Psystar counter-sues Apple for anti-competitive business practices

[slacker25]

The Ipods Did well cause there was already very growing market for mp3 players and devices of the like

 

I personally think the current prices are fair and i do think the mid range mac mini or mac pro type mid tower idea would be great cause im not tool that believes things suck just cause i cant afford them

and jobs will most likly do something like th9is in the future and people think they dont see what products they are asking for .. they do they just dont always see the right oppertunity to market something as such but with more growth you will see stuff like that mid range system pop up and price drops as well the more market they take

[InteliMac Pro]

Yeah that would be a great compromise, especially since it could be based off of OS X, but if memory severs me right then I think Apple and MS have an 'agreement' or 'understanding' that Apple will not compete in this area.

 

This is an interesting idea, but it'll never happen in a million years without Apple hiring a ton of new developers. They've been struggling lately as it is trying to develop OS X (last one was delayed), the iPhone OS (latest was buggy and now promised features are delayed), as well as the premature MobileMe rollout (which has potential once it's matured and the bugs squashed).

 

 

First you need to learn some Apple history. Many companies have tried similar things but have failed, why? Because there is a lot more involved than just selling their software for PC use. In case you didn't know, dell sells a lot of computers. They are crappy computers to be sure, but at their low price point they sell a lot of them. Dell begged Apple to let them sell an Apple clone, but Apple said no. Why? Because it would end up hurting Apple more then helping Apple. Bottom line, if psystar wins it will ruin Apple, and the court will NOT allow that. Read and learn:

 

If Psystar wins it won't effect Apple one way or the other. They just won't be able to police US. Apple doesn't have to support anything it doesn't make or sanction. How many consumers do you honestly think are going to buy a product from a company like Psystar, or have even heard of it? My guess is their customers don't amount to a drop the bucket that is the Mac/PC user base. It's just hackers and computer savvy consumers who know what they're doing enough to trouble shoot their own problems that might be interested.

 

@jaes ... why does the companies history change .. it does not they can change the name of it from apple computers to apple inc its still apple and history does show many ways they will handle such things like this

 

Ok so it is a small fan base .. but it will become large fan base and lets see you think there is what likea trillion virus' for windows cause the crators of those virus just love winbloze

 

maybe its bettter to start a revoltion in inovation and keep em coming and loving the stuff they make so that they dont hate it and start this trent of lets see if we can break it more

 

You're right that a name change doesn't change the company's history, but along with the name change occured because Apple became more diversified. In the future they may diversify more buy releasing OS X for generic (compatible) hardware. Nobody knows but the Steve.

 

 

I tottally agree with you for the last part... If they did such a computer, it would simply kick ass...

 

Totally agree. That WOULD kick ass, but only if it had upgradeable components like the Cube did.

 

 

Wow, that's some pretty strong KoolAid you're drinking there, partner. This board needs a "Self-Confessed 110% Fanboy" forum to segregate the KoolAod drinkers from those of us outside the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field. Some of the nonsense you're spewing is incredible. Straight out of the Apple marketing department.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you can't deny that the Steve's been pretty balls on with Apple's direction so far. After all, he did bring them back from a near certain demise. We may not like the pricing or be completely satisfied with the lineup, but his track record speaks for itself.

[Maxintosh]

Wow, that's some pretty strong KoolAid you're drinking there, partner.

Looks like you're the only one drinking kool-aid, and not through a straw. Read 'em and weep

 

Jobs has always aspired to position Apple and its products at the forefront of the information technology industry by foreseeing and setting trends, at least in terms of innovation and style. He summed up that self-concept at the end of his keynote speech at the Macworld Conference and Expo in January 2007 by quoting ice hockey legend Wayne Gretzky:

 

“There's an old Wayne Gretzky quote that I love. 'I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.' And we've always tried to do that at Apple. Since the very very beginning. And we always will." —Steve Jobs link

 

This is an interesting idea, but it'll never happen in a million years without Apple hiring a ton of new developers.

I agree, plus if they spread themselves too thin it will end up just hurting the company. As far as a mid sized desktop, it would be great if it was expandable. It seems that Apple goes to extremes, with the mini on one end, and the Mac Pro on the other. I know laptops are doing well for them but that's NO reason for them to ignore the desktop segment. Everyone who bought a Mac mini years ago have no place to grow. No one is going to buy a new mini these days because it hasn't been updated in such a long time. They really need to address this.

[slacker25]

QUOTE(InteliMac Pro @ Sep 12 2008, 01:16 PM) *

This is an interesting idea, but it'll never happen in a million years without Apple hiring a ton of new developers.

 

while yes if it was a complete re write this would be hard

 

But Why when DarwinBSD already existed it was from apple and it was basicly OSX with out aqua and carbon

 

so they DEV a different GUI and maybe if they are nice an api and sdk for it and release it in place to keep the ubuntu freaks at peace

[apreichner]

yep i guess apple themselves ...

 

Steve wrong business to hook up osx "just for mac labeled machine" is stupid enough

 

Now whether I disagree or agree with the psystar area, I'll discuss that in a second. I think after reading this comment... I just about hit the floor laughing. I'm not sure if I understand the comment correctly, but I think he was saying it was a bad business move for Apple to limit who can use their operating system.

 

Besides the fancy good looks, Apple is just a bunch of guys who put together computers with specially modified hardware with TPMs and a tricked out EFI motherboard, but overall, it is still just a PC at the heart. I think the biggest wrong people see about Apple, is that they are a hardware manufacturer. In a way, I guess they kind of are, but name one revolutionary never-before seen piece of hardware apple has released. You can't do it, because everything has been done before. What makes Apple so revolutionary, whether it be the iPhone or the Mac, is its software, its operating system.

So now that we have that down. Apple has to find a way to sell their non-revolutionary hardware at a bigger price tag. The best and easiest way to do this is to say, "We can run Windows (or Linux) and OS X, but you can only run Windows. How many people do you think would buy macs if every guy could buy a PC for half as much and put OS X on it. So it is a smart business move for Apple. Also... what does Apple become after they grow dependent on 3rd party driver developers to keep their operating system looking good. Probably somewhere close to Windows is now. The biggest complaints about Windows Vista now are speed issues and lack of drivers, not so much crashing. This can largely be blamed on a bunch of hardware manufacturers who weren't quick enough to release drivers. OS X would no longer be seen as the crash proof OS because then they would grow dependent on hardware manufacturers. Leopards supported hardware list is far shorter than Vistas. So that would basically mean Apple would have to remove 98 percent of their Mac vs. PC ads, because they would be just like them. It gives Apple a much better image to go on its own and have everything work perfect with the few hardware configurations they offer.

[alezen]

Could be that Apple compete unfairly against HP and Dell?

In fact allows you to install Windows and Linux on its machines, but not to install MacOSX in their competitions.

 

Or should allow you to use MacOSX on HP/Dell computer or renounce to let install Windows on Apple hardware...

 

Just to give an idea

 

In my country the main telephone company (once state, then privatized) remained proprietary of cables, and is accused of unfair competition against competitors who must apply for the rental of cables. They would that the old company were split into two, one that offers only telephone service, and another which operates with physical cables.

 

(Sorry for my google english)

[Maxintosh]

Now whether I disagree or agree with the psystar area, I'll discuss that in a second. I think after reading this comment... I just about hit the floor laughing. I'm not sure if I understand the comment correctly, but I think he was saying it was a bad business move for Apple to limit who can use their operating system.

 

Besides the fancy good looks, Apple is just a bunch of guys who put together computers with specially modified hardware with TPMs and a tricked out EFI motherboard, but overall, it is still just a PC at the heart. I think the biggest wrong people see about Apple, is that they are a hardware manufacturer. In a way, I guess they kind of are, but name one revolutionary never-before seen piece of hardware apple has released. You can't do it, because everything has been done before. What makes Apple so revolutionary, whether it be the iPhone or the Mac, is its software, its operating system.

So now that we have that down. Apple has to find a way to sell their non-revolutionary hardware at a bigger price tag. The best and easiest way to do this is to say, "We can run Windows (or Linux) and OS X, but you can only run Windows. How many people do you think would buy macs if every guy could buy a PC for half as much and put OS X on it. So it is a smart business move for Apple. Also... what does Apple become after they grow dependent on 3rd party driver developers to keep their operating system looking good. Probably somewhere close to Windows is now. The biggest complaints about Windows Vista now are speed issues and lack of drivers, not so much crashing. This can largely be blamed on a bunch of hardware manufacturers who weren't quick enough to release drivers. OS X would no longer be seen as the crash proof OS because then they would grow dependent on hardware manufacturers. Leopards supported hardware list is far shorter than Vistas. So that would basically mean Apple would have to remove 98 percent of their Mac vs. PC ads, because they would be just like them. It gives Apple a much better image to go on its own and have everything work perfect with the few hardware configurations they offer.

Well thought out and worded apreichner

 

As I said before, the courts will not allow Apple to lose because it would hurt the company. Many reasons for this. See above for some of them. There might be some sort of unique compromise, but Psystar will not win outright.

[slacker25]

@alezen..... not anti competitive when Apple is the only ones that are in the OSX market anti competitive would be if M$ only allowed windows on dell and apple but not HP when the market is that open for a product then it can be but with windows every product has the same fair right with windows and apple wants to keep OSX closed and its their right and not anti competitive.

 

now if say MS came up with new not Windows OS and kept it to a machine they made it would be the same thing and they would have the rights too provided they didnt jack someone elses codee which i think they would thats what Microsuckers do

 

 

... thought i was gonna have final say on this thread there for a while

[apreichner]

I don't think there will be a compromise... I think it'll be all on Apple. Apple does not have a monopoly because there are many alternatives to OS X that can do everything OS X can. I personally think Psystar will lose out right. I wouldn't mind having a hackintosh that runs as well as they claim that theirs does, but I think it would be a lot more fun to build it. I think what makes the OSx86 community so great is that we have to work to accomplish things. To make things work and to create drivers and other things. All of the fun might just fade away if we could all just buy a hackintosh or a version of OS X that works on PCs. That's my opinion on it anyways.

[TomTom1]

Wow, it's page 20th already! Mostly arguments! Does anyone know where is the related news update? I'd rather wait and see the result than reading the arguments.

[Captiosus]

i really see no price premium ... tired of feeling like people telling everyone this bull to make it seem like come on jump on the hate mac/apple revolution or something

 

No price premium? Put down the Apple branded Kool-Aid for a second.

Let's compare a couple systems, shall we?

I've bolded the items in each list which are superior to the competitor.

 

Gateway® P-7811 FX Edition

Processor: Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor P8400 (2.26GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 3MB L2 cache)

Memory: 4GB (4096MB) DDR2 800MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 x 2048MB modules)

Hard Drive: 200GB 7200rpm Serial ATA hard drive w/ 16MB Cache

Video: NVIDIA® GeForce® 9800M GTS with 512MB of GDDR3 discrete video memory

Display: 17.0" WUXGA Ultrabright TFT Active Matrix (1920 x 1200 max. resolution)

Optical Drive: 8x Multi-Format Dual Layer DVDRW with DVD-RAM featuring Labelflash Technology

Web Camera: Integrated 1.3 Megapixel Web Cam

Audio: High-Definition Audio- 2 Channel, Built-In speakers, microphone, headphone/SPDIF Audio Out

Digital Media Manager: 5-in-1 Digital Media Manager (Memory Stick™ (MS), Memory Stick™ Pro, Multi Media Card™ (MMC), Secure Digital™ (SD), xD-Picture Card)

External Ports: (3) USB 2.0, VGA Connector, V1.2 HDMI Connector, IEEE 1394 Firewire Port, e-SATA and Kensington Lock Slot

Integrated Network: 10/100/1000 Mbps Ethernet LAN (RJ-45 port)

Integrated WiFi: Intel Pro Wireless A/B/G/N

Operating System: Genuine Microsoft® Windows Vista® Home Premium SP1

Price: $1399.99

 

Now let's compare that to the 17" MacBook Pro, shall we?

 

MacBook Pro (Apple Store)

Processor: Intel Core2Duo 2.5GHz 6MB Shared L2 Cache

Memory: 2GB DDR2 667MHz Memory (2 x 1024MB modules)

Hard Drive: 250GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive

Video: NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 512MB GDDR3

Display: 17.0" WUXGA TFT Active Matrix (1680x1050 max resolution)

Integrated Web Camera: Built in iSight camera

Optical Drive: 8x double-layer SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

Audio: Combined optical digital/audio out, combined optical digital/audio line in, microphone, speakers

Integrated Ethernet: 10/100/1000BASE-T (Gigabit)

Wifi: Built-in AirPort Extreme (802.11n), Built-in Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR

External Ports: Three USB 2.0 ports, one FireWire 400 port, one FireWire 800 port, one ExpressCard/34 slot

Operating System: Mac OS X Leopard 10.5

Price: 2799.00

 

These are out of the box prices and stock, non customized, builds.

 

The Gateway laptop, with exception to the processor (which is only .24GHz slower) and the Operating System, beats the absolute {censored} out of the comparable MacBook Pro. The Gateway system has double the memory out of the box (not to mention faster memory), a faster hard drive (I'll sacrifice 50 gigs for faster access, thanks), more multimedia options (multi-card reader), a 1080p native display, and a more recent, and superior, video solution.

 

So you're paying $1399.01 more for a system that is overall inferior to the Gateway.

 

By the way, if you customize the MacBook Pro to give it a native 1080p display and 4GB of RAM (still only PC2 667MHz, however), it brings the total to 3099.00, making it a 1699.01 difference just to get the same level of specs as the Gateway out of the box.

 

Ask yourself: Is $1399.01-$1699.01 a reasonable price difference for a .24Ghz faster processor, OS X and a nifty Apple logo? Because that's all you're getting for almost double, or more than double, the price of the Gateway.

 

If you answered 'yes', you may resume drinking your kool-aid.

[mifki]

captiosus, you seem to forget this part about gateway

 

Dimensions (System) 1.3"-1.70" (H) x 15.75" (W) x 11.75" (D) or 33-43mm (H) x 400mm (W) x 298mm (D)

 

who the hell wants a laptop that is almost 2" thick? seriously, you need a mini chernobyl to power that thing.

[zmanjr]

however pystar will say that apple did in fact at one time offer os and partners that built clones. so apple had done it and should do it again.

[slacker25]

@Captiosus here is more fair comparison to the MBP

only about 150$ lower but it still has no where near the quality and features of the mac

 

 

 

http://h71016.www7.hp.com/MiddleFrame.asp?...p;SBLID=S_ADMIN

[Maxintosh]

you're paying $1399.01 more for a system that is overall inferior to the Gateway.

Nice try but your so-called 'comparison' is woefully inadequate. Next time try to do a thorough comparison instead of a postulate comparison. In study after study when comparable Macs/PC's were compared, they found that owning the PC cost more - a LOT more.

 

If you like the frosting on your PC, and you can deal with the sub-par windows OS, then by all means enjoy it. Just don't post misinformation again. The community thanks you.

[slacker25]

hmm in light of Maxintosh saying that the pc was way more expinsive

 

Here is this compairison

 

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/con...ge_2900_3_tower

 

that came to 20k$

 

the mac pro ... with same number of hard disks but they was 500 gigs instead of 250 gigs just came to over 6k$

[Tristanlogd]

hmm in light of Maxintosh saying that the pc was way more expinsive

 

Here is this compairison

 

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/con...ge_2900_3_tower

 

that came to 20k$

 

the mac pro ... with same number of hard disks but they was 500 gigs instead of 250 gigs just came to over 6k$

 

Uh, the link you sent has a total of $2,813 not 20k (Unless I am missing something, just going by the link you have there). So a mac pro is over 6k? So a 4k difference for a bit more space? And that's worth it? Well ok...If you say so...

[Maxintosh]

You are not looking at the total price of the computer. It should look something like this;

 

Initial cost of new computer + operating costs + upgrading costs divided by the number of years of ownership - resale value. You are just looking at the initial cost of the computer. Hardly a valid or fair diagnosis of the real cost of the computer. Plus you are not including other things in the analisis that only the person who owns the computer can determine, like the quality of the computing experience. Tell you what, you keep your kit PC, and I'll keep my Mac, and we'll both be happy

[slacker25]

And So the hard drive and and the rest of the = to a mac pro configs did not stay in the link ... but you just keep running you POS and thinking its as good as a mac at only thw 300$ price tag everyone believe a myth at one time or another

[bwhsh8r]

I find it ridiculous that if I buy Windows Vista, I can't use it on my PowerPC computers!

I find it ridiculous that if I buy electronics in the US, I can't use the same power adapter in the UK!

I find it ridiculous that if I buy a PS3 game, I can't use it on my Wii!

 

Getting my message yet?

 

yeah, that you have no idea what your talking about

 

theres a big difference from a physical difference or a total code difference, such as ppc vs x86, and us vs uk power supplies

 

but apples hardware is different in a way in which it would not be able to run on a regular pc provided it was unlocked how?

 

its not....

 

its just pc stuff.... i cant buy a vista box with a g5 ppc chip.... but i can buy a mac with a intel chip.... i can also buy a pc with an intel chip.

 

theres a big difference between what you said as examples and what this is.... all your examples have completely different architectures or physical differences.... mac only has a different case... and efi.

 

i dont really know which side im going to take on this case.... because i can see where both sides are coming from in this battle, but id probably put my money on apple coming out on top

[frankline11]

Over the course of many sleepless nights, I?ve come to the realize that the schedule required by such a program won?t allow me to devote the time required to see InsanelyMac grow into the future.

===================

frankline

Job Opportunities

 

There is a tool in the /Library/Application Support/VMware Fusion/ that creates the vmk file (a text file containing the geometry of the disk and size of the partition)

Right now I'm in the Powerbook, also out of town, when I get back I see the name of the tool and post it.

===============

james

Job Opportunities

[moxlon69]

Lets See .. Apple a Company thats in this to make money as all coorprate america is so i cant blame them for doing this and i dont see antitrust bieng on something that is your product as a whole... meaning the software is thiers ... and before anyone points out open source stuff they used.. not all the OS is open source and they did have thier own openDarwin or darwinBSD or something of that sort at one point and time ... and released other stuff to open source so they have given thier changes back and i thikn thats all the GPL only requires that ... so there for the OS as it is .. is thiers and the hard ware is thier property just like any DELL is a dell trade mark ... they have a right to do that they will with it... and Apple is what made OSX great if thier OS is forced open that will hurt thier sales and stop thier funding doe OSX ... oh but this is what you want for OSX to disapear

if you like OSX support them some how and if they decide to lock it to thier hard ware thats thier right ...... if some one wants to try and tell them different it doesnt matter who in this case they could do the simplest of things and get outta the OS and hardware biz all together and make money some other ways .... cause thats what they are there to do companies make money nto please the masses.

ive not heard enough people complain that Vista is {censored} and can only install on pc with 3 + gigs of ram ... dont even wanna think of it running on 512mb like it states it requres

oh and you have to take out another loan on your home to buy a copy of it that has as many features as OSX

ive got nothing against OSx86 as a hobby and i dont really think apple could care much about it they dont wanna see it happening... but what developer does

But i own real mac's too and paid for ever copy of OSX semce like 10.2

 

but why are people whinning about apples biz practice ... when M$ is really so much worse ... ahh i i get it no one want winbloze no more so we get to act like children saying this should be this way just cause i want it now.

 

what apple couldl do is say we are producing no more OSX distrobutions and we will up date the OS through DRM for a charge and if you want your OWN OS that you can isntall on anything then go make your own...

 

 

I'll complain. Vista *IS* {censored}. But yes, it installs just fine on 512 megs of ram, I wouldn't personally run it on less than 2 gigs of ram, but it does run reasonably well on 1 gig of ram. But that's basing it off of how 'well' you would say vista runs even on a good high end machine.

 

I'm not trying to start an argument with anyone, and I try to respect everybody's opinion. I agree that Apple has the right to their intellectual property, and, in the end, their money. All businesses (and most people) are out to make a profit, in some way or another.

 

The whole argument right now is going to come down to the fact that the apple hardware, having migrated to the same 'base' as standard PC hardware, then why should they have the right to block the consumer from actually purchasing and using the software on other hardware. If you use the car analogy, it would be like a GM dealership telling you that you cannot install the 3.1 liter V6 from the Monte Carlo in your Pontiac Grand Am, even though the motors are the same thing. Yes, some of the hardware for the Apple x86 machines is specially built, but in the end, it's just PC hardware. While Apple's current EULA dictates that you legally require their hardware to use their software, there are some regions where this EULA would be viewed as illegal in the eyes of the courts. At the same time, the courts will not make a ruling on the legality of a EULA unless a situation like this arises.

 

I for one would have to side with Apple on the argument of legality, as the situation currently sits, but, I do hope that the courts find the EULA invalid at least on some level. Who knows, in a perfect world, perhaps Apple would lower the price on their hardware to make the hardware a bit more affordable to those of us who could only purchase a cheap budget PC.. Perhaps they might even open up the EULA to allow the software to run on other hardware, with some sort of "use at your own risk, no technical support" deal.

 

I don't think I've ever called a software company for support, so this issue wouldn't even matter to me.

 

 

My two cents anyway, you can go ahead and chop my head off now

 

Peace

[jaez]

I for one would have to side with Apple on the argument of legality, as the situation currently sits,

...

My two cents anyway, you can go ahead and chop my head off now

 

Peace

 

I disagree. My view is that if you buy software, or any product for that matter, you can use it, or you can toss it out.

 

If you decide to use it, you can do anything with it that makes that software productive for you. Because you paid hard earned cash for it. Whatever gets it to work the way you want is fine.

 

You can tweak it, shape it, bend it, twist it, convert it, re-configure it, simplify it, enhance it, cripple it, un-cripple it, repair it, crash it, upgrade it, downgrade it, run it on a machine with less RAM than recommended, run it on a machine with an unsupported graphics card, or just run it on a machine with completely different specs from the design intention.

 

I don't expect the software developer "to support it" on my deviant choices of use.

 

But, as long as that software is "usable" to me, and I am the only one that can determine what that means, the developer has no right to try to stop me from useing the tool I paid for.

 

The only right I will grant the developer is the right to keep me from re-selling my modification to the public, while claiming that it's the developer's software, or an enhanced version of it.

 

The developer has the right to decide who can sell his software, because I only bought "a license" to the software.

 

I can buy a car and modify it, and re-sell that enhanced car, because I own all rights to the car. But, software is different.

 

That's the difference between "a license" and "an outright purchase."

 

It's about "resale."

 

 

Here is another example.

 

Pioneer makes these great DVD Drives. Some of the most reliable drives in the world.

 

But in North America they sell a crippled version of their DVD-Writer Drives. These drives can Read DVD-RAM discs, but can't "WRITE" to them. These drives can't write to the printable surface of the discs, even though the drive is technologically capable of doing so. An example, is the Pioneer DVR-215D DVD-Writer.

 

In Europe, they sell another less crippled version, e.g. the Pioneer DVR-215 DVD-Writer. These drives can write to the DVD-RAM discs, as well as read. But, they still can't write to the printable surface of the discs.

 

 

In Japan, they sell the un-crippled version. e.g. the Pioneer DVR-S15J. These drives can write DVD-RAM, and these drives can also write to the printable surface of discs using the "LABELFLASH" technology.

 

The only real difference between the three versions of this Pioneer: DVR-215D, DVR-215, DVR-S15J, is microcode firmware loaded into the eprom of the drive.

 

The Japan DVR-S16J has some additional external cosmetic differences, but its the same hardware under the skin.

 

Pioneer also sells it's drives that get "re-branded" by other resellers, so the drive may exist in other forms also.

 

But, in North America, if you buy the Pioneer drive, you get DVR-215D, that can't write to DVD-RAM and doesn't have Labelflash enabled.

 

All the user needs to do, however, is to download the corresponding firmware from the internet, and upload it to his north american drive, and he can convert the DVR-215D into the European or Japanese version of this drive and so un-cripple the drive.

 

So, consumers build their own Pioneer DVD-215D@215 or DVD-215D@S15J to enable the features they want, just like the upgrade CPUs with overclocking like Q6600@3.6GHz, etc..

 

If the north american consumer tried to "import" the drive from Japan instead, it would cost an arm, a leg, and a kidney.

 

So, it makes sense to buy the cheaper DVR-215D and convert it into a DVR-215D@S15J .

 

Pioneer is probably not so happy. Since the DVR-S16J is quite expensive.

 

But, hey, they don't even "offer to sell" that version in North America, or Europe, so you can't buy it locally.

 

The manufacturer decides "what he wants to sell, where he wants to sell it, and to whome" , well the consumer also decides "what he wants to buy, where he wants to buy it, and how he wants to use it".

 

Pioneer is like Apple, building things for the market with "a fantasy" about what people should be doing with that product.

 

The consumer has his own ideas. It's his money. So the consumer has the right to modify the Pioneer to write to DVD-RAM and print on discs, just like he has the right to modify the Apple OSX to run on his PC.

 

See?

 

[Maxintosh]

I disagree. My view is that if you buy software, or any product for that matter, you can use it, or you can toss it out.

Yes, no one is forcing you to use it. Not using it does not go against the EULA.

 

If you decide to use it, you can do anything with it that makes that software productive for you.

Ahh... don't you just love it when people 'justify' how they use software. See above. No one is forcing you to use the software, HOWEVER, if you do decide to use it, it must be WITHIN the EULA that you agreed to when you installed it.

 

Because you paid hard earned cash for it.

No one forced you to buy it. You knew well ahead of time what the EULA was before you purchased it. The act of 'buying it' does NOT give you the right to use the software illegally, if it did, there'd be no reason for the EULA. DOH!!!

 

Whatever gets it to work the way you want is fine.

See above.

[NoSmokingBandit]

Im going to try and look at this from a completely subjective standpoint:

 

The issue at hand is whether or not Apple is engaging in Anti-Competitive practices. The definition of 'anti-competitive' from wikipedia (yes, we all know wiki isnt 100% accurate, but seeing as none of us are lawyers (that i know of) wiki will suffice) that is relevant in this situation is:

Tying, where products that aren't naturally related must be purchased together. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-competitive_practices)

 

There are two parts in a modern computer: 1) Hardware 2) OS/Software

 

Every hardware and software manufacturer/developer sells these two products separately. I can go pick up a copy of Leopard/Vista/XP/Ubuntu/FreeBSD/Opensuse/Solaris and have that disc all to myself. I can go buy a laptop/desktop from any manufacturer i so choose and have them ship it with a blank HDD (i assume i could do this if i asked nice enough, i've never actually done it before. it may be worth finding out just for kicks). So it could be said that the OS and Hardware of any system are two completely different entities, existing in completeness all alone by themselves.

 

Now, lets say i go pick up a copy of Vista X64. The criteria i have to meet, hardware-wise, is that the hardware has a certain pre-determined level of power and the processor supports 64bit code. I have the ability to buy from a number of worthy vendors.

 

Now, i go pick up a copy of leopard. The criteria i have to meet with this OS is that the hardware has a certain pre-determined level of power, the cpu supports either PPC/x86/x64 instructions, and the computer is made by Apple.

 

This is where the anti-competitive practices come into play. In order to use vista, all i have to buy from MS is vista. Thats all the money i have to send to Microsoft. In order to run Leopard i have to buy both leopard and the apple brand computer. Thus, two separate entities are being tied together in a way that inhibits competition. This act is illegal in these untied states we live in.

 

 

Now for my opinion:

It doesnt matter what happens. As we've all seen these past few days the government cares more about making big corporations happy than the civilians that feed those large corporations. Even if apple is, by definition, anti-competitive the government will bail them out.

 

 

This is all my personal interpretation, of course.