consolation Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 You don't have to convince me, you (and Apple) have to convince the consumers of the largest economic area in the world (the EU) that Macs are good value for their money. Arghhh..... Apple does not sell it's product on value for money! OK, you sound Italian, is a Ferrari "good value for money?" Hell no; only two seats, burns a lot of petrol, expensive to run, by your logic Ferrari should make cheap cars from cheap materials to sell MORE of them. With Apple you are paying for style, quality, good engineering, the privilege of using osX and, yes, a certain amount of exclusivity. To put it another way; one company (let us call it Bell) makes 300x profit and sells 1000 units each year from assets of 100kx, another company (let us call it Maple) makes 100x profit and sells 200 units each year from assets of 20kx. (x being an arbitrary unit) Ask yourself, which company is the better performing one and which one will have a better stock price. Apple does not care about selling most computers or spreading osX around the world. Like all businesses it's only concerned with maximising the shareholder's investment. Hence, it does not need to compete in the volume, budget segment. Alessandro, if you can find me a Eur 700 laptop with no air holes/vents on the bottom; so it can be used on the lap or duvet or anywhere I might choose to use a portable computer, I might start to be convinced of the need to discount macbooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Arghhh..... Apple does not sell it's product on value for money! OK, you sound Italian, is a Ferrari "good value for money?" Good point. How many cars do they sell? It is extremely rare to actually see one on the road. And Macs are almost as rare as Ferrari. However Ferrari is only part of a huge multinational (FIAT). So even if Ferrari run at a loss, it wouldn't matter. Alessandro, if you can find me a Eur 700 laptop with no air holes/vents on the bottom; so it can be used on the lap or duvet or anywhere I might choose to use a portable computer, I might start to be convinced of the need to discount macbooks. I havent actually seen it, I should drive to town. However I don't care, I used to put my HP on my lap for hours and I found it quite OK. Update: I have just seen a HP for €499!!! The specs were nothing special, but more than worth the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synaesthesia Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Look, whatever. "Premium Brand" arguments aside, the point is that it sucks that Apple products are more expensive in the USA, than in Europe, by a lot. Especially seeing as they're made in China like every other piece of computer hardware. Which is why we turn to hacks, or get around the system by buying macs in America. Or something. BTW Allessandro, what computer do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 BTW Allessandro, what computer do you have? A powerful hackintosh (specs later ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synaesthesia Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~pcwiz Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 C'mon, I'm dying to see your specs Alessandro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 C'mon, I'm dying to see your specs Alessandro Actually they can be found in many threads. 1)Intel Bad Axe 2 2)Intel Q6600 3)4GB RAM, Crucial Ballistix 4)XFX 7900GT 5)3 Seagate Barracuda 6)1 Pioneer DVR-110 and 1 Pioneer DVR-112 7)Case Cooler Master Centurion 534, nothing special 8)Server grade PSU, 650 Watt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_muad_dib Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 not to mention that in italy, apple never done ads, anywhere, no tv ads, anything, either of macs or ipods macs are very rare, it's hard to see a mac outside professional work scenarios OT closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2k. Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 same thing here in Serbia,most of people doesn`t even know what is Apple computer ... i think that apple computers are more expensive because you (first of all)pay for brand and than for hardware and software ...i mean, apple hardware is not so different that any other hardware on the market...intel inside .... and i just don`t want to pay for brand ! ~R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassJAw Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 That's all fine and dandy but the core use of a Mac is for OSX. Sure you can install OSX86 but it's still crippled and it's a pain to update it. And a Intel Mac is not purely the same as other brands. There's a Apple touch to it that other companies do not offer. For example the magnet plug, the screen is much nicer, the design doesn't look like every other brand. All other laptops use the same OEM and don't make anything unique to differentiate their computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~pcwiz Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 Good point glassJAw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synaesthesia Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Guys would you pay an extra 40% for Apple products? We're not saying they're bad or not stupid or anything. We want Apple Macs. Just they're SO much more expensive outside the USA. Apple just doesn't care. Look at the iPod index. All the European countries and South Africa pay about $220 for the $150 iPod nano. Meh. Whatever, there's no resolution to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhsh8r Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 It must be a matter of personal experience and which distro you use.In my experience openSUSE is rock solid. depends on that, hardware drivers, quality of the drivers, and also how the app was written really linux is the only os ive had thats ever FUkd itsself..... and i mean royally, i used suse 10. something i think, it was like a little bit before they changed the name to openSUSE depends on if teh distro likes the hardware is my guess, but its just that, a guess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 depends on that, hardware drivers, quality of the drivers, and also how the app was written reallylinux is the only os ive had thats ever FUkd itsself..... and i mean royally, i used suse 10. something i think, it was like a little bit before they changed the name to openSUSE depends on if teh distro likes the hardware is my guess, but its just that, a guess.. All I know is that 10.1 was released with a messed up package manager. That was the first and last time something like that happened in the long SUSE history. Later they released a remastered version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audrys Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 in my opinion MS vs. MAC . MS is a lot more smarter than OSX period, OSX has a nice drooling interface, even so I lik eOSX but people that used both probably notices that MS is just a decent well done OS, you compare from any angle you want. will see what Leopard has to offer but I have a feeling not much from Tiger. One thing I like a loty that my Adobe stuff works better in OSX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~pcwiz Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 A decent well done OS? Are you joking? Windows OSes have the most bugs and problems out of all the OSes here today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headrush69 Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 MS is a lot more smarter than OSX period No offense, but that sounds like a statement from someone that doesn't know very much about OS design, exclamation point. And that would be "Windows is a lot more...." or "MS is a lot more.... than Apple" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acumos Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Guy imo it's in important to clarify some statements: 1) iMac is a system (hardware+software) light miles better than any other PC system but its defect is the price (now you pay 300€ more). 2) PC (hardware+windows) has the best quality/price ratio, and if you consider pirate software... 3) PC (hardware+free linux) is the cheapest choice for all user type. I tried new iMac and it's awesome (style, functionality, usability). But I (and I think many more) can't spend 300€ more for something. I see that Armani shoes are better than Nike shoes but I don't buy Armani shoes just because I CAN'T not because I DON'T WANT. So if you have more money than me you MUST buy an iMac. Otherwise buy a normal PC and even if it sometime freezes...restart! Do you want a Ferrari or a Fiat? Only your bank can decide! I think if S. Jobs wants to allow people like me buy an Apple Computer he should change Apple release schedule. When Mac mounted PPC he could update the hardware when he wanted because a real Mac-PC comparison wasn't possible. Now that people see that iMac mounts a Core2Duo 2Ghz and a PC mount a Core2Duo 2,33Ghz with a double sized FSB... But if you compare hardware and price between Mac and Pc at the very beginning of an iMac update you see that the choice is for iMac. But just after few weeks the facts change! The PC hardware and market evolution is faster than old PPC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassJAw Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 in my opinion MS vs. MAC . MS is a lot more smarter than OSX period, OSX has a nice drooling interface, even so I lik eOSX but people that used both probably notices that MS is just a decent well done OS, you compare from any angle you want. will see what Leopard has to offer but I have a feeling not much from Tiger. One thing I like a loty that my Adobe stuff works better in OSX Every Windows before Vista had NO SECURITY Implementation is mind. The foundation of Windows is poor. People always say "Well I'm smart enough not to go on bad sites and get Viruses" but REGULAR people have {censored}ed up Windows machines all the time. All my friends who just use a PC have problems with their computers. This is failure on Microsoft's part. They still didn't get it right with Vista because all you have to do is press Allow and it's the same {censored}. At least with OS X, if it's just a APP it doesn't need permission to get installed unless it needs root access which then it asks for the password. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acumos Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Every Windows before Vista had NO SECURITY Implementation is mind. The foundation of Windows is poor. People always say "Well I'm smart enough not to go on bad sites and get Viruses" but REGULAR people have {censored}ed up Windows machines all the time. All my friends who just use a PC have problems with their computers. This is failure on Microsoft's part. They still didn't get it right with Vista because all you have to do is press Allow and it's the same {censored}. At least with OS X, if it's just a APP it doesn't need permission to get installed unless it needs root access which then it asks for the password. Remember that hacker attention is for Windows cause, hacking windows you have more visibility. So if OSX or Linux were widely used they would be affected exactly as windows. Remember that OSX was hacked in a few minutes in front of S. Jobs who paid a lot of dollars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audrys Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 OS X is good for tunes, pictures viewing even so the iPhoto is just lame in my opinion unless you want to use third party software. try to use OSX in business envirment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apowerr Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 How I feel: Apple Computers overpriced? Laptops: no Desktops: yes Windows poorly made? Overall: no NT is definitely showing its age and needs to be nixed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSupachicken Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 This rubbish guys! Seriously if you think they are over priced you don't know what you are looking at. Just add up all the pieces in the mac and get the prices of all te equivalents, and don't for get that the macs have the best quality products in them you will find. Everyone knows this. Plus you get an operating system, around $199AU and iLife $99AU plus 1 year warranty and 90-day phone support. How can you say this is expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apowerr Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 How can you say this is expensive. Disclaimer: I totally screwed up on the original version of this post, I made a good deal of edits To make the match Identical, I had to give the built PC and the Dell an 8800 GTX. All computers you don't build yourself are expensive. Here is a comparison of a like Dell and home-built PC. Case: Antec Nine Hundred $129.99 Motherboard: ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard $184.99 Power Supply: Hiper v2.2 580W Modular Power Supply $94.99 RAM: Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) $109.99 Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz $277.99 HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS $84.99 Optical Drive: Some SATA Samsung that burns CDs/DVDs $29.99 Video Card: EVGA 768-P2-N831-AR GeForce 8800GTX 768MB $549.99 CPU Cooling: ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU $19.99 OS: Microsoft Windows Vista 32-Bit Ultimate for System Builders Single Pack DVD $169.99 TOTAL: $1652.90 Dell: Intel® Core™ 2 Q6600 Quad-Core (8MB L2 cache,2.4GHz,1066FSB) Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 2 DIMMs 320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability No Monitor 768MB nVidia GeForce 8800 GTX TOTAL: $1,848 Consider this though: How much could you overclock that Dell? The Antec 900 case is perfect for OCing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSupachicken Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Does that 509 include your premium quality lcd display, your operating system and digital entertainment software plus a free year of subscription to .mac? Are you planning on using a hard drive and optical drive or going with out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts