70 replies to this topic

[Fishy80]

KeriJane, on Aug 2 2008, 07:04 AM, said:

Hello.

Is Apple "Worth It"?

Yes, yes, a thousand times YES! Apple is a veritable BARGAIN.

Please do NOT compare a complete factory made and supported computer to a home made machine with ZERO support.

Compare Macs to HPs. SONYs, Gateways, Dells.... you know the computers that were so great that we started BUILDING OUR OWN in the first place!    

And don't just compare the on-paper specs. PC makers specialize in making the "numbers" look good.  Compare the whole experience by asking around. Find out how much people ended up actually paying for that $500 Dell that's roughly comparable to a Mac Mini. It often ends up being $700, $800 or more! And support? Is it better than Apple support? Any company sponsored Geniuses around? (no, I don't mean Geek Squad)

The current trend is the iMac ripoff. HP, Gateway and Sony all have very pretty all-in-one Vista boxes such as the current VAIO series. Are they really cheaper or a better value than an iMac? Why, no! they are not!  As I'm the computer fixit girl around here, I can speak for Sony PC quality.... it is certainly NOT equal to Mac nor is their support. Yet the VAIOs cost as much or more! VAIO 19" 2.0ghz=$1899 iMac 20"2.4ghz=$1499 (similarly equipped)

At the high end, we have the Mac Pro. This isn't a PC it's a Dual-Xeon WORKSTATION.  An HP 8-core XEON system? $4,600. and it's a dedicated rackmount server with NO OS. Seems like the Mac Pro  is about $2000 cheaper since you have to buy an OS for the HP.

When you compare APPLES to APPLES.....
APPLE always wins!  

Keri

Compare the prices when you amp up all the parts... for the mac pro its $21,000  do the same with a customizable computer from alienware/dell/hp/whoeverthe{censored}else and you will see that you can make a computer as good/better than that mac pro for way less... with cash left over to buy software that you need to be running....  you will never ever ever tell me that apple computers are at a competative price...  some of their stuff is a 100% markup... read my last post in this thread... you can build your own for cheaper or you can get one through any top of the line company for cheaper... if you have the technical know how to build your own computer you shouldn't NEED the support except maybe RMA...


if you do the actual math, they charge $284 per ONE gb of ram.... thats the only part in their computers that you can measure price/size that way...  hdd's and other things are harder because of the size differences price per gb is so different... hard to find a standard...  but $284 for 1gb of ram...  compare the other parts part for part on newegg... can't find the exact part, compare it to the next upgrade... you won't go over appl'es price...  leaves you money to take it anywhere for support if you had to...  

part for part, apple is a ripoff..  not saying they don't make quality parts, just wish I could afford one...

oh and don't forget, there are green apples and red apples...  the green apples ($$ green? get it?)  well they may look nicer, more solid and smooth than the red apples, but its still just an apple... inside its still the same, the taste may be different, but its made of the same stuff (mostly)... so it comes down to people's preference to the taste, and price per pound...  (if you get that entire analogy, good for you!)

[dillon31292]

He's also forgetting that that 20" Vaio has a higher quality display, a Blue Ray player, and is thinner.

I love Vaio's personally. ;D

[KeriJane]

Fishy80, on Aug 2 2008, 03:43 PM, said:

Compare the prices when you amp up all the parts... for the mac pro its $21,000  do the same with a customizable computer from alienware/dell/hp/whoeverthe{censored}else and you will see that you can make a computer as good/better than that mac pro for way less...

Hello.
Not to sound combative, but are you trying to say that someone else or ANYONE else will sell you a Dual-Socket Xeon motherboard with a 5400 chipset and TWO Quad-Core Xeon CPUs for less than $1,800? (2x Xeon 5440 at 720ea, lowest price 5400 board at $430)
PLUS a decent PSU, PLUS some FBRAM, PLUS a Videocard (even a cheapie like the HD2600) PLUS a presentable box to put it in, PLUS DVDs, HDDs, PLUS an OS, a Keyboard, a Mouse....  PLUS SHIPPING and you still say you can build an 8-core Xeon system for "Way Less"?

Let's see:
$1,870 for the CPUs (with OEM heatsinks) and Board, (you wouldn't DARE use THOSE Heatsinks would you?)
$250 for a DECENT 1,000w PSU
$135 for a measly 2GB DDR2-800FBRAM
$60 for a laughable HD2600XT/256/ddr3
$65 for a 320GB HDD
$30 for a DVD burner
$100 for OS (Vista on sale, XP Home, that sort of thing)
$100 for a presentable case (you wouldn't really get something THAT cheap would you?)
$100 for a DECENT KB & mouse (such as the aluminum KB and Mighty Mouse)

Total=$2710. from the Egg. PLUS SHIPPING!!!

PLUS all of your hard work.
PLUS all the miscellaneous stuff that you KNOW you're going to have to buy?

And that's just right at a base 8-core Mac Pro spec.

Apples to Apples, remember?
Really, the only Case that compares to a MacPro case is a LianLi that would probably cost $300 instead of the $100 mentioned, so to be fair you should add $200 to that estimate.

Keri

dillon31292, on Aug 2 2008, 11:29 PM, said:

He's also forgetting that that 20" Vaio has a higher quality display, a Blue Ray player, and is thinner.

I love Vaio's personally. ;D

Ummm.....

You do not read posts very carefully do you?

"I said "similarly equipped". I compared a VIAO WITHOUT the BLU-Ray drive and with the closest matched CPU, Hard Drive, memory and screen size at FULL LIST Price in an attempt to make the fairest match possible.
Yes, I know that you can generally knock $400 off of that.
But you can't on a Apple, can you?

Staggering FAKE discounts of 20% or more are a sure sign of overpriced stuff.

Oh,
and

KEWL! I'm a "He"?

Can I please have that 29% raise right now?  

Tired of making 71¢ on the dollar,
Keri

[vbetts]

The Macpro is a very affordable workstation compared to others, even when you have workstations that only come with a single dual core cpu solution.

[pet1]

not at retail price

[nbollinger]

dillon31292, on Aug 1 2008, 03:40 PM, said:

No, actually I'm not exaggerating.  There were three of them up for over $1,700 last night.  There's usually at least one up in the $1,000's (being bidded on, not a fixed price) on most days. I'm saying that you could get this for it, its just that most people are honest enough to put theirs up for a few hundred bucks.

Complete BS. I just did an advanced search of all finished auctions on ebay for powerbooks and none of them sold for $1700's. Quit lying.

[dillon31292]

nbollinger, on Aug 3 2008, 11:17 PM, said:

Complete BS. I just did an advanced search of all finished auctions on ebay for powerbooks and none of them sold for $1700's. Quit lying.

If you had read the thread you would have seen that I linked to three of them going for over $1,300, one of them being up to $1,995 at the time, so before you start mouthing off trying to make your miniature e-cock look harder than it really is you need to take some time off to learn how to read:

Quote

From Aug 1 2008, 01:02 PM:

How in hell a 4 years old powerbook will cost $1700? are they made in gold or something else special that others powerbook does not offer? I visit a lot Ebay and I never saw a 4 years old powerbook for that price.

I agree, it's completely ridiculous.  Alot of people don't comprehend computer specs and whatnot so they're easy to take advantage of when the word "Mac" or "Apple" is slapped onto something.

Btw here's some good examples:

$1,995: http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

$1,399: http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

$1,350: http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

...all of which are gone now because they were sold.  They were probably higher than the prices I quoted by the time they sold, since I quoted them nearly two days ago.  Right at this very moment there are two up in the thousands, so you must not have looked but so hard.

So please do tell, who is the lying bullshitter?

[Fishy80]

KeriJane, on Aug 2 2008, 11:44 PM, said:

Hello.
Not to sound combative, but are you trying to say that someone else or ANYONE else will sell you a Dual-Socket Xeon motherboard with a 5400 chipset and TWO Quad-Core Xeon CPUs for less than $1,800? (2x Xeon 5440 at 720ea, lowest price 5400 board at $430)
PLUS a decent PSU, PLUS some FBRAM, PLUS a Videocard (even a cheapie like the HD2600) PLUS a presentable box to put it in, PLUS DVDs, HDDs, PLUS an OS, a Keyboard, a Mouse.... PLUS SHIPPING and you still say you can build an 8-core Xeon system for "Way Less"?

Let's see:
$1,870 for the CPUs (with OEM heatsinks) and Board, (you wouldn't DARE use THOSE Heatsinks would you?)
$250 for a DECENT 1,000w PSU
$135 for a measly 2GB DDR2-800FBRAM
$60 for a laughable HD2600XT/256/ddr3
$65 for a 320GB HDD
$30 for a DVD burner
$100 for OS (Vista on sale, XP Home, that sort of thing)
$100 for a presentable case (you wouldn't really get something THAT cheap would you?)
$100 for a DECENT KB & mouse (such as the aluminum KB and Mighty Mouse)

Total=$2710. from the Egg. PLUS SHIPPING!!!

PLUS all of your hard work.
PLUS all the miscellaneous stuff that you KNOW you're going to have to buy?

And that's just right at a base 8-core Mac Pro spec.

Apples to Apples, remember?
Really, the only Case that compares to a MacPro case is a LianLi that would probably cost $300 instead of the $100 mentioned, so to be fair you should add $200 to that estimate.

Keri

guess you chose NOT to read my previous post like I suggested, the one where I did what you did but upgraded everything and spent less than at apples site, and got a better computer?


here I'll build the best machine I can for the same price as the mac pro's $21,000  

ROFL, ok take a look at this wish list...

http://secure.newegg...shListTitle=Mac

to try and hike up the price I added a 7.1 sound card and sound system, webcam, water cooling,  and the most expensive case on newegg...oh.. and can't forget the 2k sony viao laptop lol... tell me did I forget anything on that list?  and which computer do you think would outperform the other?   the only real thing the mac has on this machine as that this machine only supports up to 16gb of ram,  the mac has twice that... so gratz to mac on that... but even if I was to double the ram on my other wishlist, I wouldn't spend as much as I would on the mac...


try and actually add it up on newegg before proving somone wrong who is actually going to add it up and provide links...

[dillon31292]

...I never tried to prove that wrong.  In fact I agree with you. :/

[Fishy80]

ahh I'm sorry, wrong quote... hate that...  fixed

[dillon31292]

Ah, that's ok then.

[Sevan]

To god honest truth, Apple is okay. The price is reasonable considering what we're looking at.

To be honest, it's really ultimately up to you what you think about Apple. What I say isn't all that important because it is just an opinion.

[Gooly]

ha! they cost you twice ...

[MikeyMike01]

I would never, ever, EVER give Apple a single cent for anything (I might consider a PC compatible OS X, but would probably just pirate it. ).

[urgonah8me]

@ forceman: your talking absolute bollocks mate... £450 for a quad core cpu 2.4ghz (Dont give me "around that time they were that much") because I got my entire pc set up thats in my sig for £500 DELIVERED.  BTW this was in december 2007 2 months before you posted your £450 cpu post.

That has your "£450" cpu so what? I payed £50 extra for 4 gb of ram, a 500gb hdd, 8600 GT 512mb, case, 500 watt PSU, p5ne-sli mobo? Bargain

Apple products are only worth the money due to apple as a company being so great and having great customer service... Macs are way over priced... but people pay it.. why? because there strong builds, they look good, echo friendly, save space, nice OS and they are covered by Apple.

Pc's on the other hand have the UPGRADE card that Macs do not have (or rather not as great as PC's when it comes to upgrading) Pc's are cheaper... and people say "but there cases look hidous" .. sorry but not all PC cases look hidous but whatever...

Anyway in the long run Apple's stuff is nice it looks great and handles well. Pc's run fast as hell they dont have OSX (Officialy) but they can be upgraded.

PC = upper hand.

macbooks rock tho

[Fishy80]

urgonah8me, on Aug 13 2008, 03:28 AM, said:

@ forceman: your talking absolute bollocks mate... £450 for a quad core cpu 2.4ghz (Dont give me "around that time they were that much") because I got my entire pc set up thats in my sig for £500 DELIVERED.  BTW this was in december 2007 2 months before you posted your £450 cpu post.

That has your "£450" cpu so what? I payed £50 extra for 4 gb of ram, a 500gb hdd, 8600 GT 512mb, case, 500 watt PSU, p5ne-sli mobo? Bargain

Apple products are only worth the money due to apple as a company being so great and having great customer service... Macs are way over priced... but people pay it.. why? because there strong builds, they look good, echo friendly, save space, nice OS and they are covered by Apple.

Pc's on the other hand have the UPGRADE card that Macs do not have (or rather not as great as PC's when it comes to upgrading) Pc's are cheaper... and people say "but there cases look hidous" .. sorry but not all PC cases look hidous but whatever...

Anyway in the long run Apple's stuff is nice it looks great and handles well. Pc's run fast as hell they dont have OSX (Officialy) but they can be upgraded.

PC = upper hand.

macbooks rock tho

Couldn't have said it better myself =D

[new1phone]

Apple is full of it .. that's the summary.

I have now been hackingtoshing for a couple of weeks .. and for all it's worth . .it's a glorified bsd system with nuances that should put true computer puritans to shame
mac-heads are  dreaming .. there is not a single justifications for half of the inconsistencies in the system.

If Microsoft tried half the things that apple gets away with .. there will be blood in the state of washington .. not to mention the  whole of europe  and silicon valley . .
people were upset about browser being integrated .. how about storage/music/devices and email .. all being quasi forced on unsuspecting users.

Windows ui may not have the same crispness as mac os x . (till vista) .. but overall windows ui is more functional and the system far more consistent and useful .. it crashes far less when pushed compared to mac osx.

Both have equal amont of black magic . .apple figured out it's not technology but  black magic that sells and that's what they have done to clean bsd system

apple has steve jobs going for it ... not prrogrammers .. steve is a brilliant businessman, his programmers are  hacks at best.
they are nasty egotistic snobs without much to show for their brilliance.

Pray tell me one great "programming novelty" of mac os ? Linux has more.

I don't mean to be harsh .. but apple hardware is not worth the money -- the software is even less so !

I like using it,  not because it's novel and great .. but largey because it's more stable than Linux that changes with speed of light.

[Fishy80]

just wait... the ubuntu guys say they will have a prettier version of linux than mac will ever be apparently in the next 2 years... I can't wait to try it...  linux is the way of the future... maybe not the near future... Mac... Windows... both are names... companies... both can go down the toilet... and some day most likely will... open source is the future... much more can be done with it... and because its open source, more WILL be done with it...

linux is already in all of our devices... cell phones.... routers... watches.... idk... everything...

[dillon31292]

It's most definitely not going to happen as long as Linux stays free and open-source.

[professor falken]

It's most definitely not going to happen as long as Linux is developed by tons of waring factions.