Russia is governed by an autocracy

[socal swimmer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/world/eu...amp;oref=slogin

 

NIZHNY NOVGOROD, Russia — Shortly before parliamentary elections in December, foremen fanned out across the sprawling GAZ vehicle factory here, pulling aside assembly-line workers and giving them an order: vote for President Vladimir V. Putin’s party or else. They were instructed to phone in after they left their polling places. Names would be tallied, defiance punished.

 

The city’s children, too, were pressed into service. At schools, teachers gave them pamphlets promoting “Putin’s Plan” and told them to lobby their parents. Some were threatened with bad grades if they failed to attend “Children’s Referendums” at polling places, a ploy to ensure that their parents would show up and vote for the ruling party.

 

Around the same time, volunteers for an opposition party here, the Union of Right Forces, received hundreds of calls at all hours, warning them to stop working for their candidates. Otherwise, you will be hurt, the callers said, along with the rest of your family.

 

Over the past eight years, in the name of reviving Russia after the tumult of the 1990s, Mr. Putin has waged an unforgiving campaign to clamp down on democracy and extend control over the government and large swaths of the economy. He has suppressed the independent news media, nationalized important industries, smothered the political opposition and readily deployed the security services to carry out the Kremlin’s wishes.

[unclemac]

You believe this anti-russian propaganda that we are seeing lately ? Get real and go to Russia and see for yourself what people think !

 

Since Putin used the same rhetoric as some western leaders anti-russian campaign started. I was shocked. Like I said. Just book a flight and see it for yourself. Don't believe everything you read

[Paranoid Marvin]

I like Russia, because it is one of the few countries that have given, and continue to give America the middle finger.

 

I'd much rather be on Russia's side any day

[CityHall]

Social Swimmer, since you believe so easily in the {censored} published by nytimes, I think you have no close connections with Russia. Am I right?

 

I am Russian and though I live in Singapore for the past 8 years. I have my parents, my sisters and many friends in Russia. Every year I go there for my vacations.

 

What I can tell about the quote you posted - don't believe in the {censored}. People in Russia do love Putin (including myself) for his more than just well done job as president. For making Russia what Russia is today. You can google for what Russia was 8 years ago and compare to what it is now. I can tell you the difference is HUGE.

 

And those who don't like Putin can vote easily against him without any fear.

 

My recommendations - do read and post about hackintosh and technical stuff and leave politics to politicians

 

Cheers

[apowerr]

I am Russian and though I live in Singapore for the past 8 years. I have my parents, my sisters and many friends in Russia. Every year I go there for my vacations.

 

What I can tell about the quote you posted - don't believe in the {censored}. People in Russia do love Putin (including myself) for his more than just well done job as president. For making Russia what Russia is today. You can google for what Russia was 8 years ago and compare to what it is now. I can tell you the difference is HUGE.

 

And those who don't like Putin can vote easily against him without any fear.

I believe this more than I believe the New York times article. Surely, if Russia was how the NTY describes, there would be a mass outcry.

[Proteo]

I like Russia, because it is one of the few countries that have given, and continue to give America the middle finger.

 

Haha, ditto.

[killbot1000]

Im American. I love my country, I...like...the people here. But...we need another revolution...beyond repair, unless we get good leadership for years and years and years. I am assuming its not going to happen.

[iTiger]

2 socal swimmer, you have been in Russia? what do you know about our lives? to read nonsense is harmful to health

 

2 killbot1000, USA need repair...

 

2 CityHall, PRIVET

[CityHall]

killbot1000, please, don't use the word "revolution". When I read it I jerk You have been living in America and don't know how harmful that can be.

 

Regarding America needs repair - I think it is not as bad as many ppl think. And if it does need reapair it needs it as many other countries need their own repairs. Your country is great. And I also like people there Of course it behaves a bit arrogantly on the world scene but who having its power wouldn't? Any country would love to do things in its favour. It's just USA can do it and others cannot, so they mostly whine. But the war in Irak is a big mistake. And again who doesn't make mistakes? But even that mistake was provoked by 9/11 - US wouldn't go into that war without 9/11.

 

If you talk about improvements - I think some can be done I personally hope that Obama will win the election.

 

Cheers

[Xogede]

Geesh, hasn't any of you listened to Шендерович?

 

The fact that people love Putin is just irrelevant. They loved Hitler too (Godwin's Law, here I come).

It's true how Putin has moved Russia forward. What we may never know is what would happen if someone else would have his place, someone who would put the people's welfare before his own. I'm not claiming that Putin is completely incompetent or even evil... it's just that, from these claims:

He has suppressed the independent news media, nationalized important industries, smothered the political opposition and readily deployed the security services to carry out the Kremlin’s wishes,

I can confirm all but the last one (which I have simply not been interested in).

Remember НТВ (NTV)?

Remember Юкос (Ukos)?

Remember all politicians you see on Russian TV everyday? No, you don't. You just remember one, and guess one time who that is.

 

 

Basically, Putin is a(n) {insert all negative adjectives here}, not much unlike any other politician in the world. I think most other politicians would do approximately the same if they had the chance (to almost rebuild the political being of such a great nation). But then, you're not innocent just because you're not worse than the rest.

 

And yes, I am Russian (though I currently live in Sweden, but I'm in Russia about 2-3 months/year).

 

(Oh, and I can't really compare to the US. Never been there, and I don't really believe what media over here has to say about it.)

[socal swimmer]

1) you guys need to chill out, cause i only posted the article. i did not make any comments one way or the other.

 

2) continue on. . .

[CityHall]

Yea... I started to type a post with my reply about all those Shenderovich and alike but.. stopped myself in time I don't want to go into deep political battles which will eat up lots of my time but won't do anything useful.

 

So Social swimmer your provocation is not successful.

 

PS: I can recommend to those with curious mind to read the book written by Lee Kuan Yew http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew Btw, he is great and well respected by many world leaders. In his book he says that there are many different types of democracy. Each country has to find its own type. So Shenderovich's type of democracy is not the only way..

 

PPS: judging from my PS social swimmer's provocation worked But no more posts from me anymore in this thread!

[iTiger]

In his book he says that there are many different types of democracy. Each country has to find its own type.

i quite agree.

 

ps. let’s pause at this. this conversation is getting us nowhere...

[Numberzz]

Im American. I love my country, I...like...the people here. But...we need another revolution...beyond repair, unless we get good leadership for years and years and years. I am assuming its not going to happen.

If you watch the news you can already start to see it happen. There are more and more protests ever single day, more and more people are getting killed. Though I hope our next president can help us get through that.

[VenturAce]

Well, I am Russian and I would partly agree with that article.

I'm afraid the democracy in Russia only looks like democracy... And many foreigns think that Russia is moving toward democracy successfully. But I am convinced that Russia is moving towards police government with full authority control. Just take a look on Russian Parliament! There is a Edinaya Rossiya with clones-parties that support Putin's policy!

Opposition is weak. And there were many cases during the election campaign when opposition parties were under pressure (The Union of Right Forces, for instance).

Let's take coming Presidents' elections. Mr. Kasyanov is out of the race. Why? Because todays authorities didn't let him to take part. Do you believe that unknown Bogdanov has gathered necessary amount of signs to become a candidate while best (IMHO) Premier Minister ever Kasyanov (during he was a head of ministers' cabinet Russia got the most significant growth - fact). Somebody in my country calls coming elections not purely "Elections" but "Elections of Dmitry Medvedev".

I think Russia is going from President's republic to Parliamentary republic where Mr. Putin as a PM will keep taking under control the authority...

Well I wouldn't say that it is all bad. Putin did well. But only few knows how he did it... I don't complain to my life in Russia. I live good. I just don't like Russian "democracy" and full authority control.

[killbot1000]

If you watch the news you can already start to see it happen. There are more and more protests ever single day, more and more people are getting killed. Though I hope our next president can help us get through that.

 

So do I, and when I said revolution, I did not necessarily mean "Bloody Revolution", preferably it would be something along the lines of a social, or intellectual revolution. The reason why I used the word revolution, and I chose it carefully is because, I grew up here, I love living here (for the record Washington state is an amazing place to live), but what I've noticed, in even the short time of myself being alive is that this country doesn't stand for the principles that it preaches. Our leaders talk about freedom, while trying to monitor what everybody does, they talk about jobs, while the standard of living keeps going down. It will take a long time, but what I see, is an America in decline. And you know what? It doesn't have to be.

[iTiger]

Mr. Kasyanov aka Misha 2 percent

Kasyanov

(during he was a head of ministers' cabinet Russia got the most

significant growth - fact)

his achievements?

 

The Union of Right Forces and Yeltsin - the black stripe in my life!

Let's take coming Presidents' elections. Mr. Kasyanov is out of the race. Why?

 

because he forged signatures...

[Software Updater]

I cant keep this in any longer, America is {censored}ed up beyond repair. We could give a {censored} less about people yet when someone stands up they are called an anti-american and that you want bad things to happen. It is so {censored}ed up! I think any country including Russia is better off than we are.

[killbot1000]

I cant keep this in any longer, America is {censored}ed up beyond repair. We could give a {censored} less about people yet when someone stands up they are called an anti-american and that you want bad things to happen. It is so {censored}ed up! I think any country including Russia is better off than we are.

 

You're right, it is F-u-c-k-e-d up, Whether it comes sooner or later, the USA is destined for hard times.

[apowerr]

I cant keep this in any longer, America is {censored}ed up beyond repair. We could give a {censored} less about people yet when someone stands up they are called an anti-american and that you want bad things to happen. It is so {censored}ed up! I think any country including Russia is better off than we are.

The USA is not FUBAR'd. It is 'f*cked up', but repair is very possible and will begin sooner or later, depending on who is elected.

I think any country including Russia is better off than we are.

Your ignorance is showing. Russia is a great nation, yes, but the standard of living in the US is higher. For example, the HDI ranking of the US is 0.951 (12th), while Russia's is 0.802 (67th). Another example: The PPP GDP Per Capita in the US is $43,444, while in Russia it is $14,600.

 

In my opinion, the biggest and most immediate problem the US currently faces is the astronomical national debt. This however, will almost become a non-issue once we are fully out of Iraq and cut unnessecery spending.

[VenturAce]

Mr. Kasyanov aka Misha 2 percent

 

Yes, that's how they called him...

 

his achievements?

 

Well, I think mostly due to him Russia has achieved that growth and coming stability in the society...

 

The Union of Right Forces and Yeltsin - the black stripe in my life!

 

Why? And what is the white stripe in your life then? Putin who was appointed by Yeltsin?

 

because he forged signatures...

 

I don't think he need to do it. Todays authorities just didn't want him to take part and find out nice but false argument. There is one who has forged signatures - Bogdanov, because nobody knew him before. How could he get enough signatures?

By the way, did you know him before? Me not.

[RouteZeroDesign]

No media outlet in the world has a completly un-biased view.

 

It is far too easy for the nyt writers to publish muck like that, thousands of miles away from the epicenter of russian politics, when in actual fact they have no idea of what is really happening, as their facts and their opinions about Russia have been skewed by the government and society

In the same respect, you couldnt expect a Russian paper to be able to write a complelty accurate account of American politics....The system works both ways.

 

Putin and Yeltsin have done allot of good for Russia, and have saved a great nation from bankruptsy.

Of course no politition is perfect, but that doesnt mean you should believe every biased, irrational and false story you hear.

[Xogede]

No media outlet in the world has a completly un-biased view.

 

It is far too easy for the nyt writers to publish muck like that, thousands of miles away from the epicenter of russian politics, when in actual fact they have no idea of what is really happening, as their facts and their opinions about Russia have been skewed by the government and society

In the same respect, you couldnt expect a Russian paper to be able to write a complelty accurate account of American politics....The system works both ways.

 

Putin and Yeltsin have done allot of good for Russia, and have saved a great nation from bankruptsy.

Of course no politition is perfect, but that doesnt mean you should believe every biased, irrational and false story you hear.

 

There is, however, a small difference between Russia and USA. How many Bush-critical news articles/videos can you see in the US? How much Putin-critical stuff can be seen in Russia? Remember last time somebody seriously decided to tell the west what was going on behind the curtains? Right... she got killed.

 

There is also the problem that when a Russian person speaks out against Putin, nobody listens anyway (or they get the "FU, Putin is their f-n saviour").

 

At the end of the day, I think Shenderovich has found the only possible way to get people listening: humor. That's the Russian way!

[kstephens98]

Wow, this stuff is so complicated. I'm American. Just your average Joe, if you will. My thought is there is really no country that is completely perfect. US has problems, Russia has problems, UK has problems, Iraq has problems, Japan has problems, China has problems, South Africa has problems, Brazil has problems, etc...

 

I've never been to Russia, so I don't know from first hand experience, but I do believe that Mr. Putin is not playing completely fair when it comes to elections. I really don't believe that NYT just made that stuff up out of thin air. Sure, they probably put their own spin on it. Anyway, like I said, I don't know from first hand experience, but some of the Russian's in this forum agree, at least in part, with the article. Others are calling it hogwash. What's the world supposed to believe? I can tell you that I cannot wait for Mr. Bush to be done with his term as President. I did not vote for him and opposed the US going to war in Iraq from the very beginning. I did not like Saddam, but I did not think he was a threat to us and there was no reason to declare war. Now I think Iraq, and the whole middle east, is in much worse shape than before the US went in. That being said, I thank god that I can voice my opinion and say what a {censored} Bush is without fearing reprisal from my government.

 

Not sure where this rant is going, peace out.

[chris2k]

To make it more or less simple, power corrupts and it doesn't matter if it's a president or an industrialist. It also doesn't matter which country, any other country "powerful" as the US would act the same way. However, I think without Russia and China it would be worse. They are keeping the world sort of in balance by simply not agreeing with USA's foreign policy.

 

About the elections, oh well, in the western countries we are going to make use of more voting machines and how shall we know what's going on behind the curtain?