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Gateways EFI models with Windows XP... how did THEY do it?


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#41
Dee S. 73

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I believe that I've downloaded everything the TianoCore folks have to offer

:blink: :graduated: :graduated: :pope:
Well... looks like u obviously didnt.....ever tried to look deeply in the efi1_10_14_62 and EDK packages ?:whistle:
Attached u can find the legacyboot.efi file that "dont exist !" according to you.... :dev:
Dont make wrong statements based on your poor search capabilities......."FACTS" are a different thing from "thoughts" !! :hysterical:
DS

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#42
Seeyou

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Hi. Just wanted to add some of my experience on PC Bios... There is always a way to reflash a bios if the flashing went wrong and the machine won't even accept a bios flash floppy disk.

All you need is:

1. A testing pc, on which you do your bios experimentation (PC1)
2. A second pc, using the same EPROM type of chip (it may or may not contain the same bios!) (PC2)

You use pc to experiment on flashing firmwares. if something goes wrong and your pc won't even boot, you use PC2 to reflash your bios: you boot up windows on PC2, remove the bios chip while windows is running, insert the bios chip of PC1, run the flashing utility and flash the Bios file of PC1. Then you shut down PC2, swap the chips again and.. voila! it works!

The bios chip is used by a computer ONLY when you turn it on and before booting the operating system. This means you can remove a computer's bios chip while the conputer has finished booting windows. there is no problem removing the chip while it runs, i've done it at least 20 times in the past, every pc was recovered (100% success)!

It is a very easy thing to do if the bios chip is easy to remove, eg if it isn't soldered on the mainboard. If it is, you need to desolder the chip and add a socket to the mainboards so that the chips can easily be removed and placed back on again.

You can use the same method to extract the EFI bios from an APPLE MAC. Removing the bios chip from a mac and placing it on a PC mainboard while this is running windows, then extract the firmware from the mac bios chip should also work.

I've been experimenting with PC bios flashing in the past. I was working in a PC store and lots of customers were tweaking their pc and often ruined their bios. This method DOES work.

Hope I helped out a bit!

#43
mk14

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No, it does not. Go look at the images I linked above. Does that look like a "standard Intel motherboard" to you?

Yes, it does. Talk to pretty much anyone in this forum, and they will tell you the same. Apple does not have any custom hardware in their Intel-iMac.

Do Intel-based Macs use special proprietary Intel processors and/or chipsets?

No:
Intel has indicated to MacFixIt that upcoming Macs based on the company's chipsets will not be proprietary. In other words, the processors and associated components used by Apple will be the same Intel products available to other PC manufacturers, not products designed specifically for Apple.


Please verify that what you post is true and communicate non-facts so that it does not sound like you take it for a fact and want to crush other facts with it (use e.g. I believe that..., I am pretty sure that...).

I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to this type of stuff, but i suppose i could back up the EFI partition to something. It couldn't be that big, most BIOS were only a couple of MB, right? I didn't even know EFI ran off of a "partition" if that gives you much of a concept of how much I know.

Would anyone know how to do a ROM dump for an EFI system? (I could handle BIOS, but I would imagine EFI is different). I can't even seem to find a shell in the EFI configuration. Wasn't that supposed to one of the bigger advantages? What would be the best way to do this?

It probably is better to make an image of the EFI partition. Actually, EFI doesn't run from that partition, it uses it for storing other modules.
I don't think dumping EFI-ROM is much different from dumping BIOS-ROM. Try it using a traditional BIOS ROM-dump program. I couldn't find any specific EFI-ROM-dump programs.
How to enter the EFI shell is described at http://nak.journalsp...407&entryid=407

#44
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I think we can pretty much seal this... The Gateway is almost 120% incompatible with the Mac........

#45
mk14

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I think we can pretty much seal this... The Gateway is almost 120% incompatible with the Mac........

You're probably right about that.
If the Gateway used a Intel 945 motherboard and an ATI graphics card, there might have been a slight chance. Is there any EFI-based computer with a configuration similar to the iMac out there?

So, I guess this killed our last idea to get Windows XP working. No way to re-integrate the CSM; no way to flash another computer's firmware (with CSM included) onto the iMac; and replacing NTLDR on XP with Vista's bootloader doesn't work because Windows makes some BIOS calls during operation, ....
Anybody have some more ideas or do we have to wait for Vista to include full EFI, GPT and UGA support (and let WinxpOnMac's $10,000 go to charity)?

#46
PeteUD

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Yes, it does. Talk to pretty much anyone in this forum, and they will tell you the same. Apple does not have any custom hardware in their Intel-iMac.
Please verify that what you post is true and communicate non-facts so that it does not sound like you take it for a fact and want to crush other facts with it (use e.g. I believe that..., I am pretty sure that...).

This quote is from ArsTechnica's (I trust 'em) in-depth look into the iMac Core Duo:
"Rumor has it that the iMac Core Duo uses a custom chipset designed by Intel. From looking at pictures of the chips, we were able to do some deduction from the chip numbers. The northbridge chip looks to be an 82945GM, which identifies it as the Mobile Intel 945GM Express chipset. According to the S-Spec number (SL8Z2), it's a standard Intel chipset and therefore not an Apple-specific variant. The southbridge appears to be an ICH7-M, which has support for a Trusted Computing module."

Also, would modifying the EFI make make it unable to boot Mac OS X?

#47
mk14

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Also, would modifying the EFI make make it unable to boot Mac OS X?

Not necessarily. It depends how Mac OS X checks whether it is allowed to boot on the respective system. It may be doing so by checking for the TPM's serial number, checking the computer's serial number, or the EFI's version number (though this seems least likely as it could be changed).

#48
crazymonkeypants

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Well... looks like u obviously didnt.....ever tried to look deeply in the efi1_10_14_62 and EDK packages ?


:D

You're right; I completely bypassed the portion of the EDK that contains these, and in fact the SCT project has a bunch of binaries in it as well. My apologies for getting worked up over the wrong issue.

Attached u can find the legacyboot.efi file that "dont exist !" according to you....


It would have helped if you'd supplied the location rather than the file, but that's no matter.

Unfortunately, the file in question is not a driver or a module, it's a vanilla EFI application that invokes the LegacyBoot protocol (you can infer this from reading the Unicode strings in the data segment).

#49
crazymonkeypants

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Yes, it does. Talk to pretty much anyone in this forum, and they will tell you the same. Apple does not have any custom hardware in their Intel-iMac.


In the context of platform firmware, "using standard Intel chips" does not mean the same thing as "using a standard Intel motherboard".

#50
DeathChill

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I don't know for sure that this is so, but I believe TianoCore's EFI package has a legacyboot.efi file.

If someone has access to one of those Gateway PCs: could you please extract all EFI modules and post a list of them?
Could you please post a list of these EFI modules in the forum?

I don't have the list handy, unfortunately. There's a lot of stuff for console initialization and all that jazz.

#51
smartin53

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Yea I personally messed with the TianoCore EFI files. There is a working Shell and EFIs but the legacyboot EFI is looking for a BIOS module which isn't included so it errors out saying it can't find one. The compiled binaries for x86 are under Other>Maintained>Application>Shell>Bin>ia32 in the extracted archive.

#52
mk14

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the legacyboot EFI is looking for a BIOS module which isn't included so it errors out saying it can't find one.

Ah, so CSM is an EFI module (which could possibly be loaded in the iMac's EFI) and not compiled directly into EFI?

#53
lofiunico

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I'm not that knowledgable, but I wouldn't say its 120% uncompatible. It doesn't, however, run on a 945 chipset (they weren't even out when this was produced, i don't think). I'm not completely sure, but I think it runs an 848p intel chipset. the onboard stuff uses the 82801EB. I think the 848 is pretty similar to an 865 series. The video card is an integrated Raedon 9200. I'll attach a text document from "System Information" if anyone wants to look for it for any other clues, but I guess a bunch of people have kind of given up on this.

Attached Files



#54
dmdimon

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...legacyboot EFI is looking for a BIOS module which isn't included so it errors out saying it can't find one...

Almost for sure it's just a binary image of BIOS. Looking at strings inside "legacyboot EFI" can't you identify some details on that file - e.g. name, size, location? Actually it isn't a problem to save an image of BIOS from 945 chipset and lay it into appropriate place with appropriate name.
Actually I just looked inside legacyboot.efi. Looks like you misinterpreted error message - I can find only this: LegacyBoot: Too few arguments
LegacyBoot: Too many arguments
legacyboot: Can not find the LegacyBios protocol.
legacyboot: Can not locate the BBS table.
Call the Legacy Bios Protocol with %s

So, what EXACTLY it errors out?

#55
BlueTrance

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I can find only this:


Should it have appeared something after that sentence? :D

#56
dmdimon

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Should it have appeared something after that sentence? :D


Yes, it should, but that strings was copied from LegacyBoot itself with too much strange invisible symbols :D

And from here: http://www.tianocore.org/acronyms.htm
BBS: BIOS Boot Specification

#57
munky

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so what we're saying here is that you could possibly dump a 945 BIOS to a file, copy it to the EFI partition, and call legacyboot.efi supplying the BIOS image file as an argument?

has anyone tried it?? :withstupid:

#58
dmdimon

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so what we're saying here is that you could possibly dump a 945 BIOS to a file, copy it to the EFI partition, and call legacyboot.efi supplying the BIOS image file as an argument?


Yes.

#59
munky

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lol... ok, good answer.

now anyone care to answer my second question? the one, i hoped would be obvious, was the more relevant?

#60
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nope, no one has tried it, and no, it won't work ;)





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