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MacBidouille.com threatened by Apple lawyers


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thank god the americans are all brave!

they throw atomic bombs and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians in one second, they invade countries for oil and kill there thousands of innocent people, etc. etc. etc...

 

yes, the french are cowards!

:unsure:

 

 

You are right thank god the Americans are brave, unless you prefer that your flag looked more like a swastika. How many American crosses are on French soil? Its not like WWII was some unimaginable amount of time ago, there are still a lot of those veterans around that watched their friends get mowed down on French soil. Is it possible that American's might be offended by such comments because thousands of them died to free France from Germany?

 

The amount of territory that the Americans freed from Germany Italy and Japan in just three years is staggering and it is due to people whom I only wish I could be as brave as.

 

And whereas the Japanese army fought each island battle to the last man standing (surrender was a shameful act) would you rather take your army and invade the main land, losing hundered of thousand of troups, or bomb them to surrender, which by the way worked AND ended world war two.

 

P.S. Don't you think we would be attempting to keep Iraq if we wanted oil rather than trying to give it back?

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Now I'm also panicking. I was checking my OSXx86 bookmarks a few moments ago and one of them ( http://www.strengholt-online.nl/osx_howto/index.htm ) says "All content removed on Apple's Request! This directory is empty!"

 

The most funny thing is that the rest of the site is online full of news, reports and screenshots about Windows Vista Beta, including the ones in the wild!

 

Please, confirm your bookmarks and report back.

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You are right thank god the Americans are brave, unless you prefer that your flag looked more like a swastika. How many American crosses are on French soil? Its not like WWII was some unimaginable amount of time ago, there are still a lot of those veterans around that watched their friends get mowed down on French soil. Is it possible that American's might be offended by such comments because thousands of them died to free France from Germany?

 

The amount of territory that the Americans freed from Germany Italy and Japan in just three years is staggering and it is due to people whom I only wish I could be as brave as.

 

And whereas the Japanese army fought each island battle to the last man standing (surrender was a shameful act) would you rather take your army and invade the main land, losing hundered of thousand of troups, or bomb them to surrender, which by the way worked AND ended world war two.

 

P.S. Don't you think we would be attempting to keep Iraq if we wanted oil rather than trying to give it back?

 

 

Speaking as a person who lost a lot of family in WWII (5 great uncles @ Normandy and a few in the Pacific), I think they should calm down before they bash the American military.

 

Yes, our leadership has not been, well, wonderful, But soon he will be gone, and hopefully we will vote in someone decent this time.

 

It amazes me how many country's dont like America and Americans, but they LOVE our money, and I don't mean just tourism either.

 

I won't bash any specific country, there is no need, but watch as terrorism spreads how many country's will look for us again. When we're needed, we're loved. When we're not, we're bashed.

 

England is pretty much the only country with courage over there, and before you bash me on that, think about how easily your country rolled over in the face of terrorism.

 

Who did the free world look to during the cold war? I believe it was England and the US.. Hmm, didn't see the soviet's really worried about France or Spain did you? I didn't think so.

 

Oh and by the way, I hope you're also enjoying the Internet which we gave everyone, which now gives you the complete freedom to bash the US.

 

Anyhow enough with Politics.. People believe what they want, so be it.

 

Can we go back to how Apple want's to invade Iran because the labs that are making te Uranium for bombs are aparently using the dev version of OSX? :unsure:

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At this point, my only question is:

 

Why is this site still up? (and I really doubt that it has anything to do with World War II :unsure: ).

 

Otherwise, I think it may be time for somebody to purpose a new meeting place that is well outside the reach of Apple Legal.

 

I would also like to note that Apple may have a hard time taking the IRC channels down, so that would be the next place to look for information if this site goes offline.

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At this point, my only question is:

 

Why is this site still up?  (and I really doubt that it has anything to do with World War II :unsure: ).

 

 

It's still up because of a simple reason. The apple law department recently installed OSX86 on their Dell laptops, and they can't seem to get networking and printing working either, so theres a delay in the mailings :huh:

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Very nice Bofors... :(

 

But now, can we please stay on topic? Next person to bring up more {censored} on WWII or the French is getting their post deleted....and an e-punch in the face. <_>

 

It's clear that more and more sites are being taken down as a result of Apple Legal, or possibly some other thing that we haven't considered. The main point is, If the site stay's legal, (and by legal, I mean not distributing such illegal files, as per our site's policy), we should not be harmed by Apple Legal. We should not be getting a slap on the wrist for simply displaying images or videos displaying what other users have accomplished. I think that it was wrong for such a move to be made on MacBidouille, who were simply reporting on the news, but not necessarily condoning it in any way. The same goes for us, who simply report on the news and events of the community. Afterall, don't kill the messenger....

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Very nice Bofors...  :D

 

But now, can we please stay on topic? Next person to bring up more {censored} on WWII or the French is getting their post deleted....and an e-punch in the face.  :(

 

It's clear that more and more sites are being taken down as a result of Apple Legal, or possibly some other thing that we haven't considered. The main point is, If the site stay's legal, (and by legal, I mean not distributing such illegal files, as per our site's policy), we should not be harmed by Apple Legal. We should not be getting a slap on the wrist for simply displaying images or videos displaying what other users have accomplished. I think that it was wrong for such a move to be made on MacBidouille, who were simply reporting on the news, but not necessarily condoning it in any way. The same goes for us, who simply report on the news and events of the community. Afterall, don't kill the messenger....

 

 

Sorry, I just had to toss my comments in about that. But I did try to be humorus :)

 

Yes, your right. Site's are posting news, thats it. I agree 100% if a site is distributing Apple code, they have a right to go after them. But we have a right to just talk, share stories, and look a pictures of OSX on a machine.

 

I own a Mac and a PC, I like them both. No complaints, they do their jobs. Since this happend with OSX, my hard core PC friends are now interested in MACs. Not that they want to install it illegally, but they are excited they could maybe have another OS to run on their $2000.00 laptops or high end gaming rigs.

 

None of them would buy a MAC when they have so much invested in their pc, But give them a chance to buy a 200 or 300.00 OS, they would in a heartbeat, myself included.

 

This is just like Windows VISTA, longhorn, etc, God I think it was leaked the day it was released. Sure Microsoft will go after blatent pirates, but I think they count on it leaking to get it tested, and apps ported quicker.

 

You know, what apple should do is this. Make a public X86 beta. Time lock it. If they are really concerned go one step above, key it, and don't let it work unless it calls home. Give it 120 days say.

 

You'll have SO many people hooked on it, so much support for it, so much software, even IF they close it to Apple only hardware, people will save up to get a machine at that point.

 

It could really work for them, and us, and they don't have to worry about Piracy, cause its an open beta.

 

I don't know, I'm just rambling here, but I don't want all of us to lose the chance of having another great OS to use, and choose from.

 

We could start a petition to ask Apple to make it an Open Beta, Hell, charge us a fee for it, whatever they feel is appropriate. :P

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Sorry, I just had to toss my comments in about that. But I did try to be humorus B)

 

Yes, your right. Site's are posting news, thats it. I agree 100% if a site is distributing Apple code, they have a right to go after them. But we have a right to just talk, share stories, and look a pictures of OSX on a machine.

 

I own a Mac and a PC, I like them both. No complaints, they do their jobs. Since this happend with  OSX, my hard core PC friends are now interested in MACs. Not that they want to install it illegally, but they are excited they could maybe have another OS to run on their $2000.00 laptops or high end gaming rigs.

 

None of them would buy a MAC when they have so much invested in their pc, But give them a chance to buy a 200 or 300.00 OS, they would in a heartbeat, myself included.

 

This is just like Windows VISTA, longhorn, etc, God I think it was leaked the day it was released. Sure Microsoft will go after blatent pirates, but I think they count on it leaking to get it tested, and apps ported quicker.

 

You know, what apple should do is this. Make a public X86 beta. Time lock it. If they are really concerned go one step above, key it, and don't let it work unless it calls home. Give it 120 days say.

 

You'll have SO many people hooked on it, so much support for it, so much software, even IF they close it to Apple only hardware, people will save up to get a machine at that point.

 

It could really work for them, and us, and they don't have to worry about Piracy, cause its an open beta.

 

I don't know, I'm just rambling here, but I don't want all of us to lose the chance of having another great OS to use, and choose from.

 

We could start a petition to ask Apple to make it an Open Beta, Hell, charge us a fee for it, whatever they feel is appropriate.  :)

Agree 100% but...you were doing so well...until the last line.

 

Asking a petition to Apple? Please...you're making me laugh.

 

It would be nice but in the past, petitions made so Apple acknowledged faulty screens, batteries, lousy PSUs and other parts were attended 6, 10, 12 months after that or never. Don't count on that.

 

But it was a sweet dream.

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Agree 100% but...you were doing so well...until the last line.

 

Asking a petition to Apple? Please...you're making me laugh.

 

It would be nice but in the past, petitions made so Apple acknowledged faulty screens, batteries, lousy PSUs and other parts were attended 6, 10, 12 months after that or never. Don't count on that.

 

But it was a sweet dream.

 

 

Well I do know a petiton is crazy, But funny.. B)

 

Maybe a March would be more effective....? :)

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It's clear that more and more sites are being taken down as a result of Apple Legal, or possibly some other thing that we haven't considered. The main point is, If the site stay's legal, (and by legal, I mean not distributing such illegal files, as per our site's policy), we should not be harmed by Apple Legal. We should not be getting a slap on the wrist for simply displaying images or videos displaying what other users have accomplished.

 

WRONG!

 

If you want to remain legal, and in Apple legal's good graces, I would suggest that you start by removing various screenshots from your contributors -- such screenshots display and demonstrate violations of the DMCA, and thus could be construed to serve as demonstrations, instructions, or motivations for other to do the same - that's the angle Apple legal would take were any of these to go to court, and it's a winning angle (irrelevant, since none of the sites has the finances to challenge Apple to find out).

 

Furthermore, displaying and linking to instructions for circumventions of Apple's licensed dev kit installations can also be construed as a violation under DMCA.

 

I think we all know that your site (or rather, the wiki associated with this site) contains such materials, and that puts you at risk. I would not be surprised if your site were to receive a subsequent cease & desist within the next 72 hours.

 

What you could do, is do something NO site has ever done, and that is to be proactive, and show some responsibility for your content and your stated mission statement -- in other words, that you contact Apple Legal before they contact you, and request for them to:

 

- audit your site, or respective sections of your site for compliance with your rights under the rights of discussion, debate, and satire (i.e. 'fair use').

 

- provide you with recommendations to allow your site to serve its mission, but also to remain compliant with Apple's rights, licenses and intellectual property.

 

- declare your willingness to cooperate with Apple to preserve Apple's properties and rights, and turn to them for guidance and instructions.

 

That approach sure would beat smart-ass back-volleys, and crying 'victim' after you get your wrist slapped, and it could also potentially assure far better collaboration with Apple -- Apple is know to cooperate with sites that show respect, and the spirit of cooperation, and really only takes action against sites that willfully ignore their request and interests. FWIW, all of the affected sites crying 'victim' fall in the 'willful' category.

 

I believe debate and discussion are protected, and in fact encouraged - willful disregard for Apple's interest will result in legal action.

 

Oh, and for those crying "What about Free Speech?" -- well, I suggest you get a clue before opening your mouth. Free Speech *from the government* is guaranteed to US citizens -- i.e. the government can not constrain your speech. It has absolutely no bearing on private contracts, or private interactions outside of the government judicial. (sigh!)

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Anyway, like every other belgian out here, i'm on my may to eating fries, chocolate and wafles, drinking gallons of tasty beers, urinating naked and hiding like a "typical" scared sh*tless European. That way I may get as fat and unaware as an average american, fingers crossed.

 

LOL!

 

I stil reel over the American gotcha of 'outlawing' French Fries and renaming them Freedom Fries, in an effort to 'show it to the French' -- considering the 'French Fry' is not even French, but rather Belgian, if anything, it further demonstrated the incessant ignorance, and stupidity of the American leadership and politicians.

 

Oh yeah, that's certainly showing them Frenchies...

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If you want to remain legal, and in Apple legal's good graces, I would suggest that you start by removing various screenshots from your contributors -- such screenshots display and demonstrate violations of the DMCA, and thus could be construed to serve as demonstrations, instructions, or motivations for other to do the same - that's the angle Apple legal would take were any of these to go to court, and it's a winning angle (irrelevant, since none of the sites has the finances to challenge Apple to find out).

 

Furthermore, displaying and linking to instructions for circumventions of Apple's licensed dev kit installations can also be construed as a violation under DMCA.

 

I think we all know that your site (or rather, the wiki associated with this site) contains such materials, and that puts you at risk. I would not be surprised if your site were to receive a subsequent cease & desist within the next 72 hours.

 

What you could do, is do something NO site has ever done, and that is to be proactive, and show some responsibility for your content and your stated mission statement -- in other words, that you contact Apple Legal before they contact you, and request for them to:

 

- audit your site, or respective sections of your site for compliance with your rights under the rights of discussion, debate, and satire (i.e. 'fair use').

 

- provide you with recommendations to allow your site to serve its mission, but also to remain compliant with Apple's rights, licenses and intellectual property.

 

- declare your willingness to cooperate with Apple to preserve Apple's properties and rights, and turn to them for guidance and instructions.

 

I think that all of above is probably well advised and I strongly encourage the site adminstration to serious discuss such action, in particular, contacting Apple and asking for it to review the site for any objectable material. (But do not ask for a "research" exemption under the DMCA at this time.)

 

The only other thing that I would add, is to ask Apple to explain what it's policy toward PearPC related sites has been and to make it clear that you wish to conform to any requirements set by Apple to be viewed as a PearPC-like website.

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"Excuse me officer, can you check my house for cocaine? I really don't think I've hidden any, but if you'd like to check inside all the jars in the cupboard and under the bed... I'm sure you'll find I'm innocent."

 

:lol:

 

I dunno, it doesn't sound like a great idea IMO.

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I dunno, it doesn't sound like a great idea IMO.

 

You're right - if you know to be in violation of applicable laws, then it's not such a good idea. If you are truthful, in intent and execution, then it's pretty much the only option you have available that has a chance of success.

 

Then again, if you're a criminal, it's certainly not a good idea.

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I dunno, it doesn't sound like a great idea IMO.

 

Of course, you are not contesting the advise to scour the site for explictly problematic content. Yet I reallly wonder about the "illegality" of screenshots. Furthermore, Apple's claims to "trade secrets" that it makes readily availible to its only competitor, Microsoft, are pathetic. More over, after these so-called "trade secrets" have leaked onto the Internet they must become "public domain" at some point.

 

Nevertheless, this is not the first time the idea of contacting Apple has come up and I am begining to think that a forthcoming defensive may be the right way to go. In particular, we have no working theory as to why Apple has yet to issue a "cease and desist" letter to this site, which certainly must be more offensive than MacBidouille.

 

Finally, should Apple choose to ignore or act on such a forthcoming letter, it would greatly weaken a their "moral" authority in the eyes of a jury. The Electronic Freedom Foundation (EFF) was contacted about this "case" last week and has yet to respond. Apparently, we can not rely on the availibility of pro bono defense consul (shocking).

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I hope that the osx86project.org administrators are backing up the database behind the wiki and the boards every day and "accidentally leaking" the data out onto the net. Get this info out there so it stays out there!

 

These days, it is possible to anonymously run sites such as this by using Tor (making a Hidden service for Tor). If you are really worried that Apple may abuse it's wealth to legally harass this site into shutting down or attempt to use the DMCA to restrict your fair rights or your freedom of speech, then put a mirror of this site up as a Tor hidden service where it can continue to exist anonymously and cannot be traced.

 

Here are details: Tor Hidden Services

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These days, it is possible to anonymously run sites such as this by using Tor (making a Hidden service for Tor).  If you are really worried that Apple may abuse it's wealth to legally harass this site into shutting down or attempt to use the DMCA to restrict your fair rights or your freedom of speach, then put a mirror of this site up as a Tor hidden service where it can continue to exist anonymously and cannot be traced. 

 

Here are details: Tor Hidden Services

 

 

Contact the EFF (electronic frontier foundation) before contacting Apple. Get them on your side. This is a place of discussion, not a software distribution site.

 

*CHANGED* By me..

 

You know, I was just surfing. There are TONS of sites talking about Windows Vista. Now this is also an OS that pretty much no one is supposed to have, in the general public, but its out there, which means its probably aquired the same way OSX86 was.

 

No one is shutting down those sites, the talk about tips, tricks, fixes, patches, everything this site does, oh and they have pictures too...

 

So whats the difference? I think the fact of the matter is this. Apple probably wants to charge a nice fee for their hardware again. They probably want people to THINK the hardware is different even though it runs an Intel chip.

 

The fact that pictures show it running on Bob's $699.00 Dell, Vs whatever they want to charge for an i86BOOK, would ruin their credibility.

 

Why else shut down sites that show PICTURES?? HELLO, PICTURES??? Am I the only one seeing the insanity in this?

 

Beware folks, not of the site being shut down, but if Apple is legally allowed to shut down these sites, this is about our rights to talk about stuff. Personally, if Apple gets away with shutting down sites like this, I'm sticking with Microsoft, and you all should too. If they get as big as Microsoft, Imagine the consiqunces.

 

As far as the DMCA, if it gets out of hand, time to switch permantly to Linux or GNU/HURD.

 

Computer companies want us to believe they are doing things for US, the poeple, but things like this show the truth, its the all mighty dollar, not what they can do for us, but how much they can make off us.

 

 

OSX is Pretty, but its not the end all be all.

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You sound like you know what you're talking about.

 

How about you get right on it?

 

No reason to be snippy, I am simply trying to get the word out that there are ways to run sites these days while simultaneously protecting your identity. When a rich would-be harasser (such as Apple) cannot determine who to send mean letters to (or worse, sick their lawyers on), they are forced to negotiate and ask nicely and even to acknowledge your first ammendment rights and walk away impotently.

 

The EFF is a fantastic organization and as a previous poster pointed out, they are your friends when you find yourself at the wrong end of a disagreement with a rich position-abusing adversary. The TOR system/network is sponsored by them, it's free and open-source and it allows you to be completely anonymous while browsing (both the Internet and the TOR network) and/or to put internet services into the TOR network that are completely anonymous.

 

I am using OS X now (on a powerbook) and I have configured TOR to run with firefox. I use Safari if I don't care and I use Firefox if I would prefer not to leave my IP splattered around or my network traffic analyzable or sniffable. I do this, not because I am doing anything illegal, but because it is absolutely certain that automated systems do traffic analysis and packet sniffing and you never know when something passing over the lines with your fingerprint might trigger a bot that leads some other wealthy power-abusing organization (such as the RIAA) with a hair up it's *ss to harass you.

 

I would strongly urge everyone here to take a look at TOR from the EFF, if for no other reason than by virtue of the fact that you are on this message board reading this thread, these issues are probably interesting to you.

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