Jump to content

Greatest albums of all time?!?

Swad

By Swad,
in The Big Issues [Real Life]

 Share
65 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

DrJägermeister
DrJägermeister
Posted
Posted
no particular order:

 

Nirvana Nevermind

Böhse Onkelz All Albums except Dopamin ;)

Slipknot Self Titled

Pantera Reinventing the Steel

MachineHead HellAlive

 

:D:gun::D

Very good sound, it seems that only we Germans don't like the Beatles :)

The rest of the world is Beatles fan ? :blink:

sulfo
sulfo
Posted
Posted
Very good sound

 

thx! u too :gun:

 

it seems that only we Germans don't like the Beatles

 

it's not that i don't like the beatles they have some ok songs, however i don't think they made one of the greatest albums of all time... (besides their record label keeps trying to give apple a hard time ;) )

 

The rest of the world is Beatles fan ?

 

seems so :blink:

Swad
Swad
Posted
  • Author
Posted

On the point about old music...

 

I think it's that those albums have been around for a long enough time that they've been seen to have an influence. Newer artists don't have that luxury, but I think that only in retrospect can you see what's truly the greatest.

 

Anyway, that's my :blink:

 

And in honor of this thread, a new smily: :gun:

parch
parch
Posted
Posted

well, im german and i love the beatles... :P

 

 

thx! u too :blink:

it's not that i don't like the beatles they have some ok songs, however i don't think they made one of the greatest albums of all time... (besides their record label keeps trying to give apple a hard time ;) )

seems so :withstupid:

 

irony: i heard steve jobs is a big beatles (and btw bob dylan) fan...

Guest terry
Guest terry
Posted
Posted
no particular order:

 

[...]

 

Böhse Onkelz All Albums except Dopamin ;)

 

[...]

 

:D:blink::D

 

and

 

Very good sound, it seems that only we Germans don't like the Beatles :P

The rest of the world is Beatles fan ? :withstupid:

Interesting to see that this Nazi cult band is so popular among some German members of this forum. Simply disgusting. Well, at least their songs on "Germany to the Germans", bomber pilots, squashing boots and turkish {censored} were all quite influential in Germany in the Nineties, this is correct, yes. I wonder which songs on the demo tapes and first albums you all like best (particularly the albums, since you didn't exclude those)? Anyway, it's safe to say that the white trash, conspiracy-theory-laden right-wing schmaltz they produced since then didn't really improve over that very much -- from an artistic point of view, that is.

 

Since we've got a pretty eclectic group here, I'm curious to see what ya'll think...

 

What are the top 5 greatest music albums of all time? (And by greatest, I mean most influential, most musically creative, etc. All of those are a factor)

 

What say you?

Speaking about creativity, I for my part am pretty much interested in music that is generated mostly without the interference of wetware.

 

* Virtual Bach: Experiments in Musical Intelligence

(awesome)

 

* Virtual Mozart: Experiments in Musical Intelligence

(would make a nice gift to Mozart lovers in this anniversary year)

 

* Bach by Design: Computer-Composed Music

 

* Classical Music Composed by Computer: Experiments in Musical Intelligence

 

http://arts.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/

http://arts.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/experiments.htm

 

A collection of MP3s:

http://arts.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/mp3page.htm

One of my favorites:

Invention (After Bach)

ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/cope/invention.mp3

 

Midi-files:

ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/cope/Midfiles/

One of my EMI-favorites (yes, I am a big Bach fan):

ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/cope/Midfiles/MI-bach-fugue.mid

 

5000 Bach-style chorals:

http://arts.ucsc.edu/faculty/cope/5000.html

 

Much more stuff, including scores:

ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/cope/

sulfo
sulfo
Posted
Posted
One of my favorites: [that this Nazi cult band is so popular among some German members of this forum. Simply disgusting. Well, at least their songs on "Germany to the Germans", bomber pilots, squashing boots and turkish {censored} were all quite influential in Germany in the Nineties, this is correct, yes. I wonder which songs on the demo tapes and first albums you all like best (particularly the albums, since you didn't exclude those)? Anyway, it's safe to say that the white trash, conspiracy-theory-laden right-wing schmaltz they produced since then didn't really improve over that very much -- from an artistic point of view, that is.

 

seems you haven't followed the history of this band long enough. true they had some songs at the beginning of their 25+ year career that were politcally questionable. they later on distanced themselves from their errors of the past. most argue here: once extreme right wing (i don't want to use the term nazi here) always extreme right wing...

 

in the later years they clearly stated that extremism whether it be right or left wing politically or even any other form of radicalism (religious for example) is wrong.

 

plus i think a lot of people overate any political comments in their songs. i listen to them since in my opinion their guitar solos for example offer way more than any other german alternative rock band be it die toten hosen or die ärzte...

 

i personally think it's funny that people today still complain about songs the onkelz wrote and performed almost 30 years ago but nobody seems to care when 10 year olds (like my cousin) listen to aggro berlin whose lyrics are at least as bad...

 

 

let me add another album i think is one of the greatest of all time:

 

Rage against the Machine RATM

 

greetz! :):dev:

Guest terry
Guest terry
Posted
Posted
seems you haven't followed the history of this band long enough.

Oh yes, I have.

 

some songs at the beginning of their 25+ year career that were politcally questionable.

Don't let us forget that exactly because of these "songs" their "career" took off. Besides that, these songs aren't just "politically questionable" or "provocative". They're simply downright inhuman, racist and nationalist.

 

Hey, you jew, old swine - (sorry, mod edit - I get your point but the language is a little too much) .

 

Turks go home, Turks go home, Turks go home, Turks go home,

Turks go home, Turks go home, all the Turks have to go!

Unshaved Turk (another mod edit - you get the idea) Pack of Turks, pack of Turks, leave our country!

Go back to Ankara because you make me sick!

Wearing pinstripe suits,

carrying plastic bags,

collecting rags,

propagating diseases!

 

Anyway, while it is correct that they went "mainstream" long ago and their works cannot be considered extremist anymore, their music is still subtly informed by right-wing attitudes.

 

i personally think it's funny that people today still complain about songs the onkelz wrote and performed almost 30 years ago but nobody seems to care when 10 year olds (like my cousin) listen to aggro berlin whose lyrics are at least as bad...

That's simply not true. The growing influence of right-wing politics on German pop music is in fact considered a big problem in Germany and has been dicussed for years.

 

Some examples:

 

Rap music and the far right: Germany goes gangsta

A new wave of rap music is sweeping Germany: sexist, violent, often racist - and adored by neo-Nazis. Ruth Elkins reports on the alarming advance of the shock troops of popular culture

http://www.turnitdown.de/489.html

http://www.ezilon.com/information/article_8042.shtml

 

Interview mit Bushido, Loh, Güngör

Harte Texte und die Härte der Nazis

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/artikel/666/55611/

 

Poschard, Ulf: "Stripped. Pop und Affirmation bei Kraftwerk, Laibach und Rammstein." Die Beute 3 (1999): 54-67.

 

Weber, Annette: "Miniaturstaat Rave-Nation. Konservatismus im Kontext der Techno-Community." Mainstream der Minderheiten. Pop in der Kontrollgesellschaft. Ed. Tom Holert, Mark Terkessidis. Berlin, Amsterdam: Edition ID-Archiv, 1996. 41-54.

 

(Moderator edit - Terry, I'm not particulary sensitive or prudish but it looks better if you can *** out some of the more basic four-letter words. Also the graphic bit about the gas chambers offended some of our readers - sorry to carve up your post but I think your point is still made. -Metrogirl.)

sulfo
sulfo
Posted
Posted
Don't let us forget that exactly because of these "songs" their "career" took off.

 

I'll admit that there will always be a market for music with neo-fashist lyrics, but just I really can't imagine as it being big enough to make a band as big and popular as it is today. There are of course also small record labels that have, do and will take "Nazi Bands" under contract.

 

In order to sell millions and millions of records though a band would need to be part of a far bigger record label such as Virgin (which is the Onkelz record label i believe). Especially in Germany I think a record label can't afford to take a "Nazi Band" under contract. As a German it's hard enough to show pride of being German without being hastily labelt as downright right wing nationalist. Just imagine what an uproar it would create if it would be decided to have a "Pledge of Allegiance" every morning at school... Except for the recent ad campaign "You are Germany" I haven't noticed a lot of public statements like the popular "Proud to be an American" Bumper Sticker pin whatever... Nor have I ever encountered a "Nation Spirit Day" at school as I have in the states... Now if a major German record label would take a "Nazi Band" as the Onkelz under contract don't you think they'd get slaughtered by the media as neo-fashist record label?

 

Anyway, while it is correct that they went "mainstream" long ago and their works cannot be considered extremist anymore, their music is still subtly informed by right-wing attitudes.

 

I haven't really noticed any more right wing attitudes as can be regulary read in BILD or Focus... Which are close to CDU/CSU so they should be considered rather middle right wing right? I guess more can't be said about the Onkelz political stance today... If they should me more right wing, I wonder why their main roadie, which they've had for years is Hindi.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't approve at all of the early Onkelz songs (By the way: Great effort translating the lyrics on your side), but I still consider them neutral (politically) today and think that they have more interesting instrumentals than die ärzte for example.

 

That's simply not true. The growing influence of right-wing politics on German pop music is in fact considered a big problem in Germany and has been dicussed for years.

 

True, there were some articles relating to that issue in Spiegel, TAZ, Sueddeutsche and others. However talking to the average Joe out on the street, I'll bet that if you ask for a "Band with extreme nationalist tendencies" 8 of 10 would name Onkelz and maybe 1 Aggro Berlin and bands of that sort...

 

Besides that, these songs aren't just "politically questionable" or "provocative". They're simply downright inhuman, racist and nationalist.

 

I didn't quite find these words, my englisch is rather rusty nowadays since it don't speak it too much anymore, sorry...

 

I guess this discussion could go on for days without ever coming to a "solution", so I guess its best to each recognize and maybe tolerate the others opinion.

 

Offering truce so to say :withstupid:

 

[OT] Interesting mp3s you linked by the way [/OT]

 

 

 

as for artistic creativity i think hommage would have to be paid to the prodigy - the fat of the land

 

the first "elektropunk" if you will

DrJägermeister
DrJägermeister
Posted
Posted
Interesting to see that this Nazi cult band is so popular among some German members of this forum. Simply disgusting.

The Böhse Onkelz are definitively not a nazi Band, they made a benefit concert against racism.

The Lyrics you posted are some old stuff before their career begun witch is not relevant. Also In songs like “Hässlich, brutal, gewaltätig” (Ugly, brutal, violent) they are singing that they are NOT nazis. In songs like “Deutschland im Herbst” they are singing that nazis are stupid idiots.

I just take a look at a CD from 1986 (the pic), some songs on it are extremely violent but not racist. Maybe some songs like “Fussball und Gewalt” (soccer and violence) and “Mexico 86” (the soccer World cup 1986 was in Mexico) are cult songs for agressiv hooligans but NOT for Nazis. Many rappers are singing to sell drugs and kill someone with a gun (and no one is complaining :offtopic: ), so I think it’s OK that a rock band sing about soccer and violence.

The Böhse Onkelz has made over 20 years really good music and is just a cult band. I like them and I’m not a nazi just because I hear them and I’m German.

One of my favourite CD’s from the Onkelz (sorry for the bad scan I made):

onkelz8ea.th.jpg

 

BTW, it's just music nothing else :)

Guest terry
Guest terry
Posted
Posted
The Böhse Onkelz are definitively not a nazi Band, they made a benefit concert against racism.

They have a cult status among neo-Nazi listeners. The fascist recordings in question (to which they do not hold any rights, interestingly) are still popular and being sold to their Nazi fan crowd. Pulicly they condemn Nazism, but at the same time they characterize themselves as "unpolitical" and do not care about fascist fans as long as they "behave themselves".

 

The Lyrics you posted are some old stuff before their career begun witch is not relevant

I think the lyrics speak for themselves, and if someone made "recreational" music that is favorably speaking about the killing of Jews and disparaging other minorities, this does matter and is relevant. Even more so when those same people renounce their history, but nonetheless continue to pursue an ultra-conservative agenda.

 

they made a benefit concert against racism.

They are not openly racist anymore, but as I wrote above, their lyrics are still very much influenced by right-wing attitudes, such as pronounced masculinity, hatred of society and some sort of ghetto mentality that is fueled by conspiracy theories and some weird ideas about blood and honour.

 

they are singing that they are NOT nazis

I didn't mean to say they were Nazis, but that they had and have a cult status among Nazis and other extreme right-wing listeners. They were indeed fascists, and they still continue to espouse such right-wing attitudes as I delineated above through their music.

 

I'll admit that there will always be a market for music with neo-fashist lyrics, but just I really can't imagine as it being big enough to make a band as big and popular as it is today.
it's just music nothing else

The problem with Onkelz, Aggro Berlin, and bands like Rammstein playing with nationalist, racist and even fascist symbols is that they close the gap between the mainstream and the extreme right wing. It is not O.K. to play down German history, especially not in a time in which growing right-wing extremism poses a challenge to German society. Hell, there are even complete towns in East Germany nowadays that are more or less controlled by neo-Nazis.

 

January 31, 2005

THE THREAT OF THE NPD

Rise of German Right-Wing Party Evokes Ghosts of Past

By Roland Nelles and Gabor Steingart

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/internatio...,339604,00.html

 

What these bands do is particularly harmful in view of the present agenda of extreme right-wing groups whose goal is to inject elements of their thinking into mainstream culture. That's the ultimate purpose of periodicals like the weekly "Junge Freiheit" ("Young Freedom"), to close the gap between conservatives and neo-fascists and thereby popularize neo-fascist ideas among those conservatives.

 

http://lexikon.idgr.de/j/j_u/junge-freihei...ge-freiheit.php

http://www.idgr.de/texte/rechtsextremismus.../jf-autoren.php

 

Onkelz, Aggro and Rammstein do receive a very warm welcome in these circles as they play directly into their hands.

 

»Das 'Deutsche'« bei Rammstein, jubelte die Junge Freiheit vor drei Jahren, »dient als Chiffre und Symbol des Unheimlichen, auch als ironisches oder provokantes Zitat. Sie sind (...) Symptom eines ästhetischen Paradigmenwechsels, der allmählich, sehr allmählich stattfindet.«

 

Translation:

"The 'Germanness'" in Rammstein, the 'Junge Freiheit' rejoiced three years ago, "serves as a cipher and symbol of the uncanny, and also as an ironic and provocative device. It is (...) the symptom of an aesthetic paradigm shift that is slowly, only very gradually taking place."

Gelobt sei, wer affirmiert

Die »Neue Deutsche Härte« provoziert nicht, sie ist völkisch geerdet. Und das macht sie so erfolgreich. von daniel pagórek und dj kersten

http://www.nadir.org/nadir/periodika/jungl...2000/26/05a.htm

 

Feuer, das in Lust verbrennt

Musik: Nach vier Jahren ist ein neues Rammstein-Album rschienen

http://www.jf-archiv.de/archiv01/171yy32.htm

 

The problem is as follows, just like German pop critic Diederich Diederichsen has once pointed out: Musicians can't in fact do anything about racism or fascism in the world. They can, however, make sure that their works of art, which naturally involve ambiguity to a certain degree, cannot be decoded "the wrong way", i.e., in a fascist sense.

 

The Onkelz continue to identify themselves as "unpolitical". In some of their songs they despise Nazism, but also anti-fascism. Their lyrics are still marked by a huge influence of fascist topoi, so this makes their statements look rather odd in the end.

 

I think it’s OK that a rock band sing about soccer and violence.

It is not O.K. to glorify chauvinism and violence without any critical inclinations. That said, inform yourself about the beginnings of the Nazi-skinhead movement in Germany. Its roots lie exactly in the hooligan subculture around those rock bands, the most prominent of them being the Onkelz. Political ring-wing extremism and hooligan subculture are still very much intertwined in Germany and in Europe in general, just have a peek at Italy where it is even worse.

 

Many rappers are singing to sell drugs and kill someone with a gun (and no one is complaining :) )

No, that isn't true. Gangsta Rap continues to stir big controversy in the US and abroad. Just read some of the clever essays or record reviews by the great cultural critic Greg Tate which appear regularly in the Village Voice, for instance. Or take note of such institutions like the Hip Hop Summit Network (motto: "Taking back responsibility"). And while speaking about that, I want to point out that at least early Gangsta Rap (not the contemporary, overly commercial stuff) has some merits as it sparked discussion on the devastating life circumstances of underprivileged inner-city blacks. Please also note that this African-American art form is rich of double-meanings and word-play, known as "signifyin'" (ever heard of 'playing the dozens'?), so you can never be sure what to take literally and what not. This vernacular is definitely not part of the culture that European right-wing rockers or even some German hip-hop flatheads draw from.

 

Again, here are some resources which I was referring to in particular on this matter:

 

Married to the Hook

The corporations murdered hiphop and all I got was this lousy G-Unit throwback jersey

by Greg Tate

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0511,tate1,62025,22.html

(Greg Tate's witty review of 50 Cent's hit album 'The Massacre', pretty funny and very much on point)

 

Hiphop Turns 30

Whatcha celebratin' for?

by Greg Tate

January 4th, 2005 3:23 PM

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0501,tate,59766,2.html

 

Gates, Henry Louis, Jr.: The Signifying Monkey. A Theory of Afro-American Literary Criticism. Oxford, New York et. al.: OXford University Press, 1988.

http://prelectur.stanford.edu/lecturers/ga...pts/monkey.html

 

“Signifying,” according to the Oxford Companion to African American Literature, is a form of verbal play, centering primarily on the insult, whereby people can demonstrate a mastery of improvisational rhyme and rhythm; the demonstration of such verbal mastery is a mechanism for empowerment within communities where other forms of power–political, economic–are unavailable. Gates links this practice to the mythological figure of the Signifying Monkey, who is able to trick the more powerful animals in the jungle through his verbal skills. Gates points out that the link between the Signifying Monkey and the practice of signifying works in at least two directions: the figure, and the practice, come directly from African cultural mythology, and variants can be found in virtually all communities with African origins; and the figure of the Monkey in particular plays on the racist construction of Africans as like apes, therefore less human than whites. The Signifying Monkey thus takes a trope, a figure, from the white racist idea of blackness and reaccentuates it, renames it, signifies on it, so that “monkey” no longer means an inferior, i.e. black, person, but rather represents a person with verbal power and the ability to stir up conflict between those who have more social power than he does.

 

Gates places the Signifying Monkey at the borders of “correct,” i.e. hegemonic, dominant cultural forms of speech. You might think of the Signifying Monkey in this way as a subject position within language. That position, like the “feminine” position we discussed in Cixous’s feminist theory, is further away from a center where language is fixed, stable, and univocal; at the margins of language or discourse, speech is more fluid, more flexible, more able to “play” in Derrida’s sense. The Signifying Monkey, then, as a linguistic subject, is able to use words with greater flexibility, to “trope” and play and signify and shift meanings, than is the speaker who stands closer to the center of language.

http://www.colorado.edu/English/engl2010mk/2gates.html

 

The dozens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yo_momma

Some History about Playing the Dozens

http://www.online-magazine.com/snaps.htm

 

Also see the section "Hidden Politics: Discursive and Institutional Policing of Rap Music" from the chapter "Prophets of Rage. Rap Music and the Politics of Black Cultural Expression" in Tricia Rose: Black Noise. Rap Music and Black Culture in Contemporary America. Hanover, London: Wesleyan University Press, 1994 (pp. 124-145).

 

Chapter 13, "Bring the Noise" from David Toop: Rap Attack. Third Edition. London: Serpent's Tail, 2000 (pp. 169-185).

 

Ruth Mayer: "Schmutzige Fakten. Wie sich Differenz verkauft." Mainstream der Minderheiten. Pop in der Kontrollgesellschaft. Ed. Tom Holert, Mark Terkessidis. Berlin, Amsterdam: Edition ID-Archiv, 1996. 153-168.

 

"HipHop, Rassismus und die Krise der Pop-Subversion. Ein Interview mit Günther Jacob", printed in: David Dufresne: Rap Revolution. Geschichte - Gruppen - Bewegung. Zurich, Mainz: Atlantis, 1997 (pp. 420-441).

DrJägermeister
DrJägermeister
Posted
Posted

OK Terry, I just want clear some things and then we should talk again about Music (politic is not very interesting).

There are some fascist in Germany but not very much. There are still enough anarchists & punks in the most towns to control the situation.

On the elections (except some local elections) the Nazis never received 5% to enter the German parliament since the 2nd world war.

Here’s a spot of my favorite political party that everyone can see that we Germans aren’t all Nazis and that many of us are just some apolitical party animals (maybe sometimes not political correct):

http://rapidshare.de/files/10522648/wahlsp...d-2005.wmv.html

This spot seems to be a funny music spot but it is really from a political party the APPD, their leader is singer from a punk band. During the elections in October 2005, German television broadcast it during the prime time :poster_oops:. Unfortunately Angela Merkel has won the elections and not Wolfgang Wendland (party animal Nr.1).

Let’s talk about Music again now, here is one more great album:

Slime: Alle gegen Alle (oldschool punk)

Scothiam
Scothiam
Posted
Posted

Holy {censored}!! I came here seeking refuge from the battle of Adobe vs Unibins, and it's even more heated here!!!

...anyway, here's my list:

 

back in black -*- AC-DC

rumours -*- Fleetwood Mac

4 -*- Led Zepplin

rush of blood to the head -*- Coldplay

psalm 69 -*- Ministry

ziggy stardust -*- David Bowie

angel dust -*- Faith no more

abbey road -*- Beatles

thicker than water -*- Jack Johnson (compliation, soundtrack)

independant worm saloon -*- Butthole Surfers

Tribute -*- Ozzy Osbourne (damn, that takes me back)

 

...in no particular order

  • 3 weeks later...
jbjonas
jbjonas
Posted
Posted

Hmmm, interesting thread... Here's my list in the order I think of them (limited to one album per artist)

 

-Dark Side of the Moon - Pink Floyd (Animals is close 2nd)

-The White Album - The Beatles (Abbey Road too)

-Led Zeppelin II - Led Zeppelin

-Amused to Death - Roger Waters

-Jethro Tull - Thick as a Brick (can't forget Aqualung)

-Dire Straits - Calling Elvis (and Brothers in Arms)

-Soundgarden - SuperUnknown

-Bjork - Debut (or any of her first 4 albums!)

-Underworld - Dubnobasswithmyheadman (or Beaucoup Fish)

-Paul Oakenfold - Voyage into Trance (and Goa Mix Gold)

-Beck - Guero (also Odelay!)

 

That's all that comes to mind at the moment. :dev:

Swad
Swad
Posted
  • Author
Posted

Aw yeah, Cyrana. That's what I'm talking about - some good oldies goodness. (And yes, U2 is old enough to be on oldies stations!)

 

I'm surprised no one mentioned any motown. I'm a huge fan of the Four Tops and the Temptations, although I'm not sure they're the greatest of all time.

 

Stevie Wonder also had a huge influence - he deserves a spot somewhere here.

 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...