Windows is not any less of an operating system because it's Windows.

[Alessandro17]

Because of about 1 00 000 viruses. Because of the tons of spyware and adware it is compatible with. Because of the complicated user interface. Because it's so hard for the averege user to maintain.

 

Very true. When I reinstall Linux or OS X, I can just copy an user and all its settings just as it is, no fuss whatsoever. XP and Vista are a total pain at that.

Add to that the bl##dy Registry and DLL hell...

[apowerr]

Because of about 1 00 000 viruses. Because of the tons of spyware and adware it is compatible with. Because of the complicated user interface. Because it's so hard for the averege user to maintain.

I would say for the typical user Windows is fine. As long as they dont go to malicious sites and such, which the normal user wont. Unless they want free porn: A rule of thumb, if you have to pay for it...you dont get viruses! I dont like porn anyway so im fine Windows IMO, is very easy to maintain, even if your a normal user. Im not saying its easier than OS X (most easiest thing eva!) but its not too complicated at all.

 

Very true. When I reinstall Linux or OS X, I can just copy an user and all its settings just as it is, no fuss whatsoever. XP and Vista are a total pain at that.

Add to that the bl##dy Registry and DLL hell...

Windows upgrade installs= Nightmare.

I hate the registry in a lot of ways

[Guest Ramm]

Strange. I have never gotten a virus or a piece of spyware on Windows. I guess it's all about how the user protects them self.

[bwhsh8r]

Strange. I have never gotten a virus or a piece of spyware on Windows. I guess it's all about how the user protects them self.

 

that and their internet habbits..... such as free porn/free serialzzzzz/bad warez sites (you learn the hard way which ones are bad.....)

 

i dont even run any av or anything (memory hungry vista... :s) and i havnt got infected, and i do all of the above =D

[firefoxussr]

You are wrong mate. Core Animation is indeed real time 3D acceleration API for OS X. It uses your GPU to perform the calculations and animation sequences...so it is hardware acceleration.

 

Right, I know it uses the GPU, cuz it uses some form of OpenGL. But my point was that they are simply 2D animation layers not actual 3D animation models like Vista. IDK, i just like how Vista really seems to take more advantage of its hardware. I also love to death the preview window that comes up if you hover over an app that's minimized (even shows the video real time!).

 

Strange. I have never gotten a virus or a piece of spyware on Windows. I guess it's all about how the user protects them self.

 

I know what you mean. I once downloaded version "2.0" of Alcohol 120%.... woops... Aside from that no viruses since like 1998. That was also me pirating software.

[EFI]

Right, I know it uses the GPU, cuz it uses some form of OpenGL. But my point was that they are simply 2D animation layers not actual 3D animation models like Vista. IDK, i just like how Vista really seems to take more advantage of its hardware. I also love to death the preview window that comes up if you hover over an app that's minimized (even shows the video real time!).

 

Yes, and no. Yes becuase Core Image actually uses 2D animation which looks like its doing 3D animation. The same is the case with Vista's graphical API...Avalon...its not 3D, its also only 2D. They way in which Vista uses its hardware is much different than the way in which OS X uses its (graphics) hardware. Vista' Direct X...or even Direct X in general requires the functions of the video card in order to function at all. Therfore, it needs shader model 2.0, subsurface scattering features, etc...in order for Direct X to function properly. OS X's OpenGL however...merely uses the video card for just acceleration. It has every single graphical effect built into Core Image itself, and uses the GPU's memory buffer for throutputting. This is why under OS X...the graphics animation (a la Quartz Extreme) will be super smooth regardless whether you are using a GeForce 7300 (entry level), or a Radeon X1900XT (high-end). The same cannot be said with Vista at all. The entry level card will start to struggle once you start doing heavy things. Another example is how smooth (to an extent) Quartz Extreme is on a Macbook with the Intel GMA950...which is integrated graphics. Try doing Aero Glass on Integrated graphics, and then compare it to how fast it will be with OS X's Quartz Extreme Animations.

 

Going back to my second point, Vista's graphics foundtion currently also only works in the 2D space. The Flip3D, that you see (if thats what made you think it was 3D) is not 3D...its merely 2D animation with layers added into the window transformation....it doesnt have another dimention...there actually is no 3D aspect to it....however its made to look 3D with depth of space and distance. The same is the result with OS X...have you seen a page flip slide transition in Keynote?, or Leopard's Time Machine? Its the same thing...it looks 3D, but its only 2D.

 

However, that being said...Core Animation, which is coming with Leopard, is set to increase the effects even further with advanced timing controls and reverse algorithms keys and increased effects that can easily be added by the API withtout any user coding required at all.

 

Its all illusion of 3D....in reality both the operating systems only go as far as 2D. Turning an entire operating system in 3D is not an easy task whatsoever, but it is rather easy to make it look and fool the user by doing animations in the z-space.

[Guest Ramm]

Why are we talking about Core Image now? Core image isn't used in Vista. I got what you said above, but I don't see how Core Image fits in.

[EFI]

Why are we talking about Core Image now? Core image isn't used in Vista. I got what you said above, but I don't see how Core Image fits in.

 

Core Image, Core Audio, Core Video, and Core Animation (in leopard) all make up what is known as Quartz Extreme....and it is this that makes up the graphical API of OS X. Core Image handles all the window effects you see in OS X (not the transitions, but window effects), like the translucency, multi-pass filters, etc, and help in the process of creating the illusion of a 3D look.

[Guest Ramm]

Ah, nevermind. I seem to have read what you said wrongly... somehow. I thought you said that Core Image was Vista's API.

 

(I know wtf Core Image is, btw )

[MadDoggyca]

XP/2k don't, but how long 'till you want Vista? I can run Leopard on my 6 year old Quicksilver. I'd like to see Vista running usably on a 6 year old PC.http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...st&id=12866

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?act...st&id=12865

 

^^^ older then 6 years....

EFI your a itiot...

wait let me quote...Most (meaning 90%) of those "extra feateures" other than Dx10 can already be done in XP.

 

couhg never used Vista have you

 

^^^^^^^

let me list a few

DX10

Instead Search

MetaTags

kernal 6.0

Perview Panel in explore (for pictures, movies, musicn, Documents and ect. )

Fliters in Explore

Remapped Network CODE

UAC

Aero

DWM (hardware redered Desktop) (Unlike xp software rendered desktop)

Drive installtion Freeze. Updating drivers with out resarting pc.

Driver Crash restart engin...If a diver such as a Video card crashes it dosn;t take the OS down it just restarts...

SandBox apps/os operation. Apps are no loger running on system threads and if a app runs off your os dosn;t.

Advance Ram Mangiment...Ram not in use is wasted ram... and vista uses as much ram as it can = more stable faster OS

 

are just a few new feutres XP dose not have out of the box..lets see you turn off areo and what eles on that list disapares?... cough NONE

do your rearch before statiing lame facts

 

IN all honest most of you people hate windows these day is Becuz of WGA and WIndows Acitvation. in honest to your self if windows did not have WGA or actvation would would be really complaning? and Viruse and Mal-ware and spyware can only infact a pc if the user lets it in in the first place...

[MadDoggyca]

OH an EFI before you make another Lame stament such as

 

Most (meaning 90%) of those "extra feateures" other than Dx10 can already be done in XP.

 

remmber ot do this before had....

 

I will use google before making a stupied coment.I will use google before making a stupied coment.I will use google before making a stupied coment.I will use google before making a stupied coment.I will use google before making a stupied coment.I will use google before making a stupied coment.I will use google before making a stupied coment.I will use google before making a stupied coment.

 

or you could read

 

oh BTW the book came with the book in PDF on disc if u wnat it...,

[Sabr]

Guys - come on. I know it's hard, but at least try to act like mature adults.

 

- Sb.

[Guest Ramm]

MadDoggyca, first of all, you didn't understand what EFI said, so you listed a response to something that wasn't stated. You were listing things that didn't come with XP. Of course they don't. But, nearly every single thing you listed (aside of DX10, of course) is possible with the XP framework.

 

[MadDoggyca]

I tryed I really did I when there the hole thread with out giving a dam untill I read that quite,, I couldn't hold back....being a IT in Linux, OSX as well being a MS Connect Member for QA and other inside jobs I lost it....

 

but atlest I tried...lol

 

But, nearly every single thing you listed (aside of DX10, of course) is possible with the XP framework.

 

He did not states anythign aobut the XP framework in his coment... he jsut staed XP could do them... or alrdy can do them ... when infact some of the aobve have not been done for xp but if osme one wated to coudl make them under the framwork... buts it not out of the box exprinces now is it? and XP can not do them if there not there?

 

ytes then were talking 3rd part software and lets look at the instead seach with Vista

 

the only other instead sort of search for XP is googles desktop with if u ever run it woudl agree it dosn;t work and it hogs recorues....

 

the diffrent between "possible with the XP framework." and alrdy build into Vista is system Resoucres..who makes it and how well it works when its not a main part of the os?

 

and some things like DWM (hardware Rendered Desktop) is somthign xp will never do.... becuz the OS wan;t built to do it.

 

as well the main core of any os the .Kernal xp will never run or see the light of day os kernal 6.0 and above. it will alwzs stay at 5.X (x being SP1 Sp2 or SP3 comming out)

 

now having Said sp3 comming out who know how many of the above vista only feture I talked about excluding DX 10 will be out of the box for XP. there is rumors of DX 9.L withc is supsoe to be Waterdown DX10 for vista will be hititng XP as well. but for now there a lot of only Vista Fetures that XP dose not have ATM

[apowerr]

EFI your a itiot...

MadDoggyca, while I appreciate that you are stating your side of an argument EFI is not an idiot. I have never seen a stupid or unconstructive post made by him. I know it gets frusturating when people act like Windows is the worse thing in the world (and its quite common on this forum, but its a mac forum ffs ) but EFI is not one of them.

[EFI]

EFI your a itiot...

 

It's spelt "idiot", by the way. And its "an idiot", not "a idiot", since the next word starts with a vowel.

 

couhg never used Vista have you

 

Its spelt as "cough", not "couhg"

 

Actually yes, I have used Vista, I've used the Beta 2, Pre-RC1, RC1, and the final release version as well, for nearly half a year up to this April...so I know what I am indeed talking about.

 

DX10

Thats one of the features not part of the 90%....it falls under the 10% because its not widely adopted yet

 

Instead Search

 

First of all, its known as "Windows Desktop Search", not "Instead Search"

Secondly, Google Desktop search is already avaliable for XP: http://desktop.google.com/index.html?ignua=1

 

 

MetaTags

 

MetaTags is only used for the Windows Desktop Search feature, and Google Desktop Search also has built in meta tag scan function for Windows XP. So once again...this feature is available for Windows XP as well.

 

kernal 6.0

 

Kernal 6.0, has nothing major to it...it is all minor management features that are not visible to the user under normal operation . They include:

 

- Memory management improvement

- Better application support

- Power management

- Plug and Play

- Hardware Abstraction Layer

 

Out of those 5 touted Kernal 6.0 features, the only one that gets attention is the HAL.

 

The rest are small enough to be considered into the 90% range, since the user does not see it on a regular use...its all under the hood, so to speak. The rest of them are already present in Windows XP, just to a lesser degree, however with higher hardware, it does not really matter.

 

 

Perview Panel in explore (for pictures, movies, musicn, Documents and ect. )

 

Its spelt as "Preview", not "Perview".

 

For music, yes, this is a new feature. For pictures, it was already present in Windows XP (SP2) with even full screen preview, and for documents; most applications now have a built in "thumbnail" preview that they can attach to the saved document, so that they automatically show up in the window without any preview engine built into the operating system...so this is nothing major either.

 

 

Fliters in Explore

 

Filters were already avaliable under Windows XP as well. Sort by Name, by date, by time, by modification, etc. I have even seen some registry hacks on some sites (especially this particular one), that allow you to unlock hidden options for filters. So again, nothing new other than the fact that its placed in a different location in Vista.

 

 

Remapped Network CODE

 

Yes, THIS is a new feature. That makes the count to 3 so far.

 

UAC

 

Yes, its a new feature, but it's severely flawed. It does not make a difference whether its there or not. Extensions with .msi can easily be executed without the UAC confirmation dialog. Furthermore, you run on an administrative account by default, which kind of kills the whole purpose of security altogether. Perhaps you should read this for more information and widen your knoledge how the User Access Control works before just stating.....'UAC'....

 

http://www.techworld.com/security/news/ind...agtype=samechan

 

UAC is more or less as secure as Windows Security Center in Windows XP. The thought is appreciated (in all honesty), but the functionality is crippled.

 

Aero

 

This can easily be done with the numerous Aero themes avaliable online on sites like Win Customize and DeviantArt, on use in softwares like StyleXP or WindowBlinds. I have even seen themes where the blur effect under the windows is replicated perfectly. If you are going to say that the window style (location of toolbars, etc) still looks the same, then check out Pimpmydesk.org. They offer shell styles that can change the location of your main explorer toolbar and icons to exactly match that of Windows Vista. They even have some that mimic OS X's Finder quit well I must say.

 

 

DWM (hardware redered Desktop) (Unlike xp software rendered desktop)

 

Yes, another feature, but it requires the HAL layer in order for it to work. So its HAL + DWM as 1 feature. They cant be considered as two seperate features because one requires the other to work.

 

Drive installtion Freeze. Updating drivers with out resarting pc.

 

Not quite my friend. This applies to several more drivers than under Windows XP, however you still need to restart the computer for many drivers to take effect. One example includes installing the video driver. When I was testing out the RTM version, after I installed the ForeWare drivers, I had to re-install the PC in order for the nVIdia display drivers to take effect. Same went with my Canon's Scanner driver, and my Canon printer driver as well.

 

In order for this feature to be considered "new" updaing drivers should NEVER require a restart, and since thats not the case that 5% of the time...this is nothing major, however a welcomed update.

 

Driver Crash restart engin...If a diver such as a Video card crashes it dosn;t take the OS down it just restarts...

 

Windows XP also has this feature...although it does not always work out. When my ATI card (before I bought the nVidia GPU) crashed...the screen automatically reset with the ATI VPU recovery popup displayed on the screen. It then reset the card, and all was fine after that. So again, not a new feature, since its already capable of happening under XP. It all depends on how well developers implement their recovery module in their drivers.

 

 

SandBox apps/os operation. Apps are no loger running on system threads and if a app runs off your os dosn;t.

 

Yes, another new feature. The count is now at 4.

 

 

Advance Ram Mangiment...Ram not in use is wasted ram... and vista uses as much ram as it can = more stable faster OS

 

Not exactly. While Vista's memory management is better than XP's, Vista still cannot utilize more than 2Gb of ram at the operating system level...you will not notice a difference in operating system speed if you go above 2Gb. I have done this experiment already in BestBuy with a Vista system with 1Gb (Acer), 2Gb (Toshiba), and 4Gb (Sony) of ram. Under XP, going from 512MB to 1Gb was a huge notice in speed improvement, but from 1Gb to 2Gb...there is no speed improvement whatsoever. Under Vista, going from 512Mb > 1Gb > 2Gb, there were noticible speed improvements, but going from 2GB > 4Gb...there is no difference whatsoever.

 

The "advanced ram management" is still limited in the sense. Again, nothing new from Windows XP, other than it can utilize higher ram, but the speed improvement still feels the same as in XP because of the GUI rendering under Vista. Its not like Vista feels snappier...not even close. XP (with 2Gb RAM), and Vista (with 4Gb RAM), still feel the same in terms of speed when you max out the RAM on both OS.

 

 

are just a few new feutres XP dose not have out of the box..lets see you turn off areo and what eles on that list disapares?... cough NONE

do your rearch before statiing lame facts

 

Its spelt "features XP does", not "feutres XP dose"

 

Out of the box, no. However, I was not talking about "out of the box" to begin with now was I? I was merely talking about all the avaliable 3rd party addons that are avaliable for XP up to this point in time. Looks like you need to do your researching before mirroring (its spelt "stating", with one 'i' btw, not "statiing") what ever is posted on Microsoft's Windows Vista homepage.

 

[apowerr]

EFI's above post was some of the hardest pwnage I have seen outside a video game in a long, long time.

[JusticeRocks]

Yes, its a new feature, but it's severely flawed. It does not make a difference whether its there or not. Extensions with .msi can easily be executed without the UAC confirmation dialog. Furthermore, you run on an administrative account by default, which kind of kills the whole purpose of security altogether. Perhaps you should read this for more information and widen your knoledge how the User Access Control works before just stating.....'UAC'....

 

It's spelled "knowledge". I'd also suggest that in any case in which one desires to degrade another's opinions based on spelling, then one should also use proper grammar. Such means to prove a point, unless actually part of the discussion or for the furtherance of sarcasm, merely suggest a lack of self esteem. That coupled with a desire to be right, whether that requires changes and suggestions as to, "well I said this, but this also works so I guess I'll say that now".

 

Its = possessive

It's = It is

 

Don't forget all that necessary punctuation.

Sarcasm is fantastic.

Have a mediocre day.

[Alessandro17]

It's spelled "knowledge". I'd also suggest that in any case in which one desires to degrade another's opinions based on spelling, then one should also use proper grammar. Such means to prove a point, unless actually part of the discussion or for the furtherance of sarcasm, merely suggest a lack of self esteem. That coupled with a desire to be right, whether that requires changes and suggestions as to, "well I said this, but this also works so I guess I'll say that now".

 

Its = possessive

It's = It is

 

Don't forget all that necessary punctuation.

Sarcasm is fantastic.

Have a mediocre day.

 

I couldn't care less. EFI is one of the few people here who actually know what they are talking about and his arguments are convincing and to the point. That is what matters to me. And nobody should call him "a itiot" as MadDoggyca did.

And BTW, in case you have anything to say about my English, my mother tongue is Italian.

[EFI]

It's spelled "knowledge". I'd also suggest that in any case in which one desires to degrade another's opinions based on spelling, then one should also use proper grammar. Such means to prove a point, unless actually part of the discussion or for the furtherance of sarcasm, merely suggest a lack of self esteem. That coupled with a desire to be right, whether that requires changes and suggestions as to, "well I said this, but this also works so I guess I'll say that now".

 

Its = possessive

It's = It is

 

Don't forget all that necessary punctuation.

Sarcasm is fantastic.

Have a mediocre day.

 

First of all, I accept that the "knoledge" spelling error was my fault, and also the occasional confusion between "Its" , and "It's". That being said, comparing one small spelling error to 6+ major spelling errors indicates that you have nothing better to do or cannot and/or fail to offer a proper rebuttal to my reasoning, so instead read over my entire post, and fail completely to understand the meaning behind my reasoning, which leads me to my next sentence. I am not degrading an opinion based on spelling, I am merely pointing out the reckless and irrational post made previously without any proper thought given to whether or not the feature is already present, or can be replicated under Windows XP. I also made my reasoning clear and concise as to why Windows Vista's touted features are not as new and revolutionary as they are claimed to me. I am not denying the fact that there are new features.

 

Nice philosophical post, however it fails to better justify or refute the primary title of this thread.

[siddharth]

EFI dude... You ROCK!

[Rez.]

Well as far as Pwnage goes ... JusticeRocks : 1 - EFI : 0

[Guest Ramm]

Inevitably, this has turned into a flame war. Colonel/Hagar/Sabr/any other mods, please lock this...

[Alessandro17]

Well as far as Pwnage goes ... JusticeRocks : 1 - EFI : 0

 

That is of course your opinion as a well known MS shill.

[EFI]

Inevitably, this has turned into a flame war. Colonel/Hagar/Sabr/any other mods, please lock this...

 

 

Not even,

 

Thats why I replied back calmly....and notice I did not compare OS X even once in my reply?, this was done so I was trying to PREVENT a flame war if anything.