teeching Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Dear Brothers of mine ...Quixos , Johan , Dear Bofors , Jas , Mashugly , And everybody Contrbuting this forum..... HERE IS THE EXPLANATION... Showing The prophets face ..trying to decribe the visuality is not really a good thing in Muslim culture ..considered to be a sin ...But also since the empires ages Ottomans and others the miniature arts and others never showed the prohets face... We have a saying here ... GOLD IS GOLD ...EVEN YOU DROP IT TO THE MUDDY WATERS .. So I can say A go to the discussion and go ... But thats not the thing ..the thing is YOU ARE INVOLVONG IN A CULTURE THAT YOU ARE NOT BELONGING TO AND ALSO IN A RUDE MANNER IN THAT CULTURE AND A OFFENSIVE (ACTUALLY THE MOST OFFENSIVE WAY ) MANNER ... YOU CAN SWEAR IN THE NAME OF ALLAH WE WONT BE CARING THAT ( I MEAN THE SWEARING :::JUST LIKE {censored} ) BUT NOONE EVEN CANNOT ACCEPT ANY LOW COMMENT TO THE PROPHET .. THIS IS RULEEEE !!! THIS IS THE PLACE WHERE YOU ARE MISUNDERSTANDING ... THATS A RULE ... THATS A CRITERIA .. WE DONT EVEN PRONOUNCE HIS NAME WITHOUT SAYING PBUH (PRAISE BE UPON HIM ) WE REALLY SALUTE HIS NAME WE DO LOVE HIM SO MUCH AND WE CANNOT ACCEPT THAT.. SO LADIES AND GENTLEMAN .. PLEASE DO CARE PEOPLE.. I SWEAR IN THE NAME OF GOD ..EXCEPT VIOLENCE DELIVERERS .. I DO LOVE EVERYONE LIVING.. I SWEAR IN THE NAME OF ALLAH.. AND EVEN FROM THE AFRO AMERICANS BEING KICKED BY POLICE IN USA , TO THE CHILDREN KILLED IN PALESTINE OR THE WHALES HUNTED WITHOUT ANY PATIENCE , TO THE ONES DIED IN 11 SEPT..I FEEL SORRY FOR EVERY INNOCENT MOVEMENT IN THE WORLD .. REALLY I CANNOT EVEN WATCH THE FUR TAKERS IN CHINA FROM LIVING ANIMALS ..AND Most OF THE MUSLIMS IN THE WORLD ARE LIKE THIS ... I SWEAR BECAUSE OUR BELIEF SAYS THAT ...DO TRUST ME ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johan Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 But thats not the thing ..the thing is YOU ARE INVOLVONG IN A CULTURE THAT YOU ARE NOT BELONGING TO AND ALSO IN A RUDE MANNER IN THAT CULTURE AND A OFFENSIVE (ACTUALLY THE MOST OFFENSIVE WAY ) MANNER ... YOU CAN SWEAR IN THE NAME OF ALLAH WE WONT BE CARING THAT ( I MEAN THE SWEARING :::JUST LIKE {censored} ) I think that Muslims are trying to involve and influence our Western culture. I understand if Muslims are doing that in Muslims states. But in Western states like Denmark.. stay out and don't try to tell us how we should life our lives. If we want to mock religion in comics we are free to do that... get used to that. SO TEECHING AND ALL BROTHERS ALL OVER THE WORLD , PLEASE BELIEVE ME. I LIKE CHILDREN, FLOWERS AND ALL PEOPLE> BUT I LIKE ME FREEDOM OF SPEECH THE MOST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swad Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I think that Muslims are trying to involve and influence our Western culture. I understand if Muslims are doing that in Muslims states. But in Western states like Denmark.. stay out and don't try to tell us how we should life our lives. I'm not sure that there is such a divide any more. Sure, there was at one point, but Islam is now the second largest religion in Europe. As I'm sure you know (and has been much debated) Muslims are coming to Europe in droves. The times of being able to tell them not to pay attention have passed, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molecule Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Dear Brothers of mine ...Quixos , Johan , Dear Bofors , Jas , Mashugly , And everybody Contrbuting this forum..... HERE IS THE EXPLANATION... Showing The prophets face ..trying to decribe the visuality is not really a good thing in Muslim culture ..considered to be a sin ...But also since the empires ages Ottomans and others the miniature arts and others never showed the prohets face... We have a saying here ... GOLD IS GOLD ...EVEN YOU DROP IT TO THE MUDDY WATERS .. So I can say A go to the discussion and go ... But thats not the thing ..the thing is YOU ARE INVOLVONG IN A CULTURE THAT YOU ARE NOT BELONGING TO AND ALSO IN A RUDE MANNER IN THAT CULTURE AND A OFFENSIVE (ACTUALLY THE MOST OFFENSIVE WAY ) MANNER ... YOU CAN SWEAR IN THE NAME OF ALLAH WE WONT BE CARING THAT ( I MEAN THE SWEARING :::JUST LIKE {censored} ) BUT NOONE EVEN CANNOT ACCEPT ANY LOW COMMENT TO THE PROPHET .. THIS IS RULEEEE !!! THIS IS THE PLACE WHERE YOU ARE MISUNDERSTANDING ... THATS A RULE ... THATS A CRITERIA .. WE DONT EVEN PRONOUNCE HIS NAME WITHOUT SAYING PBUH (PRAISE BE UPON HIM ) WE REALLY SALUTE HIS NAME WE DO LOVE HIM SO MUCH AND WE CANNOT ACCEPT THAT.. SO LADIES AND GENTLEMAN .. PLEASE DO CARE PEOPLE.. I SWEAR IN THE NAME OF GOD ..EXCEPT VIOLENCE DELIVERERS .. I DO LOVE EVERYONE LIVING.. I SWEAR IN THE NAME OF ALLAH.. AND EVEN FROM THE AFRO AMERICANS BEING KICKED BY POLICE IN USA , TO THE CHILDREN KILLED IN PALESTINE OR THE WHALES HUNTED WITHOUT ANY PATIENCE , TO THE ONES DIED IN 11 SEPT..I FEEL SORRY FOR EVERY INNOCENT MOVEMENT IN THE WORLD .. REALLY I CANNOT EVEN WATCH THE FUR TAKERS IN CHINA FROM LIVING ANIMALS ..AND Most OF THE MUSLIMS IN THE WORLD ARE LIKE THIS ... I SWEAR BECAUSE OUR BELIEF SAYS THAT ...DO TRUST ME ... the problem is that you need to calm down... burning flags, kidnapping people, massive demonstrations, boycotts and violence, for what? a cartoon... muslims are taking it too far too often it seems... i'm sorry to say this but i'm fearing a ww2 rerun all over again but with other parts involved... this time hitler will probably be the USA and the jews muslims because of this fanatic idiocy that spreads fear around the world... the world will not tolerate this kind of behavior forever, seeking every opportunity and always reacting with violence. calm down, calm down... /M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johan Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I'm not sure that there is such a divide any more. Sure, there was at one point, but Islam is now the second largest religion in Europe. As I'm sure you know (and has been much debated) Muslims are coming to Europe in droves. The times of being able to tell them not to pay attention have passed, I think. Sure Muslims who live in Denmark have the right to speak out and vote , and use their democratic rights. But.. that’s not what is happening right now.. Muslims who live in not western states try to tell people in an Western state how to live. That’s a big difference You know I am very involved in this subject. I am a teacher. I give lessons to Muslims. I teach them the values we have in the Netherlands. So I know what I am talking about. Muslims who live in the West, should know our values and have respect for them. And I can tell you. Most Muslims I teach are very nice people. But most of them know nothing about the native culture in the Netherlands. So it is important to know and understand all cultures. Not just Western people knowing Muslims believes . But also Muslims knowing our values and respecting them. If that would happen, I think they would not be so mad about the cartoons. The would realise that is not about hurting or disrespecting Muslims. Its about different way’s and values’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeching Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 i am calm...but really hard to understand people... look lets think you are growing tulips ...and there is man shouting there .... Whoever grows tulips is fool...and someone says that well he has his ideas ...it is the freedom of thinking... thats so ridicilous for me.... and this is not only botanics...thats the deepest point since the existence of human beings.... why will i need to let people who doesnt care about other people in the name of freedom of thinking.... FREEDOM OF THINKING IS AGAINST IDEAS NOT THE PEOPLE...YOU CAN THINK IN A DIFFERENT WAY.. TELL THAT...TRY TO EXPLAIN THAT..BUT YOU CANNOT INSULT THE ROOTS..THE DOGMAS...THE MASS BELIEFS...IF YOU GO AND START QUARRELING ABOUT THE SIDE EFFECTS OF ALCOHOL WITH A LOUD VOICE IN A HEAVY DRINKERS BAR ... THEY WILL KICK YOUR LOVELY ASS...AND YOU CANT SAY "WELL .. THIS IS FREEDOM OF THOUGHT " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripoflive Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 What I want to know is why the hell is this cartoon being made in the first place???? It isnt in the least bit funny and its making fun of one of the best human beings of all time! This is a proof of how ignorant people can be! When christian do something stupid (which happens alot!), like the Columbine incident or the McVeigh incident, muslims dont go and make fun of Jesus! This is stupidity at its greatest...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeching Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 If that would happen, I think they would not be so mad about the cartoons. The would realise that is not about hurting or disrespecting Muslims. Its about different way’s and values’ Funny...Really if that is hurting people ...then what is it for ....if it is disrespecting ...then what is it for ? I am trying to explain even you are not aiming to hurt or disrespect...THAT IS HURTING AND DISRESPECTFUL FOR A MUSLIM.... IF I GO TO A CHURCH AND TRY TO PEE ON THE DOOR WILL YOU ACCEPT THIS ...IT IS NOT ABOUT WAYS AND VALUES..IT IS JUST ABOUT LOSS OF EMOTIONAL QUANTITY AND NOT USING EMPATHY.... THATS RUDE ...CULTURE LOSS CAUSES THOSE...PROVOCATING ( SOUNDS A MEANING ? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJägermeister Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 IF I GO TO A CHURCH AND TRY TO PEE ON THE DOOR WILL YOU ACCEPT THIS ... Just do it when there are enough people in there, it will be a funny show for all these freaks Buy some beer for us and call me I'm comming with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johan Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 YOU CAN THINK IN A DIFFERENT WAY.. TELL THAT...TRY TO EXPLAIN THAT..BUT YOU CANNOT INSULT THE ROOTS..THE DOGMAS...THE MASS BELIEFS... " Dear Teeching, I understand that you feel that the cartoons are really insulting and wrong. I understand, I really do. So I hear you. (YOU DONT HAVE TO USE CAPS LOCK FOR THAT) But you should realise that there are a lot of different opinions about the cartoons. I find the cartoons funny , and still I respect Muslims and do not think bad about all Muslims.( I am not a fan of religion in general, but that’s a different discussion) So I say the cartoons are funny. You say, the cartoons are insulting. So ... what should happen then... Is your opinion more important than mine? Is an opinion that has a religious base, more important than an opinion or believe that have a democratic base or non religious origin? . I think not... I think that all believes are important.. Muslims believes, Christian believes and believes and options of not religious people. They are all important, and one believe is not more important than the other believe. So saying that. You should know in western culture it is normal to mock religions. To mock the pope, to mock Jesus, to mock politicians. To mock everybody really. So if we want to mock Muslims. Its not .. we versus Muslims.. no.. its our culture to mock and make cartoons about things that are happening all over the world. Accept it.. accept the difference of thinking.. Then I am sure.. al people will accept you and your Muslims brothers. Don’t feel insecure.. people will accept you.. but only if you accept people who think different than you. It’s a two way street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 There is an interesting link on this subject http://info2us.dk/muhammed which shows the history of depicting the prophet, and many other links.. those who were offended by the original cartoons (included here) should not look. The part that has been lost is the original reason for the cartoons: A Danish author was writing a book about Mohammed, and wanted someone to illustrate it, but no-one was willing to take the job because of the fear of a rushdie-type fatwa. Therefore the newspaper invited a number of artists to submit their renditions, and the rest is history. One of the cartoons shows a cartoonist drawing Mohammed whilst looking nervously over his shoulder Mashugly suggested that the divide between european & muslim culture in european countries is not so great anymore, the truth is it varies enormously between countries. From my time in London I remember having numerous muslim friends & thinking nothing of it. in other parts of europe I never meet a muslim socially at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johan Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Mocking the pope; Mocking {censored}'s Mocking Muslims: edit: cencored, because of ??? What? You tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeching Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 QUO VADIS ,DOMINE ???? no more replies to this topic from me ..i just tried.. I DO ALSO NOT ACCEPT TOUCHING POPE WITH DIRTY HANDS...{censored} R OUT OF THIS TOPIC.how dare we consider religions with choices..( I used caps lock to make it easier to receive the message .but noway ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebush05 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Dear Teeching, I understand that you feel that the cartoons are really insulting and wrong. I understand, I really do. So I hear you. (YOU DONT HAVE TO USE CAPS LOCK FOR THAT) But you should realise that there are a lot of different opinions about the cartoons. I find the cartoons funny , and still I respect Muslims and do not think bad about all Muslims.( I am not a fan of religion in general, but that’s a different discussion) So I say the cartoons are funny. You say, the cartoons are insulting. So ... what should happen then... Is your opinion more important than mine? Is an opinion that has a religious base, more important than an opinion or believe that have a democratic base or non religious origin? . I think not... I think that all believes are important.. Muslims believes, Christian believes and believes and options of not religious people. They are all important, and one believe is not more important than the other believe. So saying that. You should know in western culture it is normal to mock religions. To mock the pope, to mock Jesus, to mock politicians. To mock everybody really. So if we want to mock Muslims. Its not .. we versus Muslims.. no.. its our culture to mock and make cartoons about things that are happening all over the world. Accept it.. accept the difference of thinking.. Then I am sure.. al people will accept you and your Muslims brothers. Don’t feel insecure.. people will accept you.. but only if you accept people who think different than you. It’s a two way street. Here's the thing... Teeching can't just 'accept' it. Viewing the cartoons are a violation of his faith. What your asking him to do is violate his own beliefs. Western culture allows Teeching to believe his beliefs, and those that mock his beliefs are being intolerant. Its not 'American' to disrepect peoples religious beliefs. You've got it backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johan Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 QUO VADIS ,DOMINE ???? no more replies to this topic from me ..i just tried You tried, really.. you tried to understand and respect people who think different than yourselves. Well that's great. So there is hope after all. viva la difference, viva freedom of speech, viva all people in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouch Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Its an interesting point thats made about respect being a two way street - and even though i disagree with the publishing of the cartoon i think the extreme reactions depected in the media amongst certain muslims are really just rising to the bait - however what you have to remember is that a common thread among monotheistic religions is that believers are called to evangelise their beliefs and to tell muslim's to "live and let live" is to misunderstand the nature of their religion which sees contrary beliefs or values as just plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metrogirl Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I find it amusing to hear blonde jokes or see cartoons about women drivers and PMS and yet I fall into all of those categories. I don't find it hurtful, insulting or distressing, in fact often it's quite funny. However I come from a culture where it's normal to poke fun at friends and we (the English) are renowned for putting ourselves down and laughing at ourselves. Fundamentally, I know the difference between a joke and an insult. The people who are hurt by this sort of thing do feel genuinely aggrieved - often to an extent which is surprising to the rest of us - and it's important to respect this. For example I avoid 'fat' jokes with my one of my colleagues because he (being rather heavy) would be very upset. In a public forum like this it's a certainty that someone will disagree with what you say so you have a responsibility to consider the feelings of others. I can sympathise with our Muslim friends who are offended by the cartoons, even though I do not find them offensive myself. Nor would I find cartoons slamming my religion, sex or anything else offensive because I would see them for what they were - a distorted view. During the various global conflicts the Russians depicted the Americans as fat pigs, the Germans depicted the British as idle layabouts, the British depicted the Germans as ... and so on. Those clever cartoons were propaganda, not reality. I believe in the power of free speech. But as with all power, it should be used responsibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johan Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Here's the thing... Teeching can't just 'accept' it. Viewing the cartoons are a violation of his faith. What your asking him to do is violate his own beliefs. Western culture allows Teeching to believe his beliefs, and those that mock his beliefs are being intolerant. Its not 'American' to disrepect peoples religious beliefs. You've got it backwards. I do not mean to disrespect peoples religious beliefs, or to disrespect any people believe. Beliefs of religious people and non religious people. So to me he gets the same respect that I have for everybody. But the thing is, even though I do not intend to disrespect other peoples beliefss. I do realize that some of my opinions are disrespecting in others people eyes . So I am saying it again, being insulted is a very personal opinion. People have different idea’s and opinions. Some people believe in evolution a la Darwin, some people find that insulting. So .. should the teaching of Darwin be forbidden because some religious people are offended by it . No of course not… freedom of speech.. that’s the American way.. if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebush05 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I do not mean to disrespect peoples religious beliefs, or to disrespect any people believe. Beliefs of religious people and non religious people. So to me he gets the same respect that I have for everybody. But the thing is, even though I do not intend to disrespect other peoples beliefss. I do realize that some of my opinions are disrespecting in others people eyes . So I am saying it again, being insulted is a very personal opinion. People have different idea’s and opinions. Some people believe in evolution a la Darwin, some people find that insulting. So .. should the teaching of Darwin be forbidden because some religious people are offended by it . No of course not… freedom of speech.. that’s the American way.. if you ask me Its not a matter of being 'insulted' by the cartoons, its violation of the religion to view them. Its simply a matter of respect for him and his beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johan Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Its not a matter of being 'insulted' by the cartoons, its violation of the religion to view them. Its simply a matter of respect. what about the believes of the Danes, were is the respect for their idea's of freedom of speech? Or do you think that its more important to have respect for Muslims then for the Danes, or respect for other people’s view's it say no.. all idea's, all people are the same and should have the same treatment/rights.. we should not discriminate Muslims The Danish law tell that all people can say what they want.. it makes not exception for expressing views towards or about Muslims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJägermeister Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Its not a matter of being 'insulted' by the cartoons, its violation of the religion to view them. Its simply a matter of respect for him and his beliefs. If we begin with this {censored}, we have also to respect the catholics, protestants, hindous, satanist, scientology and every other weird sect on this planet. So in future we could never make a joke again because there will always be a guy witch is complaining Freedom of speech for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebush05 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 what about the believes of the Danes, were is the respect for their idea's of freedom of speech? Or do you think that its more important to have respect for Muslims then for the Danes, or respect for other people’s view's it say no.. all idea's, all people are the same and should have the same treatment/rights.. we should not discriminate Muslims The Danish law tell that all people can say what they want.. it makes not exception for expressing views towards or about Muslims Your saying that Danes are on your side? It's not a matter of freedom of speech! It's a matter of religious intolerance. Teeching has a simple request.. Teeching: 'I'd like to be a member of this community, but my religion forbids me from viewing X.. would you mind taking X down?' Johan: 'hell no.. freedom of speech.. if you don't like it, your not welcome.' Gotta love intolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johan Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Your saying that Danes are on your side? It's not a matter of freedom of speech! It's a matter of religious intolerance. Teeching has a simple request.. Teeching: i'd like to be a member of this community, but my religion forbids me from viewing X.. would you mind taking X down? Johan: freedom of speech.. if you don't like it, your not welcome. Gotta love intolerance. Who are you to decide who is welcome or not…. I say everybody is welcome.. welcome to express his views. I am a advocate of freedom of speech..and so are many other people in this forum, I am not alone on this. We are all part of this community. My views are just as important as Teeching views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebush05 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Who are you to decide who is welcome or not…. I say everybody is welcome.. welcome to express his views. I am a advocate of freedom of speech..and so are many other people in this forum, I am not alone on this. We are all part of this community. My views are just as important as Teeching views. I'm not saying you are not welcome.. Re-read what I wrote. I was implying that you are telling Teeching he is not welcome unless he dumps a certain religious belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johan Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I'm not saying you are not welcome.. Reread what I wrote. I was implying that you are telling Teeching he is not welcome unless he dumps a certain religious belief. Oh i see.. well that's a misunderstanding .. I also do not feel or meant to say.. Teeching is not welcome... if .. Teeching is welcome period.. But that won;t stop me from trying to communicate.. to spread a message Keeping the communincation goiing on is very important... I do not say: i only want to talk to him if he agrees with me.. god no I am tolerant to all views.. but i can not tolerate intolerance.. If i do that.. then i will end up not able to express my right of freedom of speech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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