performance, unless you want to look like an ass.

 

Actually, I already knew the facts how Direct3D and OpenGL work before I verified it with Wikipedia. I'm not saying I know more than you, or that I'm a game developer who uses the API's, but as a general technology and programming curious individual, I think I certainly have more knoledge in these topics than the average joe's. First of all, Direct3D was not depriciated in DirecX10. Direct3D is the officlal API name, and DirectX is the display hardware communication name, just like how there is DirectDraw, however all of them fall under the category of Direct3D. You cannot have DirectPlay, DirecDraw, and not DirectX...they are held in a single API package. Professionaly speaking, when you compare OpenGL, you compare it to Direct3D, not DirectX, so it is incorrect to say DirectX vs OpenGL to begin with, as what you have done.

 

Secondly, saying that there is a superior implementation of technologies is just plain false. DirectX specifically only has 2 new features, and thats it. These are the support for shader model 4, and support for a new shader structure known as "unified shaders". What the latter does is essencially make the traditional pixel pipelines work more efficiently, by making them all pass through a series of hardware shaders (with the new addition of a geometry shader), rather than individual sets of texture and model data that get processed in pixel pipelines. That being said, is the only new features of Dx10, and SM4.0 isnt considered as all that impressive either, sine each iteration of DirectX supports the next level of shader model, this was only the usual update to the technology thats all, which leaves the only "true" new feature being support for Unified Shaders.

 

However, there are some features in DX10 that make it a step backward from DX9. One example being the drop of hardware accelerated audio . Dx10 now switches to software rendering mode of the audio. Another setback is that having unified shader insctruction sets programmed into the DirectX software means that graphics cards will now have to beef up their power than the past generation significantly. Therfore, a GeForce 8300 series will be extremely faster (much more faster than the normal generation upgrade speed, like going from the 6200 to the 7300) than a GeForce 7300 series, however the 8300 will still be priced the same as when the 7300 came out.

 

 

I dont think you quite understood my original post. OpenGL does infact put out better framerates than Direct3D, however due to its stringent API implementations, its not the best option for game developers. If graphics cards were to be at a standstill for ever into the future, then OpengGL would finish off DirectX no problem, but the fact is OpenGL is not as friendly in being accustomed to hardware changes (GPU wise) as DirectX is. Another reason why Windows users thing that OpenGL "sucks" is becuase they dont realize that windows has a crippled reference library for OpenGl, and this is a known fact, and even more crippled in Vista. This is why OpenGL's performance is not great under Windows, as it would be if it was optimized for OS X. Direct3D (DirectX) does not give better performance than OpenGL, and again, like I said before, the ideal example of this would be Quartz Extreme vs Aero. Furthermore, Windows Vista, even though increased Direct3D (DirectX) functionality to some degree...only now is it almost at the same degree of performance (when OpenGL is fully optimized and is done using proper reference libraries) as OpenGL. Apple further enhanced OpenGL's accessability in OS X by giving it runtime access to the direct user code, while Direc3D10 only now has marshalling support. This makes OpenGL under OS X access the kernel mode in the user space much, much faster...and in reality one step ahead of Windows Vista and Direct3D10 (DX10).

 

I don't have any more problems on my PCs than I do with my Macs.

 

I find that extremely hard of not impossible to believe.

 

 

[Khid]

I have to have both right now, but to be honest, I would never look back to Windows if:

 

Mac Hardware were more up-to-date and customizable. It's so over-priced and out-dated it makes me sick. But, that's because I know what I can buy for the same amount of money. No real customization options for CPU's and such. When/if the doors ever open up, I'm on a Mac; hell if I can't get OS X working right on my Quad PC, I'm on a Mac Pro immediately.

 

The same program support. There's a lot of stuff I have for Windows that won't even run under x64, certainly not OS X. And, as old as it is, I love my CS1.6. :DDDD

 

I am falling hard into video production in all facets and need to be able to use both OS's. But, OS X is pretty much nice.

 

Someone mentioned to me before that people who've come from Windows world tend to know a PC much better than those who've been in Mac land all their lives.

 

Considering how much people know on this forum, I'd have to say that's pretty much accurate; I'm happy to be a [stable] Windows user. :DDD

[Colonel]

I'm surprised someone hasn't made a "Macs really do SUCK! Lets HEAR The RANTS!!!" thread yet.

[EFI]

I'm surprised someone hasn't made a "Macs really do SUCK! Lets HEAR The RANTS!!!" thread yet.

 

Either ways...Windows will get the beating lol.

[apowerr]

Someone mentioned to me before that people who've come from Windows world tend to know a PC much better than those who've been in Mac land all their lives.

 

Considering how much people know on this forum, I'd have to say that's pretty much accurate; I'm happy to be a [stable] Windows user. :DDD

 

Agreed. A lot of mac users are ignorant, now a *ton* of windows users are ignorant but.. their not as vocal as mac users!

( not flaming here, just saying that ignorant mac users talk a lot more than ignorant windows users. but typically no one on this site is ignorant )

[track09]

However, there are some features in DX10 that make it a step backward from DX9. One example being the drop of hardware accelerated audio . Dx10 now switches to software rendering mode of the audio.

Why the **** would they do that? I mean really, what was their motivation? They depricated DirectSound for XACT (the xbox sound architecture) I can't for my life figure out why they'd DROP an accelerated hardware model of any kind...

 

Secondly, saying that there is a superior implementation of technologies is just plain false. DirectX specifically only has 2 new features, and thats it. These are the support for shader model 4, and support for a new shader structure known as "unified shaders". What the latter does is essencially make the traditional pixel pipelines work more efficiently, by making them all pass through a series of hardware shaders (with the new addition of a geometry shader), rather than individual sets of texture and model data that get processed in pixel pipelines. That being said, is the only new features of Dx10, and SM4.0 isnt considered as all that impressive either, sine each iteration of DirectX supports the next level of shader model, this was only the usual update to the technology thats all, which leaves the only "true" new feature being support for Unified Shaders.

Actually, DirectInput was depricated, and replaced with Xinput, again, the Xbox input model. No big deal. The fact here is that the new DirectX relies substantially more on things such as shaders and that stuff.

 

If graphics cards were to be at a standstill for ever into the future

And there's the big "IF". Without that if satisfied, right there makes DirectX superior as a PRODUCT, not neccisarily on overall code.

 

Another reason why Windows users thing that OpenGL "sucks" is becuase they dont realize that windows has a crippled reference library for OpenGl, and this is a known fact, and even more crippled in Vista. This is why OpenGL's performance is not great under Windows, as it would be if it was optimized for OS X

OpenGL under Xp wasn't TOO bad, but under Vista, it's hideous. I think that's a disgrace and anti-competitive by Microsoft on that part. They should offer better OpenGL support on Vista. It is really bad. I remember pre-release versions of Vista, and the overwhelming complaints about OpenGL support.

 

Side note: I watched a demo on youtube the other day, about a mult-core OpenGL engine for OS X that Apple's working on, really looks nice.

 

the ideal example of this would be Quartz Extreme vs Aero

Yea, what about it?

 

much faster...and in reality one step ahead of Windows Vista and Direct3D10 (DX10).

Then why do DirectX games in Windows outperform OpenGL games in OS X. Or OpenGL windows games outperform OpenGL OS X games? Don't tell me you're trying to push OS X as a superior gaming platform.

[Forceman]

Personal Attacks Are simply bad - stick to the issues - Moderator

 

I live in that real world doing technical support for new PC's some time back.

 

You think Windows dont suck, go get a job on technical support, it will open your eyes to the fact that Windows sucks real bad and it's not as easy as claimed to the average joe.

 

If you say DirectX is superior well it's tied into Windows, it's not cross platform, how would it compare on other platforms, well we will never know. DirectX is a Windows technology, it makes it easier to develop games on Windows, oh wait did I forget to say it was a Windows technology. Directx is a useless technology, at least OpenGL can be deployed on multiple platforms easy enough, directx Windows only makes it null and void to say it's a superior API.

[hecker]

@track09: It's not depricated but deprecated, bro. Just thought I'de mentioned it seening how you like to use that word so much

 

hecker

[InflatableMouse]

When finder has live previews in thumnails, get back to me. The reason for that is because it does offer the live previews. Windows leaves most of the corrupted files as the regular video icon, however, if it's corrupt. I added COM Surrogate to my DEP allowed list, and it was all fixed.

I don't care anymore how to fix it. Besides, it's not a fix it's a workaround. What bothers me is that explorer crashes on a thumbnail while I told it to NOT us thumbnail view. So I change it *once again* but a few clicks later Windows sees something that makes it decide to switch to filmstrip or thumbnail view *again*. I'm getting so sick of {censored} like that. Who's in charge?

 

That's paintshop pro's fault, not Windows. And that lame fax viewer, gets the job done? And I think it's better than Preview, but that's just me.

No it's not PSP's fault it's Windows' XP and Vista's fault. They changed the way known file extensions for pictures work. It's an annoying 'feature' (search that site for jpg & fax viewer).

 

Personal preference has got nothing to do with annoyances. Sure it gets the job done and for what I care it's the best friggin' program for the job but I want something else. Who's computer is it? I want it to do what I want it's as simple as that.

 

You're blowing smoke. Things act up on Macs as well. As for the 360, do you use Avast antivirus? You need to tweak it a little to get the 360 Media center extender working properly.

As for the 360, what does {censored} me off is the lack of Video codecs.

Anyway, it's still better than the proprietary lockdown of the AppleTV.

HAHA! I need to tweak Windows to get it to work? Now that is funny! HAHA you are so right because that's what you'll be doing on Windows. Tweak tweak tweak tweak. Let me tell you something: I Don't want to tweak! And this has got nothing to do with AV software. It's about Windows and it's quirky ways. The HTPC running MCE is dedicated, clean install nothing else, good hardware of major brands. One day it works and another day it doesn't. I want it to just WORK! It works today, it'll work tomorrow and if it can't do that it's quirky, it's buggy ITS WRONG!

 

You complain about the codec support on the xbox, and that pisses you off huh? That's what I don't understand. It's in the specs, you know that before you buy it. Don't like it don't buy it, how much simpler can it be? How can that {censored} you off? How crazy is that? And I'm the one blowing smoke? How funny is that?

 

I just checked my Vista and xbox documentation. Nowhere it says that MCE randomly stops working or that it needs 'tweaking'. Nowhere. Going over all M$ advertising it should 'just work' .. hehe dream on! You are the one blowing smoke if you ask me.

 

I don't have any more problems on my PCs than I do with my Macs.

Then either you have a magic pc or you've screwed up your mac!

 

 

Hey, don't take it personal, oke? I'm just extremely frustrated with Windoze not with you. I understand what you are saying and a few years ago I was no different. It just needs tweaking. I actually said "you just need to know what you are doing". I take it back. Now I say "It just needs to work"

 

Again, no offense intended. Just venting frustration.

[EFI]

Actually, DirectInput was depricated, and replaced with Xinput, again, the Xbox input model. No big deal. The fact here is that the new DirectX relies substantially more on things such as shaders and that stuff.

 

Well, the reason why Microsoft replaced DirectInput with Xinput was because it was simply easier to code on, and also added the functionality of the Xbox controller to be used in Windows. The new DX10 does not just rely "substantially" more on shaders....it relies 100% on shaders only, and the more that are avaliable on the graphis card, the better. But again, the upside here, is that the newer Dx10 GPU's will offer way more power for whatever its previous generation predecessor card was. The downside here, is that it will {censored} off nVidia and AMD/ATI, because of the inconsistency in power distribution amongst their family of cards. Its not like previous generations of cards, where each generation got a bit faster, and a bit faster, and a bit faster.....the Dx10 generation of cards will be extremely faster than the previous generation.

 

And there's the big "IF". Without that if satisfied, right there makes DirectX superior as a PRODUCT, not neccisarily on overall code.

 

See the thing is you cant really call it (Dx10) a superior product. Its more like mass-produced/mass used product. That does not necessarily correlate it to being better, if you know what I mean. The term superior includes having a better code, more flexible (ie cross platform), much richer library, and increased efficiency...however none of these would apply to Direct3D10, atleast when you compare it to OpenGL, therfore it would make it inferior. Most people think that because DirectX is used in pretty much every game, it therfore has to be better than OpenGL. Heck Mac users aside, the pretty much most of the windows population dont even know what OpenGL is, let alone its advantages and disadvantages. I just like to correct those that might be thinking in this sort of way thats all, because its believing in fallacy if anything.

 

OpenGL under Xp wasn't TOO bad, but under Vista, it's hideous. I think that's a disgrace and anti-competitive by Microsoft on that part. They should offer better OpenGL support on Vista. It is really bad. I remember pre-release versions of Vista, and the overwhelming complaints about OpenGL support.

 

This is indeed very anti-competitive. However, truth be told, this his how Microsoft works, so its no surprise. The reason why Microsoft didnt attempt to just buy SiG was because they already had a good gaming API, but OpenGL is a noticible threat to their proprietory Direct3D, as clearly seen by this move, and if history means anything...Microsoft will usually (obviously not in this case) buy the company that is threatning them...and then screw them over afterwards by crippling/reducing support. Its how their chilling monopoly has always worked.

 

Side note: I watched a demo on youtube the other day, about a mult-core OpenGL engine for OS X that Apple's working on, really looks nice.

 

This is actually kind of old news. Apple already incorporated the multi-core OpenGL engine into 10.4.7 itself. Neverthless though, it is very much still impressive. There have been results of having significant increase in performance in games like WoW as a result.

 

Then why do DirectX games in Windows outperform OpenGL games in OS X. Or OpenGL windows games outperform OpenGL OS X games?

 

They don't. You have to take into consideration of the game developers that originally make the game. If they were originally made or designed for DirectX API's, then you can guarantee that the developer will not optmize the OpenGL version (Just look at call of duty 2). The only game maker who I am aware of that develops natively in OpenGL, is id software. They actually optimize the OpenGL version of their games under OS X, because they know how to properly program natively. Playing Doom 3 on a MacPro with a Radeon X1900XT under OS X, will run just as fast as running Doom 3 in Windows. Again, it strictly depends on the game developer here.

 

 

Don't tell me you're trying to push OS X as a superior gaming platform.

 

Hell no, I would never say that. Windows is still a much better gaming platform, this is obvious. Just because I'm pointing out the advantages of OpenGL, and trying to bring the "real picture" into light as to which API is better, does not mean I'm all of a sudden touting OS X as a superior gaming platform. Again, if you look at my first post, I stated the reason why its not in the best interests for game developers to create OpenGL games...but when they do put their time and effort into it....you get a megahit, like what happened in 2004 with Doom 3.

[InflatableMouse]

Again, if you look at my first post, I stated the reason why its not in the best interests for game developers to create OpenGL games...but when they do put their time and effort into it....you get a megahit, like what happened in 2004 with Doom 3.

Wait .... wasn't that a big dissapointment? I wasn't there when it came out for the Mac and haven't spent any time investigating but it was the first thing I downloaded when I had my nvidia drivers working for OSX86. The performance was BAD and visually ... don't get me started.

 

I did a quick search and read something that the time to market was really pushed and there was no time to really optimize the game. I'll dig up a link if I get the time.

 

I then had a look at Myst V (really don't like the game, just wanted to see it run) and that was much better, both performance and qualitywise.

 

Maybe I did something wrong with Doom 3? I know on Windows it generally ran very good.

[hecker]

God, I love this thread. You get to learn so much cool stuff!

 

hecker

[EFI]

Wait .... wasn't that a big dissapointment? I wasn't there when it came out for the Mac and haven't spent any time investigating but it was the first thing I downloaded when I had my nvidia drivers working for OSX86. The performance was BAD and visually ... don't get me started.

 

Why the hell would you try and play the game on a Hackintosh to begin with? Thats just pointless. Moreover, you probably never had OpenGL support in the nvidia drivers (which I'm guessing you got from Macvidia). Obviously the performance is going to be slower than playing it on Windows. Play it on a real mac and under real OS X (that has a good graphics card like the Macbook Pro, iMac, or Mac Pro) and then you'll know how well it performs.