nano2nd Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I would have thought this makes for a stronger case than merely violation of the End User License Agreement (thou shalt not install the Mac OS on non-Apple hardware). From the article: Apple employs technological protection measures that effectively control access to Apple's copyrighted works," the revised complaint read. "Defendant has illegally circumvented Apple's technological copyright-protection measures." Specifically, Apple charged Psystar with acquiring or creating "code" that "avoids, bypasses, removes, descrambles, decrypts, deactivates or impairs a technological protection measure without Apple's authority for the purpose of gaining unauthorized access to Apple's copyrighted works. And, for the bit where we cry "we told you they'd ruin it for everyone!", it also looks like they are going after hobbyists: Persons other than Psystar are involved in Psystar's unlawful and improper activities described in this amended complaint You could interpret this as the key innovators in the scene behind essential technologies such as PC EFI, DSMOS (and its derivatives) - the things that enabled Psystar to package and commercialize OSX86. Read the whole article here: Computerworld: Apple adds DMCA charge to lawsuit against Psystar Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
netkas Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 It's only ONE country in the world with DMCA, so rest of world is fine. interesting, wil lthey go after ef*x users ? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-986270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nano2nd Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 It's only ONE country in the world with DMCA, so rest of world is fine. interesting, wil lthey go after ef*x users ? True true. There are, however, equivalents. Here in Europe, we have: EU Copyright Directive Like the DMCA, it prohibits the circumvention of copyright protection measures (e.g. dsmos.kext). But of course, for Apple to pursue, they would have to do so in a European court in a separate case. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-986296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hecker Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Damn it! I knew those greedy bastards at Psystar would be our ruin. I hope the get sued for everything they own and then some for riding on the OSx86 developers back. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-986302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flibblesan Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Interesting development: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20081202230318899 "Apple Tells Court It Believes Someone Is Behind Psystar; Adds New Claims, Including DMCA Violation" Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-986929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac_Attack12 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 What about the people who brought a legal copy of Leopard? Like me. Why does apple care if they are getting there money from the Retail leopard DVD? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-986950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konami® Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Damn it! I knew those greedy bastards at Psystar would be our ruin. I hope the get sued for everything they own and then some for riding on the OSx86 developers back. I agree, they will ruin the whole OSX86 community. I will be not surprise if Apple is going to do something to insanelymac. What about the people who brought a legal copy of Leopard? Like me. Why does apple care if they are getting there money from the Retail leopard DVD? Apple really does not care about who bough their retail disc, they only care about the copyright infringement of the {censored}s of Psystar. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-986953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Having had a quick look at the computerworld article, 2 points stand out: First the idea that persons unknown, "john doe 1-10" may become co-defendants in this case, and secondly that the psystar restore cd (basically what we all know & love as a boot-132 preboot CD) is cited as a protection-breaking device. It will be interesting to see how this is spun, as pretty much all of what is on such a cd is in itself opensource, legal code, and it is only its use that potentially infringes copyright, much like a hammer can be used to build houses or break heads. Who the "John Does" might be and why they are considered offenders is also going to be interesting, and I suspect anyone who contributed code to psystar will be worried at this point. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-986965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nano2nd Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 Interesting development: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20081202230318899 "Apple Tells Court It Believes Someone Is Behind Psystar; Adds New Claims, Including DMCA Violation" That is interesting - the idea that Psystar is actually backed by a larger corporate entity or someone with more clout. I wonder if it is The Woz afterall!! I can picture the final confrontation between the two old friends, lightsabers, volcanos, molten lava. Or maybe not. Having had a quick look at the computerworld article, 2 points stand out: First the idea that persons unknown, "john doe 1-10" may become co-defendants in this case, and secondly that the psystar restore cd (basically what we all know & love as a boot-132 preboot CD) is cited as a protection-breaking device. It will be interesting to see how this is spun, as pretty much all of what is on such a cd is in itself opensource, legal code, and it is only its use that potentially infringes copyright, much like a hammer can be used to build houses or break heads. Who the "John Does" might be and why they are considered offenders is also going to be interesting, and I suspect anyone who contributed code to psystar will be worried at this point. Thats an interesting point of view Hagar. I like your angle. You could liken it to the DeCSS case where DVD-Jon was charged with creating the program that enabled DVD encryption to be removed and therefore aiding piracy of movies: DeCSS Legal Response - Wikipedia Prosecutors let DVD-Jon's victory stand The only issue is where the case is tried. With DVD-Jon, it happened in Norway and the Norwegian courts held that he couldn't be held accountable for the actions of others using the code he created. The Apple case, however, is in California USA, the DMCA is in effect. Apple can use this to smart bomb the cr@p out of Psystar. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-986976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
slacker25 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 @Mac Attack12........ they really dont care about your retail buy because thats not where they make their real money...... and they pry could have cared less about your hackintosh untill the pystar BS now its going to be just a matter of crushing all hobbiest just to make sure this never happens again.If people would only learn to keep this stuff on the downlow it wouldnt happen like this. @ nano2nd ... it pry is the woz and he would destroy steve seeing as how steve is good sales perosn but i believe there is more brain power behind the woz then all of microsoft granted thats not hard to do be smarter then M$ but you get the idea Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-987067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
justvisiting Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Using DMCA is potentially dangerous legally as well, if it goes wrong the defendant can sue for 3x. apple must also show to the court they are using "technological protection measures". lexmark & print cartridges & DMCA lawsuit is an interesting case study. edit: I could be wrong about the damages defendant is entitled to in a wrongful DMCA suite Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-987135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sighlent Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I read this elsewhere and my first thoughts were people high up in OSX86 developments and perhaps EFI-X might be feeling a little uneasy right now. Apple is notorious, and I will see them stopping at nothing short of bankrupting someone if their precious crystal palace is in jeopardy. However the ideas that a much larger corporation/entity is behind the support of Psystar changes things up a little, unless thats hype to try and portray EFI-X resellers in the US as a big company. This is going to get ugly. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-987289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cavallo Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I think we don't have to be on Apple or Psystar side? The question is does Apple pay to protect everything it produces? if it is any discussion about this matter is stupid. Why we are here? Cause of a lot of us doesn't like to pay those rights Apple pays (and then add the cost to us) to protect Mac, i pod or others. In this case is so stupid to stay on Psystar or others side. If Apple doesn' t pay (very hard, specially acpi distribution platform) everyone of us is on the right side standing on Psystara one. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-987303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofors Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 It's only ONE country in the world with DMCA, so rest of world is fine. Just wait and see how long that lasts... Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-989424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JestaGeek Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 What about the people who brought a legal copy of Leopard? Like me. Why does apple care if they are getting there money from the Retail leopard DVD? Unfortunately, they consider a "retail" OS X as an "upgrade", since it's designed to be installed on a Mac that came with an original version of OS X. OTOH, I have an old Mac Mini that's just sitting in my cupboard (in case my hackintosh ever has a problem) and I could say that my original license for one machine was upgraded with the "Hack Pro" I built since they didn't offer a system that was user-upgradeable other than the totally-overkill (for my needs) Mac Pro systems. For those of us who've been using Macs for years and have significant investment in software and knowledge, it is sort of a monopoly that they've built up and it does suck that they don't offer what so many of us have asked for (the simple, "everyman" minitower) and instead foist lots of iCrap on the world. The OS is great, but the consumer line of systems they sell are not for me... and I neither need nor can afford the "pro" line. Anyway, I still think Apple should take a cue from M$ and market their OS... they can even piggyback on the efforts of the OSx86 community which has made a lot of hardware compatible. Of course they could still say that non-Apple hardware is not technically "supported" and do things to encourage people to buy a real Mac... but I think they are shooting themselves in the foot when/if they really go after the OSx86 world instead of using it to build up the OS X user-base, world-wide... and listening to what people want. They could really do so much to profit from OS X's growing popularity and take it more mainstream. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-990359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaksauce12 Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Ideally, I'd like to see Psystar sued out of business and the OSx86 community to be left alone again. Psystar stole code from open-source developers and used it commercially without consent. This ticked off Apple and ticked off the developers and OSx86 community in general. At least Apple tolerated this project in the past, even back to Tiger - they didn't make it especially hard to overcome the built-in "Mac only" mechanisms of the operating system with each new point update and they didn't bring any legal heat on the community. Whether or not they approved of it, I don't know, but they certainly didn't seem to go out of their way to crush it. It seems similar to the iPhone & Pwnagetool...they make token security updates, but even if their phone gets hacked, it just means more phone sales for them, which ultimately means more money on the bottom line. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-990368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dies Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Psystar stole code from open-source developers and used it commercially without consent. By definition you can't steal open source code. Just like you can't give away your code then {censored} that someone is using it in a way you don't like. I really couldn't care less what happens in this case, just hope that Apple leaves "the scene" alone. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-990394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaksauce12 Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 By definition you can't steal open source code. Just like you can't give away your code then b*tch that someone is using it in a way you don't like. I really couldn't care less what happens in this case, just hope that Apple leaves "the scene" alone. Open Source doesn't mean a free-for-all; it does have restrictions about usage based on both the open source definition and on the developer's requirements. Although I don't know if Netkas & Zef had any specific kind of non-commercial clause on it then like they do now, they probably just assumed no one would ever use their work for commercial gain. I just hope that they don't get slapped with legalities because of their work on these projects Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/139291-apple-turns-up-the-heat-on-psystar-and-the-scene/#findComment-990403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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