[HowTo] Building an overclocked Core2Duo box for OSx86.

[bofors]

please also try if you can do the same with 4 memory sticks

 

I have not forgotten about trying this and hopefully I will get to it tomorrow (my second set of Corsair ValueSelect RAM now has heatspreaders attached). But I will post some results from XtremeSystems in the meantime:

 

 

Intel "Bad Axe 2" 975X

Intel Conroe E6600 L628

2x OCZ Platinum Rev.2 DDR2 800 (4GB)//2x G.Skill DDR2 800 (4GB|Testing)

 

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123606

 

It is not clear if this is a maximum overclock nor which set of RAM is being used here, but the effective memory frequency appears to be about 960MHz which is good.

[bofors]

Now that I can run dual displays with OSx86 on any motherboard and I have seen the overclocking of power of Conroe first hand I am becoming more committed to this deviant Hackintosh platform. I am selling all of PPC Mac gear and will be building two more overclocked Conroe boxes which should be very simliar to the one I just built.

 

Here is basically what I am changing.

 

- BadAxe2:

 

While I have yet to see anything close to the MWave deal on refurbished Bad Axe's for under $120 again, NewEgg regularly has "open boxes" for $160 which is still quite a bit cheaper than a new BadAxe 2 for $240 or so. But last night I ordered some RAM (detailed below) which runs best at about 2.45V, so a BadAxe 2 just is not going to cut it (unmodified). However, there are a couple other issues though.

 

My experimentation with running a large of number (four) of cheap hard drives in a RAID 0 (striped) array seems to be a success. However, I have had to boot off old IDE drives because all my SATA ports are full. The Bad Axe 2 uses a Marvell secondary RAID controller (88SE6145) which might work for hardware RAID (and give me four more SATA ports for "free", otherwise I would have to a buy some $25 card) with HighPoint's RocketRAID 2322 OS X driver (that is designed for a Marvell 88SX6081 RAID controller):

 

http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/rev...highpoint/2322/

http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA/pci_e_mac.htm

 

More importantly perhaps is Kentsfield. While I am unlikely to seriously consider them at $800+, they are bound to drop in price and perhaps by next summer they will be availble for about $500. When they are, I will probably upgrade and Kentsfields seem to overclock much better in the BadAxe 2 (which was designed for the new "quad" core chips):

 

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4111&s=7

http://sg.vr-zone.com/?i=4130

 

Finally, the BadAxe 2 may overclock the FSB to 500MHz on the 1066 strap (which is supposed to have higher performance than the 1333 strap on the 975x northbridge):

 

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=122752

 

EDIT: I guess I am sticking with the original BadAxes, Mwave had them at half off again so I bought two more. That deal is just too good to pass up.

 

- Xeon Conroe 3060:

 

While the upcoming E4300 Allendale will certainly be the overclocking bargain of 2007, I am now building something more of high end system. As I am finding out with CPU and memory, "bin-ing" (sorting chips by quality) is an important issue to consider when overclocking. In short, for a few dollars over an "OEM" chip, one is supposed to be able to a get a higher quality "Retail Box" (which includes a CPU cooler). For a little more money, one can get an even higher quality "Xeon" branded Conroe. This is what I am now planning on buying, the Xeon 3060 (which is technically identical to an E6600), 2.4 GHz, 4 MB cache: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=122224

 

Another reason I am feeling more liberal buying more expensive parts (other than I am increasing satisified with OSx86), is that it is easy to re-sell them to recover most of their value. I would have no problem of my E6300 as certified good overclocker for almost what I paid for it (and I actually will be replacing it probably with an Xeon 3060 as well). Likewise, when Kentsfields come down in price, I expect to have no problem unloading these Xeon 3060 I am planning like buy for at least 50% of what I paid for them. Same goes for the succusser to the Bad Axe 2, the BoneTrail which will sport the new X38 (BearLake-X) chipset. This can be approach like leasing a car, pay for only the time-value you use.

 

EDIT: I have now ordered three Xeon 3060. While I was very tempted to go with Fry's / Outpost.com deal on the E6400 for $207, I decided that it is worth spending an extra $100 to get something that should be significatly better on a $1000 system. On the other hand, E4300 samples are starting to surface and those will be a hot item for overclocking in a few months: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=122732

 

- Consair XMS 5400UL:

 

First of all, I must say that I am very happy with the Consair ValueSelect DDR2-667 RAM, I have been using and was actually thinking about getting some more. However, RAM prices have started to drop a little bit and there are many choices in the $200 ballpark that look better. For example, this Consair 5400C (DDR2-667, 4-4-4-12 @ 1.9V) with its heatspeaders, "XMS" branding and higher price looks like a good deal for $204 after rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820145015

 

But they very well may actually overclock much worse than the Consair ValueSelect RAM: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117720 The real manufacturer, model and "bin-ing" of RAM chip (IC) used are critical issues.

 

 

Because the NewEgg 5400C4 full part number, XMS5402v2.4 (readable on the above picture), does not appear on this list, I do not know what type of IC's it actually uses: http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44365 So as far as I know, the XMS5402v2.4 could actually be using cheap Promos IC's (which do not generally overclock well), while the Elpida chips in some "value" RAM (like my Consair ValueSelect) overclock much better: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=17

 

On the other hand, it is also possible that the XMS5402v2.4 uses the same Micron chips high end RAM modules do: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=15 To resolve this, it looks like I would have to post in Corsair's forum and wait for "RAM Guy" to look up the data and respond (or just order the RAM and see how well it overclocks firsthand).

 

Micron "D9" series chips are the generally regarded as the best RAM ICs on the market right now: http://ramlist.ath.cx/ddr2/ They can cost $400 for a 2 GB. However, there is twist to the Micron D9 story. They used make a version of it called the "fat body" because the chips are rather wide and large.

 

 

AnandTech: One of the first real DDR2 stars was Micron D fat body chips, which seemed to be used in every early DDR2 memory once memory companies realized how good they were. In a day where DDR2-400 was 1:1, the Micron DDR2 chips could be pushed all the way to DDR2-800 and beyond - and they could reach these speeds at the fastest timings (the lowest latencies) you could find in the market.

 

A few Intel enthusiasts paid a lot of attention to the Micron fat body D chips, but the rest of the enthusiast world was running in droves to the AMD platform which used older DDR memory instead. As a result Micron fat body D chips were only being talked about by a few die-hard Intel enthusiasts. Then Micron did what they have done many times before with some of their great enthusiast parts. They discontinued fat-body D chips, claiming yields (translate to profits) were not good enough to continue making what were clearly the best DDR2 chips on the market.

 

Since that time, nothing has really come along that is quite as good as the discontinued Micron fat-body D chips. Progress has been made by several memory manufacturers, and the current darling of DDR2 chips is made by Elpida. 2GB kits (2x1GB DIMMs) based on Elpida chips perform nearly as well as the legendary Micron chips.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2732

 

Here is a list of RAM modules which have used the Micron D9 "fat body": http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77442 But since, Micro no longer makes the "fat body", these have not available retail for about a year. Yet someone at NewEgg (or Corsair) has apparently been sitting on a small stock of them. In September, 24 kits (2 x 512MB) of Corsair 8000UL should up online for $160 and sold out in less than two days: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=116949 A few kits of 6400C3, single 5400UL sticks and a few more 8000UL kits should up later.

 

Over the weekend, 31 kits (2 x 512MB) of Consair 5400UL went online for $130. Due to "bin-ing", the revision is important and according to the guys at ExtremeSystems, if these are actually verision 1.2, which NewEgg's specs. and pictures indicate, this is some of the best the RAM ever made: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123720 So, I orderd 4 kits (4 GB). There 10 kits left as of now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820145564 Note this 5400UL is rated at DDR2-667 3-2-2-8 @ 2.1V but it supposed to clock up to 1080 MHz 4-3-2-1 @ 2.45V (That's right 4-3-2-1!) and top-out at 1140 MHz. While I suppose I would rather have 1 GB sticks, I was only planning on using 2 GB total in my new builds anyways (but 4 GB might improve performance sligthly for my work loads). Furthermore, smaller sticks may overclock better. And if nothing else, I should be able to resell this rare RAM for nice profit later.

 

EDIT: Contrary to NewEgg's specs and picture, it has shipped version 1.5 of the 5400UL kit to at least one person. Version 1.5 is rated at 3-3-2-8 (at opposed to 3-2-2-8), they are still Micron D9 "fat bodies" but a from a lower "bin-ing". The stuff is still probably worth getting at this price, but we no long talking about the best RAM ever made. There are 8 kits left. If someone reports they get some version 1.2, I might order some more, see if I get lucky and just send whatever version 1.5 I get back.

 

(more details on changes to the new build to follow).

[bofors]

I have not forgotten about trying this and hopefully I will get to it tomorrow (my second set of Corsair ValueSelect RAM now has heatspreaders attached).

 

I just spent some time working with my four sticks of Consair ValueSelect DDR-667 (1 GB each). The results are kind of interesting. First of all, the 1333 strap does not seem to POST at all with them all in there. I lowered the memory mode to 533 (and even turned up the vDIMM and vFSB) with no effect. However, I could run the 1066 strap almost perfectly. It went up to +40 percent with the 667 memory mode, which means the memory still overclocks to almost as high as with two sticks (934 MHz). But I could not POST at +45 percent in the 533 mode (with only two sticks my system is perfectly stable all the up to +50 percent BIOS max. in the 553 mode).

 

So it looks like: (A) it is more difficult for the northbridge to push four one-gigabyte sticks and ( that northbridge does not run as well on the 1333 either. These two conclusions are consistent with what I have read at XtremeSystems (at least in terms of the BadAxe). It will be interesting to see what happens with four 512 MB sticks on this board and also testing the same four one-gigabyte sticks on a BadAxe2. But it may be a few weeks before I get to that.

 

One a related note, OS X appears to have access to the full 4 GB of RAM on my BadAxe (it only has access to about 3 GB on my Intel 945G board due to that chipset's limitation).

[casse]

Finally, some customer reviews on the Bad axe 2 are starting to trickle in on newegg. This one sounds good:

 

"Plugged everything in and it works great. Able to get E6600 to overclock past 4 ghz without a problem, P5W DH wasn't stable over 3.6 ghz. Board is also rock solid stable, Intel did a great job on this board."

 

[Maybe he has a bad P5W DH and a really good E6600? Otherwise the Bad axe 2 sounds too good to be true. Wonder if he's on some exotic cooling.]

 

Another one:

 

"Very nice board (rev 503) and lots of documentation including huge blow up poster showing what connects where."

 

I'll appreciate that poster, I'm sure ...

 

 

@Bofors: Big thanks for sharing all your research and efforts. It's a goldmine! Also want to let you know there's still interest in any experiments you do on different ram sticks and overclocking.

[romey-rome]

I'm thinking about the Axe as well. Looks slick, and i've never had a problem with any intel board. But then again, Intel doesn't usually making over-clocking boards.

 

I wish every board manufacturer would follow Abit & dump the whole Serial / Parallel I/O cluster. Who still uses those?

[bofors]

Mwave.com has refurbished Bad Axes in stock again for $117.45:

 

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/ViewProduct.asp...p;SortMethod=11

 

EDIT: SOLD OUT!

 

This deal was just to good for me to pass up, so I ordered two more (I guess the BadAxe2 will have to wait). Note that despite their claim that it is a "Refurbished Bare Product No Accessories", I received a full retail box with all the BadAxe goodies (and there are quite a few). There still may be question of what revisions the boards are too, as Conroe is only supported by the newer ones. But I received a revision 305 before and all 304 and some 303 work for Conroe.

 

EDIT: In case anyone reading this orders a refurbished BadAxe from Mwave, note that the box it came in said revision 302, but the board itself was marked as a 305 and says so in BIOS too.

 

Mwave also has some refurbished cases (among other deals to check out), so I picked up two more CoolerMaster Certurions for $29 (Right now, NewEgg has new ones for $30 rebate with only $10 shipping).

 

It also possilbe to get an additional $10 bucks off your order from Mwave by manipulating their $10 coupon for survey offer (not BS Reservation Rewards). Basically, they send you an offer to take a survey in email after you place the order in exchange for a $10 coupon (which is only good for a few days). After completing the survery, which takes less than a minute. You then cancel your first order (by sending email to cancel@mwave.com) and then simple refill it using your $10 coupon which automatically shows up on your account when you add $50 of goods.

 

TigerDirect also has XFX 7600GS cards for $70 after rebates: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Se...p;Sku=P450-7868

 

I am very happy with my first XFX 7600GS, so I have ordered more.

 

"Plugged everything in and it works great. Able to get E6600 to overclock past 4 ghz without a problem, P5W DH wasn't stable over 3.6 ghz. Board is also rock solid stable, Intel did a great job on this board."

 

[Maybe he has a bad P5W DH and a really good E6600? Otherwise the Bad axe 2 sounds too good to be true. Wonder if he's on some exotic cooling.]

 

I have read a similiar report a XtremeSystems: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=124131

 

But as I said above, I ordered two more original BadAxes instead (for the same price as a single BadAxe2).

 

I'm thinking about the Axe as well. Looks slick, and i've never had a problem with any intel board.

 

Intel boards also seem to offer two more advantages to OSx86 as well: the best compatibility and EFI.

 

I wish every board manufacturer would follow Abit & dump the whole Serial / Parallel I/O cluster. Who still uses those?

 

It is kind funny that I did actually use a parrallel port to hook up a printer on my Dad's Dell about two years ago. I think he was out of USB ports or something. But you are not going to see any arguments from me. Being a long-time Mac user, I have to laugh at all that junk. They can dump the PS/2 connectors and floppy drives too. I am actually glad to see that Intel seems to be pushing industry to drop IDE by not including it on the ICH8 southbridge (although that certainly is causing some big problems for some people).

[joe75]

As I am finding out with CPU and memory, "bin-ing" (sorting chips by quality) is an important issue to consider when overclocking.

When I asked if the memory was that important you said it wasn't

 

W/out me having to do allot of searching, do you know if Xeon Conroe 3060 has the same chip structure as a E6600 or would it be more geared as a server chip.

I know the focus here is OSx86 but I'm looking at nForce 600i series to be able to get the most from Conroe.

[bofors]

When I asked if the memory was that important you said it wasn't

 

Joe, I believe you asked me if memory quality was as important in overclocking Conroes as it is on AMD. My answer was "no" because I see the northbridge being the "weakest" link here. From what I can tell my Corsair ValueSelect RAM does not limit my overclock speed at all. While I should be able to use more agressive timings with the new stuff I ordered, it appears to be gross overkill (at least for the original BadAxe because the vDIMM only goes up to 2.2V, BadAxe2 might actually be able to use better RAM with its much higher vDIMM limit, 2.8V, and higher quality northbridge).

 

W/out me having to do allot of searching, do you know if Xeon Conroe 3060 has the same chip structure as a E6600 or would it be more geared as a server chip.

 

An Xeon 3060 is an E6600, but they are thought to be from different "bins". It appears that the 3060 is the "top bin" product (it also comes with a better replacement warranty).

 

I know the focus here is OSx86 but I'm looking at nForce 600i series to be able to get the most from Conroe.

 

Chipsets from manufacturers other than Intel seem to have problems with OSx86. While people do manage to get them working, it really is a question of priorities.

[trexplorer]

If you're interested in an economical configuration that overclocks like crazy without any fuss, check this out:

 

HARDWARE

• Asus P5B-Deluxe

• Core 2 DUO 6300 1.83 Ghz Oveclocked to 3.3 GHz 7x471 FSB stable

- that's an 80% overclock which is the fastest I've ever seen on stock/air !!!.

- Could go say ... 10% higher on overclock with more voltage and better cooling, but why bother ...

- Stock intel cooler (quiet and works well ...)

- 1.385 Volts on cpu (i.e., below stock), stock voltage on all other components

- Both cores Work.

• 2 GB generic 667 Mhz RAM

• WD250 SATA Hard Drive

• DVD Drive on IDE / SATA adapter or USB

• GeForce 6600 TDI 128 DVI and VGA out

• Dell FPW2405 24 inch DVI/VGA LCD 1920x1200

• Samsung 915v 17 inch VGA LCD 1280x1080

 

CONFIGURATION

• Manual Install 10.4.8 Apple over 10.4.4 or use JaS 10.4.8 (mifki kernel)

- Install works fine w USB/IDE adapter + DVD drive. IDE mode ok if you disconnect IDE & floppy cables

• Semthex beta7 kernel

• Video Dual mode Working (DVI/VGA adapter + VGA) with natit

• JMicron SATA/PATA works (AppleAHCIPort and AppleVIAATA device ID hack)

• ICH8 SATA works

• Network works Marvel Yukon 88E8001 (Install skge.kext)

• Sound works (AppleAzaliaAudio device ID hack)

• System Sleep does not wake up (video sleep does wake up)

 

I've been overclocking for years (dozen's of pc's, several macs, and 6 hackintoshes) and this is by far the fastest. Open, like, 16 heavy duty apps (aperture, lightroom, p'shop, itunes, safari, etc ...) in 25 seconds; close them and they open in only 4 seconds (i.e., after being cached to memory) !!! XBench 162 ... VERY fast. Paralells runs WinXP faster than any native PC that I've owned. It's not fussy about ram, voltage, or how you configure the BIOS ... Just crank up the FSB from 266 to 471 and reboot !!! Core 2 Duo and overclocking - this thing flies ... Best machine I've ever set up.

 

Now that this works, it's time for a new project ...

 

Cheers ...

[DRKRONNIN]

HARDWARE

• Asus P5B-Deluxe

• Core 2 DUO 6300 1.83 GHz Oveclocked to 3.3 GHz 7x471 FSB stable

- that's an 80% overclock which is the fastest I've ever seen on stock/air !!!.

- Could go say ... 10% higher on overclock with more voltage and better cooling, but why bother ...

- Stock Intel cooler (quiet and works well ...)

- 1.385 Volts on CPU (i.e., below stock), stock voltage on all other components

- Both cores Work.

• 2 GB generic 667 Mhz RAM

• WD250 SATA Hard Drive

• DVD Drive on IDE / SATA adapter or USB

• GeForce 6600 TDI 128 DVI and VGA out

• Dell FPW2405 24 inch DVI/VGA LCD 1920x1200

• Samsung 915v 17 inch VGA LCD 1280x1080

 

Wow thats pretty good How much did this set up run you total? This deal on the bad axe board from Mwave is pretty impressive, Im slowly leaning from the Asus P5W to the "BadAxe". Im still not totally convinced if one is truly "superior" over the other. I went to the link that Bofors posted about the instability of the P5w but found nothing. Is the Asus P5WDH unstable after a certain GHZ? They were just talking about how good the new "BadAxe 2" is I was waiting for the comparison to begin. The only feature that has me looking in the direction of the P5WDH is the wireless remote control (Just seems like it would be fun to use but I wouldn’t pay too much extra for it). I know it doesn’t work with OSX86 but it would be cool to use in XP Pro (I'm Planning on running a Dual boot) Im still in the process of picking parts but I think that I've Narrowed it down . I had a few questions that I would like if you guys could help me with.

 

1. Are Acrylic cases good for overclocking? I was looking at this case (Pure Novelty this is going to be my first build and I think a completely clear case will look slick lol ) I read some where that the lack of metal made it impossible to ground Graphics cards or something I'm not sure about that. Has anyone here had any first hand experience with acrylic cases? The only draw back I've heard to date is that the mother board attached directly to the side panel so if you wanted to add some extra HDD's later you pretty much have to take out the motherboard and graphics cards to mount both sides (you could just mount one side though). Is there any other reason why I shouldn’t

buy this case?

 

2. My second question is about Ram I was looking for ram and its by far one of the most expensive parts in my setup. I read that both the BadAxe and Asus P5w boards use DDR800 Ram is that the only compatible format because its pretty steep from a 2x1GB set. Does anyone have any suggestions for cheap 2x1GB ram thats OC's good?

 

3. Does anyone know where I can read a complete beginners guide to OC'ing a Conroe? I read around about Oc'ing Intel’s but I would like to read something a little more in depth.

 

Right Now my Setup is running me between High 1400's and low 1800's here’s what Im planning on buying feel free to suggest different parts that will increase performance or lower price.

 

Motherboard:

Intel BadAxe or Asus P5w DH (Help me Decide )

Refurbished Badaxe 117.99 (Mwave thanks bofors) P5WDH Refurbished171.99 (Newegg) New 217.99(xpcgear)

 

CPU:

Im unsure if I should get a:

E6300 179.90 (ZipZoomFly) or a E6400 218 (ZipZoomFly) which one OC's better and a better bargain for my money? I dont want to shell out 318 for a E6600...

 

PC Case:

Im debating on these three cases:

Ark 6099S 53.99 ( Newegg Looks like a PowerMac G5 to me lol)

Aspire X-Plorer Steel Case 54.99 (Xpcgear)

Logisys Pre-Assembled Blue UV reactive Acrylic case 64.99 (Xpxgear) Need clarification about Cons of acrylic cases if any

 

 

Cooling:

4x 80mm LED fans (Included with case) I

Scythe SCNJ-1100P 120mm CPU Fan 39.99 (Newegg) or should i save a few bucks and go with the stock intel fan?

 

Ram:

G.Skill 2GB (2x 1GB) DDR 800 234.99 (Newegg)

 

HDD:

2x Western Digital Caviar SE16

 

Graphics Card:

Asus EAX 1950 Pro 199.99 (ZipZoomFly)

 

Firewire Card:

Sabrent IEEE 1394b 33.99 (Unsure if compatiable with OSx86)

 

Im building this comp to run video editing software like Avid Xpress and Final Cut Pro aside from a little PC gaming lol Thanks in advance to anyone who helps me out

[bofors]

3. Does anyone know where I can read a complete beginners guide to OC'ing a Conroe? I read around about Oc'ing Intel’s but I would like to read something a little more in depth.

 

Try looking at some of these: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=115765

 

Note that the original Bad Axe overclocks a little bit differently than the others.

 

This deal on the bad axe board from Mwave is pretty impressive...

Don't expect it to last long. I don't know who many refurbished boards they had in stock, but I already took two. Hopefully, they will basicaly what I got last time, a full box of revision 305 or better.

 

Im slowly leaning from the Asus P5W to the "BadAxe". Im still not totally convinced if one is truly "superior" over the other. I went to the link that Bofors posted about the instability of the P5w but found nothing. Is the Asus P5WDH unstable after a certain GHZ? They were just talking about how good the new "BadAxe 2" is I was waiting for the comparison to begin. The only feature that has me looking in the direction of the P5WDH is the wireless remote control (Just seems like it would be fun to use but I wouldn’t pay too much extra for it). I know it doesn’t work with OSX86 but it would be cool to use in XP Pro (I'm Planning on running a Dual boot)

 

The P5WDH overclocks better than the original Bad Axe. I do not think one of this boards is better than the other either, it just comes down to detering which features you want and the price. I wanted, Intel stability and EFI over better overclockable and a wireless remote. Mwave's BadAxe deal is tough to beat too, and that has been the ultimate factor in my purchasing decisions here.

 

The jury is still out on the BadAxe2 but some reports indicate that it overclocks either Conroe or Kentsfield significantly better that the original.

 

2. My second question is about Ram I was looking for ram and its by far one of the most expensive parts in my setup. I read that both the BadAxe and Asus P5w boards use DDR800 Ram is that the only compatible format because its pretty steep from a 2x1GB set. Does anyone have any suggestions for cheap 2x1GB ram thats OC's good?

 

This is a big misconception, there is no need for DDR2-800. You can buy DDR2-667 or even DDR2-533 and run it at DDR2-800 or higher with no problem and many cases it is actually the same stuff or better than is being sold for more as DDR2-800. Basically what I am talking about is with Elpida ICs and was covered by AnandTech in July: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=17 Of course, RAM prices went ballistic since then, but they have actually started to come back down a little.

 

I started researching the "value" overclocking RAM market last week, but did not get to far because I ran into the Corsair 5400UL thread here and jumped on that instead: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123720

 

This Corsair 5400C4 looks like it might be a good deal for $200 after rebate, but I did not determine what kind of ICs it was using: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820145015

 

There seem to be a lot of potentialy good choices for a little above $200 and some of this PQI Turbo RAM may be worth checking out too (but it seems to fail quite a bit by customer reviews):

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820141199

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820141211

 

I suspect that one could also find some Elipia deals for under $200 too, like perhaps this A-Data Vitesta:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820211061

 

Ram:

G.Skill 2GB (2x 1GB) DDR 800 234.99 (Newegg)

 

That could be a super deal now that it is on sale for $199, but I would still check it out in the XtremeSystems.org forums before buying.

 

CPU:

Im unsure if I should get a:

E6300 179.90 (ZipZoomFly) or a E6400 218 (ZipZoomFly) which one OC's better and a better bargain for my money? I dont want to shell out 318 for a E6600...

 

Fry's has the E6300 for $169.00 shipped: http://shop3.outpost.com/product/4893640, but I would probably reccomend the E6400 as a slightly better overclocking value at about $210 (you just missed Fry's deal on the E6400 for $207 shipped).

 

Scythe SCNJ-1100P 120mm CPU Fan 39.99 (Newegg) or should i save a few bucks and go with the stock intel fan?

 

That is the Ninja, it is a pretty good choice and NewEgg has it for $34.99 right now, which is a really good price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...CMP=OTC-Froogle

 

You should probably get a decent cooler, if you want to save more money consider the Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro at $25 shipped: http://www.directron.com/acfz7pro.html

 

Make sure you at least get a fan to stick on your northbridge too.

 

Graphics Card:

Asus EAX 1950 Pro 199.99 (ZipZoomFly)

 

See if this should work with Natit before buying.

 

Firewire Card:

Sabrent IEEE 1394b 33.99 (Unsure if compatiable with OSx86)

 

I assume you need FireWire 800? I think that most FireWire 400 cards work with OSx86, but you should search the forum and check the Hardware Compability Lists (HCL's) on the Wiki for reports about this card, its controller chip and FireWire 800: http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

 

1. Are Acrylic cases good for overclocking?

 

As long as you have a good cooling plan, you can go with whatever case you like.

[casse]

The jury is still out on the BadAxe2 but some reports indicate that it overclocks either Conroe or Kentsfield significantly better that the original.

One thing I can't figure out despite reading here and there is when it's possible to manually select the multiplier for a cpu. That's the point of the extreme series conroes, isn't it? They let you set pretty much any useful multiplier. But then I'm sure I've read that some motherboards let you do this (within limits, usually only downwards, I think) for non-extreme conroes. The first statement makes me think it's hard-coded into the cpu but the second points in the opposite direction. I'm just confused about this.

 

Anyway, I'm hoping to find out if the Bad axe 2 let's you change multipliers for the E6600, for example. If you get the fsb to 500 MHz on this board (optimistic, probably, but for arguments sake) and you stay on air cooling, you would have to lower the multiplier for that cpu to at least 8, probably 7.

 

Lastly, from an armchair perspective, I'm thinking that combining the Bad axe 2, a xeon-branded conroe cpu, and some really stable ram (likely Micron D9Gxx) could be a good platform for overclocking with retained stability. I hope someone tries this soon and publishes the result. Any thoughts on this?

 

I was looking at this case (Pure Novelty this is going to be my first build and I think a completely clear case will look slick lol )

Duuuuude, that's reeeeeeally un-Mac! But, as we say over here in Sweden, taste is like the ass, i.e. split in two. (It doesn't translate well because it actually rhymes in Swedish.) Good luck with whatever you do! By the way, if cpu speeds are important to you it might be wise to go with the E6400 instead of the E6300 only to get the 8 multiplier instead of 7.

[bofors]

One thing I can't figure out despite reading here and there is when it's possible to manually select the multiplier for a cpu. That's the point of the extreme series conroes, isn't it? They let you set pretty much any useful multiplier. But then I'm sure I've read that some motherboards let you do this (within limits, usually only downwards, I think) for non-extreme conroes. The first statement makes me think it's hard-coded into the cpu but the second points in the opposite direction. I'm just confused about this.

 

I am not sure what you are confused about because it sounds like you understand the situation perfectly. The "extreme" chips have "unlocked" multipliers which I think goes up to 14 and down to 6 or 7 (default is 11). The regular chips have "locked' multipliers but some Asus and Gigabyte motherboards can "unlock" them down (to increase the memory to FSB ratio for more bandwidth at the same CPU clock speed).

 

Yes, locking is hard-coded into the CPU or its package.

 

Anyway, I'm hoping to find out if the Bad axe 2 let's you change multipliers for the E6600, for example. If you get the fsb to 500 MHz on this board (optimistic, probably, but for arguments sake) and you stay on air cooling, you would have to lower the multiplier for that cpu to at least 8, probably 7.

 

The E6600 is "locked", you can not raise the multipilier. I do not believe that the BadAxe2 "unlocks" down either but I could be wrong. I will try to ask SuperTimor at XtremeSystems to find out for sure.

 

EDIT: A BadAxe2 owner at XtremeSystems says no, it does not unlock down.

 

EDIT 2: Apperantly this is just an EIST (SpeedStep) trick anyways, it not does require some special hardware on the motherboard. In Windows, one can do this with Crystal CPUID, so at some point we should consider writing some OS X overclocking tools that do same (likewise, it would be nice to be able adjust the real FSB from OS X by using something the Windows "clockgen" program which apparently just manipulates ACPI: http://www.cpuid.com/clockgen.php ) However, check out SaberSHO's CPUThrottler project: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showforum=75

 

Lastly, from an armchair perspective, I'm thinking that combining the Bad axe 2, a xeon-branded conroe cpu, and some really stable ram (likely Micron D9Gxx) could be a good platform for overclocking with retained stability. I hope someone tries this soon and publishes the result. Any thoughts on this?

 

I am sure this will get done sooner or later. But there are only a few people with BadAxe2's posting. I am hoping Eva2000, who makes very detailed posts about the original BadAxe gets one. I will try to ask him if he plans to.

 

EDIT: Eva2000 says he might, but has not immediate plans to get a BadAxe2.

 

Otherwise, it sounds like the BadAxe2 would be an ideal board for what you want to do if only it unlocked down.

 

Duuuuude, that's reeeeeeally un-Mac!

 

I understand, this thread has some Mac-like cases which one could consider here: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=24145 One can also use an real aluminum PowerMac G5 case with a little effort: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=4525 Some of this was discussed in the first part of this thread too (before I ordered parts and built my first Bad Axe box): http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?sho...6508&st=42#

 

But on the other hand, besides saving money, the beauty of OSx86 is that you get want you (not what Steve Jobs wants).

 

By the way, if cpu speeds are important to you it might be wise to go with the E6400 instead of the E6300 only to get the 8 multiplier instead of 7.

 

Ya, for overclocking spending a little more money for an E6400 makes a lot of sense.

[trexplorer]

HARDWARE

• Asus P5B-Deluxe

• Core 2 DUO 6300 1.83 GHz Oveclocked to 3.3 GHz 7x471 FSB stable

- that's an 80% overclock which is the fastest I've ever seen on stock/air !!!.

- Could go say ... 10% higher on overclock with more voltage and better cooling, but why bother ...

- Stock Intel cooler (quiet and works well ...)

- 1.385 Volts on CPU (i.e., below stock), stock voltage on all other components

- Both cores Work.

• 2 GB generic 667 Mhz RAM

• WD250 SATA Hard Drive

• DVD Drive on IDE / SATA adapter or USB

• GeForce 6600 TDI 128 DVI and VGA out

• Dell FPW2405 24 inch DVI/VGA LCD 1920x1200

• Samsung 915v 17 inch VGA LCD 1280x1080

 

Wow thats pretty good How much did this set up run you total?

 

Cost in US dollars approx. $680 to $700 + tax/shipping:

 

P5B-deluxe $175 or P5B-E $150

C2D 6300 $180

1 GB of 667 Mhz ram $100

NVidia 6600 or similar $80 (Good speed/compatibility w OSX and natit drivers)

WD250 $80

DVD burner $30 + IDE / SATA adapter (eBay) $8 + USB / IDE adapter (eBay) $7 (or just buy an SATA DVD drive)

case & pwr supply $45

 

You could probably do 5-10% better with a little shopping.

 

I had most of the parts lying around and simply bought the motherboard, cpu & ram.

 

The cool thing about this configuration is that it is high performance without the price tag. You could spend a lot more money (double or triple) on say the Asus P5W, better air or even liquid cooling, faster ram (i.e., 800 mhz) and only see another 10-15% in performance (at higher voltages which is not necessarily desirable).

 

As for compatibility, value, board design, stability, BIOS, over-clocking and support/updates, choose ASUS. Many board manufacturers (MSI, Gigabyte, etc..) produce good boards for a period of time or for a certain boards, but none have done as well or consistently over the years as ASUS from my experience. You can look at all the specs you want and find 1-3% diff here and there, but you'll know the difference when things just don't work on some boards (i.e, strange SATA configs, poorly documented manuals, parts too crowded to fit, etc...). At any point in time, there may be better board out there than the Asus P5B, but without testing every one, chances are still better with ASUS. Heck even Apple uses Asus ...

 

The other good thing about the P5B-deluxe is Asus's passive cooling for the Northbridge chipset as well as the built in heat dissipation system on the motherboard. Asus also has a very progressive power management system that reduces heat and conditions power supply for even more stability at high speeds. And they actually work ... Things get warm but never hot and no extra cooling ... well worth the extra $25 over the P5B-E.

 

Check out the more reputable online reviews. You'll find that Asus consistently comes out on or near the top in most reviews. And take a look at the over-clocking database for Conroe on this link ... You'll see Asus, including the P5B, at the top for over-clocking:

 

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1075792

 

Also take note of the performance differences between various Conroe chips. Statistically speaking the 6300 is the best bang for the buck.

 

Choice of cases depends mostly on you. Most will work fine unless you go to extremes. My recommendation on over-clocking is that you can get 90% of the potential from any system without any special effort. You will pay dearly for the last 10% ... so don't bother. Almost any case could be used for the config I've provided. No special cooling or case fans required. Don't think it is necessary to ground the graphic card in your config (you should be grounded thru video cable and PCI slot ...), but to be safe simply run a wire from the video card mount screw to the case of your power supply. Better case suppliers usually include a decent power supply. Enermax makes very good quiet supplies should you want to purchase separately. As a rule, stay away from cheap power supplies that are included with cheap ($25) cases. I have had good luck with all but a few power supplies (shipped with some very cheap cases). Unless I have a noise problem or high power requirement (i.e., video/gamimg config), I get by just fine with the included 300 watt variety that comes with many cases. Again if you're planning to go with big gaming or video, consider a better (perhaps 350 to 450 watt Enermax or similar).

 

You don't have to spend the extra for 800 Mhz ram. 667 Mhz is priced reasonably and will give you good over-clocks. Better boards will allow you to adjust multipliers (and voltage) to accommodate ram speed limitations. In any event you will not see a noticable improvement in performance with most 800 Mhz ram over good 667 MHz chips.

 

Again I would recommend the above link for info and I really wouldn't bother with the Asus P5W at 35% more money. The only caveat to this suggestion is that the P5W will set up easier on OSX than the P5b (i.e., the 975 chipset is better supported than the 965 on OSX, but no big deal making things work if you read thru the forum).

 

I again recommend the E6300 based on price/performance. The E6400 is also good but more money. The E6600 and higher give you more cache (one of the probable reasons that they may not overclock as well percentage wise may be attributable to the larger cache; the other being we've probably reached the natural max for this cpu at around 3.8 Ghz) but not a big deal in terms of overall performance. The higher multipliers on the E6600/6800 and better chips is nice and you could probably hit 3.6 to 3.8 Ghz on air but again not worth it at 2-4 times the cost for a 10-15% improvement in cpu speed. Really, the sweet spot for Conroe is over-clocking the E6300 to 3.3 Ghz or so on air and at stock voltages.

 

On cooling stick with the stock intel fan/sink (it really works very well with some thermal paste) or for another $40 (and a nero zero noise set-up), invest in a Zalman or similar.

 

Video is really up to you. I like NVidia because of the reasonably good support under OSX via Titan / Natit (seems to be better supported than ATI). I also like the Nvidia drivers better on the windows side of things. Nvidia 7900 cards seem to be well supported and are pretty quick. ATI X1600XT (Asus silent is best supported) and X1900 seem fine. I don't do much gamuing (mostly phtos and video so the 6600 is fine for now and well supported).

 

For a hard disk, consider getting a small WD36 Raptor (these spin faster and access data faster) as your main drive. This drive will give you a bigger lift in performance than many of the suggestions you may have read (and for not a lot of money). Use a second say WD250 for storage.

 

Firewire is already built into many higher end boards including the P5B-deluxe so save your money (and yes it works on OSX).

 

Hope this helps ... Cheers.

[bofors]

P5B-E $150

...

DVD burner $30 + IDE / SATA adapter (eBay) $8 + USB / IDE adapter (eBay) $7 (or just buy an SATA DVD drive)

...

The only caveat to this suggestion is that the P5W will set up easier on OSX than the P5b (i.e., the 975 chipset is better supported than the 965 on OSX, but no big deal making things work if you read thru the forum).

I was looking at the P5B-E too and it seemed to be a great mid-range board for overclocking. But I still have some concerns about 965 chipset boards for OS X. The lack of support for the IDE controller seems to still be causing a problem for some people.

 

OS X has been picky about which DVD drives it likes to boot from. I wasted alot of time trying to save $30 by making a Samsung DVD-ROM work. Pioneer DVD burners are the to way to go, they are not expernsive and work perfectly with OS X because that is usually what Apple uses in real Macs.

 

1 GB of 667 Mhz ram $100

 

This is close to the minimum for good OS X performance, 2 GB will yield some benefits (OS X is a notorious RAM hog) but is certainly not necessary either.

 

case & pwr supply $45

...

As a rule, stay away from cheap power supplies that are included with cheap ($25) cases. I have had good luck with all but a few power supplies (shipped with some very cheap cases). Unless I have a noise problem or high power requirement (i.e., video/gamimg config), I get by just fine with the included 300 watt variety that comes with many cases. Again if you're planning to go with big gaming or video, consider a better (perhaps 350 to 450 watt Enermax or similar).

 

This is pushing it. While I have been able spend about $45 on case and PSU, it is because I am getting a decent PSU for free after rebate: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=30232 For "big" gaming, I would certainly reccomend that someone go with a PSU a lot closer to 500 W than 350 W.

 

EDIT: Semthex just had some apparently cheap PSU die and it took his motherboard and CPU with it: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=34025

 

Heck even Apple uses Asus ...

 

This is a little misleading, while Asus might be contracted to manufacture Apple's boards, they are designed by Intel. Moreover, Apple actually develops Mac EFI firmware on Intel boards. Going with an Intel ensures you get the highest level of OSx86 compatability and stability.

 

The higher multipliers on the E6600/6800 and better chips is nice and you could probably hit 3.6 to 3.8 Ghz on air but again not worth it at 2-4 times the cost for a 10-15% improvement in cpu speed.

 

I was thinking this way when I ordered by E6300, but I look at it differently now. The E6400 gives 14% (= 8/7 - 1) better multiplier performance than the E6300 for about 5% more total system cost.

 

... the other being we've probably reached the natural max for this cpu at around 3.8 Ghz...

 

The E6400 seems to get pretty close to this limit, while the E6300 certainly does not in most cases.

 

I like NVidia because of the reasonably good support under OSX via Titan / Natit (seems to be better supported than ATI).

 

Nvidia clearly appears to be way to go for OSx86 now.

 

For a hard disk, consider getting a small WD36 Raptor (these spin faster and access data faster) as your main drive. This drive will give you a bigger lift in performance than many of the suggestions you may have read (and for not a lot of money). Use a second say WD250 for storage.

 

I have two 36 GB Raptors for sale BTW (and a 74 GB Raptor). I have found that RAID, which is now easy to setup in 10.4.8, gives a major improvement in disk speed. The problem is that you cannot boot off it yet, I hope that changes with Leopard (10.5).

[trexplorer]

 

1) Agree that the P5B is fussy re PATA, hence the P5W may be a better choice for those wanting a lower fuss solution (albiet at a higher price). Seems to be pretty good pricing on this board State side and it is top of the line, so if you've got the money, go for it ...

 

2) I've never had any problems w DVD drives/burners including NEC, Pioneer, Samsung and others ... Check the wiki and I think you'll find most brands do well. Most are competively priced so buy a Pioneer or NEC (my personal fav) if in doubt. Perhaps the DVD Bofors is using was an exception ...?

 

3) Agreed that 1 GB of RAM is a minimum especially if running Paralells or heavy video/graphic apps.

 

4) The case mentioned earlier in this post http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16811128010 at $53 has a Cogden PSU which has performed well for me in most configs. I also have a couple of Enermax psu's that cost me about $40 that were primarily chosen for low noise/heat operation in a HTPC. Again psu choice will be dictated by your video card and gaming ambitions (and noise sensitivity which I do care about).

 

5) Not to "mislead", Apple does use Asus to manufacture for example some of it's laptops. Design is another issue ... Many Brands supply specs for outsourcing hardware assembly/fabrication to 3rd parties and Apple is no exception. The fact that Apple chose Asus for this purpose is a testimony to Asus's quality reputation. Nothing more was intended nor necessary by this statement.

 

On stability it is true that Intel spec'd mb's should do better and the Asus P5W, P5B, Gigabyte GA-965 are intel chipped boards. The fact that Asus assembled rather than Intel may or not make a diffirence provided the manufacturer sticks to the specs. Sometimes they don't (i.e., Sapphire / ATI or MSI / ATI, etc... which often perform diffirently even while using same chipsets). Given Asus's quality I've generally found that they stick to the specs (i.e., ATI chipped X1600 silent) while offerring performance other manufactures may not provide. Intel with the exception of perhaps the Bad Ass board (which I don't know much about at this time other than to probably stay away from the Bd Axe 1 - not a great overclocker; Bad Axe 2 seems to be better on a quick read) does not usually do overclocking or offer a lot of extra features ... In the end there is a choice bet compatibility / price /performance. I've found the P5B is good and suggest the P5W may be better (for a little more money) because of 975 chipset compatibility. Your choice.

 

6) Agree that the E6400 gives you more performance for a linear cost increase, hence good value if you want to spend a little more. Again prices on the E6400 seem a little better State side.

 

7) Good drive performance is often overlooked in the excitement of getting faster processors. If the drive is bottlenecking the system (which is often the case), then a good raid array or fast HD will make a bigger diffirence in real world performance than another 20% in cpu perfomance. I haven't paid much attention to RAID in past mostly because most boards I had only supported in software and not all modes. I think the P5B is hardware raid and Bofors suggests that RAID works in OSX so I might give it a whirl.

 

Cheers ...

[DRKRONNIN]

Thanx Guys for all your help!!!!! Im now researched good cooling for the North Bridge like Bofors suggested, Im looking at the Zalman ZM-NBF47 and the Thermalright HR-05-SLI. I went over the XS (Btw thanks a lot for the link Bofors they have a plethora of information for both the Asus P5W and the Badaxe) Im starting to understand OC'ing a little better now. Im hoping to get my E6400 to at least 3.4 which doesnt seem too difficult. I would go with just the onboard firewire support but as Bofors assumed I need/want a Firewire 800 port. I, hoping its compatiable with OSx86 the hardware is said to be PC and Mac compatiable (According to Newegg).

[Alessandro17]

Mwave.com has refurbished Bad Axes in stock again for $117.45:

 

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/ViewProduct.asp...p;SortMethod=11

 

This deal was just to good for me to pass up, so I ordered two more (I guess the BadAxe2 will have to wait). Note that despite their claim that it is a "Refurbished Bare Product No Accessories", I received a full retail box with all the BadAxe goodies (and there are quite a few). There still may be question of what revisions the boards are too, as Conroe is only supported by the newer ones. But I received a revision 305 before and all 304 and some 303 work for Conroe.

 

You lucky people

They don't ship overseas and in Europe we must pay more than twice.

[bofors]

The fact that Asus assembled rather than Intel...

 

Actually, Intel doesn't manufacture its own boards either, they contract out to Foxconn.

[bofors]

Im looking at the Zalman ZM-NBF47 and the Thermalright HR-05-SLI.

 

The Zalman ZM-NBF47 is nice and performs well, but I am looking for something I can stick a fan on. The Thermalright HR-05 was apparently best (and reasonably priced):

 

http://www.aoaforums.com/frontpage/content/view/1376/25/1/6/

 

Until now:

 

EDIT: Maybe not: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpo...mp;postcount=39

 

 

http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=product...id=7&lng=en

 

Noctua has released the NC-U6 chipset cooler. As you can see, this has a pure copper base and 4 (2 x 2) heat pipes (the price is reasonable too, ~$23). At the moment, it seems that the only place in North America to get one is here: http://www.us.ncix.com/products/index.php?...mp;membership=0 But I have contacted some American Noctua dealers and asked them to order this.

[joe75]

I can honestly say Noctua makes very nice coolers and are of the best quality around.

A nice feature is the choice of using two fans if needed but keep in mind that these are big coolers for a north bridge and sometimes space restriction can be a concern

[bofors]

... keep in mind that these are big coolers for a north bridge and sometimes space restriction can be a concern

 

According to my measurements, there will be about 2 cm between the video card and the NC-U6's fins. So using a 10mm or 15mm thick fan should work (but not the standard 25mm). But I could always move the video card on the Bad Axe (which has three 16x PCIe slots).

 

I would probably rather have the fan on the other side of the NC-U6 though, sucking the Big Typhoon's exhaust and blowing it through the NC-U6 toward the video card, but it is going to be a tight fit (although it looks like I can slide the Big Typhoon to make space). I ordered an 80mm x 15mm fan to test with already, but am waiting to see if some American dealer picks up the NC-U6 this week.

 

NCIX prices generally look a little high, they wanted $20 to ship one from Vancover and do not accept American credit cards (PayPal only).

[joe75]

Most chipset fans are 10mm and don't push allot of air, when you step upto 15 or 20 you can notice a big increase. I use the Jing Ting Forcetake and have one 50x20mm high output fan sucking air from the front intake fan and pushing back onto my video card.

One thing about Noctua is the fins are cut/spaced for a specific size fan, its no problem using a larger fan, you just need to find a way of keeping it on. An 80x15mm fan is plenty considering you could use it passive.

A local store to me (FrozenCPU) is planing on getting in the NC-U6, I don't know if it will be next week but I will be getting one when they come in.

 

http://www.frozencpu.com/

[bofors]

Most chipset fans are 10mm and don't push allot of air, when you step upto 15 or 20 you can notice a big increase.

 

This is why I put a 38mm fan on my Big Typhoon.

 

A local store to me (FrozenCPU) is planing on getting in the NC-U6...

 

Their prices look high, I might end up ordering from the Canadians (since I want to order three, the flat $20 shipping fee is not so bad).

[bofors]

Mwave.com has refurbished Bad Axes in stock again for $117.45:

 

SOLD OUT!